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RiceLad15 Online
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Post: #21
RE: NIL Go Live Day Thread
(07-06-2021 10:15 PM)markbrindley Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 10:08 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 09:49 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Student athlete’s have always been compensated something, but there are plenty who individually, or collectively, were getting the **** end of the stick. And something had to give.

I don't know if the article is garbage or not, but I fail to see how a back up tackle getting an education worth $60k/year is getting the short end of the stick compared to the starting QB, who gets an education worth $60k/year. Or do you think the QB should be getting a lot more, like in the real pros?

I would argue that all were getting the short end of the stick once the TV monies became real. Universities and conferences have become financial juggernauts for some and athlete compensation hasn't changed at all until now. I don't like how NIL is being applied, but the disparity between what universities are making off student athletes and what the athletes receive in return is appalling.

I still think it’s limited - as CR11 said, not all universities actually make money off of athletics. But those students who represent Alabama, and who continue to keep Alabama at the top of its game, are making that university a **** ton of money and not getting compensated based on their value.

I don’t know how much oversight there will be with the NIL, but I do appreciate that it will allow students to profit off their likeness directly and it’s not just universities paying players extra directly. But I do wonder if boosters will be able to just pay players directly now to recruit and keep them, widening that gulf.
07-07-2021 05:52 AM
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WRCisforgotten79 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: NIL Go Live Day Thread
Let's say a sponsor pays the star QB a ton of money. Would he/she also be inclined to pay the head coach some additional money to ensure that this particular QB keeps starting?
07-07-2021 08:46 AM
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Post: #23
RE: NIL Go Live Day Thread
(07-07-2021 05:52 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  But I do wonder if boosters will be able to just pay players directly now to recruit and keep them, widening that gulf.

answer
07-07-2021 09:16 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #24
RE: NIL Go Live Day Thread
I don't think whether or the universities make money is a factor. I think whether or not they have boosters willing to spend money is the factor.
07-07-2021 09:22 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #25
RE: NIL Go Live Day Thread
At some point, a top recruit somewhere will tell his school "I don't want the &*%#% scholarship. I don't want to go to no stupid classes or spend half my life chasing a stupid degree. Just give me the cash equivalent."

If the school does, a precedent has been set, and it will hurt the schools with the highest tuition costs - like Rice.
(This post was last modified: 07-07-2021 09:51 AM by OptimisticOwl.)
07-07-2021 09:50 AM
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RiceLad15 Online
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Post: #26
RE: NIL Go Live Day Thread
(07-07-2021 09:50 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  At some point, a top recruit somewhere will tell his school "I don't want the &*%#% scholarship. I don't want to go to no stupid classes or spend half my life chasing a stupid degree. Just give me the cash equivalent."

If the school does, a precedent has been set, and it will hurt the schools with the highest tuition costs - like Rice.

For basically every sport but football, that route exists. Baseball players can go straight to the minors. Basketball players can play overseas. The key is finding an alternate minor league type system for football.
07-07-2021 10:00 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #27
RE: NIL Go Live Day Thread
(07-07-2021 10:00 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(07-07-2021 09:50 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  At some point, a top recruit somewhere will tell his school "I don't want the &*%#% scholarship. I don't want to go to no stupid classes or spend half my life chasing a stupid degree. Just give me the cash equivalent."

If the school does, a precedent has been set, and it will hurt the schools with the highest tuition costs - like Rice.

For basically every sport but football, that route exists. Baseball players can go straight to the minors. Basketball players can play overseas. The key is finding an alternate minor league type system for football.

yeah, but few do that at the same time as playing for a school.

I think we are now in the development of a true developmental league in football, in the form of a division between schools that pay their players with cash - mostly the current P5 - and those who pay with scholarships - the rest of us. The P5-G5 gap will just widen until they are completely separate. Enjoy the 2035 college season. Liberty will be the collegiate national champion and Alabama the D-league champion.

I am interested to see what accommodations will be made to "pay" certain positions for their supposed earnings for the U. - namely O-line, kickers, and most defensive players. I expect to hear the word "unfair" again soon. I think maybe earnings may be pooled, like in certain service occupations.
07-07-2021 10:14 AM
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markbrindley Online
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Post: #28
RE: NIL Go Live Day Thread
(07-06-2021 10:44 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 10:15 PM)markbrindley Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 10:08 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 09:49 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Student athlete’s have always been compensated something, but there are plenty who individually, or collectively, were getting the **** end of the stick. And something had to give.

I don't know if the article is garbage or not, but I fail to see how a back up tackle getting an education worth $60k/year is getting the short end of the stick compared to the starting QB, who gets an education worth $60k/year. Or do you think the QB should be getting a lot more, like in the real pros?

I would argue that all were getting the short end of the stick once the TV monies became real. Universities and conferences have become financial juggernauts for some and athlete compensation hasn't changed at all until now. I don't like how NIL is being applied, but the disparity between what universities are making off student athletes and what the athletes receive in return is appalling.

20 universities make money in athletics. This argument is just wrong.

Look at revenue separate from costs. All of the P5 is making money off of football that is huge. They are spending it faster than they are making it.
07-07-2021 10:45 AM
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markbrindley Online
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Post: #29
RE: NIL Go Live Day Thread
(07-07-2021 05:52 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 10:15 PM)markbrindley Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 10:08 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 09:49 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Student athlete’s have always been compensated something, but there are plenty who individually, or collectively, were getting the **** end of the stick. And something had to give.

I don't know if the article is garbage or not, but I fail to see how a back up tackle getting an education worth $60k/year is getting the short end of the stick compared to the starting QB, who gets an education worth $60k/year. Or do you think the QB should be getting a lot more, like in the real pros?

I would argue that all were getting the short end of the stick once the TV monies became real. Universities and conferences have become financial juggernauts for some and athlete compensation hasn't changed at all until now. I don't like how NIL is being applied, but the disparity between what universities are making off student athletes and what the athletes receive in return is appalling.

I still think it’s limited - as CR11 said, not all universities actually make money off of athletics. But those students who represent Alabama, and who continue to keep Alabama at the top of its game, are making that university a **** ton of money and not getting compensated based on their value.

I don’t know how much oversight there will be with the NIL, but I do appreciate that it will allow students to profit off their likeness directly and it’s not just universities paying players extra directly. But I do wonder if boosters will be able to just pay players directly now to recruit and keep them, widening that gulf.

The P5 is making money off of their student athletes. All of them are. They are just spending more and more on it on the arms race that has become colliege sports. In the end, you are right, the don't make money. That doesn't change the fact that budgets are through the rough as well as income for the top half of college sports.
07-07-2021 10:51 AM
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Seventyniner Offline
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Post: #30
RE: NIL Go Live Day Thread
(07-07-2021 10:14 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(07-07-2021 10:00 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(07-07-2021 09:50 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  At some point, a top recruit somewhere will tell his school "I don't want the &*%#% scholarship. I don't want to go to no stupid classes or spend half my life chasing a stupid degree. Just give me the cash equivalent."

If the school does, a precedent has been set, and it will hurt the schools with the highest tuition costs - like Rice.

For basically every sport but football, that route exists. Baseball players can go straight to the minors. Basketball players can play overseas. The key is finding an alternate minor league type system for football.

yeah, but few do that at the same time as playing for a school.

I think we are now in the development of a true developmental league in football, in the form of a division between schools that pay their players with cash - mostly the current P5 - and those who pay with scholarships - the rest of us. The P5-G5 gap will just widen until they are completely separate. Enjoy the 2035 college season. Liberty will be the collegiate national champion and Alabama the D-league champion.

I am interested to see what accommodations will be made to "pay" certain positions for their supposed earnings for the U. - namely O-line, kickers, and most defensive players. I expect to hear the word "unfair" again soon. I think maybe earnings may be pooled, like in certain service occupations.

I wonder when collective bargaining will enter the discussion. It has already been tried, but imo the chances of it taking hold are higher now.

In a one player/one vote system, it would be hard for an extremely disproportionate amount of the money to go to the star QB compared to the backup tackle, even if the former's disproportionate contributions to team success (compared to the latter) seems to justify the pay gap.
07-07-2021 11:23 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #31
RE: NIL Go Live Day Thread
(07-07-2021 11:23 AM)Seventyniner Wrote:  
(07-07-2021 10:14 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(07-07-2021 10:00 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(07-07-2021 09:50 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  At some point, a top recruit somewhere will tell his school "I don't want the &*%#% scholarship. I don't want to go to no stupid classes or spend half my life chasing a stupid degree. Just give me the cash equivalent."

If the school does, a precedent has been set, and it will hurt the schools with the highest tuition costs - like Rice.

For basically every sport but football, that route exists. Baseball players can go straight to the minors. Basketball players can play overseas. The key is finding an alternate minor league type system for football.

yeah, but few do that at the same time as playing for a school.

I think we are now in the development of a true developmental league in football, in the form of a division between schools that pay their players with cash - mostly the current P5 - and those who pay with scholarships - the rest of us. The P5-G5 gap will just widen until they are completely separate. Enjoy the 2035 college season. Liberty will be the collegiate national champion and Alabama the D-league champion.

I am interested to see what accommodations will be made to "pay" certain positions for their supposed earnings for the U. - namely O-line, kickers, and most defensive players. I expect to hear the word "unfair" again soon. I think maybe earnings may be pooled, like in certain service occupations.

I wonder when collective bargaining will enter the discussion. It has already been tried, but imo the chances of it taking hold are higher now.

In a one player/one vote system, it would be hard for an extremely disproportionate amount of the money to go to the star QB compared to the backup tackle, even if the former's disproportionate contributions to team success (compared to the latter) seems to justify the pay gap.

I am wondering how muchthe starting QB of a 2-10 teams will demand to offset the money he is making for the school.
(This post was last modified: 07-07-2021 01:58 PM by OptimisticOwl.)
07-07-2021 12:49 PM
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Post: #32
RE: NIL Go Live Day Thread
It is clear we all have opinions about NIL and what will happen to college football in the future. So put yourself in Dr. K and Coach Bloom and Pera's (and the rest of the coaches) chair and let us know what you would do to source, develop and leverage the NIL opportunities to gain a competitive advantage for Rice athletes to enhance Rice's athletic program(s). This is a tectonic shift in college athletics so it is an opportunity to have a real positive impact on these student-athletes and Rice athletics

While the University cannot directly arrange NIL opportunities for the Student Athlete I am certain many Universities are brainstorming with groups and encouraging the development of NIL opportunities for their student athletes. One key regulation is that prospective student athletes are not eligible until they are actually enrolled and also no NIL opportunity can exceed the time that the Student Athlete is on campus competing.
(This post was last modified: 07-07-2021 01:18 PM by Kayjay.)
07-07-2021 12:55 PM
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Post: #33
RE: NIL Go Live Day Thread
(07-01-2021 08:53 AM)lou Wrote:  Well, it turns out several of our student-athletes have turned to a platform for remote-coaching called Vevolve. It's sort of a Cameo meets YouTube but for Coaching.

This is what came up when I searched 'Cameo':

Artist: [b]Cameo[/b]
Album: Alligator Woman
Track: "Flirt"
March 22, 1982 Casablanca Records


07-07-2021 02:24 PM
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RiceLad15 Online
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Post: #34
RE: NIL Go Live Day Thread
(07-07-2021 02:24 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  
(07-01-2021 08:53 AM)lou Wrote:  Well, it turns out several of our student-athletes have turned to a platform for remote-coaching called Vevolve. It's sort of a Cameo meets YouTube but for Coaching.

This is what came up when I searched 'Cameo':

Artist: [b]Cameo[/b]
Album: Alligator Woman
Track: "Flirt"
March 22, 1982 Casablanca Records



The early 80s musta been a wild time to be alive.
07-07-2021 02:38 PM
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illiniowl Offline
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Post: #35
RE: NIL Go Live Day Thread
(07-07-2021 12:55 PM)Kayjay Wrote:  It is clear we all have opinions about NIL and what will happen to college football in the future. So put yourself in Dr. K and Coach Bloom and Pera's (and the rest of the coaches) chair and let us know what you would do to source, develop and leverage the NIL opportunities to gain a competitive advantage for Rice athletes to enhance Rice's athletic program(s). This is a tectonic shift in college athletics so it is an opportunity to have a real positive impact on these student-athletes and Rice athletics

While the University cannot directly arrange NIL opportunities for the Student Athlete I am certain many Universities are brainstorming with groups and encouraging the development of NIL opportunities for their student athletes. One key regulation is that prospective student athletes are not eligible until they are actually enrolled and also no NIL opportunity can exceed the time that the Student Athlete is on campus competing.

I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no way this is a positive development/growth opportunity for small schools like Rice.

It's a positive for individual kids, sure. Anyone who wants to pay Rice athletes and recruits, knock yourselves out. The kids will appreciate it, I'm sure.

But other fans of other schools will be doing the same, and they outnumber us, vastly in most cases (especially w/r/t schools Rice people care about competing with and comparing themselves to).

So on a program level, that means there will be little to no ROI to paying Rice kids. The only ones doing it will be pure altruists or people with more money than sense.

I mean, *maybe* we theoretically have enough collective wealth and will to punch above our weight vs. CUSA and similar schools. We can probably buy better teams in most sports than Southern Miss and UTSA, for instance. Better than Texas, though? Or TCU, Baylor, A&M...? Or Stanford, Duke, Vandy, Northwestern...? Absolutely not. Never.

I think there's no question that the gulf between P5 and G5 will widen exponentially from here on out.

And if the best my money can buy is, say, a CUSA-competitive team with an impenetrable ceiling above that due to the increasing concentration of talent at schools with alumni bases that can out-resource us now that those resources have been officially unlocked, well then, I'll just hang on to my money, thanks.
(This post was last modified: 07-07-2021 02:54 PM by illiniowl.)
07-07-2021 02:45 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #36
RE: NIL Go Live Day Thread
This is Terra Incognita for us.
07-07-2021 03:15 PM
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Kayjay Offline
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Post: #37
RE: NIL Go Live Day Thread
(07-07-2021 02:45 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  
(07-07-2021 12:55 PM)Kayjay Wrote:  It is clear we all have opinions about NIL and what will happen to college football in the future. So put yourself in Dr. K and Coach Bloom and Pera's (and the rest of the coaches) chair and let us know what you would do to source, develop and leverage the NIL opportunities to gain a competitive advantage for Rice athletes to enhance Rice's athletic program(s). This is a tectonic shift in college athletics so it is an opportunity to have a real positive impact on these student-athletes and Rice athletics

While the University cannot directly arrange NIL opportunities for the Student Athlete I am certain many Universities are brainstorming with groups and encouraging the development of NIL opportunities for their student athletes. One key regulation is that prospective student athletes are not eligible until they are actually enrolled and also no NIL opportunity can exceed the time that the Student Athlete is on campus competing.

I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no way this is a positive development/growth opportunity for small schools like Rice.

It's a positive for individual kids, sure. Anyone who wants to pay Rice athletes and recruits, knock yourselves out. The kids will appreciate it, I'm sure.

But other fans of other schools will be doing the same, and they outnumber us, vastly in most cases (especially w/r/t schools Rice people care about competing with and comparing themselves to).

So on a program level, that means there will be little to no ROI to paying Rice kids. The only ones doing it will be pure altruists or people with more money than sense.

I mean, *maybe* we theoretically have enough collective wealth and will to punch above our weight vs. CUSA and similar schools. We can probably buy better teams in most sports than Southern Miss and UTSA, for instance. Better than Texas, though? Or TCU, Baylor, A&M...? Or Stanford, Duke, Vandy, Northwestern...? Absolutely not. Never.

I think there's no question that the gulf between P5 and G5 will widen exponentially from here on out.

And if the best my money can buy is, say, a CUSA-competitive team with an impenetrable ceiling above that due to the increasing concentration of talent at schools with alumni bases that can out-resource us now that those resources have been officially unlocked, well then, I'll just hang on to my money, thanks.

So my interpretation of this response is that you believe that Rice should just give up because there is no way Rice can compete in this new college athletics landscape.
07-07-2021 05:41 PM
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illiniowl Offline
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Post: #38
RE: NIL Go Live Day Thread
(07-07-2021 05:41 PM)Kayjay Wrote:  
(07-07-2021 02:45 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  
(07-07-2021 12:55 PM)Kayjay Wrote:  It is clear we all have opinions about NIL and what will happen to college football in the future. So put yourself in Dr. K and Coach Bloom and Pera's (and the rest of the coaches) chair and let us know what you would do to source, develop and leverage the NIL opportunities to gain a competitive advantage for Rice athletes to enhance Rice's athletic program(s). This is a tectonic shift in college athletics so it is an opportunity to have a real positive impact on these student-athletes and Rice athletics

While the University cannot directly arrange NIL opportunities for the Student Athlete I am certain many Universities are brainstorming with groups and encouraging the development of NIL opportunities for their student athletes. One key regulation is that prospective student athletes are not eligible until they are actually enrolled and also no NIL opportunity can exceed the time that the Student Athlete is on campus competing.

I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no way this is a positive development/growth opportunity for small schools like Rice.

It's a positive for individual kids, sure. Anyone who wants to pay Rice athletes and recruits, knock yourselves out. The kids will appreciate it, I'm sure.

But other fans of other schools will be doing the same, and they outnumber us, vastly in most cases (especially w/r/t schools Rice people care about competing with and comparing themselves to).

So on a program level, that means there will be little to no ROI to paying Rice kids. The only ones doing it will be pure altruists or people with more money than sense.

I mean, *maybe* we theoretically have enough collective wealth and will to punch above our weight vs. CUSA and similar schools. We can probably buy better teams in most sports than Southern Miss and UTSA, for instance. Better than Texas, though? Or TCU, Baylor, A&M...? Or Stanford, Duke, Vandy, Northwestern...? Absolutely not. Never.

I think there's no question that the gulf between P5 and G5 will widen exponentially from here on out.

And if the best my money can buy is, say, a CUSA-competitive team with an impenetrable ceiling above that due to the increasing concentration of talent at schools with alumni bases that can out-resource us now that those resources have been officially unlocked, well then, I'll just hang on to my money, thanks.

So my interpretation of this response is that you believe that Rice should just give up because there is no way Rice can compete in this new college athletics landscape.

Rice already gave up. Years and years ago. That's why we're in a third-rate conference with directional schools.

It's a simple matter of return on investment. I would absolutely open up my wallet and give as much as I could -- both to the school and now directly to the kids -- if there was a reasonable prospect of fundamentally improving our situation. There isn't. We don't even have a plan for it. And now that alumni/fan money can flow directly to athletes & recruits, well, we are stuck with the proverbial knife at a gunfight.

If people want to sponsor kids for whatever reason, go for it. Heck, I'd write Grace Forbes a check right now for all she's done for Rice this year. But I'm not under any illusion that this is a game-changer -- in a positive way -- for Rice Athletics overall.
07-08-2021 02:15 PM
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WRCisforgotten79 Offline
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Post: #39
RE: NIL Go Live Day Thread
In a few years, it's going to be P5 for the 66 and DIII for everyone else.
07-08-2021 04:40 PM
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Post: #40
RE: NIL Go Live Day Thread
(07-08-2021 04:40 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  In a few years, it's going to be P5 for the 66 and DIII for everyone else.

Who's the 66th team? I count 65 currently in the P5 conferences (counting Notre Dame).

There won't be a D2 anymore? Why would the other teams call themselves DIII at that point? They may as well call themselves a cool name instead.
07-08-2021 04:54 PM
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