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pvk75 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Playoff Expansion - 12 Teams
Don't like to agree on this one, but got to with randyfensclub1 and Bid Red ... I peruse all the CSNBBS boards and some other college forums and a half dozen college sports websites, and the MAC is very rarely mentioned as a factor anywhere on any subject. Even the other G5s don't mention the MAC, except to say "pffft."

The MAC is going nowhere and NIU is stuck. The MAC is a happy little conference playing in its happy little back yards happily picking the low-hanging fruit. Best we should stay focused on the Huskies and what NIU can do for itself. Listen to what Hammock said in the Victor E. Bash talk-around.

Hopefully, some time go 12-0, win the CCG and beat out the other G5s champs for that CFP spot (in new format). OK, a dream, but ... If not, get in the Quick Lane Bowl vs. Big10 or ACC (TV wouldn't dare ignore it). Get some NCAA MBB and WBB tourney bids. Keep building Olympic sports (not that expensive, and NIU is already good). "A rising tide lifts all boats," so, lift all boats.

Am I being too optimistic here?

GO HUSKIES !
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2021 09:48 AM by pvk75.)
06-11-2021 09:13 AM
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Rabid Squirrel Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Playoff Expansion - 12 Teams
(06-11-2021 08:46 AM)7 Wrote:  
(06-11-2021 08:40 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 10:34 PM)randyfensfanclub1 Wrote:  RE: Why Group of 5 playoff won't happen from "Forbes" (2016 thread)
You sign for your own "G5 Championship" say good bye to any bowls, good bye the NY day six game and any inclusion by P5. Pretty simple. You need to wait a few years when they go to 8/12 teams and I can pretty much guarantee you will have a playoff with the G5 leftovers when they basically become 4 conferences. They will have to. Until then be happy you have the chance at a piece of the pie, you have bowl tie ins and an actual contract with ESPN to show MAC crap.

So 5 yrs later, they will go to 12, have the 5 G5 (which should have become 4) vying for the 1 automatic spot because the 1st 5 will be P12,B10,B12,ACC,SEC every year. And MAC will likely very rarely get one of the next 6, if ever, due to SOS, or there lack of.

Should be 4 non-p5 (G5) conf winners play and 2 winners advance(Or maybe 2 highest conf winners rated, then next 2 highest rated) and based on SOS, get seeded, likely 11 and 12 and play 1-2.

I don't see MAC beating out anyone for the 1 spot, especially with AAC, MW regularly or even SunBelt as of late.

I was running that scenario in my head yesterday. G5 has a “play-in” game similar to March madness. 4 G5 conf champs face off. 2 advance into real playoff. It’s still a joke to think any Mac, SBC,MWC or CUSA could ever win it all. It’s why I prefer a separate 16 team G5 playoff. But that would be next best thing - to just continue kidding ourselves we are competing with the top of the P5
Short of money, I don’t know why NIU would want a G5 playoff. If you run the table, you’re going to have a good shot to make the playoff. No reason to add more hoops to jump through.

You’re playing for that 1 in 50 year scenario. I’d be happier with a chance to reach a G5 playoff every few seasons.
06-11-2021 09:49 AM
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pvk75 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Playoff Expansion - 12 Teams
And become what ... FCS I (and drop current FCS to FCS II ... or merge)? You are then ceding the G5 conference champ CFP bid to the AAC. And no way in hell are you going to get the Sun Belt or Mountain West to go along with that. You think San Diego State and Colorado State will buy in? Yeah, that's why they and UAB and ODU and App State are spending or have spent bazillions on new football stadiums. Add Georgia Southern, Georgia State, Coastal Carolina, FIU, FAU, Marshall and a host of others. Remember, NIU's own STF floated the G5 playoff idea a few years ago and got slammed by the other G5s. They want up, not down. There's plenty out there to grab other than that 1-in-50 chance you mentioned.

I for one favor NIU building up what it has and what it is, and stop making incremental (and often not-so-smart) moves. Start by paying attention too ALL the donors and potential donors. ALL the donors and potential donors. Refine specific projects so people who have an interest are attracted. Use marketing tools to pitch to them (and corporates). And stop making a plan and then throwing it under the bus; inconsistency attracts no one.
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2021 10:37 AM by pvk75.)
06-11-2021 10:33 AM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Playoff Expansion - 12 Teams
(06-11-2021 08:46 AM)7 Wrote:  
(06-11-2021 08:40 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 10:34 PM)randyfensfanclub1 Wrote:  RE: Why Group of 5 playoff won't happen from "Forbes" (2016 thread)
You sign for your own "G5 Championship" say good bye to any bowls, good bye the NY day six game and any inclusion by P5. Pretty simple. You need to wait a few years when they go to 8/12 teams and I can pretty much guarantee you will have a playoff with the G5 leftovers when they basically become 4 conferences. They will have to. Until then be happy you have the chance at a piece of the pie, you have bowl tie ins and an actual contract with ESPN to show MAC crap.

So 5 yrs later, they will go to 12, have the 5 G5 (which should have become 4) vying for the 1 automatic spot because the 1st 5 will be P12,B10,B12,ACC,SEC every year. And MAC will likely very rarely get one of the next 6, if ever, due to SOS, or there lack of.

Should be 4 non-p5 (G5) conf winners play and 2 winners advance(Or maybe 2 highest conf winners rated, then next 2 highest rated) and based on SOS, get seeded, likely 11 and 12 and play 1-2.

I don't see MAC beating out anyone for the 1 spot, especially with AAC, MW regularly or even SunBelt as of late.

I was running that scenario in my head yesterday. G5 has a “play-in” game similar to March madness. 4 G5 conf champs face off. 2 advance into real playoff. It’s still a joke to think any Mac, SBC,MWC or CUSA could ever win it all. It’s why I prefer a separate 16 team G5 playoff. But that would be next best thing - to just continue kidding ourselves we are competing with the top of the P5
Short of money, I don’t know why NIU would want a G5 playoff. If you run the table, you’re going to have a good shot to make the playoff. No reason to add more hoops to jump through.

I think STF is the only person in the G5 that wants a G5 playoff.
06-11-2021 11:08 AM
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epasnoopy Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Playoff Expansion - 12 Teams
If the G5 conference commissioners are doing anything besides simply agreeing to this new plan and being grateful that we get one spot then they have no spines.

Accepting this plan will not lead to every FBS champion getting a spot in the playoff somewhere down the road.

We either demand it now or it's not happening later.

FBS college football, the only college sport where your conference champion does not get a spot in the playoff.
06-11-2021 11:29 AM
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BDB5yp Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Playoff Expansion - 12 Teams
(06-11-2021 11:08 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(06-11-2021 08:46 AM)7 Wrote:  
(06-11-2021 08:40 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 10:34 PM)randyfensfanclub1 Wrote:  RE: Why Group of 5 playoff won't happen from "Forbes" (2016 thread)
You sign for your own "G5 Championship" say good bye to any bowls, good bye the NY day six game and any inclusion by P5. Pretty simple. You need to wait a few years when they go to 8/12 teams and I can pretty much guarantee you will have a playoff with the G5 leftovers when they basically become 4 conferences. They will have to. Until then be happy you have the chance at a piece of the pie, you have bowl tie ins and an actual contract with ESPN to show MAC crap.

So 5 yrs later, they will go to 12, have the 5 G5 (which should have become 4) vying for the 1 automatic spot because the 1st 5 will be P12,B10,B12,ACC,SEC every year. And MAC will likely very rarely get one of the next 6, if ever, due to SOS, or there lack of.

Should be 4 non-p5 (G5) conf winners play and 2 winners advance(Or maybe 2 highest conf winners rated, then next 2 highest rated) and based on SOS, get seeded, likely 11 and 12 and play 1-2.

I don't see MAC beating out anyone for the 1 spot, especially with AAC, MW regularly or even SunBelt as of late.

I was running that scenario in my head yesterday. G5 has a “play-in” game similar to March madness. 4 G5 conf champs face off. 2 advance into real playoff. It’s still a joke to think any Mac, SBC,MWC or CUSA could ever win it all. It’s why I prefer a separate 16 team G5 playoff. But that would be next best thing - to just continue kidding ourselves we are competing with the top of the P5
Short of money, I don’t know why NIU would want a G5 playoff. If you run the table, you’re going to have a good shot to make the playoff. No reason to add more hoops to jump through.

I think STF is the only person in the G5 that wants a G5 playoff.

This topic is really picking up steam, huh? STF’s word definitely is respected amongst the G5. Hope it happens!
06-11-2021 11:29 AM
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NIUfilmmaker Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Playoff Expansion - 12 Teams
I like the current 12-team set up I think as proposed. Lock it in, then fight for a future expansion that includes all FBS conference champions. Assuming even the current proposal means a small bump in rev$ to NIU?
06-11-2021 01:00 PM
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Rabid Squirrel Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Playoff Expansion - 12 Teams
I know STF isn’t a favorite here, but maybe he sees the writing on the wall for NIU. The Huskies were like 130th in revenue and 125th in attendance..something like that? What do you build that up to? 110th with hard work? The G5 playoff idea is to keep NIU out of the FCS because they might not be FBS for much longer. Here’s why I don’t like the FBS playoff farce:l for G5 schools.

Standard FBS team goals now:
1-division
2-conference
3-bowl
4-NY6
5-playoff
6-National championship

For NIU before the season even starts #6 is eliminated.
After 1 loss #5
After second loss #4 is eliminated

19/20 seasons your biggest realistic goal is a bowl game that means nothing.

With a G5 playoff:

1-division
2-conference
3-G5 playoff
4-G5 championship
5-Bowl

All these goals are achievable with a two or even 3 loss season[/u]. Every year all your goals are realistic. Not the current FBS lie sold to G5 fans.
06-11-2021 02:36 PM
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pvk75 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Playoff Expansion - 12 Teams
You make some good points -- and while not a big fan of STF, at least he had thoughts on this a couple years back -- but realistically the vast majority of G5 teams are not going to buy into a G5 playoff. Why should they? Just win every game they can and their CCG, and they're in the running. And this recent CFP proposal gives them new bait to chase, with the "sixth conference champion" getting an autobid.

So who then is there to participate in a G5 playoff? How many more games would that add? Some posters said when STF proposed a G5 playoff, NIU might as well drop down to FCS since it already has pretty much that same structure. (No, I am not suggesting that, just noting.)

I also don't deny NIU has some major facility problems, and low attendance and revenues do not justify the expense. But I need to ask ... if not the proposed CFP and a chance via a MACC win, where does NIU football go?
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2021 03:34 PM by pvk75.)
06-11-2021 03:32 PM
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Rabid Squirrel Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Playoff Expansion - 12 Teams
(06-11-2021 03:32 PM)pvk75 Wrote:  You make some good points -- and while not a big fan of STF, at least he had thoughts on this a couple years back -- but realistically the vast majority of G5 teams are not going to buy into a G5 playoff. Why should they? Just win every game they can and their CCG, and they're in the running. And this recent CFP proposal gives them new bait to chase, with the "sixth conference champion" getting an autobid.

So who then is there to participate in a G5 playoff? How many more games would that add? Some posters said when STF proposed a G5 playoff, NIU might as well drop down to FCS since it already has pretty much that same structure. (No, I am not suggesting that, just noting.)

I also don't deny NIU has some major facility problems, and low attendance and revenues do not justify the expense. But I need to ask ... if not the proposed CFP and a chance via a MACC win, where does NIU football go?

You just ride this FBS wave until you get dumped off. It’s a clear advantage for NIU over say ISU in recruiting. But we are in the bottom G5 conference and probably in the bottom half of that conference in terms of athletic department and support goes. So if the FBS restructures there will be plenty of MAC teams could find themselves left out. So I think STF was trying to create middle ground between FBS and FCS with the G5 playoff. Create a G5 group before the FBS dumps you down to FCS. No other G5’s wanted that because there are hardly any other G5’s in as desperate of a situation as NIU. So with no support we just stay the course and continue pretending we aren’t really just playing for conference championship. Cuz that’s all we are doing.
06-11-2021 04:06 PM
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epasnoopy Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Playoff Expansion - 12 Teams
https://theathletic.com/2645903/2021/06/...g-problem/

Quote:TCU coach Gary Patterson estimated that only six programs had been invited to the College Football Playoff since its inception in 2014. The reality is that 11 different schools have reached the Playoff, but it’s hard to blame him for feeling as though it’s always the same six teams competing for a national title.

You know the six: Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, Oklahoma, LSU and Georgia.

Quote:Here’s an amazing stat: 55 of the top 100 players in the 247Sports Composite of the Class of 2021 went to one of the aforementioned six schools.

Quote:Money talks. And the voice is loud.

“There is only one sales pitch a prospect really wants to hear,” a MAC recruiting coordinator said. “It’s about how you can turn them into a pro.”

Quote:In the end, though, it likely will still be the same six teams battling it out at the end because winning is about having the best players.
(This post was last modified: 06-12-2021 10:45 AM by epasnoopy.)
06-12-2021 10:44 AM
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epasnoopy Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Playoff Expansion - 12 Teams
https://theathletic.com/2646301/2021/06/...tle-hunts/

Quote:2012

1. Alabama
2. Kansas State
3. Stanford
4. Florida State

No. 12 Boise State vs. No. 5 Notre Dame (at-large)
No. 11 Northern Illinois vs. No. 6 Florida (at-large)
No. 10 Texas A&M (at-large) vs. No. 7 Oregon (at-large)
No. 9 LSU (at-large) vs. No. 8 Georgia (at-large)

This one is fascinating. First of all, it’s one of those years that Greg Sankey dreams about when he backs a 12-team playoff instead of an eight-team model. Here’s five SEC teams in the field (and South Carolina almost makes it in) with a great shot at four advancing to the quarterfinals. We know Johnny Manziel makes Texas A&M the team nobody wants to play, too, and they could definitely go far. Notre Dame is supposed to be the No. 1 seed but gets a much tougher path to the title game. The top-four seed rules force some odd rearranging, as three at-large teams finished in the BCS top four. Florida State, for example, should be the No. 10 seed but gets to vault all the way up to No. 4 as a conference champion.

Keep in mind, this is also the year when undefeated Ohio State is serving a postseason ban and an 8-6 Wisconsin team destroys Nebraska in the Big Ten title game. So the Big Ten is not getting into this playoff, opening up room for both No. 15 Northern Illinois and No. 19 Boise State to earn spots with No. 21 Louisville barely missing out.
06-12-2021 10:54 AM
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NorthCoast Away
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Post: #33
RE: Playoff Expansion - 12 Teams
(06-10-2021 06:38 PM)epasnoopy Wrote:  Anything less than every conference champion getting a spot in the playoff is not good enough.

(06-11-2021 11:29 AM)epasnoopy Wrote:  If the G5 conference commissioners are doing anything besides simply agreeing to this new plan and being grateful that we get one spot then they have no spines.

Accepting this plan will not lead to every FBS champion getting a spot in the playoff somewhere down the road.

We either demand it now or it's not happening later.

FBS college football, the only college sport where your conference champion does not get a spot in the playoff.

03-thumbsup This guy gets it.
06-12-2021 10:55 AM
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NorthCoast Away
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Post: #34
RE: Playoff Expansion - 12 Teams
(06-12-2021 10:54 AM)epasnoopy Wrote:  https://theathletic.com/2646301/2021/06/...tle-hunts/

Quote:2012

1. Alabama
2. Kansas State
3. Stanford
4. Florida State

No. 12 Boise State vs. No. 5 Notre Dame (at-large)
No. 11 NIU vs. No. 6 Florida (at-large)
No. 10 Texas A&M (at-large) vs. No. 7 Oregon (at-large)
No. 9 LSU (at-large) vs. No. 8 Georgia (at-large)

This one is fascinating. First of all, it’s one of those years that Greg Sankey dreams about when he backs a 12-team playoff instead of an eight-team model. Here’s five SEC teams in the field (and South Carolina almost makes it in) with a great shot at four advancing to the quarterfinals. We know Johnny Manziel makes Texas A&M the team nobody wants to play, too, and they could definitely go far. Notre Dame is supposed to be the No. 1 seed but gets a much tougher path to the title game. The top-four seed rules force some odd rearranging, as three at-large teams finished in the BCS top four. Florida State, for example, should be the No. 10 seed but gets to vault all the way up to No. 4 as a conference champion.

Keep in mind, this is also the year when undefeated Ohio State is serving a postseason ban and an 8-6 Wisconsin team destroys Nebraska in the Big Ten title game. So the Big Ten is not getting into this playoff, opening up room for both No. 15 NIU and No. 19 Boise State to earn spots with No. 21 Louisville barely missing out.

And it starts. Propaganda machine rolling already.

Saw this “theoretical” argument coming a mile away. It’s pure bûllshit.

“In theory” FOUR non-Cartel conference teams/Champs can get into the current playoff structure but anyone with two brain cells to rub together can tell you it ain’t never happening. But that doesn’t stop them from trotting out this garbage.

They attempt to skirt around the anti-trust issues by not offering automatic bids to the Cartel Conferences and instead go with “Top six” conference champs. Except who gets to define what the “Top six” are?

Make no mistake about it, a system without auto-bids for EVERY Conference Champion is no less corrupt and no more equitable.

This proposal amounts to nothing more than two at-large selections. In a field of 130 (or whatever the current number is) FBS teams, the first half of the 12-team playoff pool is essentially an AT-LARGE SELECTION of six teams from a pool of ten. The four not selected then get returned to the pool and the second pull is six AT-LARGE SELECTIONS from a pool of the remaining 124 teams.

Any system that is allowed to arbitrarily discriminate one Conference Champion from another when it comes to inclusion to the playoff, has no place in an organization that proclaimed, in front of the US Congress, to provide “fair national competition.”

“Fair national competition,” HA! What a joke. Not in FBS football.

EQUALITY for all ten Conference Champions. Anything less is corrupt and illegal, considering the protected NON-PROFIT status of the NCAA.

DEMAND WHAT IS JUST!
06-12-2021 11:47 AM
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Rabid Squirrel Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Playoff Expansion - 12 Teams
(06-12-2021 10:55 AM)NorthCoast Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 06:38 PM)epasnoopy Wrote:  Anything less than every conference champion getting a spot in the playoff is not good enough.

(06-11-2021 11:29 AM)epasnoopy Wrote:  If the G5 conference commissioners are doing anything besides simply agreeing to this new plan and being grateful that we get one spot then they have no spines.

Accepting this plan will not lead to every FBS champion getting a spot in the playoff somewhere down the road.

We either demand it now or it's not happening later.

FBS college football, the only college sport where your conference champion does not get a spot in the playoff.

03-thumbsup This guy gets it.

No way all G5 conf champs get in even at 16 team playoff. No network wants to burn one of Bama’s, OSU’s, Clemson’s or LSU’s 3 post season games on Ball state when it could get Wisconsin, Penn state, Florida or USC instead. At best they’ll make the G5 champs play each other for just one spot.
06-12-2021 12:12 PM
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Post: #36
RE: Playoff Expansion - 12 Teams
(06-11-2021 07:41 AM)Big Red Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 10:34 PM)randyfensfanclub1 Wrote:  RE: Why Group of 5 playoff won't happen from "Forbes" (2016 thread)
You sign for your own "G5 Championship" say good bye to any bowls, good bye the NY day six game and any inclusion by P5. Pretty simple. You need to wait a few years when they go to 8/12 teams and I can pretty much guarantee you will have a playoff with the G5 leftovers when they basically become 4 conferences. They will have to. Until then be happy you have the chance at a piece of the pie, you have bowl tie ins and an actual contract with ESPN to show MAC crap.

So 5 yrs later, they will go to 12, have the 5 G5 (which should have become 4) vying for the 1 automatic spot because the 1st 5 will be P12,B10,B12,ACC,SEC every year. And MAC will likely very rarely get one of the next 6, if ever, due to SOS, or there lack of.

Should be 4 non-p5 (G5) conf winners play and 2 winners advance(Or maybe 2 highest conf winners rated, then next 2 highest rated) and based on SOS, get seeded, likely 11 and 12 and play 1-2.

I don't see MAC beating out anyone for the 1 spot, especially with AAC, MW regularly or even SunBelt as of late.

There was a time when the Sun Belt was the worst (kinda harsh to say, but someone technically has to be the "worst") conference in FBS, but those days have passed and nowadays, that "worst" conference is pretty clearly the MAC.

Sad but true.

They gambled on some FCS/DII and it worked out well.

God forbid the unrest on here at even the thought of taking in a 'lower level" school. 01-lauramac2
(This post was last modified: 06-12-2021 08:21 PM by randyfensfanclub1.)
06-12-2021 08:19 PM
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Post: #37
RE: Playoff Expansion - 12 Teams
This 12 team setup is good for G5 teams. The Orange Bowl NIU team would have been dancing. Same with the row the boat WMU team. It’ll probably be the AAC or MWC most years, but multiple G5 teams could make it if they are rated in the top 6 conferences.
06-13-2021 08:27 PM
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Post: #38
RE: Playoff Expansion - 12 Teams
(06-12-2021 12:12 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  
(06-12-2021 10:55 AM)NorthCoast Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 06:38 PM)epasnoopy Wrote:  Anything less than every conference champion getting a spot in the playoff is not good enough.

(06-11-2021 11:29 AM)epasnoopy Wrote:  If the G5 conference commissioners are doing anything besides simply agreeing to this new plan and being grateful that we get one spot then they have no spines.

Accepting this plan will not lead to every FBS champion getting a spot in the playoff somewhere down the road.

We either demand it now or it's not happening later.

FBS college football, the only college sport where your conference champion does not get a spot in the playoff.

03-thumbsup This guy gets it.

No way all G5 conf champs get in even at 16 team playoff. No network wants to burn one of Bama’s, OSU’s, Clemson’s or LSU’s 3 post season games on Ball state when it could get Wisconsin, Penn state, Florida or USC instead. At best they’ll make the G5 champs play each other for just one spot.

I don’t see it as an issue. ABC broadcasts Youngstown State vs Ohio State on a random Saturday in September. A first round bye against a pesky conference champion would be better than that.

The committee is doing this because 4 teams have essentially played in 75% of the 4 team playoff since it debuted. Creating a basketball like football tournament would be awesome. They will still get the Wisconsin game, just later in the tournament.
06-13-2021 08:33 PM
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