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CFP Expansion in 2 Years?
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #221
RE: CFP Expansion in 2 Years?
(06-14-2021 08:20 AM)smu89 Wrote:  
(06-13-2021 09:18 PM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  
(06-13-2021 04:05 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(06-13-2021 10:45 AM)8BitPirate Wrote:  So is the going AAC BBS thought that we just go to 12 with BYU or go BIG and grab BYU plus the best from MWC to get to 14/16?

I’m honestly ok with adding BYU, Boise, and San Diego St as full members once it’s clear that the Big 12 isn’t going to be raided in 2024.

The AAC has no reason to move fast, they can sit back see the final CFP plans, see if they can continue to play at 11, and see how league performs in 2021 and even 2022. Only reason to go ton12 or 14 now is to strengthen the league on the field AND financially.
Makes me wonder if they could say conf champ must come from a 12 team conf. Would cause Big 12 to add causing AAC to fall back to G5.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

They arent going to do something that costs the Big-12 teams AND ESPN money. The P5 doesnt spend every moment worrying about the AAC catching them. They know they arent---even if the AAC gets everything the AAC wants---we arent going to get a 20 to 55 million dollar per team payout. And frankly---I dont care if we do. Just as long as we arent grouped with the G5---Im good.
06-15-2021 11:29 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #222
RE: CFP Expansion in 2 Years?
(06-15-2021 10:01 PM)Acres Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 12:37 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 12:35 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

P6?

This is far from over. There is deliberate push in the media against this proposal especially as it relates to the G5. Now that this proposal is heading to the full management committee deliberations this Thursday, I expect changes that will add conditions to G5 participation in the playoffs. For instance the highest rated conference champion will have to play and beat at least two top 15 ranked teams in its schedule to qualify or the spot goes to a seventh at large team. In which case no G5 team will ever rank higher than 16th.

It’s going to be an uphill climb securing that 6th playoff spot for the G5 teams.

lol. No. The top 6 conference champs get in. How do I know there wont be a change to the G5 access? I know that because this is not a contact negotiation. This is a contract RENEGOTIATION where a previously signed and still legally binding contract already exists. Thus---in order to change that existing contract before it expires---EVERY conference who signed it needs to agree to the changes. So---this is NOT a majority rule situation like 2012. This is a unanimous consensus situation where every single individual conference has full veto power (as does ESPN). In this case, You have the SEC, Notre Dame, and the G5 already on board. Everyone got something. There are still financial details to hammer out---but I dont see the P5 walking away from an extra billion a year over the G5 slot (especially after all the red ink spilled on every every P5 athletic budget in Covid 2020).
(This post was last modified: 06-15-2021 11:44 PM by Attackcoog.)
06-15-2021 11:39 PM
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GoOwls111 Offline
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Post: #223
RE: CFP Expansion in 2 Years?
(06-15-2021 10:01 PM)Acres Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 12:37 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 12:35 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

P6?

This is far from over. There is deliberate push in the media against this proposal especially as it relates to the G5. Now that this proposal is heading to the full management committee deliberations this Thursday, I expect changes that will add conditions to G5 participation in the playoffs. For instance the highest rated conference champion will have to play and beat at least two top 15 ranked teams in its schedule to qualify or the spot goes to a seventh at large team. In which case no G5 team will ever rank higher than 16th.

It’s going to be an uphill climb securing that 6th playoff spot for the G5 teams.

WOW... An interesting interpretation of what has transpired in the past week
06-16-2021 06:12 AM
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TripleA Offline
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Post: #224
RE: CFP Expansion in 2 Years?
(06-15-2021 11:39 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(06-15-2021 10:01 PM)Acres Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 12:37 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 12:35 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

P6?

This is far from over. There is deliberate push in the media against this proposal especially as it relates to the G5. Now that this proposal is heading to the full management committee deliberations this Thursday, I expect changes that will add conditions to G5 participation in the playoffs. For instance the highest rated conference champion will have to play and beat at least two top 15 ranked teams in its schedule to qualify or the spot goes to a seventh at large team. In which case no G5 team will ever rank higher than 16th.

It’s going to be an uphill climb securing that 6th playoff spot for the G5 teams.

lol. No. The top 6 conference champs get in. How do I know there wont be a change to the G5 access? I know that because this is not a contact negotiation. This is a contract RENEGOTIATION where a previously signed and still legally binding contract already exists. Thus---in order to change that existing contract before it expires---EVERY conference who signed it needs to agree to the changes. So---this is NOT a majority rule situation like 2012. This is a unanimous consensus situation where every single individual conference has full veto power (as does ESPN). In this case, You have the SEC, Notre Dame, and the G5 already on board. Everyone got something. There are still financial details to hammer out---but I dont see the P5 walking away from an extra billion a year over the G5 slot (especially after all the red ink spilled on every every P5 athletic budget in Covid 2020).

TWO billion, thank you.

https://apnews.com/article/college-sport...841cfb9b40

The 6th slot also deters any potential anti-trust legislation.
(This post was last modified: 06-16-2021 06:36 AM by TripleA.)
06-16-2021 06:35 AM
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Cubanbull1 Offline
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Post: #225
RE: CFP Expansion in 2 Years?
I think the big question that we do not have an answer yet is how the projected 2 billion CFP deal money will be split.

I think is pretty safe to say as someone posted above that to avoid anti-trust laws and to throw a bone to appease the current outside 5, that 6 champions access will go thru without any extra hurdles.

Right now the P5 on paper get about 60 million regardless of whether their teams make playoffs or not and another 60 million gets split among the nonP5

So each P5 gets 60 million and each nonP5 gets 12 million. You then have each NY6 bowl team getting 4 million.

I’m going to be interested to see the distribution of this money and if they are going to specify money going to different conferences outside of playoffs participants.
06-16-2021 08:31 AM
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Cubanbull1 Offline
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Post: #226
RE: CFP Expansion in 2 Years?
Assuming a 2 billion CFP deal. I could see them splitting it in a similar form as they do now.

So 10 FBS Conferences each gets 48 million for 480 million
12 playoffs teams each 120 million= 1,440 million

Now that playoff money could be split depending on games played, won or just for making the playoff.

Assuming last method to make it easier.

A 12 team league with no playoff participant gets 48 million or 4 million per team. Right now a G5 leagues gets a bit more than 1 million and the one taking NY6 bowl gets about 1.5 million per team.

A league with no playoffs gets 48 million or 4 million per team in a 12 team league
A league with 1 playoff team gets 168 million or 14 million per team in a 12 team league
A league with 2 playoff teams gets 288 million or 24 million per team
A league that gets 3 playoff teams gets 408 million or 34 million per team.

You would probably see independents getting 1 million a year and maybe 12 million for making playoffs
(This post was last modified: 06-16-2021 09:36 AM by Cubanbull1.)
06-16-2021 09:36 AM
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knightmite Offline
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Post: #227
RE: CFP Expansion in 2 Years?
(06-10-2021 06:44 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  There is always a catch. CFP will expand to 12 but something ridiculous will be included.

CFP expand to 12…. but P5 is breaking away from FBS and the G5 won’t be allowed to play in any CFP bowl games.

CFP expand to 12…. but they are reducing the regular season to eliminate OOC games.

I don't think that will happen. There is a huge number of college football fans that are currently disenfranchised with the P5 cartel. Expanding to a real all inclusive playoff system will energize viewership across all conferences which potentially help everyone earn more money. College football has been losing viewers for years and this should go a long way to turn it around if it is done right.
06-16-2021 11:01 AM
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Memphis Yankee Offline
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Post: #228
RE: CFP Expansion in 2 Years?
(06-15-2021 10:01 PM)Acres Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 12:37 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 12:35 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

P6?

This is far from over. There is deliberate push in the media against this proposal especially as it relates to the G5. Now that this proposal is heading to the full management committee deliberations this Thursday, I expect changes that will add conditions to G5 participation in the playoffs. For instance the highest rated conference champion will have to play and beat at least two top 15 ranked teams in its schedule to qualify or the spot goes to a seventh at large team. In which case no G5 team will ever rank higher than 16th.

It’s going to be an uphill climb securing that 6th playoff spot for the G5 teams.

That would be bull****. Nobody that is normally in the top 15 will schedule any AAC/MWC teams for them to even have a chance. Which brings us back to anti-trust. Quite a risk just to try and secure one more spot for the Diva's.
(This post was last modified: 06-16-2021 11:53 AM by Memphis Yankee.)
06-16-2021 11:52 AM
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panama Offline
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Post: #229
RE: CFP Expansion in 2 Years?
(06-15-2021 10:01 PM)Acres Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 12:37 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 12:35 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

P6?

This is far from over. There is deliberate push in the media against this proposal especially as it relates to the G5. Now that this proposal is heading to the full management committee deliberations this Thursday, I expect changes that will add conditions to G5 participation in the playoffs. For instance the highest rated conference champion will have to play and beat at least two top 15 ranked teams in its schedule to qualify or the spot goes to a seventh at large team. In which case no G5 team will ever rank higher than 16th.

It’s going to be an uphill climb securing that 6th playoff spot for the G5 teams.
Nobody cares about the G5. This expansion is about a money grab and more P5s in te playoffs for a more exciting tournament.
06-16-2021 01:42 PM
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usffan Offline
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Post: #230
RE: CFP Expansion in 2 Years?
(06-16-2021 01:42 PM)panama Wrote:  Nobody cares about the G5. This expansion is about a money grab and more P5s in te playoffs for a more exciting tournament.

https://www.si.com/college/2021/06/16/co...-teams-why

Quote:In the early days, they established one very important goal: grant access, in some way, to the Group of 5.

Look, I'm under no delusion that that was the single most important thing, but I think they all knew there was backlash because of teams being excluded, which alienated a significant portion of college football fans, and any challenges (regardless of how realistic those challenges were) about the legitimacy of the CFP champion. In this regard, I truly think Central Florida's 2017 run precipitated this.

USFFan
06-16-2021 01:48 PM
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usffan Offline
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Post: #231
RE: CFP Expansion in 2 Years?
(06-16-2021 01:48 PM)usffan Wrote:  
(06-16-2021 01:42 PM)panama Wrote:  Nobody cares about the G5. This expansion is about a money grab and more P5s in te playoffs for a more exciting tournament.

https://www.si.com/college/2021/06/16/co...-teams-why

Quote:In the early days, they established one very important goal: grant access, in some way, to the Group of 5.

Look, I'm under no delusion that that was the single most important thing, but I think they all knew there was backlash because of teams being excluded, which alienated a significant portion of college football fans, and any challenges (regardless of how realistic those challenges were) about the legitimacy of the CFP champion. In this regard, I truly think Central Florida's 2017 run precipitated this.

USFFan

In fact, here's an article that more or less says the same thing...

https://slate.com/culture/2021/06/colleg...posal.html

Quote:2017’s UCF squad, for example, finished undefeated and had a No. 1 ranking in a former BCS computer that the NCAA still recognized as one of many title selectors, but the school hadn’t been chosen to play in the four-team Playoff. So UCF decided to spend the summer throwing itself parades, claiming a split championship with Playoff winner Alabama. And based on decades of college football precedent—including bullsh1t old titles claimed by Bama itself—this ridiculous stunt was perfectly fair. But under the expansion, the UCFs of the world would actually have to beat the Alabamas in order to have legit title claims (which yes, may be more like a curse than a gift).

USFFan
06-16-2021 01:51 PM
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GoOwls111 Offline
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Post: #232
RE: CFP Expansion in 2 Years?
(06-16-2021 06:35 AM)TripleA Wrote:  
(06-15-2021 11:39 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(06-15-2021 10:01 PM)Acres Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 12:37 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 12:35 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

P6?

This is far from over. There is deliberate push in the media against this proposal especially as it relates to the G5. Now that this proposal is heading to the full management committee deliberations this Thursday, I expect changes that will add conditions to G5 participation in the playoffs. For instance the highest rated conference champion will have to play and beat at least two top 15 ranked teams in its schedule to qualify or the spot goes to a seventh at large team. In which case no G5 team will ever rank higher than 16th.

It’s going to be an uphill climb securing that 6th playoff spot for the G5 teams.

lol. No. The top 6 conference champs get in. How do I know there wont be a change to the G5 access? I know that because this is not a contact negotiation. This is a contract RENEGOTIATION where a previously signed and still legally binding contract already exists. Thus---in order to change that existing contract before it expires---EVERY conference who signed it needs to agree to the changes. So---this is NOT a majority rule situation like 2012. This is a unanimous consensus situation where every single individual conference has full veto power (as does ESPN). In this case, You have the SEC, Notre Dame, and the G5 already on board. Everyone got something. There are still financial details to hammer out---but I dont see the P5 walking away from an extra billion a year over the G5 slot (especially after all the red ink spilled on every every P5 athletic budget in Covid 2020).

TWO billion, thank you.

https://apnews.com/article/college-sport...841cfb9b40

The 6th slot also deters any potential anti-trust legislation.

2 POINTS:

1. Lack of competition in current format (Narrative for changes)
2. Inclusion of more FBS Conferences/teams in playoffs (The real reason: Greed and fear of potential anti-trust legislation.)
(This post was last modified: 06-16-2021 02:58 PM by GoOwls111.)
06-16-2021 01:57 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #233
RE: CFP Expansion in 2 Years?
(06-16-2021 09:36 AM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  Assuming a 2 billion CFP deal. I could see them splitting it in a similar form as they do now.

So 10 FBS Conferences each gets 48 million for 480 million
12 playoffs teams each 120 million= 1,440 million

Now that playoff money could be split depending on games played, won or just for making the playoff.

Assuming last method to make it easier.

A 12 team league with no playoff participant gets 48 million or 4 million per team. Right now a G5 leagues gets a bit more than 1 million and the one taking NY6 bowl gets about 1.5 million per team.

A league with no playoffs gets 48 million or 4 million per team in a 12 team league
A league with 1 playoff team gets 168 million or 14 million per team in a 12 team league
A league with 2 playoff teams gets 288 million or 24 million per team
A league that gets 3 playoff teams gets 408 million or 34 million per team.

You would probably see independents getting 1 million a year and maybe 12 million for making playoffs

I think ONE HUGE difference is the AAC is going to demand that it be compensated independently of the G4.
06-16-2021 02:21 PM
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Foreverandever Offline
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Post: #234
RE: CFP Expansion in 2 Years?
(06-16-2021 02:21 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(06-16-2021 09:36 AM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  Assuming a 2 billion CFP deal. I could see them splitting it in a similar form as they do now.

So 10 FBS Conferences each gets 48 million for 480 million
12 playoffs teams each 120 million= 1,440 million

Now that playoff money could be split depending on games played, won or just for making the playoff.

Assuming last method to make it easier.

A 12 team league with no playoff participant gets 48 million or 4 million per team. Right now a G5 leagues gets a bit more than 1 million and the one taking NY6 bowl gets about 1.5 million per team.

A league with no playoffs gets 48 million or 4 million per team in a 12 team league
A league with 1 playoff team gets 168 million or 14 million per team in a 12 team league
A league with 2 playoff teams gets 288 million or 24 million per team
A league that gets 3 playoff teams gets 408 million or 34 million per team.

You would probably see independents getting 1 million a year and maybe 12 million for making playoffs

I think ONE HUGE difference is the AAC is going to demand that it be compensated independently of the G4.

Yup, my assumption here is it will be rigged slightly in the p5 for basis. So you'll see 30m awarded to the non-A5 teams, 66m to A5 as a base pay.

Then top 4 seeds will get an extra free share to make up for the lost home game revenue. So like the NCAA one share for making it. One bonus share for quarters, two bonus shares for semi, then a third bonus for the two finalists with the winner getting a fourth share.

Basically doing it that way means they will get the vast majority of the extra money generated and "earned" it. In reality the committee will only put A5 champs as byes and 11/12 spots will always go to the A5.

In the above scenario they make more on base and then take home 26/27 shares if the nonA5 loses. The AAC will agree because it means overall more money for us and actually opportunity at access, so will the other nonA5 schools. What would be big is if the nonA5 can swing it so that 1) the two conference champs with out a bye get a home game 2) base pay outs are based on performance, with out that this is all just window dressing around one real slim chance.
(This post was last modified: 06-16-2021 02:38 PM by Foreverandever.)
06-16-2021 02:35 PM
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Cubanbull1 Offline
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Post: #235
RE: CFP Expansion in 2 Years?
(06-16-2021 02:35 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  
(06-16-2021 02:21 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(06-16-2021 09:36 AM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  Assuming a 2 billion CFP deal. I could see them splitting it in a similar form as they do now.

So 10 FBS Conferences each gets 48 million for 480 million
12 playoffs teams each 120 million= 1,440 million

Now that playoff money could be split depending on games played, won or just for making the playoff.

Assuming last method to make it easier.

A 12 team league with no playoff participant gets 48 million or 4 million per team. Right now a G5 leagues gets a bit more than 1 million and the one taking NY6 bowl gets about 1.5 million per team.

A league with no playoffs gets 48 million or 4 million per team in a 12 team league
A league with 1 playoff team gets 168 million or 14 million per team in a 12 team league
A league with 2 playoff teams gets 288 million or 24 million per team
A league that gets 3 playoff teams gets 408 million or 34 million per team.

You would probably see independents getting 1 million a year and maybe 12 million for making playoffs

I think ONE HUGE difference is the AAC is going to demand that it be compensated independently of the G4.

Yup, my assumption here is it will be rigged slightly in the p5 for basis. So you'll see 30m awarded to the non-A5 teams, 66m to A5 as a base pay.

Then top 4 seeds will get an extra free share to make up for the lost home game revenue. So like the NCAA one share for making it. One bonus share for quarters, two bonus shares for semi, then a third bonus for the two finalists with the winner getting a fourth share.

Basically doing it that way means they will get the vast majority of the extra money generated and "earned" it. In reality the committee will only put A5 champs as byes and 11/12 spots will always go to the A5.

In the above scenario they make more on base and then take home 26/27 shares if the nonA5 loses. The AAC will agree because it means overall more money for us and actually opportunity at access, so will the other nonA5 schools. What would be big is if the nonA5 can swing it so that 1) the two conference champs with out a bye get a home game 2) base pay outs are based on performance, with out that this is all just window dressing around one real slim chance.

I am going to guess that they will throw away the P and G designations but still separate money by who makes the playoffs and performance.

That’s why under the process I stated there is NO P or G mention but the reality is that the current P5 still get most of the money and access 11 out of 12 playoffs spots. The current G4 would get 4 million per team and the access to that 6 championship slot access so they will be happy because is better than current deal.
The AAC of it continues to get that sixt slot in most years would get about 14 million per team on most years which is more than the current 2 million per team they get with NY6 spot.
The current P5 assuming two playoffs spots will get about 24 million per team. Which is better than what they get now even with the 66 million per keague guaranteed.
Now that’s just my proposed plan, I’m sure the actual one will not look l8ke that, but it will have some similarities because it eliminates the Power and Group terms while still getting most of access and money
06-16-2021 03:16 PM
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KnightLight Offline
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Post: #236
RE: CFP Expansion in 2 Years?
(06-16-2021 01:51 PM)usffan Wrote:  
Quote:2017’s UCF squad, for example, finished undefeated and had a No. 1 ranking in a former BCS computer that the NCAA still recognized as one of many title selectors, but the school hadn’t been chosen to play in the four-team Playoff. So UCF decided to spend the summer throwing itself parades, claiming a split championship with Playoff winner Alabama. And based on decades of college football precedent—including bullsh1t old titles claimed by Bama itself—this ridiculous stunt was perfectly fair. But under the expansion, the UCFs of the world would actually have to beat the Alabamas in order to have legit title claims (which yes, may be more like a curse than a gift).

USFFan

I think it was more from 2018....when UCF had won back-to-back undefeated seasons (25 straight wins), yet the CFP Committee only had UCF ranked #8.

No doubt the 2017 team made a lot of noise but when past "G5" teams had reached #3 (TCU and Boise St) in past seasons of the BCS, after 25 straight wins...the "human" CFP only puts you at #8...that just shows there wasn't ANY path to get to a Final Four...and obviously how unfair it was so at least now they open up 1 spot for a G5 while giving 7 other P5 teams a shot too.

Former UCF AD Danny White would push for Expanded Playoffs in basically every interview he got for those 2 years and after the 2018...he had a lot more "P5" leaders and even those in the media behind him.
(This post was last modified: 06-16-2021 04:44 PM by KnightLight.)
06-16-2021 04:42 PM
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