(06-11-2021 07:22 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  

(06-11-2021 01:19 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(06-11-2021 12:00 PM)esayem Wrote:  VaTech vs Louisville makes more sense than UVA vs Louisville on so many levels.

Here's what makes real sense:

Eastern Athletic Conference -

East - BC/Army/Syracuse/PSU/Rutgers
West - ND/Navy/WVa/Cincy/Pitt

ACC -

North MD/UVa/VT/UNC/WF/NCSU
South Duke/CU/SC/GT/FSU/Miami

Big 10 -

East - Ohio State/Indiana/Purdue/Michigan/MSU/NW/Ill
West - Oklahoma/Nebraska/Kansas/iowa/ISU/Minn/Wisconsin

SEC

East - Florida/Georgia/Auburn/TN/KY/Vandy/Bama/Louisville
West - Texas/TAMU/LSU/Mizzou/Ole Miss/MSU/Arkansas/TT

American

West - Baylor/BYU/SMU/OSU/KSU/AF/TCU/Houston
East - Temple/ECU/App State/Ga State/UCF/USF/Memphis/Tulane

Tulsa is S.O.L. in this scenario. App State/Ga State/Cincy/Army/AF and Navy move up relative to their current positions. KSU/OSU/Baylor/ and TCU take a half step down.

Including the P12 which remains unchanged there are 70 schools in this tier.

Army and Navy are in the EAC because their game has value, ND likes to play Navy, and they are regional partners that will not harm ND, PSU, Pitt, WVa, or Cincy football. This is the smallest conference. They can play a 5-2 and have 5 OOC games.

The ACC is restored to pre 1933 boundaries.

The Big 10 is now the Big 8 and Big 10 as they should have been.

The SEC has finished absorbing the meat of the SWC with the addition of Texas and TT in addition to the earlier bite of Arkansas and TAMU.


This will not happen but it does make the most sense.

You must like the 2004 ACC lineup then. That lineup consisted of 11 teams out of 12 schools you listed.

BC, Syracuse, and Louisville do not help with the recruiting footprint because New England, New York, and Ky/Indiana just don't produce recruits like the states of Florida, Georgia, NC, Pa, Va, and MD. Unless your are ND, Ohio State, Oregon, or USC, getting kids to move not one but two or three steps outside their cultural sweet spot is difficult.

Take the East Coast for example I would suggest the following general cultures from north to south:

1. New England - Mass/RI/Maine/NH/VT
2. The City = NYC/Connecticut/NE NJ
3. Upstate - The rest of NY State
4. Philly - S Jersery/Eastern Pa/N Delaware
5. Pennsylbama - The great PA middle
6. Yinzers - Pittsburgh to the West Va Panhandles
7. Baltimore and DC
8. Northern Va
9. Tidewater Va
10. SW Va to the Tri Cities and Southern West Va
11. Central and Eastern NC
12. Coastal SC
13. The Upstate which can include Western NC and Northern Ga
14. Atlanta
15. Eastern Georgia
16. Southern Georgia
17. Florida Panhandle which can include Floribama
18. Northern Florida
19. Tourist Florida
20. Latin Florida

Referencing the above, if you look at the literature of authors like Richard Florida and others and combine that with things like the location of the "sweet tea line", the "ma'am line", presence of black Americans, presence of German and Scotch Irish/Ulster Scot Americans, and the Baptist/Lutheran Church line you get an approximation of cultures on a very broad scale.

Nominally for people from the light blue area - the old ACC core, they see those from the Dark Blue as Yankees and those in the Dark Green as relocated Yankees and see them two steps removed from the Midland/Yinzers in Green and the traditional southerners in Red who are actually diasporad Highland and Ulster Scots and black folk.

Purple is a very deep South thing which the light blues find more alien because black or white, these folks are not like light blue folks I think due in part to hard segregation and a history of deep poverty that has been exploited over the last 150 years.

Latin Florida might as well be Venezuela or Argentina to many in the light blue area.

My point is that just on the Eastern Seaboard some of these culture differences are jarring and too much to take for some athletes and some parents. In a way it is like blood types and some regions are universal donors while some are universal recipients.

(06-11-2021 08:45 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(06-11-2021 07:19 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  

(06-11-2021 12:51 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(06-11-2021 12:00 PM)esayem Wrote:  VaTech vs Louisville makes more sense than UVA vs Louisville on so many levels.

I agree….
Louisville and VaTech started playing football in the 1970’s, through the 80’s and into the 90’s.

I believe Louisville vs. VaTech would be another good football series for The ACC. An opportunity The ACC is missing out on.

Simply schedule Virginia and Boston College every season instead of Virginia and Louisville or VaTech and Boston College.

That’s a good point but it still won’t fix the scheduling problem. VT plays Atlantic teams (other than BC) only once in seven years. The ACC needs to either drop the crossover rival or add the 9th conference game in my opinion.

VT is in the wrong division to begin with, IMO. If you look at the ACC teams the Hokies played the most before joining the conference, it looks like this (after UVA #1, of course):

ACC Opponent....1st....#games
NC State........1902....43
Wake Forest.....1916....32
Florida State...1955....31
Clemson.........1906....26
Maryland........1919....26
North Carolina..1902....22
Miami (Florida).1953....21

Maryland was replaced by Louisville, of course, but that's not the point. Do you know which ACC division all of those teams in red belong to? Yet for some reason the Hokies are NOT in that division.

Yeah, I said this from the beginning. Maryland should have been in the Coastal and VaTech in the Atlantic. UMD-BC and UVA-VT as cross-division games.

Maryland was put in a tough spot because I’m sure they wanted to play Clemson and maybe NC State yearly as well as UVA. I don’t think it would have kept them in the league, but they should have been in the Coastal from day 1.

(06-11-2021 09:05 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Referencing the above, if you look at the literature of authors like Richard Florida and others and combine that with things like the location of the "sweet tea line", the "ma'am line", presence of black Americans, presence of German and Scotch Irish/Ulster Scot Americans, and the Baptist/Lutheran Church line you get an approximation of cultures on a very broad scale.

Nominally for people from the light blue area - the old ACC core, they see those from the Dark Blue as Yankees and those in the Dark Green as relocated Yankees and see them two steps removed from the Midland/Yinzers in Green and the traditional southerners in Red who are actually diasporad Highland and Ulster Scots and black folk.

Purple is a very deep South thing which the light blues find more alien because black or white, these folks are not like light blue folks I think due in part to hard segregation and a history of deep poverty that has been exploited over the last 150 years.

Latin Florida might as well be Venezuela or Argentina to many in the light blue area.

My point is that just on the Eastern Seaboard some of these culture differences are jarring and too much to take for some athletes and some parents. In a way it is like blood types and some regions are universal donors while some are universal recipients.

Statefan, I appreciate your postings. I am a foreigner and learned quite a bit of history and cultural aspects from your postings.

It looks like Yinzers are culturally closer to the old ACC than the New England. Why did the ACC invite BC before Pitt? That move was hard to understand.

It HAS to expand. I think most everybody's getting a little tired of the Bama-Clemson-Suckeye invitational.

(06-12-2021 08:31 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(06-11-2021 08:45 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(06-11-2021 07:19 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  

(06-11-2021 12:51 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(06-11-2021 12:00 PM)esayem Wrote:  VaTech vs Louisville makes more sense than UVA vs Louisville on so many levels.

I agree….
Louisville and VaTech started playing football in the 1970’s, through the 80’s and into the 90’s.

I believe Louisville vs. VaTech would be another good football series for The ACC. An opportunity The ACC is missing out on.

Simply schedule Virginia and Boston College every season instead of Virginia and Louisville or VaTech and Boston College.

That’s a good point but it still won’t fix the scheduling problem. VT plays Atlantic teams (other than BC) only once in seven years. The ACC needs to either drop the crossover rival or add the 9th conference game in my opinion.

VT is in the wrong division to begin with, IMO. If you look at the ACC teams the Hokies played the most before joining the conference, it looks like this (after UVA #1, of course):

ACC Opponent....1st....#games
NC State........1902....43
Wake Forest.....1916....32
Florida State...1955....31
Clemson.........1906....26
Maryland........1919....26
North Carolina..1902....22
Miami (Florida).1953....21

Maryland was replaced by Louisville, of course, but that's not the point. Do you know which ACC division all of those teams in red belong to? Yet for some reason the Hokies are NOT in that division.

Yeah, I said this from the beginning. Maryland should have been in the Coastal and VaTech in the Atlantic. UMD-BC and UVA-VT as cross-division games.

Maryland was put in a tough spot because I’m sure they wanted to play Clemson and maybe NC State yearly as well as UVA. I don’t think it would have kept them in the league, but they should have been in the Coastal from day 1.

Yeah I think UMCP would have been much happier in the Coastal.

Also if the ACC had gotten Pitt as the 12th, UMCP may have developed a decent rivalry with Pitt. Pittsburgh is much closer to College Park than Boston. With VT joining the ACC and becoming UVa’s closest conference rival, UMCP may have felt that they lost some of conference rivalry.

(06-12-2021 09:25 AM)random asian guy Wrote:  Statefan, I appreciate your postings. I am a foreigner and learned quite a bit of history and cultural aspects from your postings.

It looks like Yinzers are culturally closer to the old ACC than the New England. Why did the ACC invite BC before Pitt? That move was hard to understand.

Miami-Boston College connection?

(06-11-2021 12:51 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(06-11-2021 12:00 PM)esayem Wrote:  VaTech vs Louisville makes more sense than UVA vs Louisville on so many levels.

I agree….
Louisville and VaTech started playing football in the 1970’s, through the 80’s and into the 90’s.

I believe Louisville vs. VaTech would be another good football series for The ACC. An opportunity The ACC is missing out on.

Simply schedule Virginia and Boston College every season instead of Virginia and Louisville or VaTech and Boston College.

^^^^
THIS!!!

Been away for a LONG while but Louisville not playing Virginia Tech is beyond ridiculous. I really like the new Playoff setup...now get rid of the Divisions so we can see more of the ACC in Football

(06-12-2021 08:31 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(06-11-2021 08:45 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(06-11-2021 07:19 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  

(06-11-2021 12:51 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(06-11-2021 12:00 PM)esayem Wrote:  VaTech vs Louisville makes more sense than UVA vs Louisville on so many levels.

I agree….
Louisville and VaTech started playing football in the 1970’s, through the 80’s and into the 90’s.

I believe Louisville vs. VaTech would be another good football series for The ACC. An opportunity The ACC is missing out on.

Simply schedule Virginia and Boston College every season instead of Virginia and Louisville or VaTech and Boston College.

That’s a good point but it still won’t fix the scheduling problem. VT plays Atlantic teams (other than BC) only once in seven years. The ACC needs to either drop the crossover rival or add the 9th conference game in my opinion.

VT is in the wrong division to begin with, IMO. If you look at the ACC teams the Hokies played the most before joining the conference, it looks like this (after UVA #1, of course):

ACC Opponent....1st....#games
NC State........1902....43
Wake Forest.....1916....32
Florida State...1955....31
Clemson.........1906....26
Maryland........1919....26
North Carolina..1902....22
Miami (Florida).1953....21

Maryland was replaced by Louisville, of course, but that's not the point. Do you know which ACC division all of those teams in red belong to? Yet for some reason the Hokies are NOT in that division.

Yeah, I said this from the beginning. Maryland should have been in the Coastal and VaTech in the Atlantic. UMD-BC and UVA-VT as cross-division games.

Maryland was put in a tough spot because I’m sure they wanted to play Clemson and maybe NC State yearly as well as UVA. I don’t think it would have kept them in the league, but they should have been in the Coastal from day 1.

Divisional placement was controlled by Duke, UVa, and UNC.

VT had been in the same conference with NC State, UNC, and UVa, from 1911 to 1953 - the SAIAA and then the SoCon from 1921. The SAIAA original members were those four plus Georgetown, Johns Hopkins, Richmond, and Washington & Lee. Maryland joined in 1916. One of the root problems of VT's return is that they were treated like the prodigal son to the detriment of MD.

(06-12-2021 09:25 AM)random asian guy Wrote:  

(06-11-2021 09:05 PM)Statefan Wrote:  Referencing the above, if you look at the literature of authors like Richard Florida and others and combine that with things like the location of the "sweet tea line", the "ma'am line", presence of black Americans, presence of German and Scotch Irish/Ulster Scot Americans, and the Baptist/Lutheran Church line you get an approximation of cultures on a very broad scale.

Nominally for people from the light blue area - the old ACC core, they see those from the Dark Blue as Yankees and those in the Dark Green as relocated Yankees and see them two steps removed from the Midland/Yinzers in Green and the traditional southerners in Red who are actually diasporad Highland and Ulster Scots and black folk.

Purple is a very deep South thing which the light blues find more alien because black or white, these folks are not like light blue folks I think due in part to hard segregation and a history of deep poverty that has been exploited over the last 150 years.

Latin Florida might as well be Venezuela or Argentina to many in the light blue area.

My point is that just on the Eastern Seaboard some of these culture differences are jarring and too much to take for some athletes and some parents. In a way it is like blood types and some regions are universal donors while some are universal recipients.

Statefan, I appreciate your postings. I am a foreigner and learned quite a bit of history and cultural aspects from your postings.

It looks like Yinzers are culturally closer to the old ACC than the New England. Why did the ACC invite BC before Pitt? That move was hard to understand.

Boston is not New England. Boston is like Charleston on steroids in may ways. Penn State keeping Pitt out of the Big 10 meant that Pitt would be there to the end. The talks with Miami had resulted in an oral deal for Miami, Syracuse, and BC. It's not an anti Pitt thing.

Things to keep in mind:

1. MD left the ACC because their System President wanted to leave. The System President used their self-induced fiscal problems to pitch the Big 10 because he was a Big 10 man. Instead of being in the top third of the ACC he preferred the bottom third of the Big 10 for other political issues within the State of MD.
2. Duke and UNC had been pissing on MD for two decades when MD is who formed the SoCon in 1921, and who lead the formation of the ACC in 1953 and the expulsion of certain schools.
3. MD had been institutionally ****** up since a 1970 decision to move graduate programs to Baltimore. These problems continue to this day and cause problems on the athletic end because of fundraising lack of trust.

(06-11-2021 08:45 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(06-11-2021 07:19 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  

(06-11-2021 12:51 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(06-11-2021 12:00 PM)esayem Wrote:  VaTech vs Louisville makes more sense than UVA vs Louisville on so many levels.

I agree….
Louisville and VaTech started playing football in the 1970’s, through the 80’s and into the 90’s.

I believe Louisville vs. VaTech would be another good football series for The ACC. An opportunity The ACC is missing out on.

Simply schedule Virginia and Boston College every season instead of Virginia and Louisville or VaTech and Boston College.

That’s a good point but it still won’t fix the scheduling problem. VT plays Atlantic teams (other than BC) only once in seven years. The ACC needs to either drop the crossover rival or add the 9th conference game in my opinion.

VT is in the wrong division to begin with, IMO. If you look at the ACC teams the Hokies played the most before joining the conference, it looks like this (after UVA #1, of course):

ACC Opponent....1st....#games
NC State........1902....43
Wake Forest.....1916....32
Florida State...1955....31
Clemson.........1906....26
Maryland........1919....26
North Carolina..1902....22
Miami (Florida).1953....21

Maryland was replaced by Louisville, of course, but that's not the point. Do you know which ACC division all of those teams in red belong to? Yet for some reason the Hokies are NOT in that division.

Mark that’s really eye opening….

(06-12-2021 02:55 PM)Maize Wrote:  

(06-11-2021 12:51 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(06-11-2021 12:00 PM)esayem Wrote:  VaTech vs Louisville makes more sense than UVA vs Louisville on so many levels.

I agree….
Louisville and VaTech started playing football in the 1970’s, through the 80’s and into the 90’s.

I believe Louisville vs. VaTech would be another good football series for The ACC. An opportunity The ACC is missing out on.

Simply schedule Virginia and Boston College every season instead of Virginia and Louisville or VaTech and Boston College.

^^^^
THIS!!!

Been away for a LONG while but Louisville not playing Virginia Tech is beyond ridiculous. I really like the new Playoff setup...now get rid of the Divisions so we can see more of the ACC in Football

Welcome Back Brother!

(06-12-2021 06:01 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(06-12-2021 02:55 PM)Maize Wrote:  

(06-11-2021 12:51 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(06-11-2021 12:00 PM)esayem Wrote:  VaTech vs Louisville makes more sense than UVA vs Louisville on so many levels.

I agree….
Louisville and VaTech started playing football in the 1970’s, through the 80’s and into the 90’s.

I believe Louisville vs. VaTech would be another good football series for The ACC. An opportunity The ACC is missing out on.

Simply schedule Virginia and Boston College every season instead of Virginia and Louisville or VaTech and Boston College.

^^^^
THIS!!!

Been away for a LONG while but Louisville not playing Virginia Tech is beyond ridiculous. I really like the new Playoff setup...now get rid of the Divisions so we can see more of the ACC in Football

Welcome Back Brother!

Thanks....will drop in and out on occasion...but I’m back...

(06-13-2021 09:50 AM)Maize Wrote:  

(06-12-2021 06:01 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(06-12-2021 02:55 PM)Maize Wrote:  

(06-11-2021 12:51 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(06-11-2021 12:00 PM)esayem Wrote:  VaTech vs Louisville makes more sense than UVA vs Louisville on so many levels.

I agree….
Louisville and VaTech started playing football in the 1970’s, through the 80’s and into the 90’s.

I believe Louisville vs. VaTech would be another good football series for The ACC. An opportunity The ACC is missing out on.

Simply schedule Virginia and Boston College every season instead of Virginia and Louisville or VaTech and Boston College.

^^^^
THIS!!!

Been away for a LONG while but Louisville not playing Virginia Tech is beyond ridiculous. I really like the new Playoff setup...now get rid of the Divisions so we can see more of the ACC in Football

Welcome Back Brother!

Thanks....will drop in and out on occasion...but I’m back...

Glad to have you back Maize!

Yeah, should at least flip one of the virginias with cuse or bc....