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Who will get first paycheck at odu???
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monarx Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Who will get first paycheck at odu???
(07-07-2021 09:47 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  This will have massive ramifications. University of Miami is already lining up boosters with hundreds of thousands just handing out to players.

I can understand why players want to get paid over and above all they are given but its probably going to be the death of college athletics.

And people thought I was nuts when I said thats where I saw it all going. Its so obvious to me thats what would happen. ODU has some very generous donors, but they aren't in large enough numbers for us to compete in that arms race. It was hard enough to stay competitive in facilities. I could see us paying a few folks big money to have a couple of ringers, but I dont see any way we can pay all of our football and basketball players tens (if not hundreds) of thousands each. If anything, the investment is better in basketball where one or two guys can make all the difference.

As far as a death sentence, I think we just will all have to accept we are at a lower level and not pay our folks like that. We wont be the only ones in that camp. I figure most if not all of the G5 will join us. Maybe this is what forces the separation.
(This post was last modified: 07-07-2021 11:18 AM by monarx.)
07-07-2021 10:23 AM
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Post: #22
RE: Who will get first paycheck at odu???
I don't know why anyone would think you were nuts in thinking that. Granted, a lot of this has happened behind the scenes but now its out in the open and kids are going to want to get paid.

College athletics, to me, was always fun bc these kids played for the love of the game. They put in the work and were given scholarships, clothing, food, weight training, etc. Now, its going to be even more of an arms race. And these schools are gonna broker deals that we cant compete with. All the big money programs are gonna just get richer.
07-07-2021 10:40 AM
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Post: #23
RE: Who will get first paycheck at odu???
No one is to blame but the athletic administrators who have turned college athletics into a billion dollar industry.

If an AD wants to whine, I would like to see some principle behind it. Cap your coaches' salaries. Don't isolate your athletes from the rest of campus. Don't put a bowling alley and miniature golf course in the football facility.
07-07-2021 10:59 AM
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monarx Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Who will get first paycheck at odu???
Id actually be fine with the G5 split now, or even dropping back as a group to FCS. Theres no way any of us have the money to pay players like the P5 does with the unequal distribution of media dollars. And its going to take a lot of money to recruit and pay the best players. I also wonder if this will open the door for recruits to have agents? It probably should. If Ole Miss wants to offer a guy $500k to sign and Georgia offers $550k lawyers, agents etc will surely need to get involved for negotiations etc.

Its kind of gross and I dont care to have anything to do with it. If a free college education, room, board, training, coaching, top facilities and a stipend aren't enough to entice someone to play the game they love... then go Pro5 if you can. Im OK playing Charlotte, JMU, WKU, Delaware etc. I just love watching the Monarchs play and want them to be competitive. I still love the idea of going independent and joining the A10 for everything else, even more now. The whole G5 should do it.
07-07-2021 11:16 AM
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Post: #25
RE: Who will get first paycheck at odu???
(07-07-2021 11:16 AM)monarx Wrote:  Id actually be fine with the G5 split now, or even dropping back as a group to FCS. Theres no way any of us have the money to pay players like the P5 does with the unequal distribution of media dollars. And its going to take a lot of money to recruit and pay the best players. I also wonder if this will open the door for recruits to have agents? It probably should. If Ole Miss wants to offer a guy $500k to sign and Georgia offers $550k lawyers, agents etc will surely need to get involved for negotiations etc.

Its kind of gross and I dont care to have anything to do with it. If a free college education, room, board, training, coaching, top facilities and a stipend aren't enough to entice someone to play the game they love... then go Pro5 if you can. Im OK playing Charlotte, JMU, WKU, Delaware etc. I just love watching the Monarchs play and want them to be competitive. I still love the idea of going independent and joining the A10 for everything else, even more now. The whole G5 should do it.

I think a split in FB might be inevitable and I'm ok with that too. If they **** up March Madness though then I'll spit on their graves.
07-07-2021 11:43 AM
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Post: #26
RE: Who will get first paycheck at odu???
If you want to see athletes that play for the love of the game, go talk to a Club Team Rower, or a Club Team Rugby Player. Not only do they represent the University with pride, they pay their own tuition and and pay to participate in their sport through dues payments, fund raising, and love of the sport the participate in. If they get scholarship funding, it is because they are smart and got academic monies or were luck enough to get one of the very few endowed scholarships that provide a few hundred dollars of debt relief.

I love college sports, and love ODU but D-I College sports, and all college athletics to a degree (D-I, D-II, and D-III), is not about the love of the game. It is about $$ and about making it to the pro's if you have the talent. If it was about the love of the game, coaches and the NCAA would not make Millions/Billions, and the players would not be on athletic scholarships. The idea that an athlete deserves a full scholarship (tuition room and board) while the Valedictorian of a High School does not is convoluted and crazy. IMHO
07-07-2021 12:39 PM
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Monarchblue Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Who will get first paycheck at odu???
(07-07-2021 10:59 AM)ODUCoach Wrote:  No one is to blame but the athletic administrators who have turned college athletics into a billion dollar industry.

If an AD wants to whine, I would like to see some principle behind it. Cap your coaches' salaries. Don't isolate your athletes from the rest of campus. Don't put a bowling alley and miniature golf course in the football facility.

I agree on the principal of what you are say, but I don't agree on the specifics. Pay the coaches all you want to pay them, give the athletes Disneyland, but maintain your focus on academics. That is where the NCAA failed and that is where the NCAA lost out on the argument that the benefits they were providing were payment enough. The minute they threw out all of the educational standards is the minute that the players' argument that they were being taken advantage of became valid. As I have said before, the NCAA (Presidents') position when all of this came up should have been "we have failed in our academic mission, and have failed our student athletes. Going forward, we will recommit to ensuring that every student, athlete or otherwise, that steps on our campus recieves the full value of an education at XYZ University. Then they should have proceeded to set standards that would ensure that every athlete accepted to the schools was prepared to compete in the classroom at their school. Then they could have argued amateurism and value of education coupled with highly specialized training and tons of other perks equalled a reasonable amount of pay for the student athlete. As usual, the NCAA took the exact wrong course and we ended up here, at the end of college sports as we know it.
07-07-2021 01:26 PM
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The Doctor Is In Online
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Post: #28
RE: Who will get first paycheck at odu???
Well stated!
07-07-2021 01:40 PM
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Post: #29
RE: Who will get first paycheck at odu???
(07-07-2021 01:26 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(07-07-2021 10:59 AM)ODUCoach Wrote:  No one is to blame but the athletic administrators who have turned college athletics into a billion dollar industry.

If an AD wants to whine, I would like to see some principle behind it. Cap your coaches' salaries. Don't isolate your athletes from the rest of campus. Don't put a bowling alley and miniature golf course in the football facility.

I agree on the principal of what you are say, but I don't agree on the specifics. Pay the coaches all you want to pay them, give the athletes Disneyland, but maintain your focus on academics. That is where the NCAA failed and that is where the NCAA lost out on the argument that the benefits they were providing were payment enough. The minute they threw out all of the educational standards is the minute that the players' argument that they were being taken advantage of became valid. As I have said before, the NCAA (Presidents') position when all of this came up should have been "we have failed in our academic mission, and have failed our student athletes. Going forward, we will recommit to ensuring that every student, athlete or otherwise, that steps on our campus recieves the full value of an education at XYZ University. Then they should have proceeded to set standards that would ensure that every athlete accepted to the schools was prepared to compete in the classroom at their school. Then they could have argued amateurism and value of education coupled with highly specialized training and tons of other perks equalled a reasonable amount of pay for the student athlete. As usual, the NCAA took the exact wrong course and we ended up here, at the end of college sports as we know it.

Yeah, the NCAA was too unwavering when it was clear they needed change. The rules in place were overly strict to the point of ridiculousness.
07-07-2021 01:57 PM
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Post: #30
RE: Who will get first paycheck at odu???
The issue is that the NCAA (and member schools) wanna have their cake and eat it too. They want to enjoy the benefits of armature athletics while reaping the money of a professional sports league. When college sports started, they were the 'ideal' of collegiate athletics, students that played a sport for the love of the game and for the name of the school. But as it became more popular, and more money came into athletics, it slowly warped into what we see today. The NCAA makes billions of dollars, and the top schools make tens of millions of dollars, on the labor of young men and women and compensate them much less than their productive value would otherwise entail. But they have been able to avoid paying real value or paying taxes by hiding behind the amateurism banner.

We're now at the point where the NCAA has to choose:

- Is the league an amateur athletics space, where measures will be taken to ensure that academics are the priority (coach salary caps, maximum facility improvement caps, actual restrictions on play in relation to academic performance, maximum percentage of budget allocation per sport, harsher recruiting restrictions, etc).

- Or, is the league a professional feeder league where each team has an associated college/university host, that will pay players their actual value over the table, with academics not required or not enforced.

As much as I prefer the former, I think the genie is out of the bottle and that the NCAA will be basically at least a "semi-professional" league in the next 6-7 years.
(This post was last modified: 07-07-2021 02:13 PM by Blue_Trombone.)
07-07-2021 02:11 PM
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Post: #31
RE: Who will get first paycheck at odu???
I don't understand for the life of me why our society begrudges people for making a lot of money. What the hell do coaches' salaries have to do with this conversation. These kids do NOT have to go to college and participate in this system. It is a purely optional system, some might even say it is a privilege to participate in the system. And from participating in that system, people can reap massive rewards, if only they can delay gratification. Yes, the schools need to hold up their end of the bargain, Academics. That is the only responsibility that they have to these kids other than providing a safe environment in which they can compete. These kids are not victims of the system, they are willing participants in a system that generate revenue for schools, and generates a lifetime of benefits for the athletes, if they choose to accept them. Unfortunately, the scholls far too often fail in providing these kids and education.

To your point about Greed and forgoing amateurism to chase dollars, in once since I think you are right, the idiots running this operation actually think that college sports fans care if the talent is slightly lessened because they are not embracing athletes that have no interest in being students, but in reality, going back to a system where these kids are students first, and athletes second, would actually strengthen their brand. College sports fans aren't watchin for the star power, they will go to the NBA for that. They are watching for the name on the front of the jersey, for the competition, for the pride of their school, for the joy of watching kids compete. The NCAA brand would be strengthened if it was committed to the true student athlete.
(This post was last modified: 07-07-2021 03:01 PM by Monarchblue.)
07-07-2021 02:53 PM
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monarx Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Who will get first paycheck at odu???
They aren't amateurs any longer if they get paid to play. And thats fine. Let the P(rofessional)5 teams be the minor league for the NFL if they want. Dont even make the players enroll. Just call them what they are... employees. If a guy or lady can get paid to play, Im all for it. Just not as a college student-athlete. For the rest of the guys who have lots of talent, but may not go to the NFL, and want to keep playing and get $100,000+ in education, food, housing, coaching, travel etc., well, the NCAA G5 level may be a great option. And it would still have plenty of great contests, athletes, rivalries, interest and actual fair competition and championships.

Wouldnt it be cheaper in the long run for P5 schools just to sponsor teams and let the NBA and NFL operate the minor league. Basically have the NBA G-league, but instead of calling a team the Greensboro Swarm, have it named "Duke Blue Devils" and play in Cameron Stadium instead. Duke pays for the naming rights and the NBA runs it. Do something similar for the NFL. Stop pretending these guys are students.
(This post was last modified: 07-07-2021 03:02 PM by monarx.)
07-07-2021 02:53 PM
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monarx Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Who will get first paycheck at odu???
(07-07-2021 02:53 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I don't understand for the life of me why our society begrudges people for making a lot of money. What the hell do coaches' salaries have to do with this conversation. These kids do NOT have to go to college and participate in this system. It is a purely optional system, some might even say it is a privilege to participate in the system. And from participating in that system, people can reap massive rewards, if only they can delay gratification. Yes, the schools need to hold up their end of the bargain, Academics. That is the only responsibility that they have to these kids other than providing a safe environment in which they can compete. These kids are not victims of the system, they are willing participants in a system that generate revenue for schools, and generates a lifetime of benefits for the athletes, if they choose to accept them. Unfortunately, the scholls far too often fail in providing these kids and education.

To your point about Greed and forgoing amateurism to chase dollars, in once since I think you are right, the idiots running this operation actually think that college sports fans care if the talent is slightly lessened because they are not embracing athletes that have no interest in being students, but in reality, going back to a system where these kids are students first, and athletes second, would actually strengthen their brand. College sports fans aren't watchin for the star power, they will go to the NBA for that. They are watching for the name on the front of the jersey, for the competition, for the pride of their school, for the joy of watching kids compete. The NCAA brand would be strengthened if it was committed to the true student athlete.

Yes. Yes. Yes.
07-07-2021 03:01 PM
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Post: #34
RE: Who will get first paycheck at odu???
(07-07-2021 02:53 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I don't understand for the life of me why our society begrudges people for making a lot of money. What the hell do coaches' salaries have to do with this conversation. These kids do NOT have to go to college and participate in this system. It is a purely optional system, some might even say it is a privilege to participate in the system. And from participating in that system, people can reap massive rewards, if only they can delay gratification. Yes, the schools need to hold up their end of the bargain, Academics. That is the only responsibility that they have to these kids other than providing a safe environment in which they can compete. These kids are not victims of the system, they are willing participants in a system that generate revenue for schools, and generates a lifetime of benefits for the athletes. Unfortunately, the scholls far too often fail in providing these kids and education.

To your point about Greed and forgoing amateurism to chase dollars, in once since I think you are right, the idiots running this operation actually think that college sports fans care if the talent is slightly lessened because they are not embracing athletes that have no interest in being students, but in reality, going back to a system where these kids are students first, and athletes second, would actually strengthen their brand. College sports fans aren't watchin for the star power, they will go to the NBA for that. They are watching for the name on the front of the jersey, for the competition, for the pride of their school, for the joy of watching kids compete. The NCAA brand would be strengthened if it was committed to the true student athlete.

Let me be clear. I don't begrudge anyone for making money. Coaches, players, everyone, get as much as you can. My only point is that if athletic administrators are going to cry foul about the players making money because it's supposed to be "amateur" athletics, they should be willing to sacrifice their own professional salaries for the sake of amateurism.
07-07-2021 03:01 PM
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monarx Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Who will get first paycheck at odu???
(07-07-2021 03:01 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  
(07-07-2021 02:53 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I don't understand for the life of me why our society begrudges people for making a lot of money. What the hell do coaches' salaries have to do with this conversation. These kids do NOT have to go to college and participate in this system. It is a purely optional system, some might even say it is a privilege to participate in the system. And from participating in that system, people can reap massive rewards, if only they can delay gratification. Yes, the schools need to hold up their end of the bargain, Academics. That is the only responsibility that they have to these kids other than providing a safe environment in which they can compete. These kids are not victims of the system, they are willing participants in a system that generate revenue for schools, and generates a lifetime of benefits for the athletes. Unfortunately, the scholls far too often fail in providing these kids and education.

To your point about Greed and forgoing amateurism to chase dollars, in once since I think you are right, the idiots running this operation actually think that college sports fans care if the talent is slightly lessened because they are not embracing athletes that have no interest in being students, but in reality, going back to a system where these kids are students first, and athletes second, would actually strengthen their brand. College sports fans aren't watchin for the star power, they will go to the NBA for that. They are watching for the name on the front of the jersey, for the competition, for the pride of their school, for the joy of watching kids compete. The NCAA brand would be strengthened if it was committed to the true student athlete.

Let me be clear. I don't begrudge anyone for making money. Coaches, players, everyone, get as much as you can. My only point is that if athletic administrators are going to cry foul about the players making money because it's supposed to be "amateur" athletics, they should be willing to sacrifice their own professional salaries for the sake of amateurism.

ADs and coaches are overpaid too, but at least nobody is pretending they are amateurs. They are professionals and compensated as such.
07-07-2021 03:04 PM
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Post: #36
RE: Who will get first paycheck at odu???
(07-07-2021 03:01 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  
(07-07-2021 02:53 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I don't understand for the life of me why our society begrudges people for making a lot of money. What the hell do coaches' salaries have to do with this conversation. These kids do NOT have to go to college and participate in this system. It is a purely optional system, some might even say it is a privilege to participate in the system. And from participating in that system, people can reap massive rewards, if only they can delay gratification. Yes, the schools need to hold up their end of the bargain, Academics. That is the only responsibility that they have to these kids other than providing a safe environment in which they can compete. These kids are not victims of the system, they are willing participants in a system that generate revenue for schools, and generates a lifetime of benefits for the athletes. Unfortunately, the scholls far too often fail in providing these kids and education.

To your point about Greed and forgoing amateurism to chase dollars, in once since I think you are right, the idiots running this operation actually think that college sports fans care if the talent is slightly lessened because they are not embracing athletes that have no interest in being students, but in reality, going back to a system where these kids are students first, and athletes second, would actually strengthen their brand. College sports fans aren't watchin for the star power, they will go to the NBA for that. They are watching for the name on the front of the jersey, for the competition, for the pride of their school, for the joy of watching kids compete. The NCAA brand would be strengthened if it was committed to the true student athlete.

Let me be clear. I don't begrudge anyone for making money. Coaches, players, everyone, get as much as you can. My only point is that if athletic administrators are going to cry foul about the players making money because it's supposed to be "amateur" athletics, they should be willing to sacrifice their own professional salaries for the sake of amateurism.

But why should they sacrifice? They are not there receiving an education and a launchpad into their career for free. They are employees that are there to make a living and should earn whatever the market commands. I am really surprised that you and I are having this discussion, since we seem to come from the same place on free markets.
07-07-2021 03:05 PM
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Post: #37
RE: Who will get first paycheck at odu???
(07-07-2021 03:05 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  But why should they sacrifice? They are not there receiving an education and a launchpad into their career for free. They are employees that are there to make a living and should earn whatever the market commands. I am really surprised that you and I are having this discussion, since we seem to come from the same place on free markets.

I think they should be ALLOWED to make as much money as they can. My only point is that it is totally disingenuous for administrators to be upset that the kids are making money when they've gotten rich on the backs of the players. If they were truly worried about the "holiness" of amateur athletics, they'd be willing to voluntarily sacrifice the big salaries out of principle. The athletic administrators and coaches have turned this into a professional business. They are just mad now that someone else is getting a cut.
07-07-2021 03:14 PM
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Post: #38
RE: Who will get first paycheck at odu???
(07-07-2021 03:14 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  
(07-07-2021 03:05 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  But why should they sacrifice? They are not there receiving an education and a launchpad into their career for free. They are employees that are there to make a living and should earn whatever the market commands. I am really surprised that you and I are having this discussion, since we seem to come from the same place on free markets.

I think they should be ALLOWED to make as much money as they can. My only point is that it is totally disingenuous for administrators to be upset that the kids are making money when they've gotten rich on the backs of the players. If they were truly worried about the "holiness" of amateur athletics, they'd be willing to voluntarily sacrifice the big salaries out of principle. The athletic administrators and coaches have turned this into a professional business. They are just mad now that someone else is getting a cut.

Do you really think that is how this is going for them? They are mad because someone else is getting a cut? This stuff won't affect their salaries one bit, and most coaches and ADs seem to be in favor of paying players because it gives them leverage in recruiting. The two issues are mutually exclusive. The fact that coaches and ADs make a lot of money has absolutely nothing to do with what kids do or don't get paid.
07-07-2021 03:29 PM
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RE: Who will get first paycheck at odu???
(07-07-2021 03:29 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Do you really think that is how this is going for them? They are mad because someone else is getting a cut? This stuff won't affect their salaries one bit, and most coaches and ADs seem to be in favor of paying players because it gives them leverage in recruiting. The two issues are mutually exclusive. The fact that coaches and ADs make a lot of money has absolutely nothing to do with what kids do or don't get paid.


Coaches, maybe not so much. They are mad because recruiting just got a whole lot more complicated. Administrators are mad because they are going to have to work much harder to find additional dollars for their new "employees." Life was much easier when the coaches could give $100 handshakes and the administrators could pretend like they knew nothing.

And, if I'm wrong (and Lord knows I'm wrong more often than not), I'd love to know why so many athletic admins and coaches are upset.
07-07-2021 03:34 PM
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RE: Who will get first paycheck at odu???
(07-07-2021 02:53 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I don't understand for the life of me why our society begrudges people for making a lot of money. What the hell do coaches' salaries have to do with this conversation. These kids do NOT have to go to college and participate in this system. It is a purely optional system, some might even say it is a privilege to participate in the system. And from participating in that system, people can reap massive rewards, if only they can delay gratification. Yes, the schools need to hold up their end of the bargain, Academics. That is the only responsibility that they have to these kids other than providing a safe environment in which they can compete. These kids are not victims of the system, they are willing participants in a system that generate revenue for schools, and generates a lifetime of benefits for the athletes, if they choose to accept them. Unfortunately, the scholls far too often fail in providing these kids and education.

To your point about Greed and forgoing amateurism to chase dollars, in once since I think you are right, the idiots running this operation actually think that college sports fans care if the talent is slightly lessened because they are not embracing athletes that have no interest in being students, but in reality, going back to a system where these kids are students first, and athletes second, would actually strengthen their brand. College sports fans aren't watchin for the star power, they will go to the NBA for that. They are watching for the name on the front of the jersey, for the competition, for the pride of their school, for the joy of watching kids compete. The NCAA brand would be strengthened if it was committed to the true student athlete.

Very good points
07-07-2021 03:53 PM
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