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4 More Years
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AlphaFlash Offline
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4 More Years
Just when I started liking our "new direction."
https://kentstatesports.com/news/2021/6/...story.aspx
06-01-2021 02:39 PM
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cleveland Offline
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RE: 4 More Years
(06-01-2021 02:39 PM)AlphaFlash Wrote:  Just when I started liking our "new direction."
https://kentstatesports.com/news/2021/6/...story.aspx

Are you saying this is a bad thing???
06-01-2021 03:15 PM
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bopol Offline
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RE: 4 More Years
Good for Senderoff. He isn't quite the great coach I hoped for, but he is very good and handles the complex personalities of young athletes well. I'm happy to have him around.
06-01-2021 04:25 PM
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cleveland Offline
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RE: 4 More Years
(06-01-2021 04:25 PM)bopol Wrote:  Good for Senderoff. He isn't quite the great coach I hoped for, but he is very good and handles the complex personalities of young athletes well. I'm happy to have him around.

In the current college basketball environment --- I think, in a one-bid-league like the MAC, you are much better off having a proven winner, 'capable' of catching lightning in a bottle any given year, as opposed to constantly going through 4-year turnarounds with a new usually unproven coach.

It is not a stretch, in a perfect world, to see Kent playing for a MAC Tournament title last season if all hands were on deck. It didn't happen, but was viable up to the final weeks of the season.

For comparison, some Toledo fans have soured on TK, but have also come to grips with the fact he has a team/program capable of catching lightning in a bottle in any given year. Senderoff has one NCAA ticket punched, the ??? is can/will he get Kent to another.
06-01-2021 05:55 PM
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Doc KSU Offline
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RE: 4 More Years
(06-01-2021 04:25 PM)bopol Wrote:  Good for Senderoff. He isn't quite the great coach I hoped for, but he is very good and handles the complex personalities of young athletes well. I'm happy to have him around.

This expresses my sentiments as well, Replacing Senderoff, in my opinion, has a > 70% chance of failing
(This post was last modified: 06-01-2021 06:23 PM by Doc KSU.)
06-01-2021 06:23 PM
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Muskrat Offline
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RE: 4 More Years
As one who until a few years ago was a Senderoff detractor, I fully agree that "moving in another direction" would more likely than not not work out very well. I came to realize that Senderoff does about as well as can be expected given today's realities.
06-01-2021 07:25 PM
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Older and Older Offline
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RE: 4 More Years
(06-01-2021 07:25 PM)Muskrat Wrote:  As one who until a few years ago was a Senderoff detractor, I fully agree that "moving in another direction" would more likely than not not work out very well. I came to realize that Senderoff does about as well as can be expected given today's realities.
Totally agree:
Before the “bashers” come out and tell us what’s wrong with the
renewal , let’s review how we got here.
1/ Senderoff recruits well and gets the most from
his players. Malcontents exist everywhere , thanks to the Portal.
Senderoff and fans need to live with it.
2/ Basketball was touted as “sport of emphasis” by last President
and AD. To them this meant strobe lights and on the court MC’s
Screaming or blinding us. Emphasis was a charade.
3/ Funding for Men’s Basketball has fallen from 2nd or 3rd in MAC to
near the bottom. This includes recruiting budget and assistant coaches
salaries. ( We should all be embarrassed that this occurred. ) BTW
Situation developed pre Covid.
4/ MAC center 12th oldest D1 facility in the U.S . It’s a recruiting nightmare and a dump for fans. It’s not the Palestra , Cameron Indoor,
by a long shot. Embarrassing.
Finally, Senderoff needs the support of fans and donors. Bashing
is counter-productive. He is well respected nationally and wins and runs
a clean program.
Let’s applaud the new contract and support him and players.
(This post was last modified: 06-01-2021 07:46 PM by Older and Older.)
06-01-2021 07:43 PM
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ksu315 Offline
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RE: 4 More Years
i agree with the general sentiment that we likely arent going to get any better in the open market and that he needs alignment and donor support to make good things happen.

However, i think he has failed miserably in handling the personalities of young athletes well. 2 of the last 3 years we have had 4th or 5th year seniors physically punch someone in the face during the last week of the season. The last one being a teammate. That is not controlling your players and to the contrary if those experienced of players are doing that then that tells me they have been causing issues internally for their first 4-5 years and Sendy's lived with it. That's a tough line to tow i realize but if he's earned long term respect and tenure and he can rebuild a roster he shouldnt be keeping those knuckleheads around.
06-02-2021 11:41 AM
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RE: 4 More Years
Let's face it. If Akron didn't collapse the minute they got on the court in 2017 Final they would've walked over us. That championship is what he's holding on to. The "most winningest coach in school history." Look at the schedules compared to previous coaches. Our 20-win seasons are weak.
We haven't seen a Singletary, Q, or Fisher type leader in a decade. Development is poor. The same offense they've ran since he took over. There's rarely a surprise and no attack on the floor. No kill-instinct.
All the above guys came with baggage, but they were developed and brought us a couple trophies before going. Now we see trash talking Dec-March as if we are something special.
Maybe 2021-22 is not the time to look for a new coach. Maybe the 4 years will allow time for world and local economic issues to rebound and this damn portal to go away. I'll give it that. But something needs to resurrect this program.
Students now have no idea what its like to hang a banner every year. Most were in middle-school last time Kent was in the NCAA Tourney.
06-02-2021 03:14 PM
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cleveland Offline
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RE: 4 More Years
(06-02-2021 03:14 PM)AlphaFlash Wrote:  Let's face it. If Akron didn't collapse the minute they got on the court in 2017 Final they would've walked over us. That championship is what he's holding on to. The "most winningest coach in school history." Look at the schedules compared to previous coaches. Our 20-win seasons are weak.
We haven't seen a Singletary, Q, or Fisher type leader in a decade. Development is poor. The same offense they've ran since he took over. There's rarely a surprise and no attack on the floor. No kill-instinct.
All the above guys came with baggage, but they were developed and brought us a couple trophies before going. Now we see trash talking Dec-March as if we are something special.
Maybe 2021-22 is not the time to look for a new coach. Maybe the 4 years will allow time for world and local economic issues to rebound and this damn portal to go away. I'll give it that. But something needs to resurrect this program.
Students now have no idea what its like to hang a banner every year. Most were in middle-school last time Kent was in the NCAA Tourney.

WOW ... and double WOW:

If Singletary, Q, Fisher are the type of 'leaders' you are looking for then the program is farther down than even you think it is. VGood to great players, but not great leaders.

Rod Sherman was a leader, EHaut was a leader, Mike Scott, Kevin Zabo, Jalen Avery, those were leaders ... but I'm not even sure those guys could 'lead' the kind of players that proliferate college basketball these days.

Yes Singletary, Q, Fisher came with baggage but the 'entire' athletic department had a hand into making them championship type players from the AD down to the trainers ... I'm sure maybe some of those dots were connected in recent years, but not all of them, for sure.

If you guys understood the inner-workings of a truly successful program over the course of 12-months and the outside support to keep it propped up, you would be gob-smacked at the staples, duct tape and bubble gum Christian-Geno-RS have used to keep your program at the front of the pack for so long.

In the end, there is a certain type of player who is successful at Kent State, and so far KSU keeps finding them.

And dismissing that 2017 title to Akron 'not showing up' is a ridiculous statement. Like OU this year, that 2017 team showed signs throughout the season, then caught fire late, and won it all when it counted. They were likely underdogs in all of the four tournament games they played (CMU, Buffalo, OU, Akron) but won them all.

Kent's 'X' factor (Jwalker) was lethal down the stretch while Akron's 'X' factor (Cheatum) had been spinning down the drain for a few weeks.

As for the scheduling, it's a crap shoot. Kent's 'Best' or strongest schedule since 2000 was arguably 2008, and there was not a power conference team on it.

I take it beating West Virginia, or Texas or Oregon State (twice) wasn't a surprise to you. Finally, as someone who has followed this league regularly since the 1980s, there are a couple of individual 'teams' I would put ahead of Kent - down 5 with four minutes to play - but over the last 20 years - sight unseen - if you tell me Kent is down 5 with four minutes to play I'd bet the Flashes every time and win more often that not.

This is a long rant, but folks better understand, despite a plethora of short-comings, Kent has a damn strong basketball 'program' overall. It is a consistent winner. It is a consistent competitor. It is a consistent threat every time out on the floor.

In 2011 on ESPN when Kent State was on its E* NIT run, announcer Jimmy Dykes said of Kent State ... "These guys are a bunch of ballers,'' he began. " A bunch of guys who say, 'where are we playing? What time does the game start? Let's get it on.''

It's been like that at Kent for over 20 years. I've been a college basketball fan going back to the 50s. I grew up on the old Missouri Valley.

As I've moved over the years I've seen the Ivys and the Patriots, the A-10s and the Colonials. Shy of Wichita State none of those mid-major leagues had a 'consistent' winner - I didn't say champion, but winner - like Kent. Not for 20 straight years.

Yes, kids were in middle school when Kent last went to the NCAA ... but ask Toledo, or BG, or Eastern, or Northern, or Ball State, or Miami when was the last time they went to the NCAA. ... and when was the last time before that.

It's time for some folks to recognize Kent for what it is, and what it has done ... and I mean in their own house!!!
(This post was last modified: 06-02-2021 05:01 PM by cleveland.)
06-02-2021 04:54 PM
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Post: #11
RE: 4 More Years
Tweet from Starkey:

There’s a new energy at Kent State right now...you can feel it! So proud to be a Golden Flash!!
@KentStAthletics

Sounds like to new AD and staff are bringing in some new energy!
06-02-2021 05:16 PM
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RE: 4 More Years
Cleveland, I agree 100% about "Christian-Geno -RS". Do I wish Kent State was still the MAC's "flagship program"? Sure. But, i eventually came to realize that things have changed and our coaches have done a tremendous job keeping the program from collapsing into sub-.500 territory.
06-02-2021 07:46 PM
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RE: 4 More Years
So we're talking guys who came in with baggage, developed into leaders, and won trophies... and Chris Singletary, who made the tournament once (his Soph year when he was our 4th best player), and ended his career by getting thrown out of his final game for punching a Kansas player... is remembered more fondly than Jimmy Hall?
06-02-2021 07:56 PM
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RE: 4 More Years
(06-02-2021 04:54 PM)cleveland Wrote:  
(06-02-2021 03:14 PM)AlphaFlash Wrote:  Let's face it. If Akron didn't collapse the minute they got on the court in 2017 Final they would've walked over us. That championship is what he's holding on to. The "most winningest coach in school history." Look at the schedules compared to previous coaches. Our 20-win seasons are weak.
We haven't seen a Singletary, Q, or Fisher type leader in a decade. Development is poor. The same offense they've ran since he took over. There's rarely a surprise and no attack on the floor. No kill-instinct.
All the above guys came with baggage, but they were developed and brought us a couple trophies before going. Now we see trash talking Dec-March as if we are something special.
Maybe 2021-22 is not the time to look for a new coach. Maybe the 4 years will allow time for world and local economic issues to rebound and this damn portal to go away. I'll give it that. But something needs to resurrect this program.
Students now have no idea what its like to hang a banner every year. Most were in middle-school last time Kent was in the NCAA Tourney.

WOW ... and double WOW:

If Singletary, Q, Fisher are the type of 'leaders' you are looking for then the program is farther down than even you think it is. VGood to great players, but not great leaders.

Rod Sherman was a leader, EHaut was a leader, Mike Scott, Kevin Zabo, Jalen Avery, those were leaders ... but I'm not even sure those guys could 'lead' the kind of players that proliferate college basketball these days.

Yes Singletary, Q, Fisher came with baggage but the 'entire' athletic department had a hand into making them championship type players from the AD down to the trainers ... I'm sure maybe some of those dots were connected in recent years, but not all of them, for sure.

If you guys understood the inner-workings of a truly successful program over the course of 12-months and the outside support to keep it propped up, you would be gob-smacked at the staples, duct tape and bubble gum Christian-Geno-RS have used to keep your program at the front of the pack for so long.

In the end, there is a certain type of player who is successful at Kent State, and so far KSU keeps finding them.

And dismissing that 2017 title to Akron 'not showing up' is a ridiculous statement. Like OU this year, that 2017 team showed signs throughout the season, then caught fire late, and won it all when it counted. They were likely underdogs in all of the four tournament games they played (CMU, Buffalo, OU, Akron) but won them all.

Kent's 'X' factor (Jwalker) was lethal down the stretch while Akron's 'X' factor (Cheatum) had been spinning down the drain for a few weeks.

As for the scheduling, it's a crap shoot. Kent's 'Best' or strongest schedule since 2000 was arguably 2008, and there was not a power conference team on it.

I take it beating West Virginia, or Texas or Oregon State (twice) wasn't a surprise to you. Finally, as someone who has followed this league regularly since the 1980s, there are a couple of individual 'teams' I would put ahead of Kent - down 5 with four minutes to play - but over the last 20 years - sight unseen - if you tell me Kent is down 5 with four minutes to play I'd bet the Flashes every time and win more often that not.

This is a long rant, but folks better understand, despite a plethora of short-comings, Kent has a damn strong basketball 'program' overall. It is a consistent winner. It is a consistent competitor. It is a consistent threat every time out on the floor.

In 2011 on ESPN when Kent State was on its E* NIT run, announcer Jimmy Dykes said of Kent State ... "These guys are a bunch of ballers,'' he began. " A bunch of guys who say, 'where are we playing? What time does the game start? Let's get it on.''

It's been like that at Kent for over 20 years. I've been a college basketball fan going back to the 50s. I grew up on the old Missouri Valley.

As I've moved over the years I've seen the Ivys and the Patriots, the A-10s and the Colonials. Shy of Wichita State none of those mid-major leagues had a 'consistent' winner - I didn't say champion, but winner - like Kent. Not for 20 straight years.

Yes, kids were in middle school when Kent last went to the NCAA ... but ask Toledo, or BG, or Eastern, or Northern, or Ball State, or Miami when was the last time they went to the NCAA. ... and when was the last time before that.

It's time for some folks to recognize Kent for what it is, and what it has done ... and I mean in their own house!!!

Great Post, thank you for saying it for me. We are lucky to have Rob.
06-02-2021 09:37 PM
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RE: 4 More Years
Now that we for the head coach contract worked out, we should be able to make progress with filling the assistant coach vacancies. I believe Jalen Avery was a graduate assistant at ETSU last year. Just throwing that out there.
06-02-2021 09:39 PM
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cleveland Offline
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RE: 4 More Years
(06-02-2021 07:56 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  So we're talking guys who came in with baggage, developed into leaders, and won trophies... and Chris Singletary, who made the tournament once (his Soph year when he was our 4th best player), and ended his career by getting thrown out of his final game for punching a Kansas player... is remembered more fondly than Jimmy Hall?

Not to spotlight Singletary, but he is one good example of how Kent has helped channel a troubled player into better ways ... but was a flawed player/personality just the same. He was a power forward in a big point guards body. He was not athletic, he could not jump and could not shoot, but he was extremely skilled and physically intimidating on the court.

He ended the last home game at Kent his junior season punching an Akron player and being tossed from the gym.

Still, Singletary's back story was one of the most troubled to begin with and his reclamation not only involved Kent men's bb, but the women's program as well along with AD Laing Kennedy - all the while Singletary was a clear target for the local mounties whenever he left campus.

Yet since his four years ended with Kent (knock on wood) there has been no negative stories about him filtering back from Chicago, and I know for a fact Singletary has been a conduit several times in the past for both men and women's basketball recruiting targets in the Windy City.

Who would have bet on that when he left KSU.

That said, I'll take Jimmy Hall (who was no saint himself) over CS every time as well, on and off the court.

As a side note, while Singletary was considered a prime recruit for Kent and the MAC at that time (he was originally committed to Missouri) I doubt he would be much more than a rotational MAC player today.
06-02-2021 09:43 PM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #17
RE: 4 More Years
I imagine all mid-major coaches would just love to have a roster filled with players like Mike Scott, Eric Glenn, Bryan Bedford and Rod Sherman, just to name the first four to come to mind - really good players who were also quality people and terrific students. But, sadly, it seems to me those kind of people are not as common anymore, at least not ones who are bona fide Division I talents. Coaches have to cross their fingers and take chances, Sometimes players with issues work out, sometimes they don't. That's just the way it is.
06-03-2021 04:52 AM
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anti-zip Offline
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RE: 4 More Years
(06-02-2021 09:43 PM)cleveland Wrote:  
(06-02-2021 07:56 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  So we're talking guys who came in with baggage, developed into leaders, and won trophies... and Chris Singletary, who made the tournament once (his Soph year when he was our 4th best player), and ended his career by getting thrown out of his final game for punching a Kansas player... is remembered more fondly than Jimmy Hall?

Not to spotlight Singletary, but he is one good example of how Kent has helped channel a troubled player into better ways ... but was a flawed player/personality just the same. He was a power forward in a big point guards body. He was not athletic, he could not jump and could not shoot, but he was extremely skilled and physically intimidating on the court.

He ended the last home game at Kent his junior season punching an Akron player and being tossed from the gym.

Still, Singletary's back story was one of the most troubled to begin with and his reclamation not only involved Kent men's bb, but the women's program as well along with AD Laing Kennedy - all the while Singletary was a clear target for the local mounties whenever he left campus.

Yet since his four years ended with Kent (knock on wood) there has been no negative stories about him filtering back from Chicago, and I know for a fact Singletary has been a conduit several times in the past for both men and women's basketball recruiting targets in the Windy City.

Who would have bet on that when he left KSU.

That said, I'll take Jimmy Hall (who was no saint himself) over CS every time as well, on and off the court.

As a side note, while Singletary was considered a prime recruit for Kent and the MAC at that time (he was originally committed to Missouri) I doubt he would be much more than a rotational MAC player today.

Agreed with all you said. I always liked Singletary. Just pointing out that he's not an example of someone developing to being a strong leader. At least not more than Hall, who was a Sendy reclaimation project.
06-03-2021 09:22 AM
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RE: 4 More Years
(06-02-2021 04:54 PM)cleveland Wrote:  
(06-02-2021 03:14 PM)AlphaFlash Wrote:  Let's face it. If Akron didn't collapse the minute they got on the court in 2017 Final they would've walked over us. That championship is what he's holding on to. The "most winningest coach in school history." Look at the schedules compared to previous coaches. Our 20-win seasons are weak.
We haven't seen a Singletary, Q, or Fisher type leader in a decade. Development is poor. The same offense they've ran since he took over. There's rarely a surprise and no attack on the floor. No kill-instinct.
All the above guys came with baggage, but they were developed and brought us a couple trophies before going. Now we see trash talking Dec-March as if we are something special.
Maybe 2021-22 is not the time to look for a new coach. Maybe the 4 years will allow time for world and local economic issues to rebound and this damn portal to go away. I'll give it that. But something needs to resurrect this program.
Students now have no idea what its like to hang a banner every year. Most were in middle-school last time Kent was in the NCAA Tourney.

WOW ... and double WOW:

If Singletary, Q, Fisher are the type of 'leaders' you are looking for then the program is farther down than even you think it is. VGood to great players, but not great leaders.

Rod Sherman was a leader, EHaut was a leader, Mike Scott, Kevin Zabo, Jalen Avery, those were leaders ... but I'm not even sure those guys could 'lead' the kind of players that proliferate college basketball these days.

Yes Singletary, Q, Fisher came with baggage but the 'entire' athletic department had a hand into making them championship type players from the AD down to the trainers ... I'm sure maybe some of those dots were connected in recent years, but not all of them, for sure.

If you guys understood the inner-workings of a truly successful program over the course of 12-months and the outside support to keep it propped up, you would be gob-smacked at the staples, duct tape and bubble gum Christian-Geno-RS have used to keep your program at the front of the pack for so long.

In the end, there is a certain type of player who is successful at Kent State, and so far KSU keeps finding them.

And dismissing that 2017 title to Akron 'not showing up' is a ridiculous statement. Like OU this year, that 2017 team showed signs throughout the season, then caught fire late, and won it all when it counted. They were likely underdogs in all of the four tournament games they played (CMU, Buffalo, OU, Akron) but won them all.

Kent's 'X' factor (Jwalker) was lethal down the stretch while Akron's 'X' factor (Cheatum) had been spinning down the drain for a few weeks.

As for the scheduling, it's a crap shoot. Kent's 'Best' or strongest schedule since 2000 was arguably 2008, and there was not a power conference team on it.

I take it beating West Virginia, or Texas or Oregon State (twice) wasn't a surprise to you. Finally, as someone who has followed this league regularly since the 1980s, there are a couple of individual 'teams' I would put ahead of Kent - down 5 with four minutes to play - but over the last 20 years - sight unseen - if you tell me Kent is down 5 with four minutes to play I'd bet the Flashes every time and win more often that not.

This is a long rant, but folks better understand, despite a plethora of short-comings, Kent has a damn strong basketball 'program' overall. It is a consistent winner. It is a consistent competitor. It is a consistent threat every time out on the floor.

In 2011 on ESPN when Kent State was on its E* NIT run, announcer Jimmy Dykes said of Kent State ... "These guys are a bunch of ballers,'' he began. " A bunch of guys who say, 'where are we playing? What time does the game start? Let's get it on.''

It's been like that at Kent for over 20 years. I've been a college basketball fan going back to the 50s. I grew up on the old Missouri Valley.

As I've moved over the years I've seen the Ivys and the Patriots, the A-10s and the Colonials. Shy of Wichita State none of those mid-major leagues had a 'consistent' winner - I didn't say champion, but winner - like Kent. Not for 20 straight years.

Yes, kids were in middle school when Kent last went to the NCAA ... but ask Toledo, or BG, or Eastern, or Northern, or Ball State, or Miami when was the last time they went to the NCAA. ... and when was the last time before that.

It's time for some folks to recognize Kent for what it is, and what it has done ... and I mean in their own house!!!

Cleveland :

Well said. Amen. Time for program to receive support from Admin,
Donors, Fans , Students. Long overdue.
06-04-2021 05:16 AM
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