(06-23-2021 09:01 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 08:31 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  The KRM Quad ladies and gentlemen.

Where there are musings as to "Was slavery really that bad?" and the possibility of reparations to the descendants of slave-OWNERS is bandied about.

Think of all those poor slave owners who lost out on their livelihood based on owning another human beings...

My god, think of all those great industrialists who relied on children for work!

The point made by those who favor reparations for blacks is that for some, maybe they are owed because they possibly could be better off now if their forebears had not suffered injustices.

Same for for the descendants of bad people, is it not? I have always speculated where I might be today had some of my ancestors made better choices. Maybe I would be King Bernardo VI of the Kingdom of South Texas. Surely I deserve some compensation for the loss of my kingship. Now my ancestor, Bernardo I, (real person, BTW) was by all accounts a bad guy. He poisoned his partner in the revolution and bragged about it. But that has nothing to do with my losses. I am owed for my loss. You need to compensate me.

(06-23-2021 09:11 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 09:03 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 09:01 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 08:31 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  The KRM Quad ladies and gentlemen.

Where there are musings as to "Was slavery really that bad?" and the possibility of reparations to the descendants of slave-OWNERS is bandied about.

Think of all those poor slave owners who lost out on their livelihood based on owning another human beings...

My god, think of all those great industrialists who relied on children for work!

Histrionic for repeating was others said? OK...

What was being asked had the term 'at that time' very much implied. So repeating it without that context and in the context you did absolutely was, My Friend.

I assumed the "at the time" given that has been the topic at hand not to mention the fact that nobody is considering owning slaves in 2021.

(06-23-2021 08:08 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 08:02 AM)MerseyOwl Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 06:52 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 05:58 AM)MerseyOwl Wrote:  I think the Task Force is holding back.

I'd like to see them fully embrace the precept of 'damnatio memoriae'.

The main problem I see is whether to rename the institution as "The University at Sunset Boulevard and Main Street" or "The University near the Texas Medical Center" or maybe "The University across from Hermann Park".

"The Formerly Racist University in South Houston" would include the historical data that seems to be important.

You do realise that South Houston is a municipality?

Maybe "The Formerly Racist University South of Downtown Houston".

The important part is that we change the name to "formerly racist". How about "the Formerly Racist University formerly named after a racist MFer"?

I can hardly wait to exchange my degree for a full disclosure degree. The current one has been disgracing my wall for over 50 years.

"Formerly Racist" would not pass muster with the wokesters at all. Best you probably could get would be "Formerly Overtly Racist and Perpetually Systemically Racist."

Quick question for 93 and lad:


How many of your clothes and shoes are Chinese made?

Do you only use electronic devices that are not made in China?

Considering how you two are so invested in making sure that there is no consideration over time on the issue, and that owning a very small handful at the time (nonetheless by default of a loan) --- since you two are in such an absolute lather over the implications of those actions 160 years ago, how strongly do your SJW chops bleed over from that action and attitude from 160 years ago to the wholesale slave labor concept practiced currently?

(06-23-2021 09:19 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 09:11 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 09:03 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 09:01 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 08:31 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  The KRM Quad ladies and gentlemen.

Where there are musings as to "Was slavery really that bad?" and the possibility of reparations to the descendants of slave-OWNERS is bandied about.

Think of all those poor slave owners who lost out on their livelihood based on owning another human beings...

My god, think of all those great industrialists who relied on children for work!

Histrionic for repeating was others said? OK...

What was being asked had the term 'at that time' very much implied. So repeating it without that context and in the context you did absolutely was, My Friend.

I assumed the "at the time" given that has been the topic at hand not to mention the fact that nobody is considering owning slaves in 2021.

The issue is the viewpoint on slavery and how different that viewpoint is between say, 1850 and now.

And yes, that viewpoint has changed dramatically.

Kind of like how the viewpoint on the 1st Amendment from the left has changed dramatically over the last decade or less.

Kind of like how the viewpoint on women voting changed dramatically between 1790 and the early 1900s.

So yes, your comment loses that pretty much in toto.

Morality is a function of society, my friend. Different times mean different societal norms. Different times means different moralities.

Basic sociology. Something that seems to escape your view.

(06-23-2021 09:26 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Quick question for 93 and lad:


How many of your clothes and shoes are Chinese made?

Do you only use electronic devices that are not made in China?

Considering how you two are so invested in making sure that there is no consideration over time on the issue, and that owning a very small handful at the time (nonetheless by default of a loan) --- since you two are in such an absolute lather over the implications of those actions 160 years ago, how strongly do your SJW chops bleed over from that action and attitude from 160 years ago to the wholesale slave labor concept practiced currently?

Acquiescing to the calls for a plaque on the statue doesn't really feel like I'm in a lather, TBH. I won't speak for Lad on this one. You act is if we're on the front lines with a hunger strike calling for the statue to be disappeared.

(06-23-2021 09:23 AM)illiniowl Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 08:08 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 08:02 AM)MerseyOwl Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 06:52 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 05:58 AM)MerseyOwl Wrote:  I think the Task Force is holding back.

I'd like to see them fully embrace the precept of 'damnatio memoriae'.

The main problem I see is whether to rename the institution as "The University at Sunset Boulevard and Main Street" or "The University near the Texas Medical Center" or maybe "The University across from Hermann Park".

"The Formerly Racist University in South Houston" would include the historical data that seems to be important.

You do realise that South Houston is a municipality?

Maybe "The Formerly Racist University South of Downtown Houston".

The important part is that we change the name to "formerly racist". How about "the Formerly Racist University formerly named after a racist MFer"?

I can hardly wait to exchange my degree for a full disclosure degree. The current one has been disgracing my wall for over 50 years.

"Formerly Racist" would not pass muster with the wokesters at all. Best you probably could get would be "Formerly Overtly Racist and Perpetually Systemically Racist."

You're right. I hope I can make to the burning of the racist (the ones that say Rice) degrees.

(06-23-2021 09:36 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 09:26 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Quick question for 93 and lad:


How many of your clothes and shoes are Chinese made?

Do you only use electronic devices that are not made in China?

Considering how you two are so invested in making sure that there is no consideration over time on the issue, and that owning a very small handful at the time (nonetheless by default of a loan) --- since you two are in such an absolute lather over the implications of those actions 160 years ago, how strongly do your SJW chops bleed over from that action and attitude from 160 years ago to the wholesale slave labor concept practiced currently?

Acquiescing to the calls for a plaque on the statue doesn't really feel like I'm in a lather, TBH. I won't speak for Lad on this one. You act is if we're on the front lines with a hunger strike calling for the statue to be disappeared.

What would the plaque say?
Plaques tend to have limited words.

Why not limit it to what is apparently most germane:
“Once owned 15 slaves.” or…
“Once legally owned 15 slaves.” or….
“Once legally, and morally by 1850s(?) standards, owned slaves.” or….
“Once legally, but immorally by today’s standards, owned slaves.”

(06-23-2021 09:50 AM)MerseyOwl Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 09:36 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 09:26 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Quick question for 93 and lad:


How many of your clothes and shoes are Chinese made?

Do you only use electronic devices that are not made in China?

Considering how you two are so invested in making sure that there is no consideration over time on the issue, and that owning a very small handful at the time (nonetheless by default of a loan) --- since you two are in such an absolute lather over the implications of those actions 160 years ago, how strongly do your SJW chops bleed over from that action and attitude from 160 years ago to the wholesale slave labor concept practiced currently?

Acquiescing to the calls for a plaque on the statue doesn't really feel like I'm in a lather, TBH. I won't speak for Lad on this one. You act is if we're on the front lines with a hunger strike calling for the statue to be disappeared.

What would the plaque say?
Plaques tend to have limited words.

Why not limit it to what is apparently most germane:
“Once owned 15 slaves.” or…
“Once legally owned 15 slaves.” or….
“Once legally, and morally by 1850s(?) standards, owned slaves.” or….
“Once legally, but immorally by today’s standards, owned slaves.”

How about just "white devil"?

(06-23-2021 09:51 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 09:50 AM)MerseyOwl Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 09:36 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 09:26 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Quick question for 93 and lad:


How many of your clothes and shoes are Chinese made?

Do you only use electronic devices that are not made in China?

Considering how you two are so invested in making sure that there is no consideration over time on the issue, and that owning a very small handful at the time (nonetheless by default of a loan) --- since you two are in such an absolute lather over the implications of those actions 160 years ago, how strongly do your SJW chops bleed over from that action and attitude from 160 years ago to the wholesale slave labor concept practiced currently?

Acquiescing to the calls for a plaque on the statue doesn't really feel like I'm in a lather, TBH. I won't speak for Lad on this one. You act is if we're on the front lines with a hunger strike calling for the statue to be disappeared.

What would the plaque say?
Plaques tend to have limited words.

Why not limit it to what is apparently most germane:
“Once owned 15 slaves.” or…
“Once legally owned 15 slaves.” or….
“Once legally, and morally by 1850s(?) standards, owned slaves.” or….
“Once legally, but immorally by today’s standards, owned slaves.”

How about just "white devil"?

Well it would be the most cost effective if one is charged by the letter.

(06-23-2021 09:36 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 09:26 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Quick question for 93 and lad:


How many of your clothes and shoes are Chinese made?

Do you only use electronic devices that are not made in China?

Considering how you two are so invested in making sure that there is no consideration over time on the issue, and that owning a very small handful at the time (nonetheless by default of a loan) --- since you two are in such an absolute lather over the implications of those actions 160 years ago, how strongly do your SJW chops bleed over from that action and attitude from 160 years ago to the wholesale slave labor concept practiced currently?

Acquiescing to the calls for a plaque on the statue doesn't really feel like I'm in a lather, TBH. I won't speak for Lad on this one. You act is if we're on the front lines with a hunger strike calling for the statue to be disappeared.

Typical Tanq hyperbole... Confusing you and I for those who are actually leading the charge for this kind of change.

I've already stated I'm against moving the statue, for **** sake.

(06-23-2021 09:36 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 09:26 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Quick question for 93 and lad:


How many of your clothes and shoes are Chinese made?

Do you only use electronic devices that are not made in China?

Considering how you two are so invested in making sure that there is no consideration over time on the issue, and that owning a very small handful at the time (nonetheless by default of a loan) --- since you two are in such an absolute lather over the implications of those actions 160 years ago, how strongly do your SJW chops bleed over from that action and attitude from 160 years ago to the wholesale slave labor concept practiced currently?

Acquiescing to the calls for a plaque on the statue doesn't really feel like I'm in a lather, TBH. I won't speak for Lad on this one. You act is if we're on the front lines with a hunger strike calling for the statue to be disappeared.

And you avoid the real question with that. Got it.

You *are* in a lather about the morality of slavery, mind you. No one disagrees what the morality of today is, my good sir. The issue at question is 'at the time' -- and you have come out with a (fairly sloppy) answer that intermingles today's viewpoint and avoids completely the issue that is at the forefront in a temporal sense.

But, since you are so invested as to the morality of slavery in both timeframes, I think we should know if you are equally invested in the mass slavery that is occurring right now.

You are razor quick to chastise people on this board for the temerity to discuss the issue of 'what was the moral view then' -- fundamentally razor quick to the point of noting things in a somewhat way too broad manner.

Consdidering that, I think it appropriate to know your personal actions on current day mass state sanctioned slavery. That is, as opposed to fixate on the word 'lather' as you do above.

Please answer the two questions at the top of my first post above, please.

(06-23-2021 09:50 AM)MerseyOwl Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 09:36 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 09:26 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Quick question for 93 and lad:


How many of your clothes and shoes are Chinese made?

Do you only use electronic devices that are not made in China?

Considering how you two are so invested in making sure that there is no consideration over time on the issue, and that owning a very small handful at the time (nonetheless by default of a loan) --- since you two are in such an absolute lather over the implications of those actions 160 years ago, how strongly do your SJW chops bleed over from that action and attitude from 160 years ago to the wholesale slave labor concept practiced currently?

Acquiescing to the calls for a plaque on the statue doesn't really feel like I'm in a lather, TBH. I won't speak for Lad on this one. You act is if we're on the front lines with a hunger strike calling for the statue to be disappeared.

What would the plaque say?
Plaques tend to have limited words.

Why not limit it to what is apparently most germane:
“Once owned 15 slaves.” or…
“Once legally owned 15 slaves.” or….
“Once legally, and morally by 1850s(?) standards, owned slaves.” or….
“Once legally, but immorally by today’s standards, owned slaves.”

My hope is it would discuss his life/death, how he made his money, and the good that he did with said money. Included in this would be a description of how he was a product of the times and owned slaves. I'd like it to also explain why the Rice charter was whites only.

In addition to the focus on WMR, I'd like Rice to include some sort of recognition of the strides made in with respect to diversity and inclusion on campus and highlight accomplishments of POC graduates.

(06-23-2021 10:07 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 09:36 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 09:26 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Quick question for 93 and lad:


How many of your clothes and shoes are Chinese made?

Do you only use electronic devices that are not made in China?

Considering how you two are so invested in making sure that there is no consideration over time on the issue, and that owning a very small handful at the time (nonetheless by default of a loan) --- since you two are in such an absolute lather over the implications of those actions 160 years ago, how strongly do your SJW chops bleed over from that action and attitude from 160 years ago to the wholesale slave labor concept practiced currently?

Acquiescing to the calls for a plaque on the statue doesn't really feel like I'm in a lather, TBH. I won't speak for Lad on this one. You act is if we're on the front lines with a hunger strike calling for the statue to be disappeared.

And you avoid the real question with that. Got it.

Uh... yes... I don't check to see if my shoes were made in China or not.

Quote:You *are* in a lather about the morality of slavery, mind you. No one disagrees what the morality of today is, my good sir. The issue at question is 'at the time' -- and you have come out with a (fairly sloppy) answer that intermingles today's viewpoint and avoids completely the issue that is at the forefront in a temporal sense.

Still not in a lather but thanks.

Quote:But, since you are so invested as to the morality of slavery in both timeframes, I think we should know if you are equally invested in the mass slavery that is occurring right now.

My wearing shoes made in China = owning black people in the late 1800s?

(06-23-2021 10:08 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 09:50 AM)MerseyOwl Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 09:36 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 09:26 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Quick question for 93 and lad:


How many of your clothes and shoes are Chinese made?

Do you only use electronic devices that are not made in China?

Considering how you two are so invested in making sure that there is no consideration over time on the issue, and that owning a very small handful at the time (nonetheless by default of a loan) --- since you two are in such an absolute lather over the implications of those actions 160 years ago, how strongly do your SJW chops bleed over from that action and attitude from 160 years ago to the wholesale slave labor concept practiced currently?

Acquiescing to the calls for a plaque on the statue doesn't really feel like I'm in a lather, TBH. I won't speak for Lad on this one. You act is if we're on the front lines with a hunger strike calling for the statue to be disappeared.

What would the plaque say?
Plaques tend to have limited words.

Why not limit it to what is apparently most germane:
“Once owned 15 slaves.” or…
“Once legally owned 15 slaves.” or….
“Once legally, and morally by 1850s(?) standards, owned slaves.” or….
“Once legally, but immorally by today’s standards, owned slaves.”

My hope is it would discuss his life/death, how he made his money, and the good that he did with said money. Included in this would be a description of how he was a product of the times and owned slaves. I'd like it to also explain why the Rice charter was whites only.

In addition to the focus on WMR, I'd like Rice to include some sort of recognition of the strides made in with respect to diversity and inclusion on campus and highlight accomplishments of POC graduates.

So you want it to say "white devil"? QED.

(06-23-2021 10:04 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 09:36 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 09:26 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Quick question for 93 and lad:


How many of your clothes and shoes are Chinese made?

Do you only use electronic devices that are not made in China?

Considering how you two are so invested in making sure that there is no consideration over time on the issue, and that owning a very small handful at the time (nonetheless by default of a loan) --- since you two are in such an absolute lather over the implications of those actions 160 years ago, how strongly do your SJW chops bleed over from that action and attitude from 160 years ago to the wholesale slave labor concept practiced currently?

Acquiescing to the calls for a plaque on the statue doesn't really feel like I'm in a lather, TBH. I won't speak for Lad on this one. You act is if we're on the front lines with a hunger strike calling for the statue to be disappeared.

Typical Tanq hyperbole... Confusing you and I for those who are actually leading the charge for this kind of change.

I've already stated I'm against moving the statue, for **** sake.

Typical lad reading problem/ stating something that really isnt in existence.

I dont see claiming you are for or against 'moving the statue'. For *****s sake; to repeat your complaint.

Fine non-sequitor, mind you.

I *am* asking you based on your own responses in this friggin thread, dude.

(06-23-2021 10:12 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 10:07 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  You *are* in a lather about the morality of slavery, mind you. No one disagrees what the morality of today is, my good sir. The issue at question is 'at the time' -- and you have come out with a (fairly sloppy) answer that intermingles today's viewpoint and avoids completely the issue that is at the forefront in a temporal sense.

Still not in a lather but thanks.

Here are some words on the subject:

Quote:Where there are musings as to "Was slavery really that bad?" and the possibility of reparations to the descendants of slave-OWNERS is bandied about.

Yes, you seem amazingly non-plussed in that segment.

Quote:

Quote:But, since you are so invested as to the morality of slavery in both timeframes, I think we should know if you are equally invested in the mass slavery that is occurring right now.

My wearing shoes made in China = owning black people in the late 1800s?

I guess you are unaware of a whole slew of current events.

(06-23-2021 10:13 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 10:04 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 09:36 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 09:26 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Quick question for 93 and lad:


How many of your clothes and shoes are Chinese made?

Do you only use electronic devices that are not made in China?

Considering how you two are so invested in making sure that there is no consideration over time on the issue, and that owning a very small handful at the time (nonetheless by default of a loan) --- since you two are in such an absolute lather over the implications of those actions 160 years ago, how strongly do your SJW chops bleed over from that action and attitude from 160 years ago to the wholesale slave labor concept practiced currently?

Acquiescing to the calls for a plaque on the statue doesn't really feel like I'm in a lather, TBH. I won't speak for Lad on this one. You act is if we're on the front lines with a hunger strike calling for the statue to be disappeared.

Typical Tanq hyperbole... Confusing you and I for those who are actually leading the charge for this kind of change.

I've already stated I'm against moving the statue, for **** sake.

Typical lad reading problem/ stating something that really isnt in existence.

I dont see claiming you are for or against 'moving the statue'. For *****s sake to repeat you.

Fine non-sequitor, mind you.

I *am* asking you based on your own responses in this friggin thread, dude.

I've made multiple posts saying I was not supportive of moving the statue - and given that it is on the table and many are clamoring for it, my opposition to it should be a clear sign that I'm not "in an absolute lather." See post 749 of the other thread for the most clear comment (https://csnbbs.com/thread-905029-post-17...id17475524)

"This is one of the other reasons I'm against moving the statue. My understanding is it is his tomb."

(06-23-2021 10:17 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 10:12 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 10:07 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  You *are* in a lather about the morality of slavery, mind you. No one disagrees what the morality of today is, my good sir. The issue at question is 'at the time' -- and you have come out with a (fairly sloppy) answer that intermingles today's viewpoint and avoids completely the issue that is at the forefront in a temporal sense.

Still not in a lather but thanks.

Here are some words on the subject:

Quote:Where there are musings as to "Was slavery really that bad?" and the possibility of reparations to the descendants of slave-OWNERS is bandied about.

Yes, you seem amazingly non-plussed in that segment.

Quote:

Quote:But, since you are so invested as to the morality of slavery in both timeframes, I think we should know if you are equally invested in the mass slavery that is occurring right now.

My wearing shoes made in China = owning black people in the late 1800s?

I guess you are unaware of a whole slew of current events.

So yes?

Do you wear any shoes made in China? I was under the impression that Nike had addressed this issue due to all the fallout from years back. I should probably be more on top of the situation... perhaps it is a bit of a lazy "don't ask questions that you don't want answers to" from me.

(06-23-2021 10:22 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 10:13 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 10:04 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 09:36 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 09:26 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Quick question for 93 and lad:


How many of your clothes and shoes are Chinese made?

Do you only use electronic devices that are not made in China?

Considering how you two are so invested in making sure that there is no consideration over time on the issue, and that owning a very small handful at the time (nonetheless by default of a loan) --- since you two are in such an absolute lather over the implications of those actions 160 years ago, how strongly do your SJW chops bleed over from that action and attitude from 160 years ago to the wholesale slave labor concept practiced currently?

Acquiescing to the calls for a plaque on the statue doesn't really feel like I'm in a lather, TBH. I won't speak for Lad on this one. You act is if we're on the front lines with a hunger strike calling for the statue to be disappeared.

Typical Tanq hyperbole... Confusing you and I for those who are actually leading the charge for this kind of change.

I've already stated I'm against moving the statue, for **** sake.

Typical lad reading problem/ stating something that really isnt in existence.

I dont see claiming you are for or against 'moving the statue'. For *****s sake to repeat you.

Fine non-sequitor, mind you.

I *am* asking you based on your own responses in this friggin thread, dude.

I've made multiple posts saying I was not supportive of moving the statue - and given that it is on the table and many are clamoring for it, my opposition to it should be a clear sign that I'm not "in an absolute lather." See post 749 of the other thread for the most clear comment (https://csnbbs.com/thread-905029-post-17...id17475524)

"This is one of the other reasons I'm against moving the statue. My understanding is it is his tomb."

I havent stated that you have in this thread, lad. Good grief fing read.