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Lotsa smoke for some fires...
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HiddenDragon Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
(06-10-2021 02:45 PM)biglizard Wrote:  I was a little leery when I first started reading this. Now that the discussion has expanded, I can't believe the P5 schools agreed (or at least sorta agreed).

Totally see why the P5 agreed to this:

[Image: tenor.gif]
06-10-2021 03:11 PM
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DuelingDragon Online
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Post: #42
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
Everything in this dance has always been a give and take. This is a pretty big give, at least on the surface, to the G5s. So what's the take?

My guess -- 1) fewer bowls; 2) less money available for their G5 media rights deals; 2) Fewer non-conference games against p5.

And I think the G5s would gladly take that to remove the artificial ceiling on their growth and to stem the potential impact of the transfer portal caused by that cap.
(This post was last modified: 06-10-2021 03:21 PM by DuelingDragon.)
06-10-2021 03:21 PM
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Post: #43
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
IMHO; Any proposed college playoff design that involves "byes" for any teams is DOA. The playoff will have to have all teams playing each week or it won't fly. That means 8 is the practical limit for now. (how many large neutral site stadiums are there- like Jerry World in TX or MB in ATL?)

I don't think the AAC will make any decision about adding a team until the BIG 12 returns to its named size, and then the AAC will know if it needs to add more than one team. I'm sure it has a list of preferred candidates for its expansion in a top drawer &/or on speed dial in its office.
(This post was last modified: 06-10-2021 04:25 PM by BAMANBLAZERFAN.)
06-10-2021 04:18 PM
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biglizard Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
(06-10-2021 04:18 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote:  IMHO; Any proposed college playoff design that involves "byes" for any teams is DOA. The playoff will have to have all teams playing each week or it won't fly. That means 8 is the practical limit for now.

I don't think the AAC will make any decision about adding a team until the BIG 12 returns to its named size, and then the AAC will know if it needs to add more than one team. I'm sure it has a list of preferred candidates for its expansion in a top drawer &/or on speed dial in its office.

I disagree. The top 4 teams will get their first round revenue share without playing a game and get a week of rest. Those perennial top 4 carry a lot of weight in their respective conferences
06-10-2021 04:27 PM
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DuelingDragon Online
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Post: #45
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
(06-10-2021 04:18 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote:  IMHO; Any proposed college playoff design that involves "byes" for any teams is DOA. The playoff will have to have all teams playing each week or it won't fly. That means 8 is the practical limit for now. (how many large neutral site stadiums are there- like Jerry World in TX or MB in ATL?)

I don't think the AAC will make any decision about adding a team until the BIG 12 returns to its named size, and then the AAC will know if it needs to add more than one team. I'm sure it has a list of preferred candidates for its expansion in a top drawer &/or on speed dial in its office.

No, they specificially are doing it this way precisely to avoid a first week of overlapping games in TV windows, diluting the ratings.

And the Big 12 isn't adding anyone. There is no reason to do so.
(This post was last modified: 06-10-2021 04:57 PM by DuelingDragon.)
06-10-2021 04:57 PM
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HiddenDragon Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
(06-10-2021 03:21 PM)DuelingDragon Wrote:  Everything in this dance has always been a give and take. This is a pretty big give, at least on the surface, to the G5s. So what's the take?

My guess -- 1) fewer bowls; 2) less money available for their G5 media rights deals; 2) Fewer non-conference games against p5.

And I think the G5s would gladly take that to remove the artificial ceiling on their growth and to stem the potential impact of the transfer portal caused by that cap.

I don't think it's a pretty big give at all. In a sense, the spot the P5 allowed for a G5 team in the NY6 bowl game is now a playoff spot. In return, the P5 can have more teams in the playoffs thus reap even more financial benefits while the G5 will still only be getting the revenue of one game.

What's interesting is that if this had been implemented last season Coastal Carolina and Cincinnati would have been two of the six ranked conference champs. I don't think you'll see something like that happen again.

That said, you know this will probably be the breakdown of the playoff slots:

1. SEC Champ and runner-up
2. B1G Champ and runner-up
3. Big 12 Champ
4. ACC Champ
5. PAC 12 Champ
6. 2 additional SEC teams
7. 1 additional B1G teams
8. Additional team from either the PAC 12, Big 12, or ACC
9. G5 team
06-10-2021 05:06 PM
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hooverblazer Online
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Post: #47
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
(06-10-2021 05:06 PM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 03:21 PM)DuelingDragon Wrote:  Everything in this dance has always been a give and take. This is a pretty big give, at least on the surface, to the G5s. So what's the take?

My guess -- 1) fewer bowls; 2) less money available for their G5 media rights deals; 2) Fewer non-conference games against p5.

And I think the G5s would gladly take that to remove the artificial ceiling on their growth and to stem the potential impact of the transfer portal caused by that cap.

I don't think it's a pretty big give at all. In a sense, the spot the P5 allowed for a G5 team in the NY6 bowl game is now a playoff spot. In return, the P5 can have more teams in the playoffs thus reap even more financial benefits while the G5 will still only be getting the revenue of one game.

What's interesting is that if this had been implemented last season Coastal Carolina and Cincinnati would have been two of the six ranked conference champs. I don't think you'll see something like that happen again.

That said, you know this will probably be the breakdown of the playoff slots:

1. SEC Champ and runner-up
2. B1G Champ and runner-up
3. Big 12 Champ
4. ACC Champ
5. PAC 12 Champ
6. 2 additional SEC teams
7. 1 additional B1G teams
8. Additional team from either the PAC 12, Big 12, or ACC
9. G5 team

Most years yes. But it at least gives one G5 an automatic slot and creates the possibility to get one more.

Also, over time, I think you'll see the talent disparity lessen somewhat between the top 4 teams and everyone else. More paths to the playoffs and a national title means not every 5 star has to play for Bama, Clemson, or Ohio St to win it all. Redistributing talent will take time though.
06-10-2021 05:14 PM
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DuelingDragon Online
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Post: #48
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
(06-10-2021 05:06 PM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 03:21 PM)DuelingDragon Wrote:  Everything in this dance has always been a give and take. This is a pretty big give, at least on the surface, to the G5s. So what's the take?

My guess -- 1) fewer bowls; 2) less money available for their G5 media rights deals; 2) Fewer non-conference games against p5.

And I think the G5s would gladly take that to remove the artificial ceiling on their growth and to stem the potential impact of the transfer portal caused by that cap.

I don't think it's a pretty big give at all. In a sense, the spot the P5 allowed for a G5 team in the NY6 bowl game is now a playoff spot. In return, the P5 can have more teams in the playoffs thus reap even more financial benefits while the G5 will still only be getting the revenue of one game.

What's interesting is that if this had been implemented last season Coastal Carolina and Cincinnati would have been two of the six ranked conference champs. I don't think you'll see something like that happen again.

That said, you know this will probably be the breakdown of the playoff slots:

1. SEC Champ and runner-up
2. B1G Champ and runner-up
3. Big 12 Champ
4. ACC Champ
5. PAC 12 Champu
7. 1 additional B1G teams
8. Additional team from either the PAC 12, Big 12, or ACC
9. G5 team

It's the biggest give to date, and by far the fastest advance of what is historically a painfully incremental evolution. Of course it has to be a win for the P5 or they don't do it. But this is a huge win in perception for the G5. Remains to be seen if it comes with an unexpected or intended consequence. As with most things, whatever comes the quick-take conventional wisdom will probably prove to be wrong over time.

What is definitely true is that the success of G5 teams didn't go unrewarded. All of G5 owes a debt to those programs who competed well or even won on the big stage through the BCS and playoff eras. That mattered.
(This post was last modified: 06-10-2021 05:19 PM by DuelingDragon.)
06-10-2021 05:17 PM
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HiddenDragon Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
(06-10-2021 05:14 PM)hooverblazer Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 05:06 PM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 03:21 PM)DuelingDragon Wrote:  Everything in this dance has always been a give and take. This is a pretty big give, at least on the surface, to the G5s. So what's the take?

My guess -- 1) fewer bowls; 2) less money available for their G5 media rights deals; 2) Fewer non-conference games against p5.

And I think the G5s would gladly take that to remove the artificial ceiling on their growth and to stem the potential impact of the transfer portal caused by that cap.

I don't think it's a pretty big give at all. In a sense, the spot the P5 allowed for a G5 team in the NY6 bowl game is now a playoff spot. In return, the P5 can have more teams in the playoffs thus reap even more financial benefits while the G5 will still only be getting the revenue of one game.

What's interesting is that if this had been implemented last season Coastal Carolina and Cincinnati would have been two of the six ranked conference champs. I don't think you'll see something like that happen again.

That said, you know this will probably be the breakdown of the playoff slots:

1. SEC Champ and runner-up
2. B1G Champ and runner-up
3. Big 12 Champ
4. ACC Champ
5. PAC 12 Champ
6. 2 additional SEC teams
7. 1 additional B1G teams
8. Additional team from either the PAC 12, Big 12, or ACC
9. G5 team

Most years yes. But it at least gives one G5 an automatic slot and creates the possibility to get one more.

Also, over time, I think you'll see the talent disparity lessen somewhat between the top 4 teams and everyone else. More paths to the playoffs and a national title means not every 5 star has to play for Bama, Clemson, or Ohio St to win it all. Redistributing talent will take time though.

1. In essence all that is happen is the G5 access slot to a NY6 bowl game has become a playoff spot.

2. How much of the revenue will the P5 share with the G5 with the additional income generated from the extra playoff games?

3. With more money comes more greed. Even though from an optical perspective it will look like the G5 will have more access to the playoffs you can best believe it will be extremely impossible for the G5 to get two teams in. G5 teams records will be more scrutinized, SOS will become a factor, P5 coaches and ADs will be politicking for their teams to get an at-large bid on ESPN. It's gonna get nasty.

At the end of the day it is still the have and the have nots. And financially the gap will get even wider between the two entities. This is nothing more than putting a band aide on a fractured bone. While I understand the excitement for me this is really still much ado about very little.
(This post was last modified: 06-10-2021 05:31 PM by HiddenDragon.)
06-10-2021 05:31 PM
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Post: #50
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
Brett McMurphy@Brett_McMurphy
Big 12 commish Bob Bowlsby on difference b/w 12-team & 4-team playoff. “It creates energy in October & November. It’s opposite of current playoff to regular season. Practical effect of (12 teams) - there will be 25 or 30 teams w/opportunity to (make playoffs in final weeks)"

RedditCFB@RedditCFB
Bill Hancock on 12 teams: it makes both September and November more important and exciting than a 4-team playoff.

RedditCFB@RedditCFB
Jack Swarbrick on maintaining regular season interest: In 4 of the CFP years, no team ranked lower than 7 in the initial CFP ranking made the eventual playoff. Under the 12 team model, 2 years would have had 3 initially CFP unranked teams make the playoff.
06-10-2021 06:00 PM
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WesternBlazer Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
[Image: E3jlXAUVEAU047g?format=png&name=small]
[Image: E3joCRCUUAIALRA?format=png&name=small]
[Image: E3joUrDVIAEqp1A?format=png&name=small]
[Image: E3joX6iUYAIaMvS?format=png&name=small]
[Image: E3jn3PkUYAURHC9?format=png&name=small]
06-10-2021 06:13 PM
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WesternBlazer Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
[Image: E3jt6lFVgAAeaqy?format=jpg&name=small]

I guess, based on my recent posts, I am not confident that this will change things. It could, in fact, make things worse for G5 teams ability to get into the playoff. While a 12- or even 8-team playoff would have been a good thing for G5 teams in recent years, the current atmosphere makes it more difficult. The new transfer rules make it more likely that teams that are on the edge of the playoff - outside looking in most years - will gather enough talent(swapping bad P5 talent for top G5 talent) to be more competitive and consistent in this area. In addition, a spot for a G5 team seems less likely as well. As P5 teams play fewer G5 teams in favor of much-lesser P5 teams and further reducing G5 opportunities for exposure and P5 wins, the argument will be "who did they play?". This could end up becoming the same thing as the NCAA tournament.
06-10-2021 07:15 PM
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HiddenDragon Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
(06-10-2021 03:11 PM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 02:45 PM)biglizard Wrote:  I was a little leery when I first started reading this. Now that the discussion has expanded, I can't believe the P5 schools agreed (or at least sorta agreed).

Totally see why the P5 agreed to this:

[Image: tenor.gif]

Also, this is being implemented because of the s#!tload of money that was lost last year to COVID.
06-10-2021 07:20 PM
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BlazinBham Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
Please, let us be in AAC by 2023
06-10-2021 07:44 PM
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blazers9911 Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
(06-10-2021 07:15 PM)WesternBlazer Wrote:  [Image: E3jt6lFVgAAeaqy?format=jpg&name=small]

I guess, based on my recent posts, I am not confident that this will change things. It could, in fact, make things worse for G5 teams ability to get into the playoff. While a 12- or even 8-team playoff would have been a good thing for G5 teams in recent years, the current atmosphere makes it more difficult. The new transfer rules make it more likely that teams that are on the edge of the playoff - outside looking in most years - will gather enough talent(swapping bad P5 talent for top G5 talent) to be more competitive and consistent in this area. In addition, a spot for a G5 team seems less likely as well. As P5 teams play fewer G5 teams in favor of much-lesser P5 teams and further reducing G5 opportunities for exposure and P5 wins, the argument will be "who did they play?". This could end up becoming the same thing as the NCAA tournament.

We have zero chance of getting in under the four team format. While our odds do not increase greatly under a twelve team format, they do go from 0% to some number above 0%
06-10-2021 07:59 PM
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WesternBlazer Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
(06-10-2021 07:59 PM)blazers9911 Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 07:15 PM)WesternBlazer Wrote:  [Image: E3jt6lFVgAAeaqy?format=jpg&name=small]

I guess, based on my recent posts, I am not confident that this will change things. It could, in fact, make things worse for G5 teams ability to get into the playoff. While a 12- or even 8-team playoff would have been a good thing for G5 teams in recent years, the current atmosphere makes it more difficult. The new transfer rules make it more likely that teams that are on the edge of the playoff - outside looking in most years - will gather enough talent(swapping bad P5 talent for top G5 talent) to be more competitive and consistent in this area. In addition, a spot for a G5 team seems less likely as well. As P5 teams play fewer G5 teams in favor of much-lesser P5 teams and further reducing G5 opportunities for exposure and P5 wins, the argument will be "who did they play?". This could end up becoming the same thing as the NCAA tournament.

We have zero chance of getting in under the four team format. While our odds do not increase greatly under a twelve team format, they do go from 0% to some number above 0%

I guess I'm comparing the likelihood of being in a New Year's bowl game to the 12-team championship tourney...
06-10-2021 08:12 PM
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Post: #57
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
Has anyone accounted for the extended season requiring 5 additional weeks of games (per post #51) for winning teams? Of course it won't hurt the schools who have the scholarship money all in their pockets, but it may not set well with the players who take all the risks of playing what amounts to another half season just to add income to the schools and staff. What would be in it for them?
06-10-2021 08:27 PM
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DuelingDragon Online
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Post: #58
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
(06-10-2021 08:27 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote:  Has anyone accounted for the extended season requiring 5 additional weeks of games (per post #51) for winning teams? Of course it won't hurt the schools who have the scholarship money all in their pockets, but it may not set well with the players who take all the risks of playing what amounts to another half season just to add income to the schools and staff. What would be in it for them?

It’s not actually 5 additional games. It’s two or, for teams not getting a bye, three.

Your larger point, compensation, is sure to be raised.
06-10-2021 08:37 PM
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HiddenDragon Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
(06-10-2021 07:59 PM)blazers9911 Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 07:15 PM)WesternBlazer Wrote:  [Image: E3jt6lFVgAAeaqy?format=jpg&name=small]

I guess, based on my recent posts, I am not confident that this will change things. It could, in fact, make things worse for G5 teams ability to get into the playoff. While a 12- or even 8-team playoff would have been a good thing for G5 teams in recent years, the current atmosphere makes it more difficult. The new transfer rules make it more likely that teams that are on the edge of the playoff - outside looking in most years - will gather enough talent(swapping bad P5 talent for top G5 talent) to be more competitive and consistent in this area. In addition, a spot for a G5 team seems less likely as well. As P5 teams play fewer G5 teams in favor of much-lesser P5 teams and further reducing G5 opportunities for exposure and P5 wins, the argument will be "who did they play?". This could end up becoming the same thing as the NCAA tournament.

We have zero chance of getting in under the four team format. While our odds do not increase greatly under a twelve team format, they do go from 0% to some number above 0%

So from one sip out of the jug to three sips. Better than nothing but still leaves you thirsty.
06-10-2021 08:43 PM
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HiddenDragon Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Lotsa smoke for some fires...
So now we'll get to see how a G5 school holds up against a P5 school with something to actually play for. I think it's going to be ugly initially for the G5 but we'll see.
06-10-2021 08:48 PM
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