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Another random thought: OK State to the ACC
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Post: #41
RE: Another random thought: OK State to the ACC
(07-06-2021 04:30 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  The more time passes, the more I lean towards Cincinnati over WVU.

Me too. I don’t know whether the demographic change is in play but seems like WVU’s stock is gradually falling. On the other hand, Cincinnati may become next Louisville.
07-06-2021 06:30 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Another random thought: OK State to the ACC
(07-06-2021 06:26 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Pardon me but I’ve waited nearly a decade to post this.

Regardless of what The Dude says… “West Virginia simply doesn’t move the needle”…. 03-lmfao

Give me Cincinnati….

Maybe WVU can grab the Bearcats spot in The American…

As long as Virginia Tech and Pitt are in the ACC you have reach into the West Virginia market. And if you only land 500,000 viewers out of 1.8 million what have you missed? Their Gross Total revenue for 2019-20 was 92.8 million. That's about 13 million less than the ACC average GTR per school. Since WVU starts with media revenue that exceeds that of the ACC this sub average revenue total is all the more alarming. The issue remains however does Cincinnati add enough value to cover their cost of admission and add revenue. They didn't in the B12.
07-06-2021 06:42 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Another random thought: OK State to the ACC
(07-06-2021 06:42 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 06:26 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Pardon me but I’ve waited nearly a decade to post this.

Regardless of what The Dude says… “West Virginia simply doesn’t move the needle”…. 03-lmfao

Give me Cincinnati….

Maybe WVU can grab the Bearcats spot in The American…

As long as Virginia Tech and Pitt are in the ACC you have reach into the West Virginia market. And if you only land 500,000 viewers out of 1.8 million what have you missed? Their Gross Total revenue for 2019-20 was 92.8 million. That's about 13 million less than the ACC average GTR per school. Since WVU starts with media revenue that exceeds that of the ACC this sub average revenue total is all the more alarming. The issue remains however does Cincinnati add enough value to cover their cost of admission and add revenue. They didn't in the B12.

The cost to join and keep UC in the ACC is somewhat lower than the cost of WVU. That said, if it was a no-brainer it would have happened already. I'd call it a marginal add - might boost payouts a few dollars thanks to ACCN carriage in Ohio and reopening the TV contract - but that's about it.
07-06-2021 07:36 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Another random thought: OK State to the ACC
(07-06-2021 07:36 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 06:42 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 06:26 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Pardon me but I’ve waited nearly a decade to post this.

Regardless of what The Dude says… “West Virginia simply doesn’t move the needle”…. 03-lmfao

Give me Cincinnati….

Maybe WVU can grab the Bearcats spot in The American…

As long as Virginia Tech and Pitt are in the ACC you have reach into the West Virginia market. And if you only land 500,000 viewers out of 1.8 million what have you missed? Their Gross Total revenue for 2019-20 was 92.8 million. That's about 13 million less than the ACC average GTR per school. Since WVU starts with media revenue that exceeds that of the ACC this sub average revenue total is all the more alarming. The issue remains however does Cincinnati add enough value to cover their cost of admission and add revenue. They didn't in the B12.

The cost to join and keep UC in the ACC is somewhat lower than the cost of WVU. That said, if it was a no-brainer it would have happened already. I'd call it a marginal add - might boost payouts a few dollars thanks to ACCN carriage in Ohio and reopening the TV contract - but that's about it.
SEC and ACC fans need to get ready for the death of carriage fees. The wing flaps of vultures settling in the trees around the conference networks can already be heard. The future will be in competitive play between recognized brands with ad money going out to conferences for lesser matchups based on actual viewers in a stream.

The ACC needs to add high content value schools or at least strong regional brands.
07-06-2021 07:42 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Another random thought: OK State to the ACC
(07-06-2021 07:42 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 07:36 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 06:42 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 06:26 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Pardon me but I’ve waited nearly a decade to post this.

Regardless of what The Dude says… “West Virginia simply doesn’t move the needle”…. 03-lmfao

Give me Cincinnati….

Maybe WVU can grab the Bearcats spot in The American…

As long as Virginia Tech and Pitt are in the ACC you have reach into the West Virginia market. And if you only land 500,000 viewers out of 1.8 million what have you missed? Their Gross Total revenue for 2019-20 was 92.8 million. That's about 13 million less than the ACC average GTR per school. Since WVU starts with media revenue that exceeds that of the ACC this sub average revenue total is all the more alarming. The issue remains however does Cincinnati add enough value to cover their cost of admission and add revenue. They didn't in the B12.

The cost to join and keep UC in the ACC is somewhat lower than the cost of WVU. That said, if it was a no-brainer it would have happened already. I'd call it a marginal add - might boost payouts a few dollars thanks to ACCN carriage in Ohio and reopening the TV contract - but that's about it.
SEC and ACC fans need to get ready for the death of carriage fees. The wing flaps of vultures settling in the trees around the conference networks can already be heard. The future will be in competitive play between recognized brands with ad money going out to conferences for lesser matchups based on actual viewers in a stream.

The ACC needs to add high content value schools or at least strong regional brands.

Agreed. My point was that Cincinnati is basically a revenue-neutral option, but not a revenue-enhancer.
07-06-2021 07:57 PM
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TroyTBoy Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Another random thought: OK State to the ACC
(07-06-2021 07:57 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 07:42 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 07:36 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 06:42 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 06:26 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Pardon me but I’ve waited nearly a decade to post this.

Regardless of what The Dude says… “West Virginia simply doesn’t move the needle”…. 03-lmfao

Give me Cincinnati….

Maybe WVU can grab the Bearcats spot in The American…

As long as Virginia Tech and Pitt are in the ACC you have reach into the West Virginia market. And if you only land 500,000 viewers out of 1.8 million what have you missed? Their Gross Total revenue for 2019-20 was 92.8 million. That's about 13 million less than the ACC average GTR per school. Since WVU starts with media revenue that exceeds that of the ACC this sub average revenue total is all the more alarming. The issue remains however does Cincinnati add enough value to cover their cost of admission and add revenue. They didn't in the B12.

The cost to join and keep UC in the ACC is somewhat lower than the cost of WVU. That said, if it was a no-brainer it would have happened already. I'd call it a marginal add - might boost payouts a few dollars thanks to ACCN carriage in Ohio and reopening the TV contract - but that's about it.
SEC and ACC fans need to get ready for the death of carriage fees. The wing flaps of vultures settling in the trees around the conference networks can already be heard. The future will be in competitive play between recognized brands with ad money going out to conferences for lesser matchups based on actual viewers in a stream.

The ACC needs to add high content value schools or at least strong regional brands.

Agreed. My point was that Cincinnati is basically a revenue-neutral option, but not a revenue-enhancer.

Outside of the "tent pole" programs, everyone is essentially revenue-neutral from year to year depending on success.
07-07-2021 05:03 PM
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Hallcity Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Another random thought: OK State to the ACC
(07-06-2021 07:42 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 07:36 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 06:42 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 06:26 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Pardon me but I’ve waited nearly a decade to post this.

Regardless of what The Dude says… “West Virginia simply doesn’t move the needle”…. 03-lmfao

Give me Cincinnati….

Maybe WVU can grab the Bearcats spot in The American…

As long as Virginia Tech and Pitt are in the ACC you have reach into the West Virginia market. And if you only land 500,000 viewers out of 1.8 million what have you missed? Their Gross Total revenue for 2019-20 was 92.8 million. That's about 13 million less than the ACC average GTR per school. Since WVU starts with media revenue that exceeds that of the ACC this sub average revenue total is all the more alarming. The issue remains however does Cincinnati add enough value to cover their cost of admission and add revenue. They didn't in the B12.

The cost to join and keep UC in the ACC is somewhat lower than the cost of WVU. That said, if it was a no-brainer it would have happened already. I'd call it a marginal add - might boost payouts a few dollars thanks to ACCN carriage in Ohio and reopening the TV contract - but that's about it.
SEC and ACC fans need to get ready for the death of carriage fees. The wing flaps of vultures settling in the trees around the conference networks can already be heard. The future will be in competitive play between recognized brands with ad money going out to conferences for lesser matchups based on actual viewers in a stream.

The ACC needs to add high content value schools or at least strong regional brands.

Why? Why, are carriage fees dying? Are people losing their interest in live sports? You can’t say crap like this as if it’s self-evident. Traditional cable may be slowly dying but people will still pay one way or another to watch the ACC network.
07-07-2021 06:58 PM
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Post: #48
RE: Another random thought: OK State to the ACC
(07-07-2021 06:58 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 07:42 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 07:36 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 06:42 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 06:26 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Pardon me but I’ve waited nearly a decade to post this.

Regardless of what The Dude says… “West Virginia simply doesn’t move the needle”…. 03-lmfao

Give me Cincinnati….

Maybe WVU can grab the Bearcats spot in The American…

As long as Virginia Tech and Pitt are in the ACC you have reach into the West Virginia market. And if you only land 500,000 viewers out of 1.8 million what have you missed? Their Gross Total revenue for 2019-20 was 92.8 million. That's about 13 million less than the ACC average GTR per school. Since WVU starts with media revenue that exceeds that of the ACC this sub average revenue total is all the more alarming. The issue remains however does Cincinnati add enough value to cover their cost of admission and add revenue. They didn't in the B12.

The cost to join and keep UC in the ACC is somewhat lower than the cost of WVU. That said, if it was a no-brainer it would have happened already. I'd call it a marginal add - might boost payouts a few dollars thanks to ACCN carriage in Ohio and reopening the TV contract - but that's about it.
SEC and ACC fans need to get ready for the death of carriage fees. The wing flaps of vultures settling in the trees around the conference networks can already be heard. The future will be in competitive play between recognized brands with ad money going out to conferences for lesser matchups based on actual viewers in a stream.

The ACC needs to add high content value schools or at least strong regional brands.

Why? Why, are carriage fees dying? Are people losing their interest in live sports? You can’t say crap like this as if it’s self-evident. Traditional cable may be slowly dying but people will still pay one way or another to watch the ACC network.

They're not dying, they're going to be reduced because there won't be as many non-sports fans subsidizing the viewing habits of sport watchers. The SECN and ACCN will always be packaged with Disney and the ESPN channels, so they will always be receiving fees from cable companies and streaming services that have the Disney bundle but there will be people that don't want what Disney has to sell and will buy other more paired down streaming services.

Also, the number of people that watch sports regularly are dropping off because the baby boomers are dying off and not as many Millennials and Gen Zers watch sports.

Disney will be making less money for their sports properties but that won't effect conferences with long term contracts for 15-20 years.
07-07-2021 07:41 PM
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Hallcity Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Another random thought: OK State to the ACC
(07-07-2021 07:41 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  
(07-07-2021 06:58 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 07:42 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 07:36 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 06:42 PM)JRsec Wrote:  As long as Virginia Tech and Pitt are in the ACC you have reach into the West Virginia market. And if you only land 500,000 viewers out of 1.8 million what have you missed? Their Gross Total revenue for 2019-20 was 92.8 million. That's about 13 million less than the ACC average GTR per school. Since WVU starts with media revenue that exceeds that of the ACC this sub average revenue total is all the more alarming. The issue remains however does Cincinnati add enough value to cover their cost of admission and add revenue. They didn't in the B12.

The cost to join and keep UC in the ACC is somewhat lower than the cost of WVU. That said, if it was a no-brainer it would have happened already. I'd call it a marginal add - might boost payouts a few dollars thanks to ACCN carriage in Ohio and reopening the TV contract - but that's about it.
SEC and ACC fans need to get ready for the death of carriage fees. The wing flaps of vultures settling in the trees around the conference networks can already be heard. The future will be in competitive play between recognized brands with ad money going out to conferences for lesser matchups based on actual viewers in a stream.

The ACC needs to add high content value schools or at least strong regional brands.

Why? Why, are carriage fees dying? Are people losing their interest in live sports? You can’t say crap like this as if it’s self-evident. Traditional cable may be slowly dying but people will still pay one way or another to watch the ACC network.

They're not dying, they're going to be reduced because there won't be as many non-sports fans subsidizing the viewing habits of sport watchers. The SECN and ACCN will always be packaged with Disney and the ESPN channels, so they will always be receiving fees from cable companies and streaming services that have the Disney bundle but there will be people that don't want what Disney has to sell and will buy other more paired down streaming services.

Also, the number of people that watch sports regularly are dropping off because the baby boomers are dying off and not as many Millennials and Gen Zers watch sports.

Disney will be making less money for their sports properties but that won't effect conferences with long term contracts for 15-20 years.

Again, you confidently make predictions about the future based solely upon nothing more than your own conjecture. Disney will make every effort to tie the ACCN to its other streams because they can and because they have the economic incentive to do so. Do you really think Disney will lose its market power?

Do you really think Comcast can stand up to Disney this fall? Watch Comcast knuckle under and accept the ACCN because they have no choice. That’s not changing anytime soon.
07-07-2021 08:00 PM
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Post: #50
RE: Another random thought: OK State to the ACC
(07-07-2021 08:00 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  
(07-07-2021 07:41 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  
(07-07-2021 06:58 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 07:42 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 07:36 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  The cost to join and keep UC in the ACC is somewhat lower than the cost of WVU. That said, if it was a no-brainer it would have happened already. I'd call it a marginal add - might boost payouts a few dollars thanks to ACCN carriage in Ohio and reopening the TV contract - but that's about it.
SEC and ACC fans need to get ready for the death of carriage fees. The wing flaps of vultures settling in the trees around the conference networks can already be heard. The future will be in competitive play between recognized brands with ad money going out to conferences for lesser matchups based on actual viewers in a stream.

The ACC needs to add high content value schools or at least strong regional brands.

Why? Why, are carriage fees dying? Are people losing their interest in live sports? You can’t say crap like this as if it’s self-evident. Traditional cable may be slowly dying but people will still pay one way or another to watch the ACC network.

They're not dying, they're going to be reduced because there won't be as many non-sports fans subsidizing the viewing habits of sport watchers. The SECN and ACCN will always be packaged with Disney and the ESPN channels, so they will always be receiving fees from cable companies and streaming services that have the Disney bundle but there will be people that don't want what Disney has to sell and will buy other more paired down streaming services.

Also, the number of people that watch sports regularly are dropping off because the baby boomers are dying off and not as many Millennials and Gen Zers watch sports.

Disney will be making less money for their sports properties but that won't effect conferences with long term contracts for 15-20 years.

Again, you confidently make predictions about the future based solely upon nothing more than your own conjecture. Disney will make every effort to tie the ACCN to its other streams because they can and because they have the economic incentive to do so. Do you really think Disney will lose its market power?

Do you really think Comcast can stand up to Disney this fall? Watch Comcast knuckle under and accept the ACCN because they have no choice. That’s not changing anytime soon.

Do you really think the same number of people will be subscribing to the Disney bundle when they are uncoupled from cable? Logic says No. Other people that have researched it say No. If you say Yes, that's fine it's a free country.
(This post was last modified: 07-07-2021 08:25 PM by ChrisLords.)
07-07-2021 08:19 PM
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Post: #51
RE: Another random thought: OK State to the ACC
(07-07-2021 08:00 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  
(07-07-2021 07:41 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  
(07-07-2021 06:58 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 07:42 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 07:36 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  The cost to join and keep UC in the ACC is somewhat lower than the cost of WVU. That said, if it was a no-brainer it would have happened already. I'd call it a marginal add - might boost payouts a few dollars thanks to ACCN carriage in Ohio and reopening the TV contract - but that's about it.
SEC and ACC fans need to get ready for the death of carriage fees. The wing flaps of vultures settling in the trees around the conference networks can already be heard. The future will be in competitive play between recognized brands with ad money going out to conferences for lesser matchups based on actual viewers in a stream.

The ACC needs to add high content value schools or at least strong regional brands.

Why? Why, are carriage fees dying? Are people losing their interest in live sports? You can’t say crap like this as if it’s self-evident. Traditional cable may be slowly dying but people will still pay one way or another to watch the ACC network.

They're not dying, they're going to be reduced because there won't be as many non-sports fans subsidizing the viewing habits of sport watchers. The SECN and ACCN will always be packaged with Disney and the ESPN channels, so they will always be receiving fees from cable companies and streaming services that have the Disney bundle but there will be people that don't want what Disney has to sell and will buy other more paired down streaming services.

Also, the number of people that watch sports regularly are dropping off because the baby boomers are dying off and not as many Millennials and Gen Zers watch sports.

Disney will be making less money for their sports properties but that won't effect conferences with long term contracts for 15-20 years.

Again, you confidently make predictions about the future based solely upon nothing more than your own conjecture. Disney will make every effort to tie the ACCN to its other streams because they can and because they have the economic incentive to do so. Do you really think Disney will lose its market power?

Do you really think Comcast can stand up to Disney this fall? Watch Comcast knuckle under and accept the ACCN because they have no choice. That’s not changing anytime soon.

The SECN's first year was a partial and SEC schools netted 3 million each for 5 months worth of subscriptions. In its first full year it made over 7 million for each school. Year 3 it peaked between 9 to 10 million. Then in 2015 it started down a tad, in 2016 down about 24% with cord cutting. That was the year, or possibly 2017, that SNL Kagan reported that the BTN lost 25% of its total value due to cord cutting. By the 2018 season's numbers being released and escalators in contracts set as constants it was apparent the SECN's value had dropped another 2 million because the SEC payouts were virtually stagnant.

When the proposed ACCN did not launch ESPN paid each ACC school 2 million for not having a network.

I would say that the SECN is likely worth around 5 million a year now. ESPN+ has been launched because the value of televising T3 material (think South Carolina vs Citadel) has little draw even on the SECN which gets the worst games same as the ACCN will get after the pump up games of year 1, which the SECN also had.

Then there are advertisers who are tired of paying ad rates for the SECN based on subscriptions when only a fraction of those tune in for USC/Citadel or Auburn/Chattanooga and I can't blame them. The advertisers will pay by the viewer. ESPN's conference networks' non sports programming (Finebaum) are likely to become available on ESPN+ in the not too distant future. If conference networks are to survive they'll need much better games and I just don't see ESPN sacrificing solid T2 material to prop up conference networks. Those will continue to air on ESPNU and ESPN2 where good ratings earn more than a game on the SECN and ACCN.

So it's not an opinion out of thin air and without backing, but rather an observation based on the declining popularity and profitability of conference networks and the understandable suspicion that a for profit corporation (ESPN) has pressed for more conference games out of a desire for more prosperous games now that the market footprint pay model is already dead for T1 and T2 chosen games and the profitability of conference networks based on a bygone pay model which ESPN shares in equally is fading. At least on ESPN+ the games and programs stand on there own merit and the network trims its losses.

Now if conferences want to save them then they need exclusive games on them that people want to see.

What's more is Boomers (who watch and attend in high percentages) have begun a die out that will render them statistically insignificant by 2036. Xer's are strong with college sports but the two trailing generations are not, and their levels of participation in grade school years is low.

Hence the push for content only games which can draw a national or very strong regional interest. The push for an upper tier which has been in talk since the early 70's now has impetus. Make it exclusive, reward the players, and restrict by upper tier the number of schools involved nationwide to a manageable number (56-64) and you still have enough talent funneled into it to keep it viable for a thinning number of enthusiasts.

With NIL and Stipends everything will be about money and our schools and conferences will knuckle under for national exposure and increased enrollment which is now being used to subsidize declining grant revenue due to a massive national debt and to avoid being too reliant upon corporate grants which frequently have strings attached.

There will be massive changes in higher education as the paradigm shift to a Boomer-less world occurs (less private donations and less ticket demand).

And the proposed playoff expansion for triple the payout is mere soft-soaping for the transition to a leaner more profitable college football upper tier, at least for those who can afford to participate.
07-07-2021 08:59 PM
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random asian guy Online
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Post: #52
RE: Another random thought: OK State to the ACC
(07-07-2021 08:59 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-07-2021 08:00 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  
(07-07-2021 07:41 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  
(07-07-2021 06:58 PM)Hallcity Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 07:42 PM)JRsec Wrote:  SEC and ACC fans need to get ready for the death of carriage fees. The wing flaps of vultures settling in the trees around the conference networks can already be heard. The future will be in competitive play between recognized brands with ad money going out to conferences for lesser matchups based on actual viewers in a stream.

The ACC needs to add high content value schools or at least strong regional brands.

Why? Why, are carriage fees dying? Are people losing their interest in live sports? You can’t say crap like this as if it’s self-evident. Traditional cable may be slowly dying but people will still pay one way or another to watch the ACC network.

They're not dying, they're going to be reduced because there won't be as many non-sports fans subsidizing the viewing habits of sport watchers. The SECN and ACCN will always be packaged with Disney and the ESPN channels, so they will always be receiving fees from cable companies and streaming services that have the Disney bundle but there will be people that don't want what Disney has to sell and will buy other more paired down streaming services.

Also, the number of people that watch sports regularly are dropping off because the baby boomers are dying off and not as many Millennials and Gen Zers watch sports.

Disney will be making less money for their sports properties but that won't effect conferences with long term contracts for 15-20 years.

Again, you confidently make predictions about the future based solely upon nothing more than your own conjecture. Disney will make every effort to tie the ACCN to its other streams because they can and because they have the economic incentive to do so. Do you really think Disney will lose its market power?

Do you really think Comcast can stand up to Disney this fall? Watch Comcast knuckle under and accept the ACCN because they have no choice. That’s not changing anytime soon.

The SECN's first year was a partial and SEC schools netted 3 million each for 5 months worth of subscriptions. In its first full year it made over 7 million for each school. Year 3 it peaked between 9 to 10 million. Then in 2015 it started down a tad, in 2016 down about 24% with cord cutting. That was the year, or possibly 2017, that SNL Kagan reported that the BTN lost 25% of its total value due to cord cutting. By the 2018 season's numbers being released and escalators in contracts set as constants it was apparent the SECN's value had dropped another 2 million because the SEC payouts were virtually stagnant.

When the proposed ACCN did not launch ESPN paid each ACC school 2 million for not having a network.

I would say that the SECN is likely worth around 5 million a year now. ESPN+ has been launched because the value of televising T3 material (think South Carolina vs Citadel) has little draw even on the SECN which gets the worst games same as the ACCN will get after the pump up games of year 1, which the SECN also had.

Then there are advertisers who are tired of paying ad rates for the SECN based on subscriptions when only a fraction of those tune in for USC/Citadel or Auburn/Chattanooga and I can't blame them. The advertisers will pay by the viewer. ESPN's conference networks' non sports programming (Finebaum) are likely to become available on ESPN+ in the not too distant future. If conference networks are to survive they'll need much better games and I just don't see ESPN sacrificing solid T2 material to prop up conference networks. Those will continue to air on ESPNU and ESPN2 where good ratings earn more than a game on the SECN and ACCN.

So it's not an opinion out of thin air and without backing, but rather an observation based on the declining popularity and profitability of conference networks and the understandable suspicion that a for profit corporation (ESPN) has pressed for more conference games out of a desire for more prosperous games now that the market footprint pay model is already dead for T1 and T2 chosen games and the profitability of conference networks based on a bygone pay model which ESPN shares in equally is fading. At least on ESPN+ the games and programs stand on there own merit and the network trims its losses.

Now if conferences want to save them then they need exclusive games on them that people want to see.

What's more is Boomers (who watch and attend in high percentages) have begun a die out that will render them statistically insignificant by 2036. Xer's are strong with college sports but the two trailing generations are not, and their levels of participation in grade school years is low.

Hence the push for content only games which can draw a national or very strong regional interest. The push for an upper tier which has been in talk since the early 70's now has impetus. Make it exclusive, reward the players, and restrict by upper tier the number of schools involved nationwide to a manageable number (56-64) and you still have enough talent funneled into it to keep it viable for a thinning number of enthusiasts.

With NIL and Stipends everything will be about money and our schools and conferences will knuckle under for national exposure and increased enrollment which is now being used to subsidize declining grant revenue due to a massive national debt and to avoid being too reliant upon corporate grants which frequently have strings attached.

There will be massive changes in higher education as the paradigm shift to a Boomer-less world occurs (less private donations and less ticket demand).

And the proposed playoff expansion for triple the payout is mere soft-soaping for the transition to a leaner more profitable college football upper tier, at least for those who can afford to participate.

I don’t think the ACCN will be dead. I think people will keep paying for and watching sports either through the traditional cables or Sling/Hulu/Youtube.

I do agree that the viewership will be the only real driver in the future. If you look at Wahoowa84’s viewership data, the only two Big 12 programs that had good numbers are UT and OU. OK state and WVU are the distant third and the fourth. Cincy’s number is not available.

By the way, UMCP’s and Rutgers’ numbers are quite bad. They were added when the cable footprint was still important. These two schools helped the BTN got picked by the local cable companies in NYC and DC areas but I don’t know whether these two schools would be valuable to the Big Ten in a new era.
07-08-2021 12:33 PM
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Shannon Panther Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Another random thought: OK State to the ACC
(07-05-2021 03:25 PM)ren.hoek Wrote:  
(07-05-2021 07:35 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  The only Big XII teams which would help the ACC in terms of revenue, in descending order of value, are:

Texas, Oklahoma - football brands

West Virginia - rivalry, content-multiplier

Baylor, TCU - Texas recruiting, ACCN carriage fees

Kansas - basketball brand (but only pays 20%, so maybe not?)

I see little to no ACC value in Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, Kansas State, or Iowa State. Those might be valuable to another conference, but not this one.


I don't see how WVU adds value. Zero market value, negligible impact on accn subscriptions. And then we all have to endure their knuckle dragging fans and send our teams and fans into a very unsafe and unsavory environment. No thanks.

I don't see how WVU Iowa State adds value. Zero market value, negligible impact on accn subscriptions. And then we all have to endure their knuckle dragging fans and send our teams and fans into a very unsafe and unsavory remote environment. No thanks.
07-08-2021 08:13 PM
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TroyTBoy Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Another random thought: OK State to the ACC
For what WVU fans lack in class they make up for in low brow entertainment... but then I'm far more familiar with them through the Big East than I ever had a right to be.
07-09-2021 11:00 PM
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schmolik Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Another random thought: OK State to the ACC
(07-08-2021 08:13 PM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  
(07-05-2021 03:25 PM)ren.hoek Wrote:  
(07-05-2021 07:35 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  The only Big XII teams which would help the ACC in terms of revenue, in descending order of value, are:

Texas, Oklahoma - football brands

West Virginia - rivalry, content-multiplier

Baylor, TCU - Texas recruiting, ACCN carriage fees

Kansas - basketball brand (but only pays 20%, so maybe not?)

I see little to no ACC value in Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, Kansas State, or Iowa State. Those might be valuable to another conference, but not this one.


I don't see how WVU adds value. Zero market value, negligible impact on accn subscriptions. And then we all have to endure their knuckle dragging fans and send our teams and fans into a very unsafe and unsavory environment. No thanks.

I don't see how WVU Iowa State adds value. Zero market value, negligible impact on accn subscriptions. And then we all have to endure their knuckle dragging fans and send our teams and fans into a very unsafe and unsavory remote environment. No thanks.

That's true for most of the Big 12 and several of the SEC schools as well.
07-10-2021 05:44 AM
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Shannon Panther Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Another random thought: OK State to the ACC
(07-06-2021 04:30 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  The more time passes, the more I lean towards Cincinnati over WVU.

UC has a number of advantages over WVU that make it a good choice for ACC membership.

ACCN Subscriptions: UC>WVU
Academics: UC>WVU
Geographic fit: WVU may hold a slight advantage here, but Cincinnati is much easier to get in and out of.
History with current members: WVU>UC.

UC has a longstanding rivalry with Louisville and some with Pitt. They played Syracuse in the Big East but I don't think there much rivalry there.

WVU has rivalries with Pitt, Syracuse, and VT. And a greater history with Miami, Louisville, and BC than any history UC has with other ACC members.

Institutional Fit: UC>WVU
Longterm Upside: UC>WVU

If states were stocks, very few would be buying West Virginia right now. Small State, little to no growth, no real industry or natural resources other than coal and fracking and the current administration is working against both..

Fan behavior: UC>>>>>>>>>WVU

I have attended games in both Morgantown and Cincinnati. I will never go to Morgantown for another game. Sadly there is a portion of the WVU fanbase that embrace the obnoxious redneck hillbilly stereotype. But it is big enough to make going there undesirable for me. I have never had a problem with Cinci fans.

Amenities: UC>WVU
Cincinnati has a ton more to do. You can go there and have a great weekend. Morgantown you flee immediately after the game.
07-10-2021 11:59 AM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Another random thought: OK State to the ACC
(07-06-2021 07:36 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 06:42 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 06:26 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Pardon me but I’ve waited nearly a decade to post this.

Regardless of what The Dude says… “West Virginia simply doesn’t move the needle”…. 03-lmfao

Give me Cincinnati….

Maybe WVU can grab the Bearcats spot in The American…

As long as Virginia Tech and Pitt are in the ACC you have reach into the West Virginia market. And if you only land 500,000 viewers out of 1.8 million what have you missed? Their Gross Total revenue for 2019-20 was 92.8 million. That's about 13 million less than the ACC average GTR per school. Since WVU starts with media revenue that exceeds that of the ACC this sub average revenue total is all the more alarming. The issue remains however does Cincinnati add enough value to cover their cost of admission and add revenue. They didn't in the B12.

The cost to join and keep UC in the ACC is somewhat lower than the cost of WVU. That said, if it was a no-brainer it would have happened already. I'd call it a marginal add - might boost payouts a few dollars thanks to ACCN carriage in Ohio and reopening the TV contract - but that's about it.


When it appeared that Notre Dame would completely cut off the B1G, Cincinnati made a ton of sense. Notre Dame relented and started scheduling B1G teams again and what ever chance Cincinnati had vanished.

If the Big 12 does dissolve a number if those programs may be headed to the AAC.
07-10-2021 12:43 PM
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Post: #58
RE: Another random thought: OK State to the ACC
(07-10-2021 11:59 AM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 04:30 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  The more time passes, the more I lean towards Cincinnati over WVU.

UC has a number of advantages over WVU that make it a good choice for ACC membership.

ACCN Subscriptions: UC>WVU
Academics: UC>WVU
Geographic fit: WVU may hold a slight advantage here, but Cincinnati is much easier to get in and out of.
History with current members: WVU>UC.

UC has a longstanding rivalry with Louisville and some with Pitt. They played Syracuse in the Big East but I don't think there much rivalry there.

WVU has rivalries with Pitt, Syracuse, and VT. And a greater history with Miami, Louisville, and BC than any history UC has with other ACC members.

Institutional Fit: UC>WVU
Longterm Upside: UC>WVU

If states were stocks, very few would be buying West Virginia right now. Small State, little to no growth, no real industry or natural resources other than coal and fracking and the current administration is working against both..

Fan behavior: UC>>>>>>>>>WVU

I have attended games in both Morgantown and Cincinnati. I will never go to Morgantown for another game. Sadly there is a portion of the WVU fanbase that embrace the obnoxious redneck hillbilly stereotype. But it is big enough to make going there undesirable for me. I have never had a problem with Cinci fans.

Amenities: UC>WVU
Cincinnati has a ton more to do. You can go there and have a great weekend. Morgantown you flee immediately after the game.

West Virginia has a longer history with Louisville than Cincinnati? I always associate Cincinnati and Louisville together more so than West Virginia and Louisville.
07-10-2021 01:59 PM
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Shannon Panther Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Another random thought: OK State to the ACC
(07-10-2021 01:59 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(07-10-2021 11:59 AM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 04:30 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  The more time passes, the more I lean towards Cincinnati over WVU.

UC has a number of advantages over WVU that make it a good choice for ACC membership.

ACCN Subscriptions: UC>WVU
Academics: UC>WVU
Geographic fit: WVU may hold a slight advantage here, but Cincinnati is much easier to get in and out of.
History with current members: WVU>UC.

UC has a longstanding rivalry with Louisville and some with Pitt. They played Syracuse in the Big East but I don't think there much rivalry there.

WVU has rivalries with Pitt, Syracuse, and VT. And a greater history with Miami, Louisville, and BC than any history UC has with other ACC members.

Institutional Fit: UC>WVU
Longterm Upside: UC>WVU

If states were stocks, very few would be buying West Virginia right now. Small State, little to no growth, no real industry or natural resources other than coal and fracking and the current administration is working against both..

Fan behavior: UC>>>>>>>>>WVU

I have attended games in both Morgantown and Cincinnati. I will never go to Morgantown for another game. Sadly there is a portion of the WVU fanbase that embrace the obnoxious redneck hillbilly stereotype. But it is big enough to make going there undesirable for me. I have never had a problem with Cinci fans.

Amenities: UC>WVU
Cincinnati has a ton more to do. You can go there and have a great weekend. Morgantown you flee immediately after the game.

West Virginia has a longer history with Louisville than Cincinnati? I always associate Cincinnati and Louisville together more so than West Virginia and Louisville.

Reread it. I acknowledged UC and Louisville's rivalry. It is on a par with Pitt - Syracuse. However There is more history between WVU and Louisville than Cincy and any of the ACC teams that didn't come from the old Big East.
(This post was last modified: 07-10-2021 03:36 PM by Shannon Panther.)
07-10-2021 03:29 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #60
Exclamation RE: Another random thought: OK State to the ACC
Since 1991, Cincinnati has played...
Louisville 20 times
Syracuse 13 times
Pitt 8 times
Virginia Tech 7 times
Boston College 3 times
NC State and UNC 2 times each
and Duke once.

Since 1991, West Virginia has played...
Syracuse 23 times
Pitt 21 times
Virginia Tech 16 times
Boston College 14 times
Miami 14 times
Louisville 8 times
Notre Dame 3 times
Georgia Tech, NC State, UNC, and Florida State 2 times each
Virginia and Clemson once each.
07-10-2021 08:35 PM
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