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Lotsa smoke for some fires...
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DuelingDragon Online
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Post: #61
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
(06-10-2021 08:48 PM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  So now we'll get to see how a G5 school holds up against a P5 school with something to actually play for. I think it's going to be ugly initially for the G5 but we'll see.

Probably no more or less ugly than it’s been for Notre Dame, or Ohio State, or Michigan State, or Washington or Oklahoma at times, but of course the G5 team won’t get a pass for it.
06-10-2021 08:51 PM
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BAMANBLAZERFAN Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
(06-10-2021 08:37 PM)DuelingDragon Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 08:27 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote:  Has anyone accounted for the extended season requiring 5 additional weeks of games (per post #51) for winning teams? Of course it won't hurt the schools who have the scholarship money all in their pockets, but it may not set well with the players who take all the risks of playing what amounts to another half season just to add income to the schools and staff. What would be in it for them?

It’s not actually 5 additional games. It’s two or, for teams not getting a bye, three.

Your larger point, compensation, is sure to be raised.

OK, I miscounted but If a team plays the first week and wins out, it and perhaps its final opponent would play 4 games in 4 weeks. That is 1/3 of a season of 12 games. How many weeks would most of us work our jobs without pay? Just imagine telling your boss to not pay you for July but to just add that to his income. I'm sure he would appreciate your team spirit.
06-10-2021 09:04 PM
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WesternBlazer Online
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Post: #63
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
Steve Berkowitz@ByBerkowitz

U.S. Senators @SenBlumenthal and @ChrisMurphyCT
Proposed 12-team CFP is cash grab that'll hurt players who should have more of a say in all this. It could be new driver in debate about college sports that returns to the Hill for another hearing next week:

Two U.S. senators criticize proposed College Football Playoff expansion: 'cash grab' that will hurt players
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nc...647320002/
06-10-2021 09:36 PM
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HiddenDragon Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
(06-10-2021 09:04 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 08:37 PM)DuelingDragon Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 08:27 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote:  Has anyone accounted for the extended season requiring 5 additional weeks of games (per post #51) for winning teams? Of course it won't hurt the schools who have the scholarship money all in their pockets, but it may not set well with the players who take all the risks of playing what amounts to another half season just to add income to the schools and staff. What would be in it for them?

It’s not actually 5 additional games. It’s two or, for teams not getting a bye, three.

Your larger point, compensation, is sure to be raised.

OK, I miscounted but If a team plays the first week and wins out, it and perhaps its final opponent would play 4 games in 4 weeks. That is 1/3 of a season of 12 games. How many weeks would most of us work our jobs without pay? Just imagine telling your boss to not pay you for July but to just add that to his income. I'm sure he would appreciate your team spirit.

Remember when 11 games were too many for student/athletes because it would affect their academics? Now we're asking them to play 15-16 games and we're still calling them student/athletes.
06-10-2021 09:36 PM
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Post: #65
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
(06-10-2021 08:58 AM)hooverblazer Wrote:  Agreed. Sticking with the status quo will lead to college football becoming a regional sport with the same teams always winning which lead to a decline in overall interest on the national level.

It has already led to a severe recruiting imbalance that affects all the P5 who are not Bama/Clemson/Oklahoma. That and the fact that ESPN sees lots of dollar signs are what's pushing this through.
06-10-2021 10:04 PM
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Post: #66
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
(06-10-2021 09:36 PM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  Remember when 11 games were too many for student/athletes because it would affect their academics? Now we're asking them to play 15-16 games and we're still calling them student/athletes.

Go take a look at a couple of NCAA Baseball schedules and come back to this topic.
06-10-2021 10:06 PM
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BlazinBham Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
More games is better. If we are about to let players get sponsors. Then they’ll have more games to get paid for playing. Some of these players could use more games even after 2-3 years of experience in college footballs current state. Maybe it entices players to stop leaving for the pros way before they are ready.

Most of the players were already playing 14-15 games in high school ball. This is nothing different than they should be accustomed to and this should force coaches to play more guys from their bench.
(This post was last modified: Yesterday 12:06 AM by BlazinBham.)
06-10-2021 11:58 PM
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blazr Away
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Post: #68
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
(06-10-2021 01:09 PM)DuelingDragon Wrote:  This is huge -- 6 highest-rated conference champs is waaaay more access than p5 champs + highest rated G5.

https://twitter.com/NicoleAuerbach/statu...86016?s=20

That is an excellent plan, tbh. Which usually means they’ll screw it up somehow but we’ll see...
Yesterday 02:56 AM
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WesternBlazer Online
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Post: #69
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
(Yesterday 02:56 AM)blazr Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 01:09 PM)DuelingDragon Wrote:  This is huge -- 6 highest-rated conference champs is waaaay more access than p5 champs + highest rated G5.

https://twitter.com/NicoleAuerbach/statu...86016?s=20

That is an excellent plan, tbh. Which usually means they’ll screw it up somehow but we’ll see...

Initially, but beware of the moving target...
Yesterday 07:47 AM
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hooverblazer Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
If this passes and defined G5 access remains, I wonder if it might slow down how many top level G5 coaches leave for mid tier to lower tier P5 jobs? They could now have better access to the playoff at an upper half American school vs leaving for Vandy, GA Tech, Kansas St, etc.
Yesterday 07:52 AM
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DuelingDragon Online
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Post: #71
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
(Yesterday 07:52 AM)hooverblazer Wrote:  If this passes and defined G5 access remains, I wonder if it might slow down how many top level G5 coaches leave for mid tier to lower tier P5 jobs? They could now have better access to the playoff at an upper half American school vs leaving for Vandy, GA Tech, Kansas St, etc.


I think this could be true for the top G5 jobs, of which UAB is now one. Still will be hard to stave off the lure of the top conferences just on resource gap alone.
Yesterday 08:16 AM
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bftb Online
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Post: #72
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
(06-10-2021 05:31 PM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 05:14 PM)hooverblazer Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 05:06 PM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 03:21 PM)DuelingDragon Wrote:  Everything in this dance has always been a give and take. This is a pretty big give, at least on the surface, to the G5s. So what's the take?

My guess -- 1) fewer bowls; 2) less money available for their G5 media rights deals; 2) Fewer non-conference games against p5.

And I think the G5s would gladly take that to remove the artificial ceiling on their growth and to stem the potential impact of the transfer portal caused by that cap.

I don't think it's a pretty big give at all. In a sense, the spot the P5 allowed for a G5 team in the NY6 bowl game is now a playoff spot. In return, the P5 can have more teams in the playoffs thus reap even more financial benefits while the G5 will still only be getting the revenue of one game.

What's interesting is that if this had been implemented last season Coastal Carolina and Cincinnati would have been two of the six ranked conference champs. I don't think you'll see something like that happen again.

That said, you know this will probably be the breakdown of the playoff slots:

1. SEC Champ and runner-up
2. B1G Champ and runner-up
3. Big 12 Champ
4. ACC Champ
5. PAC 12 Champ
6. 2 additional SEC teams
7. 1 additional B1G teams
8. Additional team from either the PAC 12, Big 12, or ACC
9. G5 team

Most years yes. But it at least gives one G5 an automatic slot and creates the possibility to get one more.

Also, over time, I think you'll see the talent disparity lessen somewhat between the top 4 teams and everyone else. More paths to the playoffs and a national title means not every 5 star has to play for Bama, Clemson, or Ohio St to win it all. Redistributing talent will take time though.

1. In essence all that is happen is the G5 access slot to a NY6 bowl game has become a playoff spot.

2. How much of the revenue will the P5 share with the G5 with the additional income generated from the extra playoff games?

3. With more money comes more greed. Even though from an optical perspective it will look like the G5 will have more access to the playoffs you can best believe it will be extremely impossible for the G5 to get two teams in. G5 teams records will be more scrutinized, SOS will become a factor, P5 coaches and ADs will be politicking for their teams to get an at-large bid on ESPN. It's gonna get nasty.

At the end of the day it is still the have and the have nots. And financially the gap will get even wider between the two entities. This is nothing more than putting a band aide on a fractured bone. While I understand the excitement for me this is really still much ado about very little.

It may not be ideal--I would have preferred the 16-team playoff like every other NCAA division has, that includes every conference champion. As it is, there is still inequity, but it's not as bad as it was. And if we are going to wait till everything is fair and the P5 shares access and money equally, well, we'll be waiting a while.

But here's the deal: when we pump up the footballs and start practicing in August, every team now has a shot of playing for a championship, if they take care of business on the field. Before, they threw the G5 the bone that they could play in a New Year's Day bowl, but there was never really a shot that it would be a game that mattered.

So, the year UCF claimed their championship, they would at least have had the opportunity to prove it--or not. But it will be done on the field.
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ICB Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
Excuse me if I have overlooked this. I read where its the 6 highest rated conference champs and the next 6 highest rated teams. My question is, are we sticking to the current committee ratings or will we take the human element out of it? I can see a lower ranked B12 champ jumping a G5 Champ, "just because."

Scenario: Big 12 Championship Game, #6 Rated vs #23 Rated, while the AAC Champ is #9, Other G5 Champions are 13/14, #23 rated Big 12 team wins B12 championship and is bumped to 12, knocking the additional G5 teams from automatic birth. I don't trust human elements in this equation.
Yesterday 09:38 AM
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blazers9911 Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
I’m sure it’s human. I wish we’d go back to a modified BCS system with some computer element in it. The coach’s poll needs to be gone, and I don’t care if the AP goes with it.
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DuelingDragon Online
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Post: #75
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
(Yesterday 09:38 AM)ICB Wrote:  Excuse me if I have overlooked this. I read where its the 6 highest rated conference champs and the next 6 highest rated teams. My question is, are we sticking to the current committee ratings or will we take the human element out of it? I can see a lower ranked B12 champ jumping a G5 Champ, "just because."

Scenario: Big 12 Championship Game, #6 Rated vs #23 Rated, while the AAC Champ is #9, Other G5 Champions are 13/14, #23 rated Big 12 team wins B12 championship and is bumped to 12, knocking the additional G5 teams from automatic birth. I don't trust human elements in this equation.

This will happen. But now also there will be times it doesn't, and there will be two G5 champs. On the whole, though, the distribution over a period of 10 years is going to look a lot like it would have looked had this been in place the previous decade.

An expanded playoff isn't going to fundamentally change the pecking order established over decades. But it is going to reward that G5 program that competes at a high level and at least create a path of possibility.

SEC / Big Ten will dominate the number of bids
ACC / Big 12 and Pac-12 next

American next, slightly closer to the bottom of the top tier than the tier below them

MWC / MAC / Sun Belt / C-USA next, all about the same.

And it will pretty much be in direct line with resources and reputation. Programs have always gotten screwed in college football, no matter what system was in place, going back the the early 1900s. I don't expect that will change now. But hopefully it will at least not be guaranteed before playing a game, though.
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DuelingDragon Online
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Post: #76
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
I find it interesting that Notre Dame is perfectly fine with not being eligible for a bye even if it is ranked No. 1. I guess that is the tradeoff for not playing a conference championship game.

Also will be interesting to see what BYU does.

Do they feel the need to join a conference (AAC or back to MWC) to compete for that one guaranteed slot (and guaranteed revenue share) or do they compete with Notre Dame (and the other indies) for one of six at-larges.

I'm inclined to think they view the latter as advantageous given they can schedule aggressively and own all their money, but there's still a lot of math to run.
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UAB Band Dad Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
The trade off for Notre Dame is that while they lose the occasional home playoff game, they are going to be one of the top twelve teams three to four out of five years. They can do it without joining a conference, which lets them play all over the country for recruiting and scheduling matchups and helps them make better financial deals as well.

I think that's a smart deal for them.
(This post was last modified: Yesterday 06:18 PM by UAB Band Dad.)
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UAB Schnauzer Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
(06-10-2021 09:04 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 08:37 PM)DuelingDragon Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 08:27 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote:  Has anyone accounted for the extended season requiring 5 additional weeks of games (per post #51) for winning teams? Of course it won't hurt the schools who have the scholarship money all in their pockets, but it may not set well with the players who take all the risks of playing what amounts to another half season just to add income to the schools and staff. What would be in it for them?

It’s not actually 5 additional games. It’s two or, for teams not getting a bye, three.

Your larger point, compensation, is sure to be raised.

OK, I miscounted but If a team plays the first week and wins out, it and perhaps its final opponent would play 4 games in 4 weeks. That is 1/3 of a season of 12 games. How many weeks would most of us work our jobs without pay? Just imagine telling your boss to not pay you for July but to just add that to his income. I'm sure he would appreciate your team spirit.

they get paid. they get a free education, a free place to stay, and all the food you can eat and plenty of spending money. As someone who has a newly graduated child looking at going to school without living at home I have been looking at the costs quite a bit. Alabama instate costs per the University is $31,000 for instate and $51,000 for out of state. Even before giving the cost of attendance stipends player still got money for expenses and they have few of those. $5,000 goes a long way if all your needs are paid for.

What do you think the chances are of being drafted if you do not play college football? What do you think the chances of a poor kid from a single parent household being able to attend and graduate college without that athletic scholarship. I have spent the last several years watching many of my son's friends who had good grades and ACT scores over 30 drop out of college after one or two years because they cant afford to go.

there are plenty of companies that work salaried employees more than 40 hours a week. I worked more than my fair share of 50-60 hour weeks without overtime.

the point is this is hardly a one way street with college football players being exploited without any benefits.
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HiddenDragon Offline
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Post: #79
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
College student/athletes aren't paid by their universities.....at least not legally. Most colleges students have to find PT jobs to have money in their pockets to make ends meet. I also don't think they're exploited either because 99.9% of these athletes want to play regardless of how many games they play.

But more games cut into their student time and try to sell me "well they have tudors". At the end of dat day it doesn't matter what side of the argument you fall on because greed always win.
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