(06-23-2021 12:37 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 12:32 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 12:23 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Nothing DII about Patriot or NEC. Ivy doesn't offer scholarships in any sport - should all their DI championships be voided?

Pioneer - well, not going to let a few schools and one bid mean much. I am just happy they offer football.

FCS offers what you dream about - guaranteed access to the playoffs

DII has a max of 36 scholarships for Football programs.

NEC limits it to 40 scholarships. Patriot is allowed up to 60 but no team fully funds to that.

I don't recall the exact rules offhand, but some Patriot league schools have started playing FBS games, in order for the game to count for bowl eligibility for the FBS team the PL school has to offer a certain number of scholarships (I don't recall the exact number).

In 2019 the PL had 5 of those games (HC x2, Bucknell, Colgate, and Fordham all played FBS schools), I don't know that all of those schools funded 60 scholarships, but they have to fund a lot of them.

Fair. It is still an entire conference that is undercutting the FCS's scholarship level. Nonconformity, subdivision-wide, leads to that "hot mess" that Dbackjon is so adamant it isn't.

(06-23-2021 11:11 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 10:59 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 10:52 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 10:44 AM)solohawks Wrote:  But the way I see it, for the conferences that actually try in FCS: including Big Sky, Southland, MVC, CAA, and SoCon, they would be much better off if they were classified as FBS and of the same stature as the Sunbelt, MAC, and CUSA.

Better off how? What would we be playing for? The opportunity to squeak out 6-6 and play in some modern version of the defunct Knute Rockne Bowl in Bridgeport, Connecticut?

That bowl would likely draw more TV audience and money than any FCS playoff game outside of possibly the championship.

For the hardcore fans of the schools FCS can be great. But its not going to make you much if any money and schools that do find success in FCS will leave once they are able to, thus the watering down effect occurs.

The Sun Belt and CUSA get about $400,000-$500,000 in their TV deals, per school, less expenses of production: https://247sports.com/college/arkansas-s...116260412/

I guess this is the fundamental difference between our arguments: I don't care how much TV audience my school's games bring in for ESPN. I don't care how much advertising revenue ESPN would make off a game involving my team. I really don't care how much money my school gets from a conference TV contract payout.

I want to be able to watch my school compete against its peers, and I want it to do moderately to fairly well in those games. The FCS is the best vehicle to do that if Maine is going to play football. Forcing Maine up to FBS would make Maine a tiny fish in a large pond, and the football team would probably fare as well as the basketball program (very, very poorly). Even if there is more money in the CAA/MVFC/SoCon/Big Sky being FBS, the expenses to try to win games at that level would swallow any gain whole. Marginally, it would be a loss. And, again, I don't care how much money is sitting in Maine's bank account (which is good, because the answer is likely "not much"). I want to be able to watch. And I want Maine to do well against New Hampshire and its other peers.

Here is the article I used to cite my figures
https://swcroundup.com/news/2018/3/2/the...ottom-line

I completely understand and respect your argument. Certain schools will do much better at the FCS level. It would probably be better for the sport as a whole if there were more NDSU's and JMU's than bottom level P5 programs who simply cannot afford to improve and compete.

My point is simply about the forced 1AA/FCS classification that occurred and how since there is not minimum standard to 1AA/FCS, many schools were forcibly relegated to a minor league status with schools with which they were not compatible.

Ideally there would be mid level division of football where schools who cannot compete with the Alabama's of football but don't want to be associated with the Butler's of football. Instead what we have are 2 divisions, both of which have a wide discrepancy.

(06-23-2021 12:39 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 12:37 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 12:32 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 12:23 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Nothing DII about Patriot or NEC. Ivy doesn't offer scholarships in any sport - should all their DI championships be voided?

Pioneer - well, not going to let a few schools and one bid mean much. I am just happy they offer football.

FCS offers what you dream about - guaranteed access to the playoffs

DII has a max of 36 scholarships for Football programs.

NEC limits it to 40 scholarships. Patriot is allowed up to 60 but no team fully funds to that.

I don't recall the exact rules offhand, but some Patriot league schools have started playing FBS games, in order for the game to count for bowl eligibility for the FBS team the PL school has to offer a certain number of scholarships (I don't recall the exact number).

In 2019 the PL had 5 of those games (HC x2, Bucknell, Colgate, and Fordham all played FBS schools), I don't know that all of those schools funded 60 scholarships, but they have to fund a lot of them.

Fair. It is still an entire conference that is undercutting the FCS's scholarship level. Nonconformity, subdivision-wide, leads to that "hot mess" that Dbackjon is so adamant it isn't.

That's fair, but I think once you start getting outside of FBS football and basketball there's a lot of those inconsistencies. Plenty of schools don't offer any scholarships or offer below the max for olympic/non revenue sports. Eastern Washington's plan for staying D1 basically includes funding non football/basketball sports at a D3 level.

Even at the FBS level teams like Mississippi State this year or Kansas a few years back are playing at well below 85 scholarship players.

(06-23-2021 12:32 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 12:23 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Nothing DII about Patriot or NEC. Ivy doesn't offer scholarships in any sport - should all their DI championships be voided?

Pioneer - well, not going to let a few schools and one bid mean much. I am just happy they offer football.

FCS offers what you dream about - guaranteed access to the playoffs

DII has a max of 36 scholarships for Football programs.

NEC limits it to 40 scholarships. Patriot is allowed up to 60 but no team fully funds to that.

NEC limits to 45 actual scholarships but allows another 15 need based, which qualifies as a scholarship. So from the NCAA Standpoint, Wagner offers 60 scholarships, which makes them counters for FBS teams. Wagner and other NEC teams now play against FBS schools.

(06-23-2021 12:39 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 12:37 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 12:32 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 12:23 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Nothing DII about Patriot or NEC. Ivy doesn't offer scholarships in any sport - should all their DI championships be voided?

Pioneer - well, not going to let a few schools and one bid mean much. I am just happy they offer football.

FCS offers what you dream about - guaranteed access to the playoffs

DII has a max of 36 scholarships for Football programs.

NEC limits it to 40 scholarships. Patriot is allowed up to 60 but no team fully funds to that.

I don't recall the exact rules offhand, but some Patriot league schools have started playing FBS games, in order for the game to count for bowl eligibility for the FBS team the PL school has to offer a certain number of scholarships (I don't recall the exact number).

In 2019 the PL had 5 of those games (HC x2, Bucknell, Colgate, and Fordham all played FBS schools), I don't know that all of those schools funded 60 scholarships, but they have to fund a lot of them.

Fair. It is still an entire conference that is undercutting the FCS's scholarship level. Nonconformity, subdivision-wide, leads to that "hot mess" that Dbackjon is so adamant it isn't.

It is only a hot mess if you view it that way. To me, the FBS is far more a hot mess.

Look at that. We all agreed to disagree.

(06-23-2021 12:23 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 11:44 AM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 11:36 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 08:49 AM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  FCS is a combo of DI through DIII. When you have three conferences (Ivy, SWAC, MEAC) that don't send their champ to the playoffs, four conferences (Pioneer, NEC, Patriot, Ivy) with less than the full amount of scholarships, and a second championship inside the division you can expect a hot mess.

Almost 1/3 or so of the I-aa/FCS champions since its beginning have moved to FBS. Those dozen or so schools who actually have the ability to win a championship don't seem to care the playing field has reduced to redheaded step children.


Edit: However I still watch. Because football.

No - FCS is still DI. And it isn't a mess. And FCS produces a True National Championship - something App St will never play for again.

Simmer Donna.

FCS is DI but has active elements of DII (Patriot/NEC) and DIII (Ivy and Pioneer). There's two championships being played for by leagues classified as FCS. Hot. Mess.


App State fans wouldn't have the school move back to that classification for any reason. I was in the stands for the first bowl win and it was more exciting than my time in Chattanooga at both the 2nd or the 3rd FCS championship.

Nothing DII about Patriot or NEC. Ivy doesn't offer scholarships in any sport - should all their DI championships be voided?

Pioneer - well, not going to let a few schools and one bid mean much. I am just happy they offer football.

FCS offers what you dream about - guaranteed access to the playoffs

Pioneer League can't be compared to D-3.

They get much better athletes - there's been 7 Pioneer League players go on to play in the NFL in the past 6 years.

They have much larger budgets due to being in bigger athletic departments (like Big East member Butler) and the ability to play buy games against D-1 opponents (Mercer even has a future game scheduled against Army).

They get better fan support. In 2019, D-3 schools averaged 1700 fans per game. The Pioneer League averaged 2700 (which is actually above the FCS Northeast Conference).

(06-23-2021 01:00 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 12:23 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 11:44 AM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 11:36 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 08:49 AM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  FCS is a combo of DI through DIII. When you have three conferences (Ivy, SWAC, MEAC) that don't send their champ to the playoffs, four conferences (Pioneer, NEC, Patriot, Ivy) with less than the full amount of scholarships, and a second championship inside the division you can expect a hot mess.

Almost 1/3 or so of the I-aa/FCS champions since its beginning have moved to FBS. Those dozen or so schools who actually have the ability to win a championship don't seem to care the playing field has reduced to redheaded step children.


Edit: However I still watch. Because football.

No - FCS is still DI. And it isn't a mess. And FCS produces a True National Championship - something App St will never play for again.

Simmer Donna.

FCS is DI but has active elements of DII (Patriot/NEC) and DIII (Ivy and Pioneer). There's two championships being played for by leagues classified as FCS. Hot. Mess.


App State fans wouldn't have the school move back to that classification for any reason. I was in the stands for the first bowl win and it was more exciting than my time in Chattanooga at both the 2nd or the 3rd FCS championship.

Nothing DII about Patriot or NEC. Ivy doesn't offer scholarships in any sport - should all their DI championships be voided?

Pioneer - well, not going to let a few schools and one bid mean much. I am just happy they offer football.

FCS offers what you dream about - guaranteed access to the playoffs

Pioneer League can't be compared to D-3.

They get much better athletes - there's been 7 Pioneer League players go on to play in the NFL in the past 6 years.

They have much larger budgets due to being in bigger athletic departments (like Big East member Butler) and the ability to play buy games against D-1 opponents (Mercer even has a future game scheduled against Army).

They get better fan support. In 2019, D-3 schools averaged 1700 fans per game. The Pioneer League averaged 2700 (which is actually above the FCS Northeast Conference).

Yup - which is why the Pioneer League was created in the first place - REAL D3 schools were tired of well-funded DI schools like Dayton being in the same division for one sport.

(06-23-2021 07:11 AM)CoastalVANDAL Wrote:  I think it is fine it allows D1 schools to have football without the G5 minimum cost.
St Thomas can have non scholarship football and afford D1 athletics easier.
More schools should probably go the non scholarship route or limited scholarship.

There are NCAA rules about when a school can and can't give non-athletic financial aid to varsity athletes. IIRC the most important part of that is, a varsity athlete can only receive non-athletic aid that is generally available to students at the school, eg they can get need-based aid if the school gives the same amount to all students at the athlete's family income level, and if the school automatically gives a partial academic scholarship to every student with a certain high school gpa then the athletes can get that, etc.

As applied to FCS football, I think the effect is that it's easier for private schools to have no-scholarship or very limited scholarship football; it might be easier for a private college to find creative ways within the NCAA rules to pay for all or nearly all of the tuition and other costs for an athlete that isn't receiving an athletic scholarship.

That might be why nearly all of the FCS teams that have no-scholarship or limited scholarship football are private colleges.

(06-23-2021 01:29 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 07:11 AM)CoastalVANDAL Wrote:  I think it is fine it allows D1 schools to have football without the G5 minimum cost.
St Thomas can have non scholarship football and afford D1 athletics easier.
More schools should probably go the non scholarship route or limited scholarship.

There are NCAA rules about when a school can and can't give non-athletic financial aid to varsity athletes. IIRC the most important part of that is, a varsity athlete can only receive non-athletic aid that is generally available to students at the school, eg they can get need-based aid if the school gives the same amount to all students at the athlete's family income level, and if the school automatically gives a partial academic scholarship to every student with a certain high school gpa then the athletes can get that, etc.

As applied to FCS football, I think the effect is that it's easier for private schools to have no-scholarship or very limited scholarship football; it might be easier for a private college to find creative ways within the NCAA rules to pay for all or nearly all of the tuition and other costs for an athlete that isn't receiving an athletic scholarship.

That might be why nearly all of the FCS teams that have no-scholarship or limited scholarship football are private colleges.

Well, the other benefit to FCS is that you can award partial scholarships. As a public school, with generally lower tuition than a private school, and a generally lower threshold for academic awards, you can usually get a kid to a 100% free ride with only a partial athletic scholarship. And spread that across way more than 63 kids. Being "non-scholarship" probably doesn't save you much money.

(06-23-2021 10:47 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 10:34 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 10:30 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 10:15 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 10:06 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  I also don't see how it cheapens the experience of the top teams playing in the playoffs for SWAC/MEAC/Ivy schools to not participate.

Does it make a NDSU/SDSU semifinal worse that Harvard or Yale didn't participate in the playoffs? Does the Celebration Bowl mean that JMU vs. Sam Houston is a farce? Does the mere existence of Presbyterian or Stetson or Dayton mean that Northern Iowa or Montana fans have a worse experience at a game not involving those teams?

I would surmise the problem amongst FCS aficionados is that the lack of consistency cheapens the brand.

How good are the FCS playoffs if 3 of the conferences dont even want to participate?

How good is FCS as a whole if you have X number of schools who dont even fully fund the program or even offer scholarships at all?

One could argue the gap between JMU/NDSU and Davidson/Dayton is larger than the gap between Alabama and ULM. At least the gap between Alabama and ULM, in part, can be partially explained by the current conference structural advantage that exists in FBS.

In FCS, some programs really try and others put in the bare minimum due to tradition or some other reason.

I guess my answer is, "so what?" If I'm sitting there on a Saturday afternoon, watching Maine host like William and Mary or New Hampshire, what the heck do I care if Dayton is playing Davidson? Even if we are talking about the FCS "brand," the only attention FCS gets outside of schools that are in the FCS are 1.) when an FCS school beats an FBS school, or puts a scare in a P5 school, or 2.) the playoffs on ESPN (or the Celebration Bowl). Those moments are so fleeting that there isn't time for some deep discussion of the University of San Diego's finances vis a vis NDSU.

I don't think there's any value to a discussion of "How good is the FCS?" or anything. My team plays in the FCS and I couldn't care less. And I doubt anyone outside this board cares at all.

If you're the CAA or SoCon trying to talk to executives about getting a media contract, they are going to compare you to the Pioneer and NEC instead of CUSA and Sunbelt, even though the level of play in the CAA or SoCon may be closer to CUSA/Sunbelt.

Its not fair, but being associated in the same classification with conferences who are not trying hurts your brand.

I disagree. The "media executives" don't care about how good you play, they care about how many people want to watch your games. Frankly, for every conference below the Mountain West, the answer is "not very many."

Sure, it'd be nice if the CAA got the $100,000 per school payout that the Sun Belt/CUSA schools get, but that's not life changing money for anyone. And I don't think it's affected by the NEC's existence.

Exactly right. At the end of the day the media providers want to tell advertisers that they will reach X number of eyeballs on game day.

That’s why we will probably see more Jackson State games televised with Coach Deion Sanders…they will draw viewers. Has nothing to do with the perceived level of football being played.

(06-23-2021 11:11 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 10:59 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 10:52 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 10:44 AM)solohawks Wrote:  But the way I see it, for the conferences that actually try in FCS: including Big Sky, Southland, MVC, CAA, and SoCon, they would be much better off if they were classified as FBS and of the same stature as the Sunbelt, MAC, and CUSA.

Better off how? What would we be playing for? The opportunity to squeak out 6-6 and play in some modern version of the defunct Knute Rockne Bowl in Bridgeport, Connecticut?

That bowl would likely draw more TV audience and money than any FCS playoff game outside of possibly the championship.

For the hardcore fans of the schools FCS can be great. But its not going to make you much if any money and schools that do find success in FCS will leave once they are able to, thus the watering down effect occurs.

The Sun Belt and CUSA get about $400,000-$500,000 in their TV deals, per school, less expenses of production: https://247sports.com/college/arkansas-s...116260412/

I guess this is the fundamental difference between our arguments: I don't care how much TV audience my school's games bring in for ESPN. I don't care how much advertising revenue ESPN would make off a game involving my team. I really don't care how much money my school gets from a conference TV contract payout.

I want to be able to watch my school compete against its peers, and I want it to do moderately to fairly well in those games. The FCS is the best vehicle to do that if Maine is going to play football. Forcing Maine up to FBS would make Maine a tiny fish in a large pond, and the football team would probably fare as well as the basketball program (very, very poorly). Even if there is more money in the CAA/MVFC/SoCon/Big Sky being FBS, the expenses to try to win games at that level would swallow any gain whole. Marginally, it would be a loss. And, again, I don't care how much money is sitting in Maine's bank account (which is good, because the answer is likely "not much"). I want to be able to watch. And I want Maine to do well against New Hampshire and its other peers.

I get where you are coming from ccd494. One thing you might want to try is to go to YouTube and type in Maine Black Bears football. I have to do the same thing to watch my alma mater, the University of Montevallo, play basketball, baseball, or soccer. Also, I like to listen to games on the radio also. You can get that on your football team's official website.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

(06-23-2021 11:34 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 07:28 AM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  FCS should go away. Allow schools to either be D1 FBS or DII in football or DI and no football. Or play each sport where you want.

With the recent SCOTUS anti trust ruling it would appear the NCAA would have a hard time stopping a school or conference from moving to any level they desired.

Why?

FCS is great for the schools that are DI but still want football and aren't trying to pretend they compete with Alabama.

G5 arent pretend to compete with Alabama, maybe a few uninformed fans but not the administration.

(06-24-2021 06:41 AM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 11:34 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 07:28 AM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  FCS should go away. Allow schools to either be D1 FBS or DII in football or DI and no football. Or play each sport where you want.

With the recent SCOTUS anti trust ruling it would appear the NCAA would have a hard time stopping a school or conference from moving to any level they desired.

Why?

FCS is great for the schools that are DI but still want football and aren't trying to pretend they compete with Alabama.

G5 arent pretend to compete with Alabama, maybe a few uninformed fans but not the administration.

That's my take as well.

Just like mid majors in basketball know that night in and out they could not compete with College Basketball bluebloods, they would fight tooth and nail to be given their own playoff and segregated from those same bloodbloods permanently.

Being able to brand yourself at the top level is important

(06-24-2021 06:55 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(06-24-2021 06:41 AM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 11:34 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 07:28 AM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  FCS should go away. Allow schools to either be D1 FBS or DII in football or DI and no football. Or play each sport where you want.

With the recent SCOTUS anti trust ruling it would appear the NCAA would have a hard time stopping a school or conference from moving to any level they desired.

Why?

FCS is great for the schools that are DI but still want football and aren't trying to pretend they compete with Alabama.

G5 arent pretend to compete with Alabama, maybe a few uninformed fans but not the administration.

That's my take as well.

Just like mid majors in basketball know that night in and out they could not compete with College Basketball bluebloods, they would fight tooth and nail to be given their own playoff and segregated from those same bloodbloods permanently.

Being able to brand yourself at the top level is important

If a some schools feel like they should be given a separate playoff to avoid the blue bloods then they should drop down to D2. Who would even want that?

(06-24-2021 06:55 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(06-24-2021 06:41 AM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 11:34 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 07:28 AM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  FCS should go away. Allow schools to either be D1 FBS or DII in football or DI and no football. Or play each sport where you want.

With the recent SCOTUS anti trust ruling it would appear the NCAA would have a hard time stopping a school or conference from moving to any level they desired.

Why?

FCS is great for the schools that are DI but still want football and aren't trying to pretend they compete with Alabama.

G5 arent pretend to compete with Alabama, maybe a few uninformed fans but not the administration.

That's my take as well.

Just like mid majors in basketball know that night in and out they could not compete with College Basketball bluebloods, they would fight tooth and nail to be given their own playoff and segregated from those same bloodbloods permanently.

Being able to brand yourself at the top level is important

So you want to brand yourself at the top level while knowing you aren't the top level...

(06-24-2021 11:24 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-24-2021 06:55 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(06-24-2021 06:41 AM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 11:34 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 07:28 AM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  FCS should go away. Allow schools to either be D1 FBS or DII in football or DI and no football. Or play each sport where you want.

With the recent SCOTUS anti trust ruling it would appear the NCAA would have a hard time stopping a school or conference from moving to any level they desired.

Why?

FCS is great for the schools that are DI but still want football and aren't trying to pretend they compete with Alabama.

G5 arent pretend to compete with Alabama, maybe a few uninformed fans but not the administration.

That's my take as well.

Just like mid majors in basketball know that night in and out they could not compete with College Basketball bluebloods, they would fight tooth and nail to be given their own playoff and segregated from those same bloodbloods permanently.

Being able to brand yourself at the top level is important

So you want to brand yourself at the top level while knowing you aren't the top level...

That's basically what almost all G5 schools that spend $25 million in student fees and academic - side transfers each year are doing. The ego-desire by boosters and the career-desires of the admins drive this spending - of largely other people's money, of course.

That's the only justification. A Michigan directional wants to think of themselves, and wants constituencies to think of them, as being in "the same league" with Michigan, Ohio State, etc. They pay for the charade.

Very expensive way to advertise, IMO.

(06-23-2021 10:35 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 10:27 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 10:18 AM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 07:40 AM)solohawks Wrote:  What is the goal of FCS?

FCS was created to keep a bunch of Division I schools out of FBS.

I imagine this was originally about TV money, or something, although I've never been sure.

from what I've learned from ArkStfan, it was created with a bunch of false promises to keep smaller schools at a different level in order to attempt to keep the bigger schools aligned and satisfied under the NCAA football TV deal.

When the NCAA lost the 1984 Supreme Court case and conferences began taking greater control and maximizing their revenue, the goals for which 1AA was created were no longer needed.

I don't think it's accurate to look at FCS as something foisted upon the schools there and only these darn NCAA bylaws are keeping them from taking the college football world by storm.

It was foisted on the MAC for sure, which had to work to meet the new requirements. I'm pretty sure it was foisted on the Missouri Valley, which ultimately could not meet them. My guess is that the Ivy League did not advocate the split.

Quote:99% of schools in the FCS are there because they have no business competing (or even "competing" in the UMass/ULM sense) against Alabama or Clemson.

... in your opinion. Until the late 1970s or early 1980s, they did. In every other NCAA sport, they still do.

(06-24-2021 11:24 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-24-2021 06:55 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(06-24-2021 06:41 AM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 11:34 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 07:28 AM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  FCS should go away. Allow schools to either be D1 FBS or DII in football or DI and no football. Or play each sport where you want.

With the recent SCOTUS anti trust ruling it would appear the NCAA would have a hard time stopping a school or conference from moving to any level they desired.

Why?

FCS is great for the schools that are DI but still want football and aren't trying to pretend they compete with Alabama.

G5 arent pretend to compete with Alabama, maybe a few uninformed fans but not the administration.

That's my take as well.

Just like mid majors in basketball know that night in and out they could not compete with College Basketball bluebloods, they would fight tooth and nail to be given their own playoff and segregated from those same bloodbloods permanently.

Being able to brand yourself at the top level is important

So you want to brand yourself at the top level while knowing you aren't the top level...

I want small schools to be able to play P5 level schools in meaningful games. It's the beauty of college athletics

(06-23-2021 11:44 AM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 11:36 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 08:49 AM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  FCS is a combo of DI through DIII. When you have three conferences (Ivy, SWAC, MEAC) that don't send their champ to the playoffs, four conferences (Pioneer, NEC, Patriot, Ivy) with less than the full amount of scholarships, and a second championship inside the division you can expect a hot mess.

Almost 1/3 or so of the I-aa/FCS champions since its beginning have moved to FBS. Those dozen or so schools who actually have the ability to win a championship don't seem to care the playing field has reduced to redheaded step children.


Edit: However I still watch. Because football.

No - FCS is still DI. And it isn't a mess. And FCS produces a True National Championship - something App St will never play for again.

Simmer Donna.

FCS is DI but has active elements of DII (Patriot/NEC) and DIII (Ivy and Pioneer). There's two championships being played for by leagues classified as FCS. Hot. Mess.


App State fans wouldn't have the school move back to that classification for any reason. I was in the stands for the first bowl win and it was more exciting than my time in Chattanooga at both the 2nd or the 3rd FCS championship.

Almost anyone that was anything 25 years ago, is no longer IAA. App State, GA Southern, Troy, MT, WKU, Boise State, Marshall and even ULM. Just in those 8 schools accounts for 14 IAA National Titles with GA Southern (6), App State (3), Marshall (2), WKU (1), Boise State (1) and ULM (1). I guess if you want to you could add UMass and add another IAA title as they won the 1998 National Title.

There is no parity at the top of IAA like there was from the mid 80s to the mid 90s. As we speak there is probably only 4-6 programs that could legitimately contend and win a national championship.

IAA is a jumbled mess with those that fully fund their program like North Dakota State and JMU to those who only have football to stay in the conference because its required ie. VMI and Central Conn. State.

Then you have the Ivy, Pioneer, SWAC and MEAC that like to play by their own rules.

But the thing is there is probably less that 5 schools that could actually be IA and do it the right way.

And for those who claim Marshall will never see a national championship. Thats fine, esp if I get to watch my Thundering Herd compete with like minded schools and occasionally play one of the so called elite programs. In the next few years Marshall has H/H with ECU, App State, Navy, VA Tech and games against Notre Dame and Penn State.