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Which P5’s would move given the chance?
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Blue76 Offline
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Post: #1
Which P5’s would move given the chance?
If we forget GOR restrictions who would and who wouldn’t move if offered the chance to move from one P5 to another.

For this we can ignore the usual little brother debates, so Oklahoma can move regardless of OSU etc

Would any SEC consider moving (Missouri to Big Ten?)

I can’t see anyone leaving Big Ten

Big XII we have to assume Texas and Oklahoma would be welcomed by every other conference but are currently happy to stay, but Iowa State would surely jump to Big Ten and West Virginia to ACC or indeed SEC or Big Ten.

What about the PAC 12 would anyone leave?

ACC you would imagine UNC and Duke won’t move, but Clemson, FSU might if the SEC offered and would the northern teams prefer Big Ten?
06-17-2021 01:08 PM
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whittx Offline
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RE: Which P5’s would move given the chance?
[quote='Blue76' pid='17470404' dateline='1623953296']
If we forget GOR restrictions who would and who wouldn’t move if offered the chance to move from one P5 to another.

For this we can ignore the usual little brother debates, so Oklahoma can move regardless of OSU etc

Would any SEC consider moving (Missouri to Big Ten?)

I can’t see anyone leaving Big Ten

Big XII we have to assume Texas and Oklahoma would be welcomed by every other conference but are currently happy to stay, but Iowa State would surely jump to Big Ten and West Virginia to ACC or indeed SEC or Big Ten.

What about the PAC 12 would anyone leave?

ACC you would imagine UNC and Duke won’t move, but Clemson, FSU might if the SEC offered and would the northern teams prefer Big Ten?
NC State or UVA would jump on the B1G in a heartbeat.
06-17-2021 01:25 PM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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RE: Which P5’s would move given the chance?
No one from the SEC or B1G would leave, but I'd imagine a majority of the ACC and Big 12 would leave for either conference if given the chance. The brand and financial value would both alone be worth it. (I am in no way saying that the feeling would be mutual, but from those members' side, I could see many of them jumping if given the opportunity).

The PAC is an interesting case. Outside of Utah, Colorado, Arizona and Arizona State, I cannot see any of the West Coast schools ever consider leaving just due to geography. Even for those four schools, the academic associations with the PAC is greater than the Big 12. I think the PAC is very solid in membership long-term.
06-17-2021 01:32 PM
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schmolik Online
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RE: Which P5’s would move given the chance?
Assuming money isn't a factor and schools are moving for better geographic/cultural fits only...

Pittsburgh: Big Ten (be with Penn State and other Northern schools)
Clemson: SEC
Florida State: SEC
Missouri: Big Ten or Big 12 (do they associate more with Texas/Oklahoma or Michigan/Ohio State)?
West Virginia: They don't really fit in any of the other conferences culturally, geographically probably the ACC.
06-17-2021 01:53 PM
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bill dazzle Offline
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RE: Which P5’s would move given the chance?
(06-17-2021 01:53 PM)schmolik Wrote:  Assuming money isn't a factor and schools are moving for better geographic/cultural fits only...

Pittsburgh: Big Ten (be with Penn State and other Northern schools)
Clemson: SEC
Florida State: SEC
Missouri: Big Ten or Big 12 (do they associate more with Texas/Oklahoma or Michigan/Ohio State)?
West Virginia: They don't really fit in any of the other conferences culturally, geographically probably the ACC.

With your hypothetical considerations ...

... Vanderbilt would likely move to the ACC. As a Vandy fan, I would enjoy that. But it's not going to happen.
06-17-2021 01:59 PM
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bill dazzle Offline
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RE: Which P5’s would move given the chance?
Another one:

Though UConn is not a member of a P5, it would leave the Big East (a power men's hoops league) for the ACC if invited.
06-17-2021 02:00 PM
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goofus Offline
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RE: Which P5’s would move given the chance?
I propose a 4-way trade

Mizzou --> Big Ten
Neb --> Big 12
WV. ---> ACC
Lou. ---> SEC
06-17-2021 02:06 PM
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schmolik Online
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RE: Which P5’s would move given the chance?
(06-17-2021 01:59 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(06-17-2021 01:53 PM)schmolik Wrote:  Assuming money isn't a factor and schools are moving for better geographic/cultural fits only...

Pittsburgh: Big Ten (be with Penn State and other Northern schools)
Clemson: SEC
Florida State: SEC
Missouri: Big Ten or Big 12 (do they associate more with Texas/Oklahoma or Michigan/Ohio State)?
West Virginia: They don't really fit in any of the other conferences culturally, geographically probably the ACC.

With your hypothetical considerations ...

... Vanderbilt would likely move to the ACC. As a Vandy fan, I would enjoy that. But it's not going to happen.

Geographically Vanderbilt definitely belongs in the SEC. Academically/culturally they are the only private school in the SEC but then again so is Northwestern in the Big Ten. Also Vandy has been an SEC member for years, that would be a tough bond to break. I had thought the same about Kentucky "upgrading" to the ACC for men's basketball (assuming Louisville stays) but historically they've been the SEC for years and they also have a strong rivalry with Tennessee (and Vanderbilt also has the same with Tennessee). I don't see it. If Vanderbilt does move for academic/cultural reasons, the Big Ten is also another option, assuming Northwestern stays. Nashville is 539 miles from Raleigh but only 474 miles from Chicago.

If Kentucky is locked into the SEC, Louisville is better off going there.
06-17-2021 02:16 PM
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Mav Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Which P5’s would move given the chance?
If Texas would jump from the Big 12 then Nebraska would have a very serious talk about leaving the B1G for the XII. The money's been nice but the move has been an utter disaster on the fields and courts. The fans would want it. They're extremely unhappy with the B1G for reasons that aren't even involving Kevin Warren. They just trust Texas less than him.
06-17-2021 02:41 PM
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JHS55 Offline
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RE: Which P5’s would move given the chance?
mybe arkansas would move to the AAC for a much better chance at a conference championship and a playoff seat...
06-17-2021 02:46 PM
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PicksUp Offline
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RE: Which P5’s would move given the chance?
(06-17-2021 02:41 PM)Mav Wrote:  If Texas would jump from the Big 12 then Nebraska would have a very serious talk about leaving the B1G for the XII. The money's been nice but the move has been an utter disaster on the fields and courts. The fans would want it. They're extremely unhappy with the B1G for reasons that aren't even involving Kevin Warren. They just trust Texas less than him.

Cowards. They got tired of getting owned by Texas. In more than one way.
06-17-2021 02:53 PM
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Erictelevision Offline
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RE: Which P5’s would move given the chance?
Goofus: that trade is PERFECT!

GW: Is Utah of similiar academic prestige to the Original PAC-10 schools? I know CU is.
06-17-2021 02:57 PM
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Statefan Offline
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RE: Which P5’s would move given the chance?
(06-17-2021 01:25 PM)whittx Wrote:  [quote='Blue76' pid='17470404' dateline='1623953296']
If we forget GOR restrictions who would and who wouldn’t move if offered the chance to move from one P5 to another.

For this we can ignore the usual little brother debates, so Oklahoma can move regardless of OSU etc

Would any SEC consider moving (Missouri to Big Ten?)

I can’t see anyone leaving Big Ten

Big XII we have to assume Texas and Oklahoma would be welcomed by every other conference but are currently happy to stay, but Iowa State would surely jump to Big Ten and West Virginia to ACC or indeed SEC or Big Ten.

What about the PAC 12 would anyone leave?

ACC you would imagine UNC and Duke won’t move, but Clemson, FSU might if the SEC offered and would the northern teams prefer Big Ten?
NC State or UVA would jump on the B1G in a heartbeat.

No UVa does not desire to be in the Big 10. If they did, they would be there.

You need a push as well as a pull to change conferences. Nothing is pushing Syracuse or Pitt away from the ACC so the only draw is money and Penn State. That pull might be enough. The push for NC State is to get out from under the local governing cabal. You trade one set of ******** for another, but at least these ******** would be in Ann Arbor and Columbus not Chapel Hill and Durham.

When it comes to Clemson and FSU some of their folks have a hell of a lot more mouth than pull with the Clemson or FSU board. A move to the SEC is going to put an average of one more loss per year on them - that's the difference between playing for the National Championship and playing in a meaningless NY6 Bowl.
(This post was last modified: 06-17-2021 03:08 PM by Statefan.)
06-17-2021 03:01 PM
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Mav Offline
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RE: Which P5’s would move given the chance?
(06-17-2021 02:53 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  
(06-17-2021 02:41 PM)Mav Wrote:  If Texas would jump from the Big 12 then Nebraska would have a very serious talk about leaving the B1G for the XII. The money's been nice but the move has been an utter disaster on the fields and courts. The fans would want it. They're extremely unhappy with the B1G for reasons that aren't even involving Kevin Warren. They just trust Texas less than him.

Cowards. They got tired of getting owned by Texas. In more than one way.
Having a commissioner that wears burnt orange underwear to work every day will do that to a fanbase.
06-17-2021 03:15 PM
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schmolik Online
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RE: Which P5’s would move given the chance?
(06-17-2021 02:57 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Goofus: that trade is PERFECT!

GW: Is Utah of similiar academic prestige to the Original PAC-10 schools? I know CU is.

As of 2021, Utah is ranked in the top 100 of the USN&WR rankings. They are tied with Arizona and ahead of Arizona State, Colorado, Oregon, Oregon State, and Washington State.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-co...t-colleges

Washington State (176)
Oregon State (153)
Arizona State (103)
Colorado (103)
Oregon (103)
Arizona (97)
Utah (97)

Utah also joined the AAU in 2019. Only the "___ State" schools are not AAU members among Pac-12 schools.
06-17-2021 03:15 PM
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schmolik Online
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RE: Which P5’s would move given the chance?
At least when it comes to football, as a Northeasterner I feel unwelcome by all of the P5 conferences. The Big 10 considers Maryland and Rutgers and to some degree even Penn State as outsiders for being Easterners. I'm sure some Big 10'ers accept Nebraska more than Penn State even though PSU is way closer to Columbus and Ann Arbor than Lincoln is because Nebraska is "Midwestern" (whatever that really means). And old school ACC fans feel Syracuse and Pittsburgh are too northern. In reality, the true ideal conference for Penn State, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Boston College, etc. would be a "Northeastern" conference but none really materialized (the Big East but Penn State never joined although Miami did).

Now in terms of regions the Big Ten has always defined the Midwest (or at least the Great Lakes area with the old Big 8 the Great Plains area), the Pac-8/10/12 the West Coast, the SEC the Southeast, and the ACC the Atlantic Coast (Florida State's rise blurred the SEC/ACC lines). In men's basketball the Northeast used to have the Big East. The drawback of the old Big East is they were dominated by private schools as opposed to flagship state schools and a majority of them did not sponsor football like schools in the other conferences/areas. Technically the Northeast had two kind of major conferences in the 80's, the Big East and the Atlantic 10 which had Penn State, Temple, Rutgers, West Virginia, Massachusetts, and other schools. We know Penn State applied and was rejected by the Big East. I don't know what rhyme or reason there was as to which schools were in the Big East and which schools were in the Atlantic 10 but if the Big East (or Atlantic 10) could have taken the "strongest" Northeastern schools maybe it is the Big Ten or SEC of the Northeast. I believe John Madden once said if you have two quarterbacks you really have no quarterbacks. The Big East and Atlantic 10 split the top Northeast schools and in the end neither wound up a strong Northeastern conference. The Big East should never have to depend on Creighton to survive.

The makeup of the 1980's Big East and Atlantic 10 is interesting:

Big East:
Public: Pittsburgh, Connecticut
Catholic: Villanova, Georgetown, Seton Hall, St. John's, Providence, Boston College
Private Non Catholic: Syracuse

Atlantic 10:
Public: Penn State, Temple, Rutgers, West Virginia, Massachusetts, Rhode Island
Catholic: St. Joseph's, Duquesne, St. Bonaventure
Private Non Catholic: George Washington

You could have had a "Big East" of all nine Catholic universities and the Atlantic 10 would have had all of the public universities and the two private non Catholics. The only FBS football member of the Catholic conference would have been BC with PSU, Pitt, Syr, WV, Temp, and Rut in the other one (and they could've picked up BC for football). Duquesne would have replaced Pittsburgh as the Big East's presence in Pittsburgh and St. Bonaventure for Upstate New York (I know that's a horrible trade but the Big East lost Syracuse and Pittsburgh eventually and maybe St. Bonnie and Duquesne are still in the Big East today and would have built their programs better than they did in the A-10). Not having Penn State and Pittsburgh in the same conference hurts the Northeast and Pennsylvania today. If the "Atlantic 10" existed today, Temple would still be separated from Villanova (and St. Joseph's) but would at least still be with two in state schools. Also, could you imagine where St. Joseph's would be in the same conference as Villanova? They and the old Northeast A-10 schools are the biggest losers. At least Villanova, Georgetown, Seton Hall, St. John's, and Providence are in somewhat of a decent men's basketball conference. St. Joe's had Penn State and Temple leave and are stuck with Fordham.
06-17-2021 04:56 PM
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Erictelevision Offline
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RE: Which P5’s would move given the chance?
Schmolik: thanks for the Utah USNWR list! 97 to 103 is insignificant gap IMO.

I know you probably meant this but: Not only are 'cuse and GW not Catholic, they're completely secular AFAIK.
06-17-2021 05:21 PM
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RE: Which P5’s would move given the chance?
(06-17-2021 02:57 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Goofus: that trade is PERFECT!

GW: Is Utah of similiar academic prestige to the Original PAC-10 schools? I know CU is.

Yes, though perhaps similar to different Original PAC-10 schools ... Colorado is 44th worldwide (27th US) in the Shanghai list (AWRU), so slotting in between the California schools plus Washington and the rest, while Utah is in the 101-150 worldwide tier, with Arizona and ASU. From the Original PAC-8 schools, Oregon State is in the 201-300 tier, Oregon and Wazzu in the 301-400 tier.
06-18-2021 12:11 AM
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