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WAC FBS - Later rather than sooner
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Bronco85 Offline
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Post: #61
RE: WAC FBS - Later rather than sooner
This has nothing to do with the outcome, but did NMSU pay Tarleton for the game. I.E. money game. Can anyone show me an instance where a FCS school played at a FBS school and it wasn't a money game? I can assure you FCS upsets of FBS schools happen almost every year. In some cases it is less of an upset than others but don't tell that to the FBS school that lost.
[/quote]


The University of Idaho, while they were FBS, played their former and future Big Sky Conference mate (and FCS member) Montana, in a 4 year home and home arrangement. UI lost all 4 games including in Pullman, WA, once in Moscow, and twice in Missoula. UM makes more money on home gate receipts in one game than the Vandals make in nearly a full season. These were certainly not "money games" for UM. UI also hosted Eastern Washington twice when these teams were in different subdivisions and lost both games. Whenever you ask a question about unlikely or odd circumstances in D1 football, the answer is likely to be "the University of Idaho".
(This post was last modified: 06-14-2021 10:14 AM by Bronco85.)
06-14-2021 09:56 AM
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Bronco85 Offline
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Post: #62
RE: WAC FBS - Later rather than sooner
[
The new members can make fun of how bad the WAC is all you want, but you are the ones who wanted in...
[/quote]

I am not making fun of how bad the WAC is, just pointing out facts. I believe you are the one saying that the new additions will not improve the WACs standing. I disagree and am giving factual points as to why.
[/quote]

The fact that the WAC, without football and with so many DII movers in their ranks, was able to successfully raid two established D1 conferences who have high quality FCS football is amazing to this long time WAC fan. It is the best (but in no way certain) evidence that there is some ambition to utilize the WAC as a gateway to FBS by some members. Whether or not these notions can come to fruition will be fascinating to watch. The fact that the WAC and ASUN went from the bottom rung of D1 conferences to leap frogging their way up the ladder in the manner they did is virtually without precedent. Way to go, WAC.
06-14-2021 10:11 AM
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FirstandGoal Offline
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Post: #63
RE: WAC FBS - Later rather than sooner
(06-14-2021 10:11 AM)Bronco85 Wrote:  [
The new members can make fun of how bad the WAC is all you want, but you are the ones who wanted in...

I am not making fun of how bad the WAC is, just pointing out facts. I believe you are the one saying that the new additions will not improve the WACs standing. I disagree and am giving factual points as to why.
[/quote]

The fact that the WAC, without football and with so many DII movers in their ranks, was able to successfully raid two established D1 conferences who have high quality FCS football is amazing to this long time WAC fan. It is the best (but in no way certain) evidence that there is some ambition to utilize the WAC as a gateway to FBS by some members. Whether or not these notions can come to fruition will be fascinating to watch. The fact that the WAC and ASUN went from the bottom rung of D1 conferences to leap frogging their way up the ladder in the manner they did is virtually without precedent. Way to go, WAC.
[/quote]

This fan of a new member doesn't intend to make fun of the WAC. Just pointing out to a few of the current posters on this board who claim the four members they got from the SLC won't necessarily improve the conference immediately, that the new members have a better recent (last ten years) NCAA tourney record than any of the current (pre-July 2021) members during that time frame. I am pretty sure that all four have played in at least one tourney game, even the current lowest ranked Lamar. Yes NMSU has multiple conference championships but that has not equated to better performance in the tourney.
(This post was last modified: 06-14-2021 10:44 AM by FirstandGoal.)
06-14-2021 10:41 AM
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Bronco85 Offline
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Post: #64
RE: WAC FBS - Later rather than sooner
(06-14-2021 10:41 AM)FirstandGoal Wrote:  
(06-14-2021 10:11 AM)Bronco85 Wrote:  [
The new members can make fun of how bad the WAC is all you want, but you are the ones who wanted in...

I am not making fun of how bad the WAC is, just pointing out facts. I believe you are the one saying that the new additions will not improve the WACs standing. I disagree and am giving factual points as to why.

The fact that the WAC, without football and with so many DII movers in their ranks, was able to successfully raid two established D1 conferences who have high quality FCS football is amazing to this long time WAC fan. It is the best (but in no way certain) evidence that there is some ambition to utilize the WAC as a gateway to FBS by some members. Whether or not these notions can come to fruition will be fascinating to watch. The fact that the WAC and ASUN went from the bottom rung of D1 conferences to leap frogging their way up the ladder in the manner they did is virtually without precedent. Way to go, WAC.
[/quote]

This fan of a new member doesn't intend to make fun of the WAC. Just pointing out to a few of the current posters on this board who claim the four members they got from the SLC won't necessarily improve the conference immediately, that the new members have a better recent (last ten years) NCAA tourney record than any of the current (pre-July 2021) members during that time frame. I am pretty sure that all four have played in at least one tourney game, even the current lowest ranked Lamar. Yes NMSU has multiple conference championships but that has not equated to better performance in the tourney.
[/quote]

Sorry, I did not mean to imply you were besmirching the WAC. I have been a WAC fan since the days when my school played in the Big Sky Conference and dreamed of someday being in the same division. The greatest athletic success for BSU arguably occurred while they were a member of the WAC. It is good to see the WAC is now out of "survive at all costs" mode to being able to be selective in their membership.
06-14-2021 11:08 AM
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PojoaquePosse Offline
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Post: #65
RE: WAC FBS - Later rather than sooner
It is ridiculous for anyone to say the new schools, plus the departure of ChiSt, won't make the WAC better. People are using artificial qualifiers like better than 15 in NET rankings or NCAA tourney wins. I think it is a fact that the WAC will be a stronger conference with the new additions.

It is also ridiculous to say NMSU does not play a tough OOC schedule. Not only do they play multiple P5 teams every year, they regularly beat said teams in the OOC.

This board is getting more and more ludicrous by the day. And it's literally 2-3 posters that are dragging it down. But those individuals have no self awareness to know they are a problem. They actually come here to state over the top opinions and start fights. I think most everyone else comes here for info and quality dialog, not to talk trash.
(This post was last modified: 06-14-2021 11:22 AM by PojoaquePosse.)
06-14-2021 11:17 AM
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Lopes87 Offline
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Post: #66
RE: WAC FBS - Later rather than sooner
(06-14-2021 11:17 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  It is ridiculous for anyone to say the new schools, plus the departure of ChiSt, won't make the WAC better. People are using artificial qualifiers like better than 15 in NET rankings or NCAA tourney wins. I think it is a fact that the WAC will be a stronger conference with the new additions.

It is also ridiculous to say NMSU does not play a tough OOC schedule. Not only do they play multiple P5 teams every year, they regularly beat said teams in the OOC.

This board is getting more and more ludicrous by the day. And it's literally 2-3 posters that are dragging it down. But those individuals have no self awareness to know they are a problem. They actually come here to state over the top opinions and start fights. I think most everyone else comes here for info and quality dialog, not to talk trash.

Ranking in net isn't something i'm to worked up about b/c that will works itself out over time. The WAC is getting healthy and that is the 1st step in working towards national respect.
06-14-2021 01:29 PM
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TexasTerror Offline
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Post: #67
RE: WAC FBS - Later rather than sooner
(06-14-2021 11:17 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  It is ridiculous for anyone to say the new schools, plus the departure of ChiSt, won't make the WAC better. People are using artificial qualifiers like better than 15 in NET rankings or NCAA tourney wins. I think it is a fact that the WAC will be a stronger conference with the new additions.

It is also ridiculous to say NMSU does not play a tough OOC schedule. Not only do they play multiple P5 teams every year, they regularly beat said teams in the OOC.

This board is getting more and more ludicrous by the day. And it's literally 2-3 posters that are dragging it down. But those individuals have no self awareness to know they are a problem. They actually come here to state over the top opinions and start fights. I think most everyone else comes here for info and quality dialog, not to talk trash.

Agreed!

As a fan of Sam Houston, it is really exciting for me to have my school in a conference where we can all celebrate as a collective the results (positive particularly) of the league in unison as we look for the schools, conference to better position itself in the mid-major landscape vs. anything our schools have been used to previously. It's for the benefit of the whole!
06-14-2021 01:37 PM
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DoubleRSU Offline
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Post: #68
RE: WAC FBS - Later rather than sooner
(06-14-2021 06:48 AM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  My glass I half full.

Fact: The WAC is adding schools with 3 year net ratings that will elevate the conference. Both ACU and SFA have recent tournament wins against top tier P5 teams.

Fact: Southern Utah is going to win the All Sports trophy in the Big Sky this year.

Fact: SFA, Sam Houston, and ACU will likely finish 1-2-3 in all sports race in the Southland, with Lamar at 8th out of 13 schools.

Fact:Sam Houston just won the FCS National Championship.

The new look WAC may not be what it was back in the day but it’s inconceivable that there are those who leave the impression that the WAC is treading water, taking on a bunch of Chicago State’s. And there is absolutely no evidence that any of these teams are simply biding their time awaiting an opportunity to move to a better conference.

To be clear: I’m not suggesting the new schools will dominate the WAC. I am saying there is ample evidence that the combined efforts of the new and existing schools will enhance the national profile of the league, particularly as California Baptist, Dixie (Utah Tech) and Tarleton complete the transition to D1. Enjoy the ride!

Well said.
06-14-2021 01:45 PM
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DoubleRSU Offline
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Post: #69
RE: WAC FBS - Later rather than sooner
(06-14-2021 01:37 PM)TexasTerror Wrote:  
(06-14-2021 11:17 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  It is ridiculous for anyone to say the new schools, plus the departure of ChiSt, won't make the WAC better. People are using artificial qualifiers like better than 15 in NET rankings or NCAA tourney wins. I think it is a fact that the WAC will be a stronger conference with the new additions.

It is also ridiculous to say NMSU does not play a tough OOC schedule. Not only do they play multiple P5 teams every year, they regularly beat said teams in the OOC.

This board is getting more and more ludicrous by the day. And it's literally 2-3 posters that are dragging it down. But those individuals have no self awareness to know they are a problem. They actually come here to state over the top opinions and start fights. I think most everyone else comes here for info and quality dialog, not to talk trash.

Agreed!

As a fan of Sam Houston, it is really exciting for me to have my school in a conference where we can all celebrate as a collective the results (positive particularly) of the league in unison as we look for the schools, conference to better position itself in the mid-major landscape vs. anything our schools have been used to previously. It's for the benefit of the whole!

I too am excited about the WAC. Yes, this thread was started in jest, but some people are on here are either ridiculous or just dumb. Maybe the WAC will be a FBS league in the future. Undetermined how long that will be, but it’s ridiculous for a few people to claim it’s “soon”.

It’s also ridiculous to think that a full member of the conference will be kicked out by the Texas schools. They cannot kick out Seattle U and SU isn’t leaving until they have another autobid conference lined up.

It’s also ridiculous for fans to be worried about the Texas schools dictating things and/or leaving if they don’t get their way. Where are they going to go to? Back to the Southland with Houston Baptist and some lesser D2 move ups?
06-14-2021 01:50 PM
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NMSUPistolPete Offline
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Post: #70
RE: WAC FBS - Later rather than sooner
This is the average BPI and RPI in basketball For the current schools participating in the WAC over the last 10 years... including those who recently left and those joining with the next two years.

BPI
New Mexico State... 87.6 (over a 10 years period)
Stephen F. Austin... 135.0 (over a 10 years period)
Grand Canyon... 181.5 (over a 8 years period)
Tarleton State... 188.0 (just one year)
Sam Houston State... 194.5 (over a 10 years period)
California Baptist... 200.0 (over a 3 year period)
Cal State Bakersfield... 202.4 (over a 10 years period)
Utah Valley... 225.9 (over a 10 years period)
Abilene Christian... 239.5 (over a 8 years period)
Seattle U... 243.5 (over a 10 years period)
Lamar... 253.3 (over a 10 years period)
UM Kansas City... 266.3 (over a 10 years period)
Southern Utah... 270.1 (over a 10 years period)
UT Rio Grande Valley... 290.7 (over a 10 years period)
Dixie State... 324.0 (just one year)
Chicago State... 336.9 (over a 10 years period)

RPI
New Mexico State... 85.1
Stephen F. Austin... 150.1
Grand Canyon... 176.8
Sam Houston State... 188.6
Abilene Christian... 206.8
Cal State Bakersfield... 212.8 - left to the BWC
Utah Valley... 213.5
Tarleton State... 231.0
California Baptist... 232.7
UM Kansas City... 256.7 - left to the Summit
Seattle U.... 260.7
Southern Utah... 263.2
Lamar... 264.9
UT Rio Grande Valley... 289.6
Dixie State... 317.0
Chicago State... 327.7 - leaving next year

Top 20 past RPI seasons by present, recently past and future WAC schools over last 10 years...

1. Stephen F. Austin... 35... 29-5... 2014-15... Lost to #19 Utah (57-61) in NCAA Round of 64
2. New Mexico State... 40... 28-6... 2017-18... Lost to #20 Clemson (68-79) in NCAA Round of 64
3. New Mexico State... 43... 30-5... 2018-19... Lost to #14 Auburn (77-78) in NCAA Round of 64
4T. New Mexico State... 57... 24-11... 2012-13... Lost to #13 Saint Louis in NCAA Round of 64
4T. Stephen F. Austin... 57... 32-3... 2013-14... Upset #24 VCU (77-75 OT); Lost to #20 UCLA (60-77) in NCAA Round of 32
6. New Mexico State... 60... 28-6... 2016-17... Lost to #12 Baylor (73-91) in NCAA Round of 64
7T. New Mexico State... 63... 26-10... 2011-12... Lost to #16 Indiana (66-79) in NCAA Round of 64
7T. Stephen F. Austin... 63... 28-3... 2019-20... No Post Season (COVID)
9. Abilene Christian... 66... 24-5... 2020-21... Upset #9 Texas (53-52); Lost to UCLA (47-67) in NCAA Round of 32
10. Utah Valley...... 68... 25-10... 2018-19... Lost to South Florida (57-66) in CBI Second Round
11. Stephen F. Austin... 70... 27-5... 2012-13... Lost to Stanford (57-58) in NCAA Round of 64.
12. Stephen F. Austin... 71... 28-6... 2015-16... Upset #8 West Virginia (70-56); Lost to Notre Dame (75-76) in Round of 32.
13T. New Mexico State... 77... 26-10... 2013-14... Lost to #13 San Diego State (69-73 OT) in NCAA Round of 64
13T. Cal State Bakersfield... 77... 25-10... 2016-17... Lost to Georgia Tech (61-76) in NIT Final Four
15. Sam Houston State... 82... 26-9... 2014-15... Lost to Louisiana (70-71) in CIT Second Round
16. Southern Utah... 85... 20-4... 2020-21... Lost to Montana State (77-80) in Big Sky Semifinals.
17T. New Mexico State... 92... 25-6... 2019-20... No Post Season (COVID)
17T. Grand Canyon... 92... 27-7... 2015-16... Lost to Coastal Carolina (58-60) in CIT Third Round
19. Utah Valley...... 98... 23-11... 2017-18... Lost to San Francisco (73-78) in CBI Second Round
20. New Mexico State... 107... 23-11... 2014-15... Lost to #10 Kansas (56-75) in NCAA Round of 64
(This post was last modified: 06-14-2021 02:44 PM by NMSUPistolPete.)
06-14-2021 02:37 PM
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PojoaquePosse Offline
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Post: #71
RE: WAC FBS - Later rather than sooner
(06-14-2021 01:50 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  
(06-14-2021 01:37 PM)TexasTerror Wrote:  
(06-14-2021 11:17 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  It is ridiculous for anyone to say the new schools, plus the departure of ChiSt, won't make the WAC better. People are using artificial qualifiers like better than 15 in NET rankings or NCAA tourney wins. I think it is a fact that the WAC will be a stronger conference with the new additions.

It is also ridiculous to say NMSU does not play a tough OOC schedule. Not only do they play multiple P5 teams every year, they regularly beat said teams in the OOC.

This board is getting more and more ludicrous by the day. And it's literally 2-3 posters that are dragging it down. But those individuals have no self awareness to know they are a problem. They actually come here to state over the top opinions and start fights. I think most everyone else comes here for info and quality dialog, not to talk trash.

Agreed!

As a fan of Sam Houston, it is really exciting for me to have my school in a conference where we can all celebrate as a collective the results (positive particularly) of the league in unison as we look for the schools, conference to better position itself in the mid-major landscape vs. anything our schools have been used to previously. It's for the benefit of the whole!

I too am excited about the WAC. Yes, this thread was started in jest, but some people are on here are either ridiculous or just dumb. Maybe the WAC will be a FBS league in the future. Undetermined how long that will be, but it’s ridiculous for a few people to claim it’s “soon”.

It’s also ridiculous to think that a full member of the conference will be kicked out by the Texas schools. They cannot kick out Seattle U and SU isn’t leaving until they have another autobid conference lined up.

It’s also ridiculous for fans to be worried about the Texas schools dictating things and/or leaving if they don’t get their way. Where are they going to go to? Back to the Southland with Houston Baptist and some lesser D2 move ups?

Best post you've had in a really long time. Of course, I have to critique something. If on 9/30/2020 I told you the WAC was going to gain 5 D1 schools from established, stable conferences and 4 of them would join on 7/1/2021, would you have believed it? Seems like a ridiculous notion and far too quick for something like that to happen, right? The first credible post about possible WAC expansion was written on this board on 9/30/2020. So I don't know if it's ridiculous to consider the WAC becoming an FBS conference in 5 years. Once again, I am not claiming the WAC will even become FBS, just pointing out that no one can predict the future.
(This post was last modified: 06-14-2021 03:22 PM by PojoaquePosse.)
06-14-2021 02:38 PM
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PojoaquePosse Offline
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Post: #72
RE: WAC FBS - Later rather than sooner
(06-14-2021 02:37 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  This is the average BPI and RPI in basketball For the current schools participating in the WAC over the last 10 years... including those who recently left and those joining with the next two years.

BPI
New Mexico State... 87.6 (over a 10 years period)
Stephen F. Austin... 135.0 (over a 10 years period)
Grand Canyon... 181.5 (over a 8 years period)
Tarleton State... 188.0 (just one year)
Sam Houston State... 194.5 (over a 10 years period)
California Baptist... 200.0 (over a 3 year period)
Cal State Bakersfield... 202.4 (over a 10 years period)
Utah Valley... 225.9 (over a 10 years period)
Abilene Christian... 239.5 (over a 8 years period)
Seattle U... 243.5 (over a 10 years period)
Lamar... 253.3 (over a 10 years period)
UM Kansas City... 266.3 (over a 10 years period)
Southern Utah... 270.1 (over a 10 years period)
UT Rio Grande Valley... 290.7 (over a 10 years period)
Dixie State... 324.0 (just one year)
Chicago State... 336.9 (over a 10 years period)

RPI
New Mexico State... 85.1
Stephen F. Austin... 150.1
Grand Canyon... 176.8
Sam Houston State... 188.6
Abilene Christian... 206.8
Cal State Bakersfield... 212.8 - left to the BWC
Utah Valley... 213.5
Tarleton State... 231.0
California Baptist... 232.7
UM Kansas City... 256.7 - left to the Summit
Seattle U.... 260.7
Southern Utah... 263.2
Lamar... 264.9
UT Rio Grande Valley... 289.6
Dixie State... 317.0
Chicago State... 327.7 - leaving next year

Top 20 past RPI seasons by present, recently past and future WAC schools over last 10 years...

1. Stephen F. Austin... 35... 29-5... 2014-15... Lost to #19 Utah (57-61) in NCAA Round of 64
2. New Mexico State... 40... 28-6... 2017-18... Lost to #20 Clemson (68-79) in NCAA Round of 64
3. New Mexico State... 43... 30-5... 2018-19... Lost to #14 Auburn (77-78) in NCAA Round of 64
4T. New Mexico State... 57... 24-11... 2012-13... Lost to #13 Saint Louis in NCAA Round of 64
4T. Stephen F. Austin... 57... 32-3... 2013-14... Upset #24 VCU (77-75 OT); Lost to #20 UCLA (60-77) in NCAA Round of 32
6. New Mexico State... 60... 28-6... 2016-17... Lost to #12 Baylor (73-91) in NCAA Round of 64
7T. New Mexico State... 63... 26-10... 2011-12... Lost to #16 Indiana (66-79) in NCAA Round of 64
7T. Stephen F. Austin... 63... 28-3... 2019-20... No Post Season (COVID)
9. Abilene Christian... 66... 24-5... 2020-21... Upset #9 Texas (53-52); Lost to UCLA (47-67) in NCAA Round of 32
10. Utah Valley...... 68... 25-10... 2018-19... Lost to South Florida (57-66) in CBI Second Round
11. Stephen F. Austin... 70... 27-5... 2012-13... Lost to Stanford (57-58) in NCAA Round of 64.
12. Stephen F. Austin... 71... 28-6... 2015-16... Upset #8 West Virginia (70-56); Lost to Notre Dame (75-76) in Round of 32.
13T. New Mexico State... 77... 26-10... 2013-14... Lost to #13 San Diego State (69-73 OT) in NCAA Round of 64
13T. Cal State Bakersfield... 77... 25-10... 2016-17... Lost to Georgia Tech (61-76) in NIT Final Four
15. Sam Houston State... 82... 26-9... 2014-15... Lost to Louisiana (70-71) in CIT Second Round
16. Southern Utah... 85... 20-4... 2020-21... Lost to Montana State (77-80) in Big Sky Semifinals.
17T. New Mexico State... 92... 25-6... 2019-20... No Post Season (COVID)
17T. Grand Canyon... 92... 27-7... 2015-16... Lost to Coastal Carolina (58-60) in CIT Third Round
19. Utah Valley...... 98... 23-11... 2017-18... Lost to San Francisco (73-78) in CBI Second Round
20. New Mexico State... 107... 23-11... 2014-15... Lost to #10 Kansas (56-75) in NCAA Round of 64

NMSU with 8 of the top 20. Must be those weak OOC schedules...07-coffee3
06-14-2021 03:15 PM
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NMSUPistolPete Offline
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Post: #73
RE: WAC FBS - Later rather than sooner
(06-14-2021 03:15 PM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  
(06-14-2021 02:37 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  This is the average BPI and RPI in basketball For the current schools participating in the WAC over the last 10 years... including those who recently left and those joining with the next two years.

BPI
New Mexico State... 87.6 (over a 10 years period)
Stephen F. Austin... 135.0 (over a 10 years period)
Grand Canyon... 181.5 (over a 8 years period)
Tarleton State... 188.0 (just one year)
Sam Houston State... 194.5 (over a 10 years period)
California Baptist... 200.0 (over a 3 year period)
Cal State Bakersfield... 202.4 (over a 10 years period)
Utah Valley... 225.9 (over a 10 years period)
Abilene Christian... 239.5 (over a 8 years period)
Seattle U... 243.5 (over a 10 years period)
Lamar... 253.3 (over a 10 years period)
UM Kansas City... 266.3 (over a 10 years period)
Southern Utah... 270.1 (over a 10 years period)
UT Rio Grande Valley... 290.7 (over a 10 years period)
Dixie State... 324.0 (just one year)
Chicago State... 336.9 (over a 10 years period)

RPI
New Mexico State... 85.1
Stephen F. Austin... 150.1
Grand Canyon... 176.8
Sam Houston State... 188.6
Abilene Christian... 206.8
Cal State Bakersfield... 212.8 - left to the BWC
Utah Valley... 213.5
Tarleton State... 231.0
California Baptist... 232.7
UM Kansas City... 256.7 - left to the Summit
Seattle U.... 260.7
Southern Utah... 263.2
Lamar... 264.9
UT Rio Grande Valley... 289.6
Dixie State... 317.0
Chicago State... 327.7 - leaving next year

Top 20 past RPI seasons by present, recently past and future WAC schools over last 10 years...

1. Stephen F. Austin... 35... 29-5... 2014-15... Lost to #19 Utah (57-61) in NCAA Round of 64
2. New Mexico State... 40... 28-6... 2017-18... Lost to #20 Clemson (68-79) in NCAA Round of 64
3. New Mexico State... 43... 30-5... 2018-19... Lost to #14 Auburn (77-78) in NCAA Round of 64
4T. New Mexico State... 57... 24-11... 2012-13... Lost to #13 Saint Louis in NCAA Round of 64
4T. Stephen F. Austin... 57... 32-3... 2013-14... Upset #24 VCU (77-75 OT); Lost to #20 UCLA (60-77) in NCAA Round of 32
6. New Mexico State... 60... 28-6... 2016-17... Lost to #12 Baylor (73-91) in NCAA Round of 64
7T. New Mexico State... 63... 26-10... 2011-12... Lost to #16 Indiana (66-79) in NCAA Round of 64
7T. Stephen F. Austin... 63... 28-3... 2019-20... No Post Season (COVID)
9. Abilene Christian... 66... 24-5... 2020-21... Upset #9 Texas (53-52); Lost to UCLA (47-67) in NCAA Round of 32
10. Utah Valley...... 68... 25-10... 2018-19... Lost to South Florida (57-66) in CBI Second Round
11. Stephen F. Austin... 70... 27-5... 2012-13... Lost to Stanford (57-58) in NCAA Round of 64.
12. Stephen F. Austin... 71... 28-6... 2015-16... Upset #8 West Virginia (70-56); Lost to Notre Dame (75-76) in Round of 32.
13T. New Mexico State... 77... 26-10... 2013-14... Lost to #13 San Diego State (69-73 OT) in NCAA Round of 64
13T. Cal State Bakersfield... 77... 25-10... 2016-17... Lost to Georgia Tech (61-76) in NIT Final Four
15. Sam Houston State... 82... 26-9... 2014-15... Lost to Louisiana (70-71) in CIT Second Round
16. Southern Utah... 85... 20-4... 2020-21... Lost to Montana State (77-80) in Big Sky Semifinals.
17T. New Mexico State... 92... 25-6... 2019-20... No Post Season (COVID)
17T. Grand Canyon... 92... 27-7... 2015-16... Lost to Coastal Carolina (58-60) in CIT Third Round
19. Utah Valley...... 98... 23-11... 2017-18... Lost to San Francisco (73-78) in CBI Second Round
20. New Mexico State... 107... 23-11... 2014-15... Lost to #10 Kansas (56-75) in NCAA Round of 64

NMSU with 8 of the top 20. Must be those weak OOC schedules...07-coffee3

The only two Aggie seasons not represented in the Top 20 (for the last 10 years) above are the 2015-16 season which was the year NMSU lost to Cal Bakersfield on a last second shot in the WAC Tournament Championship and this past COVID marred season.

I feel Stephen F. Austin and Sam Houston State will help the WAC NET immediately. The jury is still out on what impact the new coaches at Abilene Christian and Lamar will make. However, given Chicago State track record in the WAC, both ACU and Lamar should be an upgrade. Based on recruiting, all four Texas schools should be formidable competition. I also feel if Southern Utah can hold on to its head coach, the Thunderbirds will be a tough opponent when they join.
(This post was last modified: 06-14-2021 03:55 PM by NMSUPistolPete.)
06-14-2021 03:54 PM
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Post: #74
RE: WAC FBS - Later rather than sooner
(06-14-2021 03:54 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  
(06-14-2021 03:15 PM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  
(06-14-2021 02:37 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  This is the average BPI and RPI in basketball For the current schools participating in the WAC over the last 10 years... including those who recently left and those joining with the next two years.

BPI
New Mexico State... 87.6 (over a 10 years period)
Stephen F. Austin... 135.0 (over a 10 years period)
Grand Canyon... 181.5 (over a 8 years period)
Tarleton State... 188.0 (just one year)
Sam Houston State... 194.5 (over a 10 years period)
California Baptist... 200.0 (over a 3 year period)
Cal State Bakersfield... 202.4 (over a 10 years period)
Utah Valley... 225.9 (over a 10 years period)
Abilene Christian... 239.5 (over a 8 years period)
Seattle U... 243.5 (over a 10 years period)
Lamar... 253.3 (over a 10 years period)
UM Kansas City... 266.3 (over a 10 years period)
Southern Utah... 270.1 (over a 10 years period)
UT Rio Grande Valley... 290.7 (over a 10 years period)
Dixie State... 324.0 (just one year)
Chicago State... 336.9 (over a 10 years period)

RPI
New Mexico State... 85.1
Stephen F. Austin... 150.1
Grand Canyon... 176.8
Sam Houston State... 188.6
Abilene Christian... 206.8
Cal State Bakersfield... 212.8 - left to the BWC
Utah Valley... 213.5
Tarleton State... 231.0
California Baptist... 232.7
UM Kansas City... 256.7 - left to the Summit
Seattle U.... 260.7
Southern Utah... 263.2
Lamar... 264.9
UT Rio Grande Valley... 289.6
Dixie State... 317.0
Chicago State... 327.7 - leaving next year

Top 20 past RPI seasons by present, recently past and future WAC schools over last 10 years...

1. Stephen F. Austin... 35... 29-5... 2014-15... Lost to #19 Utah (57-61) in NCAA Round of 64
2. New Mexico State... 40... 28-6... 2017-18... Lost to #20 Clemson (68-79) in NCAA Round of 64
3. New Mexico State... 43... 30-5... 2018-19... Lost to #14 Auburn (77-78) in NCAA Round of 64
4T. New Mexico State... 57... 24-11... 2012-13... Lost to #13 Saint Louis in NCAA Round of 64
4T. Stephen F. Austin... 57... 32-3... 2013-14... Upset #24 VCU (77-75 OT); Lost to #20 UCLA (60-77) in NCAA Round of 32
6. New Mexico State... 60... 28-6... 2016-17... Lost to #12 Baylor (73-91) in NCAA Round of 64
7T. New Mexico State... 63... 26-10... 2011-12... Lost to #16 Indiana (66-79) in NCAA Round of 64
7T. Stephen F. Austin... 63... 28-3... 2019-20... No Post Season (COVID)
9. Abilene Christian... 66... 24-5... 2020-21... Upset #9 Texas (53-52); Lost to UCLA (47-67) in NCAA Round of 32
10. Utah Valley...... 68... 25-10... 2018-19... Lost to South Florida (57-66) in CBI Second Round
11. Stephen F. Austin... 70... 27-5... 2012-13... Lost to Stanford (57-58) in NCAA Round of 64.
12. Stephen F. Austin... 71... 28-6... 2015-16... Upset #8 West Virginia (70-56); Lost to Notre Dame (75-76) in Round of 32.
13T. New Mexico State... 77... 26-10... 2013-14... Lost to #13 San Diego State (69-73 OT) in NCAA Round of 64
13T. Cal State Bakersfield... 77... 25-10... 2016-17... Lost to Georgia Tech (61-76) in NIT Final Four
15. Sam Houston State... 82... 26-9... 2014-15... Lost to Louisiana (70-71) in CIT Second Round
16. Southern Utah... 85... 20-4... 2020-21... Lost to Montana State (77-80) in Big Sky Semifinals.
17T. New Mexico State... 92... 25-6... 2019-20... No Post Season (COVID)
17T. Grand Canyon... 92... 27-7... 2015-16... Lost to Coastal Carolina (58-60) in CIT Third Round
19. Utah Valley...... 98... 23-11... 2017-18... Lost to San Francisco (73-78) in CBI Second Round
20. New Mexico State... 107... 23-11... 2014-15... Lost to #10 Kansas (56-75) in NCAA Round of 64

NMSU with 8 of the top 20. Must be those weak OOC schedules...07-coffee3

The only two Aggie seasons not represented in the Top 20 (for the last 10 years) above are the 2015-16 season which was the year NMSU lost to Cal Bakersfield on a last second shot in the WAC Tournament Championship and this past COVID marred season.

I feel Stephen F. Austin and Sam Houston State will help the WAC NET immediately. The jury is still out on what impact the new coaches at Abilene Christian and Lamar will make. However, given Chicago State track record in the WAC, both ACU and Lamar should be an upgrade. Based on recruiting, all four Texas schools should be formidable competition. I also feel if Southern Utah can hold on to its head coach, the Thunderbirds will be a tough opponent when they join.

Abilene Christian has only been D1 eligible for four years. A 8 year history doesn’t accurately reflect ACU’s strength. I agree that the jury’s out with a coaching change. I feel good about the program though since one of the primary architects of the ACU program is in charge.
(This post was last modified: 06-14-2021 04:41 PM by OscarWildeCat.)
06-14-2021 04:40 PM
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NMSUPistolPete Offline
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Post: #75
RE: WAC FBS - Later rather than sooner
(06-14-2021 04:40 PM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  
(06-14-2021 03:54 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  
(06-14-2021 03:15 PM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  
(06-14-2021 02:37 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  This is the average BPI and RPI in basketball For the current schools participating in the WAC over the last 10 years... including those who recently left and those joining with the next two years.

BPI
New Mexico State... 87.6 (over a 10 years period)
Stephen F. Austin... 135.0 (over a 10 years period)
Grand Canyon... 181.5 (over a 8 years period)
Tarleton State... 188.0 (just one year)
Sam Houston State... 194.5 (over a 10 years period)
California Baptist... 200.0 (over a 3 year period)
Cal State Bakersfield... 202.4 (over a 10 years period)
Utah Valley... 225.9 (over a 10 years period)
Abilene Christian... 239.5 (over a 8 years period)
Seattle U... 243.5 (over a 10 years period)
Lamar... 253.3 (over a 10 years period)
UM Kansas City... 266.3 (over a 10 years period)
Southern Utah... 270.1 (over a 10 years period)
UT Rio Grande Valley... 290.7 (over a 10 years period)
Dixie State... 324.0 (just one year)
Chicago State... 336.9 (over a 10 years period)

RPI
New Mexico State... 85.1
Stephen F. Austin... 150.1
Grand Canyon... 176.8
Sam Houston State... 188.6
Abilene Christian... 206.8
Cal State Bakersfield... 212.8 - left to the BWC
Utah Valley... 213.5
Tarleton State... 231.0
California Baptist... 232.7
UM Kansas City... 256.7 - left to the Summit
Seattle U.... 260.7
Southern Utah... 263.2
Lamar... 264.9
UT Rio Grande Valley... 289.6
Dixie State... 317.0
Chicago State... 327.7 - leaving next year

Top 20 past RPI seasons by present, recently past and future WAC schools over last 10 years...

1. Stephen F. Austin... 35... 29-5... 2014-15... Lost to #19 Utah (57-61) in NCAA Round of 64
2. New Mexico State... 40... 28-6... 2017-18... Lost to #20 Clemson (68-79) in NCAA Round of 64
3. New Mexico State... 43... 30-5... 2018-19... Lost to #14 Auburn (77-78) in NCAA Round of 64
4T. New Mexico State... 57... 24-11... 2012-13... Lost to #13 Saint Louis in NCAA Round of 64
4T. Stephen F. Austin... 57... 32-3... 2013-14... Upset #24 VCU (77-75 OT); Lost to #20 UCLA (60-77) in NCAA Round of 32
6. New Mexico State... 60... 28-6... 2016-17... Lost to #12 Baylor (73-91) in NCAA Round of 64
7T. New Mexico State... 63... 26-10... 2011-12... Lost to #16 Indiana (66-79) in NCAA Round of 64
7T. Stephen F. Austin... 63... 28-3... 2019-20... No Post Season (COVID)
9. Abilene Christian... 66... 24-5... 2020-21... Upset #9 Texas (53-52); Lost to UCLA (47-67) in NCAA Round of 32
10. Utah Valley...... 68... 25-10... 2018-19... Lost to South Florida (57-66) in CBI Second Round
11. Stephen F. Austin... 70... 27-5... 2012-13... Lost to Stanford (57-58) in NCAA Round of 64.
12. Stephen F. Austin... 71... 28-6... 2015-16... Upset #8 West Virginia (70-56); Lost to Notre Dame (75-76) in Round of 32.
13T. New Mexico State... 77... 26-10... 2013-14... Lost to #13 San Diego State (69-73 OT) in NCAA Round of 64
13T. Cal State Bakersfield... 77... 25-10... 2016-17... Lost to Georgia Tech (61-76) in NIT Final Four
15. Sam Houston State... 82... 26-9... 2014-15... Lost to Louisiana (70-71) in CIT Second Round
16. Southern Utah... 85... 20-4... 2020-21... Lost to Montana State (77-80) in Big Sky Semifinals.
17T. New Mexico State... 92... 25-6... 2019-20... No Post Season (COVID)
17T. Grand Canyon... 92... 27-7... 2015-16... Lost to Coastal Carolina (58-60) in CIT Third Round
19. Utah Valley...... 98... 23-11... 2017-18... Lost to San Francisco (73-78) in CBI Second Round
20. New Mexico State... 107... 23-11... 2014-15... Lost to #10 Kansas (56-75) in NCAA Round of 64

NMSU with 8 of the top 20. Must be those weak OOC schedules...07-coffee3

The only two Aggie seasons not represented in the Top 20 (for the last 10 years) above are the 2015-16 season which was the year NMSU lost to Cal Bakersfield on a last second shot in the WAC Tournament Championship and this past COVID marred season.

I feel Stephen F. Austin and Sam Houston State will help the WAC NET immediately. The jury is still out on what impact the new coaches at Abilene Christian and Lamar will make. However, given Chicago State track record in the WAC, both ACU and Lamar should be an upgrade. Based on recruiting, all four Texas schools should be formidable competition. I also feel if Southern Utah can hold on to its head coach, the Thunderbirds will be a tough opponent when they join.

Abilene Christian has only been D1 eligible for four years. A 8 year history doesn’t accurately reflect ACU’s strength. I agree that the jury’s out with a coaching change. I feel good about the program though since one of the primary architects of the ACU program is in charge.

I think the WAC (and the SLC) has did a good job locating and adding good D2 move ups. I think Grand Canyon, California Baptist, Dixie State (Or Utah Poly Tech), Tarleton State and Abilene Christian will all prove to be better than schools who have been in D1 for many years. Until all five schools have been playing in D1 (mainly basketball) for a number on years, it will be difficult to accurately quantify their level of strength among their peers. There are those programs which their level of success is a direct result of the head coach; and if that coach leaves the program will noticeably drop in strength. Then their are schools who have built a tradition of winning (or have an abundance of money) that propel a program regardless of the head coach. They win because of the reputation built and having the infrastructure in place to help a coach succeed. I put NMSU, SFA, and GCU in this category.
06-14-2021 05:17 PM
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DoubleRSU Offline
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Post: #76
RE: WAC FBS - Later rather than sooner
Why does it matter? SFA won those games. Was the ineligible player someone who contributed significantly?
06-14-2021 09:18 PM
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Todor Offline
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Post: #77
RE: WAC FBS - Later rather than sooner
(06-14-2021 09:18 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Why does it matter? SFA won those games. Was the ineligible player someone who contributed significantly?

It does when you give up tourney wins and money, but I removed it nonetheless.
(This post was last modified: 06-14-2021 09:22 PM by Todor.)
06-14-2021 09:21 PM
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Post: #78
RE: WAC FBS - Later rather than sooner
Top 30 past RPI seasons by present, recently past and future WAC schools over last 16 years (when NMSU joined the WAC)...

1. Stephen F. Austin (Brad Underwood)... 35... 29-5... 2014-15... Lost to #19 Utah (57-61) in NCAA Round of 64
2. New Mexico State (Chris Jans)... 40... 28-6... 2017-18... Lost to #20 Clemson (68-79) in NCAA Round of 64
3. New Mexico State (Chris Jans)... 43... 30-5... 2018-19... Lost to #14 Auburn (77-78) in NCAA Round of 64
4T. Stephen F. Austin (Danny Kaspar)… 56… 26-6… 2008-09… Lost to Syracuse (44-59) in NCAA Round of 64
4T. New Mexico State (Marvin Menzies)… 56… 22-12… 2009-10… Lost to #13 Michigan State (67-70) in NCAA Round of 64
6T. New Mexico State (Marvin Menzies)... 57... 24-11... 2012-13... Lost to #13 Saint Louis in NCAA Round of 64
6T. Stephen F. Austin (Brad Underwood)... 57... 32-3... 2013-14... Upset #24 VCU (77-75 OT); Lost to #20 UCLA (60-77) in NCAA Rd. of 32
8. New Mexico State (Paul Weir)... 60... 28-6... 2016-17... Lost to #12 Baylor (73-91) in NCAA Round of 64
9T. New Mexico State (Marvin Menzies)... 63... 26-10... 2011-12... Lost to #16 Indiana (66-79) in NCAA Round of 64
9T. Stephen F. Austin (Kyle Keller)... 63... 28-3... 2019-20... No Post Season (COVID)
11. Abilene Christian (Joe Golding)... 66... 24-5... 2020-21... Upset #9 Texas (53-52); Lost to UCLA (47-67) in NCAA Round of 32
12. Utah Valley (Mark Pope)...... 68... 25-10... 2018-19... Lost to South Florida (57-66) in CBI Second Round
13T. Stephen F. Austin (Danny Kaspar)... 70... 27-5... 2012-13... Lost to Stanford (57-58) in NCAA Round of 64
13T. New Mexico State (Reggie Theus)… 70… 25-9… 2006-07… Lost to #11 Texas (67-79) in NCAA Round of 64
15. Stephen F. Austin (Brad Underwood)... 71... 28-6... 2015-16... Upset #8 West Virginia (70-56); Lost to Notre Dame (75-76) in Rd. of 32
16. Sam Houston State (Bob Marlin)… 72… 25-8… 2009-10… Lost to #19 Baylor (59-68) in NCAA Round of 64
17. Stephen F Austin (Danny Kaspar)… 75… 24-8… 2009-10… Lost to Sam Houston State (48-64) in SLC Tourney Championship
18T. New Mexico State (Marvin Menzies)... 77... 26-10... 2013-14... Lost to #13 San Diego State (69-73 OT) in NCAA Round of 64
18T. Cal State Bakersfield (Rod Barnes)... 77... 25-10... 2016-17... Lost to Georgia Tech (61-76) in NIT Final Four
20. Sam Houston State (Jason Hooten)... 82... 26-9... 2014-15... Lost to Louisiana (70-71) in CIT Second Round
21. Southern Utah (Todd Simon)... 85... 20-4... 2020-21... Lost to Montana State (77-80) in Big Sky Semifinals
22. Sam Houston State (Bob Marlin)… 90… 23-8… 2008-09… Lost to UTSA (74-83) in SLC Tournament First Round
23T. New Mexico State (Chris Jans)... 92... 25-6... 2019-20... No Post Season (COVID)
23T. Grand Canyon (Dan Marjerle)... 92... 27-7... 2015-16... Lost to Coastal Carolina (58-60) in CIT Third Round
25T. Utah Valley (Mark Pope)...... 98... 23-11... 2017-18... Lost to San Francisco (73-78) in CBI Second Round
25T. New Mexico State (Reggie Theus)… 98… 16-14… 2005-06… Lost to #21 Nevada (59-70) in WAC Tourney Semifinals
27. New Mexico State (Marvin Menzies)... 107... 23-11... 2014-15... Lost to #10 Kansas (56-75) in NCAA Round of 64
28. Lamar (Pat Knight)... 108... 23-12... 2011-12... Lost to Vermont (59-71) in NCAA Round of 68 play in game
29T. Sam Houston State (Jason Hooten)... 113... 24-11... 2013-14... Lost to San Diego (72-77) in CIT Second Round
29T. New Mexico State (Marvin Menzies)... 113... 23-11... 2015-16... Lost to St. Mary's (56-58) in NIT First Round

I wanted to show which coaches were involved with each season's success. Jans, Keller, and Hooten will be in the WAC this coming season and have set the bar in the past.
(This post was last modified: 06-15-2021 01:18 AM by NMSUPistolPete.)
06-15-2021 01:01 AM
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Todor Offline
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Post: #79
RE: WAC FBS - Later rather than sooner
(06-14-2021 11:17 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  It is ridiculous for anyone to say the new schools, plus the departure of ChiSt, won't make the WAC better. People are using artificial qualifiers like better than 15 in NET rankings or NCAA tourney wins. I think it is a fact that the WAC will be a stronger conference with the new additions.

It is also ridiculous to say NMSU does not play a tough OOC schedule. Not only do they play multiple P5 teams every year, they regularly beat said teams in the OOC.

This board is getting more and more ludicrous by the day. And it's literally 2-3 posters that are dragging it down. But those individuals have no self awareness to know they are a problem. They actually come here to state over the top opinions and start fights. I think most everyone else comes here for info and quality dialog, not to talk trash.

I clearly stated I think the conference will be in the 19-22 range for NET rankings next year. Is that clear enough? Got it? I said that long ago. It might be better going forward, but better than the reccent WAC best or better than a terrible season for the conference like last year?

If you don't want to hear about NCAA tournament wins or to predict, or compare NET rankings to previous years to specify how (or how much) better it might be, you're in the wrong place. Those things matter and will be discussed. Perhaps when I was talking about NET rankings, I assumed they had actually read my prediction when they stated how much better it will be. So I challenged them. If the ensuing engagement is simply based on their lack of reading, I'm not sorry. I was clear and specific and thought people who bother to post also bother to read. Responding to posts without having followed the board is a good way to create a disagreement, fyi to some.
06-15-2021 02:06 AM
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OhioBoilermaker Offline
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Post: #80
RE: WAC FBS - Later rather than sooner
Saw today that Southern Utah has scheduled a game at Pioneer League St. Thomas in 2026. Going from playing Pioneer League teams in 2026 to FBS teams in 2027 would certainly be a, uh, look.
06-15-2021 12:33 PM
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