I think it’s coming after 2025. By making sites bid on hosting opportunities, CFB is going to advance their own goals (financially and otherwise).

Sure, the Rose Bowl could probably still get a quarterfinal each year, but maybe they’d be pressured to move it to a newer stadium, for example.

This also opens up opportunities for midwestern sites and more than the traditional 4-6 bowl committees gathering all the bids.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the 4 sites were Rose, bid-out cold-weather dome, and 2 rotating warm-weather bowls. Any notion it’ll be something other than the 4-6 bowls we often mention?

Doesn't all of this depend on when those games would be scheduled? If they are played in early December that's one thing. But if they are essentially competing with the NY6 bowls it's quite another. That, of course, assumes that there are quarter final games in the first place.

More likely, IMO, is that playoffs expand by having more teams in conference tournaments, with at least some of those games being played at one of the participant's home field. I do believe there is a limit to how many neutral site post season games fans will be willing to travel to.

Assuming an eight team Playoff, your options would be

1. Keep the semifinals and championship where they are and schedule the quarterfinals ahead of that.

2. Move the quarterfinals around New Year's Day and play the semifinals and championship after that.

Both option has their drawbacks.

For 1, when are the QF's played? Final exams are for most schools around mid December and you don't really want to mess around with Christmas. The best option IMO would be the week after the conference championship games or two Saturdays after Thanksgiving. Preferably the schools would agree to move all of their games so Rivalry Week would be the week before Thanksgiving, conference championship week would be the week of Thanksgiving, and then the quarterfinals would be the first weekend of December but I don't know if the schools would agree to that. For this option, bowls likely would not agree to be played here in place of their traditional date so likely they would probably be neutral site games or home games for the top four seeds.

For 2, the championship game creeps well into the middle of January and into the winter or spring semester in many schools.

I would choose the first option and start with home games for the top four schools.

(05-27-2021 01:42 PM)ken d Wrote:  Doesn't all of this depend on when those games would be scheduled? If they are played in early December that's one thing. But if they are essentially competing with the NY6 bowls it's quite another.

I do believe there is a limit to how many neutral site post season games fans will be willing to travel to.

You are right that dates first need to be identified. NYD will be the semis or quarters no doubt. Campus sites are almost un-doable. In late December no one is there, in early December you likely can’t maximize revenue with such a quick turnaround from CCGs. That leaves adding the extra round in either mid-December (neutral) or mid-January (National Championship). The NFL’s schedule likely influences which is more profitable for FBS.

Yes, neutral-site travel is a concern. That may favor putting the semifinals on NYD to maximize casual/general CFB fan travel while travelers who can only go to 1 game will have 2-3 weeks to go to their team’s lone guaranteed quarterfinal game.

Making these quarterfinals “regional” (ie. don’t put 3 in the South) and maybe even assigning conference champs to each quarterfinal the week BEFORE CCGs may help travel/hype.

EDIT: In a mid-December + neo-NY6 scenario, I could see "Bowl" names being added to the quarterfinals so that these teams still get to play in "bowls". That may mean the "Peach" Bowl is a NYD Access Bowl (for non-quarterfinalists) one year, a NYD semifinal another year, and a mid-December Quarterfinal the third year [for example].

I think it really depends on how the playoff is structured.

I can see 4 NYD/E bowls being the quarterfinal sites, while the right to host the semis and final are bid out to a different site each year.

This would make travel a little kinder on both the fans and teams as participating in the Quarterfinals, Semifinals, and NCG would only require traveling twice instead of 3 times.

I don't think they'll move things up. And I don't think they want to change or eliminate the Bowl season. We are talking what, 12 schools in the Playoff, but 60 others who have Bowl games. The powers that be (coaches, ADs, Confernces that pull revenue from these games, ESPN) are not interested in eliminating made for Tuesday Night TV mid-December Bowl games. Not happening, way too big a constituency impacted negatively.

The most workable solution is to use the New Years 6 as the first round, all 12 schools playing.
1) because fans still travel to a Bowl game during the Christmas - New Years Break. Max revenue for the Bowls
2) every one of the 12 schools gets that Bowl game

The second round has to be played the first weekend of January by the four lower seeds. Fans are unlikely to travel, so they need to be on campus or at a nearby NFL stadium (Detroit and Indy have domes B1G schools could use).

Same for the semifinals hosted by the top two seeds who got byes.

Championship game will be the third weekend of January or more likely a Monday Night at a National site.

This would not impact the ESPN fill in the December mid-week programming hole with MACtion November done, and allow the 60 non-Playoff teams to have their Bowl games like normal.

It extends the season two weeks with 4 on campus (or nearby) playoff games. But I think that is the most workable solution that disrupts things the least, and will have more stakeholder buy in.

(05-27-2021 02:24 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think it really depends on how the playoff is structured.

I can see 4 NYD/E bowls being the quarterfinal sites, while the right to host the semis and final are bid out to a different site each year.

This would make travel a little kinder on both the fans and teams as participating in the Quarterfinals, Semifinals, and NCG would only require traveling twice instead of 3 times.

I suppose there comes a point where you run out of parties willing to bid. I suspect one-off hosting a January 10th semifinal would not be as attractive as hosting quarters or the final. This is due primarily to the travel you'd be asking of fans before and after.

To me this points to somehow coupling the unattractive duties of hosting semifinals to the major bowls. Bid out the National Championship as now and then bid-out mid-December "Bowls" for quarterfinals; for half of these fans this will be their "bowl" game. Plus, it doesn't stretch the season much further into January. Pre-NY6 quarters would further decimate non-semi bowls though...

(05-27-2021 02:44 PM)Crayton Wrote:  

(05-27-2021 02:24 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think it really depends on how the playoff is structured.

I can see 4 NYD/E bowls being the quarterfinal sites, while the right to host the semis and final are bid out to a different site each year.

This would make travel a little kinder on both the fans and teams as participating in the Quarterfinals, Semifinals, and NCG would only require traveling twice instead of 3 times.

I suppose there comes a point where you run out of parties willing to bid. I suspect one-off hosting a January 10th semifinal would not be as attractive as hosting quarters or the final. This is due primarily to the travel you'd be asking of fans before and after.

To me this points to somehow coupling the unattractive duties of hosting semifinals to the major bowls. Bid out the National Championship as now and then bid-out mid-December "Bowls" for quarterfinals; for half of these fans this will be their "bowl" game. Plus, it doesn't stretch the season much further into January. Pre-NY6 quarters would further decimate non-semi bowls though...

I think you’re misunderstanding. Both Semi Finals and the NCG would all be hosted in the same city. Plenty of cities would be interested in hosting college football’s Final 4.

(05-27-2021 02:54 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(05-27-2021 02:44 PM)Crayton Wrote:  

(05-27-2021 02:24 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think it really depends on how the playoff is structured.

I can see 4 NYD/E bowls being the quarterfinal sites, while the right to host the semis and final are bid out to a different site each year.

This would make travel a little kinder on both the fans and teams as participating in the Quarterfinals, Semifinals, and NCG would only require traveling twice instead of 3 times.

I suppose there comes a point where you run out of parties willing to bid. I suspect one-off hosting a January 10th semifinal would not be as attractive as hosting quarters or the final. This is due primarily to the travel you'd be asking of fans before and after.

To me this points to somehow coupling the unattractive duties of hosting semifinals to the major bowls. Bid out the National Championship as now and then bid-out mid-December "Bowls" for quarterfinals; for half of these fans this will be their "bowl" game. Plus, it doesn't stretch the season much further into January. Pre-NY6 quarters would further decimate non-semi bowls though...

I think you’re misunderstanding. Both Semi Finals and the NCG would all be hosted in the same city. Plenty of cities would be interested in hosting college football’s Final 4.

Oh, I understood. We both noted the low-viability of one-off Semifinal sites. You suggested combining them with the National Championship as a single week-long event (which is perhaps the desirable solution if we have NYD bowls host Quarters). I offered solving that low-viability by putting them into the traditional NYD bowls, and auctioning off Dec 16-Dec 21 Quarterfinals.

For this to work I think they may need to make the current Week Zero into Week One or even Two. With the 17 game/18 week NFL schedule the regular season won’t end until January 9, 2022, with the expanded Wild Card weekend on 1/15/22 to 1/16/22. Neutral site quarterfinals co-opting the next highest tier of bowl games will work if no NFL competition as the top 8 teams will be able to afford it and the NFL teams that play in stadiums likely to host quarterfinal bowls (Bucs, Raiders, Titans, Jags, Rams/Chargers, Texans, Indy (?), Vikings (?)) can all have bye weeks or road games scheduled.

I'm not sure many people would travel to all three games, especially when there's major holiday spending in between, or a fourth game if the conference championship game is considered. Whichever is over New Year's is the game which people will travel to, be it the quarters or semis.

(05-27-2021 02:28 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  I don't think they'll move things up. And I don't think they want to change or eliminate the Bowl season. We are talking what, 12 schools in the Playoff, but 60 others who have Bowl games. The powers that be (coaches, ADs, Confernces that pull revenue from these games, ESPN) are not interested in eliminating made for Tuesday Night TV mid-December Bowl games. Not happening, way too big a constituency impacted negatively.

The most workable solution is to use the New Years 6 as the first round, all 12 schools playing.
1) because fans still travel to a Bowl game during the Christmas - New Years Break. Max revenue for the Bowls
2) every one of the 12 schools gets that Bowl game

The second round has to be played the first weekend of January by the four lower seeds. Fans are unlikely to travel, so they need to be on campus or at a nearby NFL stadium (Detroit and Indy have domes B1G schools could use).

Same for the semifinals hosted by the top two seeds who got byes.

Championship game will be the third weekend of January or more likely a Monday Night at a National site.

This would not impact the ESPN fill in the December mid-week programming hole with MACtion November done, and allow the 60 non-Playoff teams to have their Bowl games like normal.

It extends the season two weeks with 4 on campus (or nearby) playoff games. But I think that is the most workable solution that disrupts things the least, and will have more stakeholder buy in.

I don’t like the idea of having 12 teams play in 6 bowls, and then letting 2 teams have a 2nd round bye. That’s just plain wonky. If there’s going to be byes, it should be in the first round. If you’re going to use the bowls as the opening round sites, then just do 8, or do 16.

(05-27-2021 07:58 PM)Renandpat Wrote:  I'm not sure many people would travel to all three games, especially when there's major holiday spending in between, or a fourth game if the conference championship game is considered. Whichever is over New Year's is the game which people will travel to, be it the quarters or semis.

Ya. It's a tall ask. The National Championship will also do well as a neutral site because it is the "biggest" game of College Football. The question is where to add a third round. Between NYD and the NC? At either NYD or NC sites (no extra travel)? On campus in early December? Neutral sites in mid-December?

Then again, these are more of TV events. In person attendance is secondary. The first question asked will be which weekend can we get the most TV eyeballs (noting again, the need to work around the NFL). And, I think the answer to that is the third Saturday in December (sure, with a Friday night game too), not NFL Wild Card Weekend.

(05-27-2021 08:18 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I don’t like the idea of having 12 teams play in 6 bowls, and then letting 2 teams have a 2nd round bye. That’s just plain wonky. If there’s going to be byes, it should be in the first round. If you’re going to use the bowls as the opening round sites, then just do 8, or do 16.

What is wonky is trying to get say Oklahoma fans who just traveled to Orlando to play round one to then travel to Pasadena on short notice to play in round two, as if there were any tickets or hotel rooms left.

You are ignoring powers that be. To have regular byes means you sacrifice attendance and more importantly hotel room and various attractions sales to the two biggest Bowls (always Rose and somebody else) so you can have a nice schedule. Those Bowls pushed up to Christmas will also suffer because fans will not come early with kids still in school and family visits and all around Christmas. This is why the Biggest Bowls and the first round of the Playoffs have to be around New Years. You leave far too much money on the table for the organizers of these events. They wont go for that.

And you can't have 4 "B" level Bowls being play-ins because you have removed likely 6 (I figure one will be G5 and another a lesser traveling fan base team among the 8 first round schools) of your biggest brands with huge traveling fan bases off the New Years list. That is absolutely terrible business plan, a built in fail.

Face it, 12 is going to be wonky no matter how you do it. But you have to look at maximizing the revenue. And that means 6 first round games, with the results determining who gets 2nd round byes.

(05-27-2021 11:34 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(05-27-2021 08:18 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I don’t like the idea of having 12 teams play in 6 bowls, and then letting 2 teams have a 2nd round bye. That’s just plain wonky. If there’s going to be byes, it should be in the first round. If you’re going to use the bowls as the opening round sites, then just do 8, or do 16.

What is wonky is trying to get say Oklahoma fans who just traveled to Orlando to play round one to then travel to Pasadena on short notice to play in round two, as if there were any tickets or hotel rooms left.

You are ignoring powers that be. To have regular byes means you sacrifice attendance and more importantly hotel room and various attractions sales to the two biggest Bowls (always Rose and somebody else) so you can have a nice schedule. Those Bowls pushed up to Christmas will also suffer because fans will not come early with kids still in school and family visits and all around Christmas. This is why the Biggest Bowls and the first round of the Playoffs have to be around New Years. You leave far too much money on the table for the organizers of these events. They wont go for that.

For those Oklahoma fans, I don't know if Orlando (Dec 18) to Pasadena (Jan 1) is any different than Pasadena (Jan 1) to Tampa (Jan 15); especially if you add an unnecessary, potential campus game on January 8th (again, why?).

This thread was predicated in part on the FBS bypassing bowls' concerns and maximizing their own (ie. Television) revenue. NYD hotels have the same number of rooms whether they are booked 4 weeks out or 2 weeks out. Fans will have to choose which round to attend regardless of when the extra rounds are added; but more choices mean more accessible choices for some fans (I may never go to the Rose Bowl, but attending a playoff game in Florida could happen).

The biggest bowls will continue to be around NYD; that is the best time to watch bowl games whether on TV or in person. But that does not mean you have to give those bowls prime position in the playoff too. I say (not Muskie) pair their NYD strength with the biggest weakness of a 3-round playoff, the middle round.

(05-27-2021 11:34 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(05-27-2021 08:18 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I don’t like the idea of having 12 teams play in 6 bowls, and then letting 2 teams have a 2nd round bye. That’s just plain wonky. If there’s going to be byes, it should be in the first round. If you’re going to use the bowls as the opening round sites, then just do 8, or do 16.

What is wonky is trying to get say Oklahoma fans who just traveled to Orlando to play round one to then travel to Pasadena on short notice to play in round two, as if there were any tickets or hotel rooms left.

You are ignoring powers that be. To have regular byes means you sacrifice attendance and more importantly hotel room and various attractions sales to the two biggest Bowls (always Rose and somebody else) so you can have a nice schedule. Those Bowls pushed up to Christmas will also suffer because fans will not come early with kids still in school and family visits and all around Christmas. This is why the Biggest Bowls and the first round of the Playoffs have to be around New Years. You leave far too much money on the table for the organizers of these events. They wont go for that.

And you can't have 4 "B" level Bowls being play-ins because you have removed likely 6 (I figure one will be G5 and another a lesser traveling fan base team among the 8 first round schools) of your biggest brands with huge traveling fan bases off the New Years list. That is absolutely terrible business plan, a built in fail.

Face it, 12 is going to be wonky no matter how you do it. But you have to look at maximizing the revenue. And that means 6 first round games, with the results determining who gets 2nd round byes.

It makes far more sense to let seeds 5-12 duke out the opening round the 3rd Saturday in December at campus sites, with the winners advancing to face seeds 1-4 in NYD/E bowls.

One city hosts the Final 4 in January, Synch the Semifinals for the same weekend as the Pro Bowl and play the NCG the day before the Super Bowl.

This is the most logical way to do 12 teams.

(05-27-2021 01:42 PM)ken d Wrote:  Doesn't all of this depend on when those games would be scheduled? If they are played in early December that's one thing. But if they are essentially competing with the NY6 bowls it's quite another. That, of course, assumes that there are quarter final games in the first place.

More likely, IMO, is that playoffs expand by having more teams in conference tournaments, with at least some of those games being played at one of the participant's home field. I do believe there is a limit to how many neutral site post season games fans will be willing to travel to.

In an 8 team playoff, the 1-4 ranked teams should get 1st game at home.

(05-28-2021 06:53 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(05-27-2021 01:42 PM)ken d Wrote:  Doesn't all of this depend on when those games would be scheduled? If they are played in early December that's one thing. But if they are essentially competing with the NY6 bowls it's quite another. That, of course, assumes that there are quarter final games in the first place.

More likely, IMO, is that playoffs expand by having more teams in conference tournaments, with at least some of those games being played at one of the participant's home field. I do believe there is a limit to how many neutral site post season games fans will be willing to travel to.

In an 8 team playoff, the 1-4 ranked teams should get 1st game at home.

I like setting the round of 8 at the bowl sites. Obviously the higher seeds would get to host at the bowls of their choice.

With the NFL even having Saturday games on Week 18 for the 2021-22 regular season, I just don't see a way for the quarterfinals to be played on New Year's Day, unless if the semifinals are both played mid-week. The last real window for Saturday games would be NFL Week 14. Even then there would be the issue of having four unique broadcast windows on one day, which would likely necessitate a Friday night game,

(05-30-2021 04:05 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  With the NFL even having Saturday games on Week 18 for the 2021-22 regular season, I just don't see a way for the quarterfinals to be played on New Year's Day, unless if the semifinals are both played mid-week. The last real window for Saturday games would be NFL Week 14. Even then there would be the issue of having four unique broadcast windows on one day, which would likely necessitate a Friday night game,

In this upcoming NFL season, Saturday of Week 18 will be January 8, not New Year's Day. I expect this to be the case in future seasons when NYD is on a Saturday because the start of the season is determined by Labor Day.