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Challenge: Nerf the SEC and Big Ten
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #1
Challenge: Nerf the SEC and Big Ten
Why? Because it's fun! If you're not familiar with the term "nerf" in this context, it means to weaken, usually to achieve parity.

[Image: 5It26mp.png]

Even with nerfing the SEC it ends up with the 3rd greatest total WSJ valuation. Colors below are for each school's current conference. The weighted mean Sagarin rating (wmSR) is the average of each school's Sagarin rating over the last 10 seasons, weighted toward the present. I didn't use the 2020 FB ratings due to the incompleteness of the season.

[Image: EHYiJqo.png]

Protected annual interdivision crossovers

ACC

Atlantic
Auburn: Florida, Georgia
Clemson: Florida State, Georgia
Miami-FL: Florida, Florida State
NC State: Duke, North Carolina
South Carolina: Duke, Georgia Tech
Virginia: Georgia Tech, North Carolina

Coastal
Duke: NC State, South Carolina
Florida: Auburn, Florida
Florida State: Clemson, Miami-FL
Georgia: Auburn, Clemson
Georgia Tech: South Carolina, Virginia
North Carolina: NC State, Virginia

(No protected crossovers in the Big 12)

Big East

North
Boston College: Maryland, Rutgers
Michigan: Ohio State, Virginia Tech
Michigan State: Maryland, Ohio State
Notre Dame: Penn State, Virginia Tech
Pittsburgh: Penn State, West Virginia
Syracuse: Rutgers, West Virginia

South
Maryland: Boston College, Michigan State
Ohio State: Michigan, Michigan State
Penn State: Notre Dame, Pittsburgh
Rutgers: Boston College, Syracuse
Virginia Tech: Michigan, Notre Dame
West Virginia: Pittsburgh, Syracuse

Pac-12

Pacific
Arizona: Arizona State, Boise State
California: Stanford, USC
Oregon: Oregon State, Washington State
UCLA: Stanford, USC
Utah: Arizona State, Boise State
Washington: Oregon State, Washington State

Western
Arizona State: Arizona, Utah
Boise State: Arizona, Utah
Oregon State: Oregon, Washington
Stanford: California, UCLA
USC: California, UCLA
Washington State: Oregon, Washington

SEC

North/South
Alabama/LSU
Cincinnati/Central Florida
Kentucky/Mississippi State
Louisville/Ole Miss
Tennessee/Vanderbilt
Wake Forest/South Florida

SWC

East/West
Arkansas/Oklahoma State
Baylor/TCU
Houston/SMU
Memphis/Colorado
Texas/Oklahoma
Texas A&M/Texas Tech

Annual interconference matchups

Alabama/Auburn
Nebraska/Oklahoma
North Carolina/Wake Forest
Notre Dame/USC
Virginia/Virginia Tech
(This post was last modified: 06-04-2021 09:24 AM by Nerdlinger.)
06-02-2021 07:51 PM
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schmolik Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Challenge: Nerf the SEC and Big Ten
Can I just nerf the SEC and keep the Big 10 intact? I've seen others nerf the Big 12, Pac 12, ACC, even the Big 10, why not the SEC?

Bizarro World:

The Big 10 gets aggressive and tries to uses academics to lure SEC schools to jump ship. They take Florida, Texas A&M, Georgia, and Alabama. It gives the Big 10 presence in three big Southern states and while Alabama might not have strong academic credentials, who wouldn't want Alabama? The Big 10 hints under the table that they'll work to get Georgia and Alabama into the AAU if they join (Florida and A&M are already in and will also support them in any vote). Alabama and Texas A&M join the Big Ten West and Florida and Georgia join the Big Ten East.

Big Ten South: Texas A&M, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Nebraska, Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, Purdue
Big Ten North: Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan, Michigan State, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Northwestern, Maryland, Rutgers

The ACC can't resist adding Kentucky to add to its men's basketball ranks. Tennessee also helps. Vanderbilt and Auburn also help their academic ranks.

ACC South: Clemson, Florida State, Miami, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Kentucky, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Auburn
ACC North: Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, NC State, Duke, Wake Forest

Both conferences play 20 games for basketball, 3 permanent rivals.

The rest of the SEC can merge with the Big 12.

Big 12/SEC West: Texas, TCU, Baylor, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Kansas State
Big 12/SEC East: Missouri, Arkansas, Iowa State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, LSU, West Virginia, South Carolina
(This post was last modified: 06-03-2021 07:48 AM by schmolik.)
06-03-2021 06:09 AM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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Post: #3
RE: Challenge: Nerf the SEC and Big Ten
It’s a fun exercise but I’m curious, why New Mexico, Rice, SMU, Houston, Memphis, and Cincinnati for your 6 call ups?

The last 3 I get, but I’d hardly consider the first 3 the next schools on deck. UCF, USF, and BYU are probably the next best.
06-03-2021 06:37 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Challenge: Nerf the SEC and Big Ten
What does "Nerf" mean?
06-03-2021 07:08 AM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Challenge: Nerf the SEC and Big Ten
(06-03-2021 06:37 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  It’s a fun exercise but I’m curious, why New Mexico, Rice, SMU, Houston, Memphis, and Cincinnati for your 6 call ups?

The last 3 I get, but I’d hardly consider the first 3 the next schools on deck. UCF, USF, and BYU are probably the next best.

Geography. I tried to work UCF and USF in but couldn't finagle it. Tulane was the 7th call-up.
(This post was last modified: 06-03-2021 08:01 AM by Nerdlinger.)
06-03-2021 07:59 AM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Challenge: Nerf the SEC and Big Ten
(06-03-2021 07:08 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  What does "Nerf" mean?

Sorry -- just added a definition to the OP. It means to weaken.
06-03-2021 08:00 AM
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Sicembear11 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Challenge: Nerf the SEC and Big Ten
(06-03-2021 07:08 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  What does "Nerf" mean?

“Nerf” is a term commonly used in video game communities in regards to a company intentionally weakening characters or items that may be too strong for the sake of competitive balance and parity. Usually, this mindset intends to increase player retention and interest by preventing players with the overpowered items/characters from winning every game and to increase the attractiveness of other characters/items to try out because they might be fun but no one will use them if there is a definitively better option available.
06-03-2021 08:37 AM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Challenge: Nerf the SEC and Big Ten
(06-03-2021 08:37 AM)Sicembear11 Wrote:  
(06-03-2021 07:08 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  What does "Nerf" mean?

“Nerf” is a term commonly used in video game communities in regards to a company intentionally weakening characters or items that may be too strong for the sake of competitive balance and parity. Usually, this mindset intends to increase player retention and interest by preventing players with the overpowered items/characters from winning every game and to increase the attractiveness of other characters/items to try out because they might be fun but no one will use them if there is a definitively better option available.

Thank you for providing a more detailed definition. I did indeed try to seek parity among the "P6" conferences in my setup, though given the constraints, there was no one I could reasonably add to the Pac-12, for instance, to bring their WSJ valuation up.
06-03-2021 08:53 AM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Challenge: Nerf the SEC and Big Ten
(06-03-2021 06:09 AM)schmolik Wrote:  Can I just nerf the SEC and keep the Big 10 intact? I've seen others nerf the Big 12, Pac 12, ACC, even the Big 10, why not the SEC?

Bizarro World:

The Big 10 gets aggressive and tries to uses academics to lure SEC schools to jump ship. They take Florida, Texas A&M, Georgia, and Alabama. It gives the Big 10 presence in three big Southern states and while Alabama might not have strong academic credentials, who wouldn't want Alabama? The Big 10 hints under the table that they'll work to get Georgia and Alabama into the AAU if they join (Florida and A&M are already in and will also support them in any vote). Alabama and Texas A&M join the Big Ten West and Florida and Georgia join the Big Ten East.

Big Ten South: Texas A&M, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Nebraska, Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, Purdue
Big Ten North: Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan, Michigan State, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Northwestern, Maryland, Rutgers

The ACC can't resist adding Kentucky to add to its men's basketball ranks. Tennessee also helps. Vanderbilt and Auburn also help their academic ranks.

ACC South: Clemson, Florida State, Miami, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Kentucky, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Auburn
ACC North: Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, NC State, Duke, Wake Forest

Both conferences play 20 games for basketball, 3 permanent rivals.

The rest of the SEC can merge with the Big 12.

Big 12/SEC West: Texas, TCU, Baylor, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Kansas State
Big 12/SEC East: Missouri, Arkansas, Iowa State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, LSU, West Virginia, South Carolina

Well, frankly, nerfing both of the "P2" is necessary for some degree of parity among the power conferences. But here you've not just avoided nerfing the Big Ten but in fact made it significantly more powerful.
06-03-2021 08:56 AM
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Wahoowa84 Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Challenge: Nerf the SEC and Big Ten
That’s really good. The new conferences are all compact and relatively balanced. Best of all, the most valuable have to help build-up the less fortunate...
1) UT-Austin and TA&M have to help rebuild New Mexico and Rice athletics
2) Alabama and LSU have to help Tulane and Memphis
3) Ohio State and Penn State are partnered with West Virginia

On second thought, maybe you should replace Rice with just about anyone else in that geography (BYU?).
06-03-2021 09:53 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Challenge: Nerf the SEC and Big Ten
(06-03-2021 07:59 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(06-03-2021 06:37 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  It’s a fun exercise but I’m curious, why New Mexico, Rice, SMU, Houston, Memphis, and Cincinnati for your 6 call ups?

The last 3 I get, but I’d hardly consider the first 3 the next schools on deck. UCF, USF, and BYU are probably the next best.

Geography. I tried to work UCF and USF in but couldn't finagle it. Tulane was the 7th call-up.

I didn't have much trouble. I tossed Tulane, Rice and New Mexico (none of which belong in the P6) and replaced them with UCF, USF and Boise State.

I put UCF and USF into the SEC.
Boise went to the PAC 12.
Colorado and Memphis to the SWC.

At the end of the day, these are the average Sagarin ratings for each conference (as amended) for 2019 (the last "normal" year of play):

78.0 SWC
77.8 ACC
77.5 SEC
77.2 BE
77.1 PAC
76.2 B12

You're not going to get much more parity than that.
06-03-2021 12:33 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Challenge: Nerf the SEC and Big Ten
(06-03-2021 12:33 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-03-2021 07:59 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(06-03-2021 06:37 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  It’s a fun exercise but I’m curious, why New Mexico, Rice, SMU, Houston, Memphis, and Cincinnati for your 6 call ups?

The last 3 I get, but I’d hardly consider the first 3 the next schools on deck. UCF, USF, and BYU are probably the next best.

Geography. I tried to work UCF and USF in but couldn't finagle it. Tulane was the 7th call-up.

I didn't have much trouble. I tossed Tulane, Rice and New Mexico (none of which belong in the P6) and replaced them with UCF, USF and Boise State.

I put UCF and USF into the SEC.
Boise went to the PAC 12.
Colorado and Memphis to the SWC.

At the end of the day, these are the average Sagarin ratings for each conference (as amended) for 2019 (the last "normal" year of play):

78.0 SWC
77.8 ACC
77.5 SEC
77.2 BE
77.1 PAC
76.2 B12

You're not going to get much more parity than that.

In aggregate, we see great parity. But when you try to break these conferences down into geographically rational divisions, it doesn't work so well.

The SWC does OK, with a western division at 78.0 and the east at 77.6.

The PAC's not bad either with a spread of 78.2 vs 76.0.

Next best is the SWC at 80.8 vs 71.5.

Now we get awful. The SEC west, with both Bama and LSU, clocks in at 81.0, while the denuded east is 73.9. The ACC South is loaded at 84.7, but The North with Tobacco Road is only 70.9 even giving them FSU and Miami.

The new Big East is a disaster, with a loaded western division at 85.1 and the pitiful east scores only 69.3.

There may be good competition within divisions, but between divisions not so much. To get all divisions into the 77 range that the conferences fall into would take a lot more work.
06-03-2021 01:03 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Challenge: Nerf the SEC and Big Ten
(06-03-2021 12:33 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-03-2021 07:59 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(06-03-2021 06:37 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  It’s a fun exercise but I’m curious, why New Mexico, Rice, SMU, Houston, Memphis, and Cincinnati for your 6 call ups?

The last 3 I get, but I’d hardly consider the first 3 the next schools on deck. UCF, USF, and BYU are probably the next best.

Geography. I tried to work UCF and USF in but couldn't finagle it. Tulane was the 7th call-up.

I didn't have much trouble. I tossed Tulane, Rice and New Mexico (none of which belong in the P6) and replaced them with UCF, USF and Boise State.

I put UCF and USF into the SEC.
Boise went to the PAC 12.
Colorado and Memphis to the SWC.

At the end of the day, these are the average Sagarin ratings for each conference (as amended) for 2019 (the last "normal" year of play):

78.0 SWC
77.8 ACC
77.5 SEC
77.2 BE
77.1 PAC
76.2 B12

You're not going to get much more parity than that.

I was trying to keep each conference compact and even in both size and valuation while splitting as few states as possible. Even then, I had to split Alabama, Indiana, North Carolina, Ohio, and Virginia. Here, you're also splitting Florida and Tennessee. That said, it's not awful, although the SEC is not especially compact. Also, you've dropped the dead-last Pac even lower in valuation by trading Colorado for Boise. I haven't crunched the numbers, but if with the small changes you made, the 6 conferences are on par in terms of Sagarin FB ratings, I expect my setup isn't too far off from that.
(This post was last modified: 06-03-2021 02:33 PM by Nerdlinger.)
06-03-2021 02:26 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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RE: Challenge: Nerf the SEC and Big Ten
(06-03-2021 01:03 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-03-2021 12:33 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-03-2021 07:59 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(06-03-2021 06:37 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  It’s a fun exercise but I’m curious, why New Mexico, Rice, SMU, Houston, Memphis, and Cincinnati for your 6 call ups?

The last 3 I get, but I’d hardly consider the first 3 the next schools on deck. UCF, USF, and BYU are probably the next best.

Geography. I tried to work UCF and USF in but couldn't finagle it. Tulane was the 7th call-up.

I didn't have much trouble. I tossed Tulane, Rice and New Mexico (none of which belong in the P6) and replaced them with UCF, USF and Boise State.

I put UCF and USF into the SEC.
Boise went to the PAC 12.
Colorado and Memphis to the SWC.

At the end of the day, these are the average Sagarin ratings for each conference (as amended) for 2019 (the last "normal" year of play):

78.0 SWC
77.8 ACC
77.5 SEC
77.2 BE
77.1 PAC
76.2 B12

You're not going to get much more parity than that.

In aggregate, we see great parity. But when you try to break these conferences down into geographically rational divisions, it doesn't work so well.

The SWC does OK, with a western division at 78.0 and the east at 77.6.

The PAC's not bad either with a spread of 78.2 vs 76.0.

Next best is the SWC at 80.8 vs 71.5.

Now we get awful. The SEC west, with both Bama and LSU, clocks in at 81.0, while the denuded east is 73.9. The ACC South is loaded at 84.7, but The North with Tobacco Road is only 70.9 even giving them FSU and Miami.

The new Big East is a disaster, with a loaded western division at 85.1 and the pitiful east scores only 69.3.

There may be good competition within divisions, but between divisions not so much. To get all divisions into the 77 range that the conferences fall into would take a lot more work.

You can see how I did the divisions in the map in the OP. I had to get creative in some cases for the sake of competitive balance. That said, I'm sure some are still unbalanced, like the SEC.
(This post was last modified: 06-03-2021 02:53 PM by Nerdlinger.)
06-03-2021 02:37 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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RE: Challenge: Nerf the SEC and Big Ten
OK, Ken, I decided to go with your modifications and have updated the OP accordingly. I've included a measure of on-the-field/court strength in the table. I tried to balance the FB divisions in each conference by strength as best as I could.
06-04-2021 12:09 AM
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schmolik Offline
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RE: Challenge: Nerf the SEC and Big Ten
I've decided to keep with the spirit of this challenge and nerf both the SEC and Big Ten and do a 6 by 11 alignment. I had done one in the past but kept Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State in the Big Ten which doesn't keep with the spirit of nerfing the Big Ten. To really nerf the Big 10, the three schools have to be separated (you really don't want to separate Ohio State and Michigan so Penn State has to leave for an Eastern conference).

6 by 11/Nerf:

Big East: Boston College, Syracuse, Penn State, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Maryland, Virginia, Virginia Tech, West Virginia, Cincinnati, Notre Dame

ACC: North Carolina, Duke, NC State, Wake Forest, Clemson, South Carolina, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Florida, Florida State, Miami

Big Ten: Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Iowa State

SEC: Kentucky, Louisville, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State, LSU, Arkansas, Missouri

Big 12: Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Kansas State, Nebraska, Colorado

Pac 12: UCLA, USC, California, Stanford, Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, Arizona, Arizona State, Utah

Notre Dame was placed in the Big East instead of the Big Ten for balance.

Feel free to measure conference strength and value of these six conferences.
06-05-2021 05:26 AM
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CardinalJim Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Challenge: Nerf the SEC and Big Ten
(06-03-2021 07:08 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  What does "Nerf" mean?

Thanks for asking that question. I guess you can tell who the gamers are now Dude. Sweet….
I knew most of the posters here were young but damn.
(This post was last modified: 06-05-2021 06:02 AM by CardinalJim.)
06-05-2021 06:01 AM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Challenge: Nerf the SEC and Big Ten
A P7x10 nerf:

[Image: NEBhj4n.png]

[Image: ql9dI3Y.png]

Protected interdivision crossovers

ACC

Atlantic/Coastal
Clemson/South Carolina
Florida/Georgia
Maryland/Virginia
NC State/North Carolina
Wake Forest/Duke

Big East

Inner/Outer
Ohio State/Michigan
Penn State/Michigan State
Pittsburgh/Notre Dame
Syracuse/Boston College
West Virginia/Virginia Tech

Other Conferences

Big Central (East/West): Kansas/Kansas State, Oklahoma/Nebraska
SEC (North/South): Alabama/Auburn

Annual interconference matchups
Alabama/LSU
Florida/Florida State
Georgia/Georgia Tech
Iowa/Iowa State
Kentucky/Tennessee
Notre Dame/USC
Oklahoma/Texas
Virginia/Virginia Tech
(This post was last modified: 06-09-2021 04:48 AM by Nerdlinger.)
06-05-2021 11:52 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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RE: Challenge: Nerf the SEC and Big Ten
OK, updated my post above with division info, in case anyone cares... 03-wink
(This post was last modified: 06-08-2021 04:47 PM by Nerdlinger.)
06-08-2021 04:47 PM
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Crayton Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Challenge: Nerf the SEC and Big Ten
I’m still following. Just waiting for the 5x14 (aka 10x7) nerf. Keeps making me think that there could be an algorithm that spits these out and is updated every year for a nice 70-72 team league that is always “balanced”.
06-08-2021 06:58 PM
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