(05-27-2021 05:46 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-27-2021 04:55 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(05-27-2021 04:39 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  Just read the email from the President of the BOT thanking Leebron and enumerating the changes at Rice during Leebron’s tenure. My quick read found only one sentence referencing anything related to Athletics.

“Other new and refurbished athletics facilities, including Tudor Field House, the Patterson Sports Performance Center, George R. Brown Tennis Center and enhanced facilities for soccer and track and field, helped bring support and excitement to our athletics programs.”

16 paragraphs and that’s it. Says a lot IMO.

??? What did you want them to include? The President is not responsible for the on-field or on-court performance of the individual sports programs.

On the counterpoint, if Rice had had significant athletic success in his tenure, dollar to donuts that paragraph would be far, far beefier.

There was plenty of athletic success during his tenure-- in baseball, football and, especially, the women's sports programs which are currently far and away the best in the history of the university.

(05-27-2021 07:31 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(05-27-2021 05:46 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-27-2021 04:55 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(05-27-2021 04:39 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  Just read the email from the President of the BOT thanking Leebron and enumerating the changes at Rice during Leebron’s tenure. My quick read found only one sentence referencing anything related to Athletics.

“Other new and refurbished athletics facilities, including Tudor Field House, the Patterson Sports Performance Center, George R. Brown Tennis Center and enhanced facilities for soccer and track and field, helped bring support and excitement to our athletics programs.”

16 paragraphs and that’s it. Says a lot IMO.

??? What did you want them to include? The President is not responsible for the on-field or on-court performance of the individual sports programs.

On the counterpoint, if Rice had had significant athletic success in his tenure, dollar to donuts that paragraph would be far, far beefier.

There was plenty of athletic success during his tenure-- in baseball, football and, especially, the women's sports programs which are currently far and away the best in the history of the university.

The problem with that history is that it is the history of 'flash' followed by the dull thud of a body hitting on the rocks at the base.

For baseball, it can be argued that Leebron oversaw probably the most dramatic and comprehensive crash of an elite baseball program in the timeframe. Leebron started his tenure with the baseball program near the apogee of its success, and ended it nearly a score years later unable to even get into a dumpster fire of a conference championship tournament. I hardly call that a 'success'.

Football? Kind of the same course, but with far fewer up points. Rice football high points were two 10 win seasons, with an 8 win and a 7 win. At the end of the tenure we have 5, 3, 1, 2, 3, and 2 wins. Which, and I am not a stats guru, kind of plants us probably at least in the bottom 5 win total in D1 for that 6 year period we have endured.

So no, I would *not* characterize the marquee sports as having anything near a 'success' in that 18 year time span.

Is this an indictment of Leebron for the sports dumpster fire in marquee sports? No. But I understand why the 16 paragraph list of achievements short-shrifted the dumpster fire of a sports program that Rice lapsed *back* into during his tenure.

I mean, it would be fair to call the marquee sports at Rice at the end of his tenure even worse than when I was there in the mid- to late-80's, which is a pretty strong indictment of the ineptness of the Rice D1 marquee program.

(05-27-2021 07:57 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I mean, it would be fair to call the marquee sports at Rice at the end of his tenure even worse than when I was there in the mid- to late-80's, which is a pretty strong indictment of the ineptness of the Rice D1 marquee program.

agree 1000% with that period probably the worse in history, but i would be willing to bet, except for maybe BSKB, those teams would assault our current teams which are pathetic in a conference full of teams we used to play for a OOC win. Now granted, we did lose to NTSU, USL, and SWTSU (using their old names) in the 80's.

FYI for all of the praise that Khator gets on this board (whether you agree with it or not), her handling of the football program over the past four years has been miles more comical than anything JK has done in his tenure. Firing Applewhite (an average coach) after an 8-5 year in his second year (purely because of a bad bowl loss), publicly saying that they'll fire coaches that win 8 games and that 10 wins is the baseline, and then hiring Holgorsen (a decidedly average coach) who has won a grand total of 7 games in two years is an abomination.

(05-27-2021 06:21 PM)RiceFootball2K5 Wrote:  

(05-27-2021 06:15 PM)Kayjay Wrote:  As a non-Rice graduate but long time Rice fan this entire thread is so disappointing. President Leebron has done a pretty amazing job at Rice in so many ways. Rob Ladd’s most recent comments do a great job summarizing the incredible changes that Rice has gone thru over the past 18 years. It is really impressive. As a long time business executive, I can tell you that Rice became a force in Houston during the Gillis and Leebron stewardship’s.

Over the past several years, Rice woman’s athletics have become a significant national powerhouse and have met Dr. Karlgaards objective of being nationally competitive in their respective sports programs. Further, despite all the noise about Football and Basketball, During David Leebron’s tenure, Rice went to and won more bowl games than the University had done during the previous decade(s). Coach Pera has slowly developed a program that can compete in CUSA and hopefully will continue to do so. Dr. K. also pulled the trigger on Coach Bragga’s contract after learning from his experience in Football (I believe he waited one year too long).

I seriously disagree with many of the earlier comments about David Leebron and Dr. Karlgaard. I am sure that is par for the course in the same types of conversations. Rice is better for his 18 years as the institution’s leader. That being said, I look forward to new leadership and the opportunities that will open

Giving Karlgaard credit for terminating Bragga and Bailiff's contracts is interesting given he was the one who gave them those contracts.

I have made many mistakes in my business career regarding the selection and promotion of people. Recognizing when you have made a mistake in a hiring decision or that someone is in a job that they cannot handle and moving forward appropriately is a skill that is difficult to execute, especially when you are talking about employment contracts (not “at will” employees) and the fallout with their colleagues, assistants and the student athletes that they are leading. So I do give Dr. Karlgaard credit for moving forward with these decisions. Termination decisions disrupt lives and most of the people involved are good people, just not the right fit for the job.

(05-27-2021 11:15 PM)elw4796 Wrote:  FYI for all of the praise that Khator gets on this board (whether you agree with it or not), her handling of the football program over the past four years has been miles more comical than anything JK has done in his tenure. Firing Applewhite (an average coach) after an 8-5 year in his second year (purely because of a bad bowl loss), publicly saying that they'll fire coaches that win 8 games and that 10 wins is the baseline, and then hiring Holgorsen (a decidedly average coach) who has won a grand total of 7 games in two years is an abomination.

She's the President, not the AD.

(05-28-2021 08:52 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(05-27-2021 11:15 PM)elw4796 Wrote:  FYI for all of the praise that Khator gets on this board (whether you agree with it or not), her handling of the football program over the past four years has been miles more comical than anything JK has done in his tenure. Firing Applewhite (an average coach) after an 8-5 year in his second year (purely because of a bad bowl loss), publicly saying that they'll fire coaches that win 8 games and that 10 wins is the baseline, and then hiring Holgorsen (a decidedly average coach) who has won a grand total of 7 games in two years is an abomination.

She's the President, not the AD.

I'm not sure of where I called her the AD. Nor do I understand how her being either the AD or president would have bearing on what I wrote. Everybody knows Khator (and Fertitta) has her hands in every major U of H athletics decision.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/st...-holgorsen

(05-28-2021 11:17 AM)elw4796 Wrote:  

(05-28-2021 08:52 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(05-27-2021 11:15 PM)elw4796 Wrote:  FYI for all of the praise that Khator gets on this board (whether you agree with it or not), her handling of the football program over the past four years has been miles more comical than anything JK has done in his tenure. Firing Applewhite (an average coach) after an 8-5 year in his second year (purely because of a bad bowl loss), publicly saying that they'll fire coaches that win 8 games and that 10 wins is the baseline, and then hiring Holgorsen (a decidedly average coach) who has won a grand total of 7 games in two years is an abomination.

She's the President, not the AD.

I'm not sure of where I called her the AD. Nor do I understand how her being either the AD or president would have bearing on what I wrote. Everybody knows Khator (and Fertitta) has her hands in every major U of H athletics decision.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/st...-holgorsen

I wouldn't expect that evaluating coaches was one of her skills. Her job would be to empower and fund the ADs ability to hire and fire as needed. Absolutely she would have a hand in the financial decisions.... as of course would Fertitta, who is likely writing the checks to fund it.

You MIGHT be able to chastise her for hiring an AD who did what you describe... but she doesn't manage the football program like JK does.

Back to Leebron's actions: president@rice.edu announced the COVID protocols for this fall. They intend to have normal operations this fall; no more regularly remote instructors over Zoom. To achieve a 90% vaccination rate in the total campus community, all students are going to be required to get a vaccination unless they have an approved medical or religious waiver. They do not expect to give many such waivers. Foreign students unable to get a vaccine at home will receive assistance from the school to be vaccinated upon return to campus.* Employees can still decline the vaccine.

Anybody who does not take the vaccine, whether by choice or waiver, will have to do weekly testing and still wear masks at all times indoors. No masks for vaccinated individuals. They did not make a commitment for what, if any, policy changes would be made when the 90% goal is met. Students will get more info in mid-June.

* I'm curious about how they will handle the Russian or Chinese vaccines that aren't approved in the EU or US. While we may not trust that those are adequately effective, we also have no data that I'm aware of as to how safe it may be to also take another manufacturer's vaccine.

(05-28-2021 01:23 PM)franklyconfused Wrote:  Back to Leebron's actions: president@rice.edu announced the COVID protocols for this fall. They intend to have normal operations this fall; no more regularly remote instructors over Zoom. To achieve a 90% vaccination rate in the total campus community, all students are going to be required to get a vaccination unless they have an approved medical or religious waiver. They do not expect to give many such waivers. Foreign students unable to get a vaccine at home will receive assistance from the school to be vaccinated upon return to campus.* Employees can still decline the vaccine.

Anybody who does not take the vaccine, whether by choice or waiver, will have to do weekly testing and still wear masks at all times indoors. No masks for vaccinated individuals. They did not make a commitment for what, if any, policy changes would be made when the 90% goal is met. Students will get more info in mid-June.

* I'm curious about how they will handle the Russian or Chinese vaccines that aren't approved in the EU or US. While we may not trust that those are adequately effective, we also have no data that I'm aware of as to how safe it may be to also take another manufacturer's vaccine.

Figures!!! Question, how will they know who is vaccinated while walking around campus (without mask, distancing etc)? I mean if you "identify" as vaccinated are you? Just a thought on enforcement. FYI, I've been fully vaccinated (by choice) but I'll be danged if I'll advertise that or answer the question if asked.

(05-27-2021 07:45 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  In fairness to Leebron, I don't think he is nearly as anti-athletics as people here seem to think.

I am personally aware of things that he did, behind the scenes, to help athletics that neither Gillis nor Hackerman, despite their public cheerleading for athletics, would ever have done. He did acquiesce to having a decidedly anti-athletics prof on the selection committee that hired Ranger Rick, and that was probably his most anti-athletics move. I have also been much less favorably impressed with Leebron post-Baylor Med fiasco than before.

His problem is that whatever he wants for athletics, he doesn't know how to go about getting it. That's not his skill set. And the underlings that he has to count on to guide him--Ranger Rick and Karlgaard--have been singularly inept at providing any sort of viable guiding vision.

Leebron doesn't know and never did know what he wanted for athletics. Law schools don't have athletics programs, and Ivy League law schools in particular have no concept of how athletics can augment the overall brand for a university. Ivies do not need to brand-build.

In any event, after 18 years, he owns what Rice Athletics is anyway. If he wanted it to be anything other than what it is, it was his job to make it so, by hiring the right person for AD and holding him/her accountable if progress towards the Leebron goal was not being achieved. It is self-evident that Leebron's goal for Rice Athletics has been nothing more ambitious than graduating kids and not breaking any NCAA rules or embarrassing the university. He has never seen a decline in need of arresting and reversing, he has seen a status quo in need of maintaining. Res ipsa loquitur.

(05-28-2021 01:32 PM)Musicowl1965 Wrote:  Figures!!! Question, how will they know who is vaccinated while walking around campus (without mask, distancing etc)? I mean if you "identify" as vaccinated are you? Just a thought on enforcement. FYI, I've been fully vaccinated (by choice) but I'll be danged if I'll advertise that or answer the question if asked.

I assume those details are still being worked out. They haven't required anybody provide any proof of vaccination so far; the 80%+ rate today is all self-reported data. They probably will require proof from students now, but I expect that info will be in the June message.

With respect to enforcement, because this is medical information, I think they'll be quite limited in what they can do. On the employee side, I'm sure there's some level of management that can be told which of their reports must be wearing a mask. For the students, I would expect the college masters/magisters to know as well as faculty who have unvaccinated students, but I doubt the student judicial reps can have access to that info. I can't imagine that they can do any degree of enforcement in public spaces except over employees who work there unless an unvaccinated, unmasked individual coincidentally runs into one of the handful of people who knows they're supposed to wear a mask.

Let's also keep in mind that they're already at 80%, and some of the remote students might not have reported their vaccination status knowing that they weren't coming on campus in the near future. The vast majority of people are already cleared to not wear a mask. Wearing a mask will be the exception, so nobody is going to give a second thought to an unmasked reader in Fondren or a group talking at Brochstein.

(05-28-2021 02:14 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  

(05-27-2021 07:45 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  In fairness to Leebron, I don't think he is nearly as anti-athletics as people here seem to think.

I am personally aware of things that he did, behind the scenes, to help athletics that neither Gillis nor Hackerman, despite their public cheerleading for athletics, would ever have done. He did acquiesce to having a decidedly anti-athletics prof on the selection committee that hired Ranger Rick, and that was probably his most anti-athletics move. I have also been much less favorably impressed with Leebron post-Baylor Med fiasco than before.

His problem is that whatever he wants for athletics, he doesn't know how to go about getting it. That's not his skill set. And the underlings that he has to count on to guide him--Ranger Rick and Karlgaard--have been singularly inept at providing any sort of viable guiding vision.

Leebron doesn't know and never did know what he wanted for athletics. Law schools don't have athletics programs, and Ivy League law schools in particular have no concept of how athletics can augment the overall brand for a university. Ivies do not need to brand-build.

In any event, after 18 years, he owns what Rice Athletics is anyway. If he wanted it to be anything other than what it is, it was his job to make it so, by hiring the right person for AD and holding him/her accountable if progress towards the Leebron goal was not being achieved. It is self-evident that Leebron's goal for Rice Athletics has been nothing more ambitious than graduating kids and not breaking any NCAA rules or embarrassing the university. He has never seen a decline in need of arresting and reversing, he has seen a status quo in need of maintaining. Res ipsa loquitur.

Nailed it there ^

The failure to hire David Sayler started the death of the program. Look at the committee who picked Greenspan for the fingerprints.

(05-28-2021 09:55 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  The failure to hire David Sayler started the death of the program. Look at the committee who picked Greenspan for the fingerprints.

In doing some quick research on the makeup of that search committee, I found this article in an issue of the Rice Magazine.

https://issuu.com/riceuniversity/docs/ri...sue_6/2?ff

Anyone else find it ironic that the article introducing Ranger Rick is followed immediately by an article on Arsalan Kazemi?

(05-28-2021 01:32 PM)Musicowl1965 Wrote:  

(05-28-2021 01:23 PM)franklyconfused Wrote:  Back to Leebron's actions: president@rice.edu announced the COVID protocols for this fall. They intend to have normal operations this fall; no more regularly remote instructors over Zoom. To achieve a 90% vaccination rate in the total campus community, all students are going to be required to get a vaccination unless they have an approved medical or religious waiver. They do not expect to give many such waivers. Foreign students unable to get a vaccine at home will receive assistance from the school to be vaccinated upon return to campus.* Employees can still decline the vaccine.

Anybody who does not take the vaccine, whether by choice or waiver, will have to do weekly testing and still wear masks at all times indoors. No masks for vaccinated individuals. They did not make a commitment for what, if any, policy changes would be made when the 90% goal is met. Students will get more info in mid-June.

* I'm curious about how they will handle the Russian or Chinese vaccines that aren't approved in the EU or US. While we may not trust that those are adequately effective, we also have no data that I'm aware of as to how safe it may be to also take another manufacturer's vaccine.

Figures!!! Question, how will they know who is vaccinated while walking around campus (without mask, distancing etc)? I mean if you "identify" as vaccinated are you? Just a thought on enforcement. FYI, I've been fully vaccinated (by choice) but I'll be danged if I'll advertise that or answer the question if asked.

I remember measles being a problem in the early 1980s and Rice requiring us to show proof of vaccination or get the vaccine.

(05-29-2021 07:17 AM)ESE84 Wrote:  

(05-28-2021 01:32 PM)Musicowl1965 Wrote:  

(05-28-2021 01:23 PM)franklyconfused Wrote:  Back to Leebron's actions: president@rice.edu announced the COVID protocols for this fall. They intend to have normal operations this fall; no more regularly remote instructors over Zoom. To achieve a 90% vaccination rate in the total campus community, all students are going to be required to get a vaccination unless they have an approved medical or religious waiver. They do not expect to give many such waivers. Foreign students unable to get a vaccine at home will receive assistance from the school to be vaccinated upon return to campus.* Employees can still decline the vaccine.

Anybody who does not take the vaccine, whether by choice or waiver, will have to do weekly testing and still wear masks at all times indoors. No masks for vaccinated individuals. They did not make a commitment for what, if any, policy changes would be made when the 90% goal is met. Students will get more info in mid-June.

* I'm curious about how they will handle the Russian or Chinese vaccines that aren't approved in the EU or US. While we may not trust that those are adequately effective, we also have no data that I'm aware of as to how safe it may be to also take another manufacturer's vaccine.

Figures!!! Question, how will they know who is vaccinated while walking around campus (without mask, distancing etc)? I mean if you "identify" as vaccinated are you? Just a thought on enforcement. FYI, I've been fully vaccinated (by choice) but I'll be danged if I'll advertise that or answer the question if asked.

I remember measles being a problem in the early 1980s and Rice requiring us to show proof of vaccination or get the vaccine.

Doesn’t Rice still do that for meningitis?

(05-29-2021 07:24 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-29-2021 07:17 AM)ESE84 Wrote:  

(05-28-2021 01:32 PM)Musicowl1965 Wrote:  

(05-28-2021 01:23 PM)franklyconfused Wrote:  Back to Leebron's actions: president@rice.edu announced the COVID protocols for this fall. They intend to have normal operations this fall; no more regularly remote instructors over Zoom. To achieve a 90% vaccination rate in the total campus community, all students are going to be required to get a vaccination unless they have an approved medical or religious waiver. They do not expect to give many such waivers. Foreign students unable to get a vaccine at home will receive assistance from the school to be vaccinated upon return to campus.* Employees can still decline the vaccine.

Anybody who does not take the vaccine, whether by choice or waiver, will have to do weekly testing and still wear masks at all times indoors. No masks for vaccinated individuals. They did not make a commitment for what, if any, policy changes would be made when the 90% goal is met. Students will get more info in mid-June.

* I'm curious about how they will handle the Russian or Chinese vaccines that aren't approved in the EU or US. While we may not trust that those are adequately effective, we also have no data that I'm aware of as to how safe it may be to also take another manufacturer's vaccine.

Figures!!! Question, how will they know who is vaccinated while walking around campus (without mask, distancing etc)? I mean if you "identify" as vaccinated are you? Just a thought on enforcement. FYI, I've been fully vaccinated (by choice) but I'll be danged if I'll advertise that or answer the question if asked.

I remember measles being a problem in the early 1980s and Rice requiring us to show proof of vaccination or get the vaccine.

Doesn’t Rice still do that for meningitis?

From the current General Announcements, with my highlighting.

Quote:New students may not register or attend classes until they return a properly completed health data form and meet immunization and TB screening requirements. Additionally, all first-time undergraduate students, including transfers, must meet the meningococcal meningitis vaccine requirement to live on campus. Immunizations required for admission are diphtheria/tetanus, measles, rubella, and [sic] mumps, meningococcal meningitis, with immunizations against hepatitis B and chicken pox recommended. The Mantoux tuberculin skin test is also required. A late fee of $30 is charged for failure to submit a fully completed health data form by the required date.

Not to speak for Musicowl1965, anti-vaccine arguments novel for COVID, as I've seen them, accuse the emergency use authorization process of being inadequate to evaluate safety, especially given the new mRNA technology, or claim that the disease just isn't dangerous enough to justify a mandate. I haven't seen any other arguments that would not do away with all vaccines.

(05-29-2021 07:40 AM)franklyconfused Wrote:  

(05-29-2021 07:24 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-29-2021 07:17 AM)ESE84 Wrote:  

(05-28-2021 01:32 PM)Musicowl1965 Wrote:  

(05-28-2021 01:23 PM)franklyconfused Wrote:  Back to Leebron's actions: president@rice.edu announced the COVID protocols for this fall. They intend to have normal operations this fall; no more regularly remote instructors over Zoom. To achieve a 90% vaccination rate in the total campus community, all students are going to be required to get a vaccination unless they have an approved medical or religious waiver. They do not expect to give many such waivers. Foreign students unable to get a vaccine at home will receive assistance from the school to be vaccinated upon return to campus.* Employees can still decline the vaccine.

Anybody who does not take the vaccine, whether by choice or waiver, will have to do weekly testing and still wear masks at all times indoors. No masks for vaccinated individuals. They did not make a commitment for what, if any, policy changes would be made when the 90% goal is met. Students will get more info in mid-June.

* I'm curious about how they will handle the Russian or Chinese vaccines that aren't approved in the EU or US. While we may not trust that those are adequately effective, we also have no data that I'm aware of as to how safe it may be to also take another manufacturer's vaccine.

Figures!!! Question, how will they know who is vaccinated while walking around campus (without mask, distancing etc)? I mean if you "identify" as vaccinated are you? Just a thought on enforcement. FYI, I've been fully vaccinated (by choice) but I'll be danged if I'll advertise that or answer the question if asked.

I remember measles being a problem in the early 1980s and Rice requiring us to show proof of vaccination or get the vaccine.

Doesn’t Rice still do that for meningitis?

From the current General Announcements, with my highlighting.

Quote:New students may not register or attend classes until they return a properly completed health data form and meet immunization and TB screening requirements. Additionally, all first-time undergraduate students, including transfers, must meet the meningococcal meningitis vaccine requirement to live on campus. Immunizations required for admission are diphtheria/tetanus, measles, rubella, and [sic] mumps, meningococcal meningitis, with immunizations against hepatitis B and chicken pox recommended. The Mantoux tuberculin skin test is also required. A late fee of $30 is charged for failure to submit a fully completed health data form by the required date.

Not to speak for Musicowl1965, anti-vaccine arguments novel for COVID, as I've seen them, accuse the emergency use authorization process of being inadequate to evaluate safety, especially given the new mRNA technology, or claim that the disease just isn't dangerous enough to justify a mandate. I haven't seen any other arguments that would not do away with all vaccines.

Nailed it. I'm definitely NOT anti-vax. I'm fine with all the immunization requirements however it has NOT been authorized for widespread use...yet. And I do believe COVID is NOT dangerous to the VAST (+95%) of college age students. So, it is NOT a meningitis equivalent. But real question is, if they are not asking for proof of vaccine how will they know. Maybe they are and I've just not seen it. Either way not necessary for college age unless they want it. It's a matter of choice but I guess "choice" is just a matter of ideology or narrative that one is pushing.

(05-29-2021 10:53 AM)Musicowl1965 Wrote:  

(05-29-2021 07:40 AM)franklyconfused Wrote:  

(05-29-2021 07:24 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-29-2021 07:17 AM)ESE84 Wrote:  

(05-28-2021 01:32 PM)Musicowl1965 Wrote:  Figures!!! Question, how will they know who is vaccinated while walking around campus (without mask, distancing etc)? I mean if you "identify" as vaccinated are you? Just a thought on enforcement. FYI, I've been fully vaccinated (by choice) but I'll be danged if I'll advertise that or answer the question if asked.

I remember measles being a problem in the early 1980s and Rice requiring us to show proof of vaccination or get the vaccine.

Doesn’t Rice still do that for meningitis?

From the current General Announcements, with my highlighting.

Quote:New students may not register or attend classes until they return a properly completed health data form and meet immunization and TB screening requirements. Additionally, all first-time undergraduate students, including transfers, must meet the meningococcal meningitis vaccine requirement to live on campus. Immunizations required for admission are diphtheria/tetanus, measles, rubella, and [sic] mumps, meningococcal meningitis, with immunizations against hepatitis B and chicken pox recommended. The Mantoux tuberculin skin test is also required. A late fee of $30 is charged for failure to submit a fully completed health data form by the required date.

Not to speak for Musicowl1965, anti-vaccine arguments novel for COVID, as I've seen them, accuse the emergency use authorization process of being inadequate to evaluate safety, especially given the new mRNA technology, or claim that the disease just isn't dangerous enough to justify a mandate. I haven't seen any other arguments that would not do away with all vaccines.

Nailed it. I'm definitely NOT anti-vax. I'm fine with all the immunization requirements however it has NOT been authorized for widespread use...yet. And I do believe COVID is NOT dangerous to the VAST (+95%) of college age students. So, it is NOT a meningitis equivalent. But real question is, if they are not asking for proof of vaccine how will they know. Maybe they are and I've just not seen it. Either way not necessary for college age unless they want it. It's a matter of choice but I guess "choice" is just a matter of ideology or narrative that one is pushing.

Doesn't seem to say anything about Experimental Biological Agents in there. Some people might not care what they put into their bodies, but then, some do.