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dansplaining Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Cheating in CFB
(06-10-2021 10:23 AM)emu steve Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 09:48 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 09:30 AM)emu steve Wrote:  In a subject near and dear to DP's heart, Washington Post had a sentence or two indicating that states are moving ahead on their NIL (and if you don't know what NIL is, ask DP) legislation ahead of the federal government.

The sentence refers to trying to get an upper hand in recruiting. A 5-star QB might be told his NIL possibilities are much, much greater at Clemson than say Arkansas. A 3-star QB might be told that his NIL possibilities are much, much greater in K'zoo (the wellspring of money) than EMU.

I think opening up NIL rights to players is going to add a new dimension to athletics departments. Part of the recruiting pitch is going to be how can we help you - a player - market yourself to maximize your earning potential. From a business education perspective - this is really neat. I think the schools that will benefit the most will be the biggest P5 schools for obvious reasons followed by G5 schools that are the ONLY game in town. Think Boise State, New Mexico, Nevada, Georgia Southern, UTEP - places where you can become a bit of a local celebrity.

I'm not sure Western's donation will help them in this case because it is my understanding that the money has to come from third parties and not the university proper.

If i was a local bar or restaurant you best believe i would want to sign a few players to appear in ads or whatever.

I agree with your comments. The K'zoo comment was mostly in jest but they are the only game in town, being far from both MSU and UofM.

The biggest problem EMU has, and no one talks about it, is that we have so little corporate sponsorship.

How much corporate offices, etc. are there east of US-23?

Can you imagine the fun Dan McL. would have in Boise with the whole damn state at his feet? Or UNLV?

Out my way, how about U. of Maryland with all of D.C. and the life science companies in Montgomery County?

I genuinely don't know how conflicts of interest would work with this stuff. for example, Little Caesars is the official pizza of EMU football. What if Cottage Inn offers some players money to appear in ads or sponsorship? On the flip side - would it put the university in a precarious position to hook up their players with their sponsors - funneling that sponsorship into the players may be seen as a violation of the school not paying the players directly.
06-10-2021 10:26 AM
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emu steve Online
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Post: #62
RE: Cheating in CFB
(06-10-2021 10:26 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 10:23 AM)emu steve Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 09:48 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 09:30 AM)emu steve Wrote:  In a subject near and dear to DP's heart, Washington Post had a sentence or two indicating that states are moving ahead on their NIL (and if you don't know what NIL is, ask DP) legislation ahead of the federal government.

The sentence refers to trying to get an upper hand in recruiting. A 5-star QB might be told his NIL possibilities are much, much greater at Clemson than say Arkansas. A 3-star QB might be told that his NIL possibilities are much, much greater in K'zoo (the wellspring of money) than EMU.

I think opening up NIL rights to players is going to add a new dimension to athletics departments. Part of the recruiting pitch is going to be how can we help you - a player - market yourself to maximize your earning potential. From a business education perspective - this is really neat. I think the schools that will benefit the most will be the biggest P5 schools for obvious reasons followed by G5 schools that are the ONLY game in town. Think Boise State, New Mexico, Nevada, Georgia Southern, UTEP - places where you can become a bit of a local celebrity.

I'm not sure Western's donation will help them in this case because it is my understanding that the money has to come from third parties and not the university proper.

If i was a local bar or restaurant you best believe i would want to sign a few players to appear in ads or whatever.

I agree with your comments. The K'zoo comment was mostly in jest but they are the only game in town, being far from both MSU and UofM.

The biggest problem EMU has, and no one talks about it, is that we have so little corporate sponsorship.

How much corporate offices, etc. are there east of US-23?

Can you imagine the fun Dan McL. would have in Boise with the whole damn state at his feet? Or UNLV?

Out my way, how about U. of Maryland with all of D.C. and the life science companies in Montgomery County?

I genuinely don't know how conflicts of interest would work with this stuff. for example, Little Caesars is the official pizza of EMU football. What if Cottage Inn offers some players money to appear in ads or sponsorship? On the flip side - would it put the university in a precarious position to hook up their players with their sponsors - funneling that sponsorship into the players may be seen as a violation of the school not paying the players directly.

BTW, I'm way ahead of you on this. I asked about Little Caesars. Our 'deal' with Little Caesars is with the franchisee not the chain.

You are really making my point for me. We list small businesses while the mega businesses are in Ann Arbor.

Northwood Institute in Midland has Dow. What do we have?

Getting back to K'zoo. Here is what is happening less than 10 miles away in Portage:

https://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/202...rtage.html

What do we have near us?
(This post was last modified: 06-10-2021 11:09 AM by emu steve.)
06-10-2021 10:58 AM
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emu steve Online
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Post: #63
RE: Cheating in CFB
Here is the quote from WaPo:

"Most state bills have passed with bipartisan support, with states jockeying to pass expansive rules that will allow them to more easily recruit athletes. But on a federal level, the proposition of bipartisan legislation is far trickier. "

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/20...l-hearing/
06-10-2021 12:37 PM
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dansplaining Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Cheating in CFB
(06-10-2021 12:37 PM)emu steve Wrote:  Here is the quote from WaPo:

"Most state bills have passed with bipartisan support, with states jockeying to pass expansive rules that will allow them to more easily recruit athletes. But on a federal level, the proposition of bipartisan legislation is far trickier. "

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/20...l-hearing/

If i was a state with a football program that was underachieving like Nebraska, or Michigan, or California - i would pass a law that makes it easier for players to make money to give my colleges a recruiting edge.
06-10-2021 12:49 PM
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Jerry Weaver Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Cheating in CFB
(06-10-2021 12:49 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 12:37 PM)emu steve Wrote:  Here is the quote from WaPo:

"Most state bills have passed with bipartisan support, with states jockeying to pass expansive rules that will allow them to more easily recruit athletes. But on a federal level, the proposition of bipartisan legislation is far trickier. "

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/20...l-hearing/

If i was a state with a football program that was underachieving like Nebraska, or Michigan, or California - i would pass a law that makes it easier for players to make money to give my colleges a recruiting edge.

First, Dan let me acknowledge that while I don't always agree with your posts, I respect your passion and intellect. When you pointed out that I would certainly root for all of our incoming transfers, despite my reservations of the new transfer rule relaxation you were spot on! Case in point, would be Mike Glass, Sergio Bailey, Kobey Beltram and others who while were JUCO's, were not the four year players that I aspire to have on our roster. Isaac Steibling was the backup QB to Roback in Brogan's senior year and while a great kid, he clearly was not a D1 football player and I was delighted that we had not only Glass but Iowa transfer Wiegers available for the next season.

That said, your proposition of passing state laws to make it easier to pay NCAA athletes indicates that you have been debating with "Bob Weaselsham" far too long. You will indeed "lose your edge" when you engage bloviating idiots.

Compensating athletes is not the business of taxpayer supported institutions, especially those whose defined mission is to educate and train young adults for future careers. The paying of wages for athletic services performed is best done by the private sector and in the case that would be the NBA, NHL, MLB and of course the incredibly well managed NFL. These are organizations that consist of teams owned by PRIVATE individuals who collectively bargain with their employees and establish relationships with their fellow business partners to maintain and grow their business.

The NCAA simply is not capable of doing the same. Mark Emmert, Miles Brand and such who have led the NCAA have spent their life running college institutions, Roger Goodell, Jerry Jones, Mark Cuban, George Steinbrenner they are not.
06-11-2021 06:36 PM
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dansplaining Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Cheating in CFB
(06-11-2021 06:36 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 12:49 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 12:37 PM)emu steve Wrote:  Here is the quote from WaPo:

"Most state bills have passed with bipartisan support, with states jockeying to pass expansive rules that will allow them to more easily recruit athletes. But on a federal level, the proposition of bipartisan legislation is far trickier. "

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/20...l-hearing/

If i was a state with a football program that was underachieving like Nebraska, or Michigan, or California - i would pass a law that makes it easier for players to make money to give my colleges a recruiting edge.

First, Dan let me acknowledge that while I don't always agree with your posts, I respect your passion and intellect. When you pointed out that I would certainly root for all of our incoming transfers, despite my reservations of the new transfer rule relaxation you were spot on! Case in point, would be Mike Glass, Sergio Bailey, Kobey Beltram and others who while were JUCO's, were not the four year players that I aspire to have on our roster. Isaac Steibling was the backup QB to Roback in Brogan's senior year and while a great kid, he clearly was not a D1 football player and I was delighted that we had not only Glass but Iowa transfer Wiegers available for the next season.

That said, your proposition of passing state laws to make it easier to pay NCAA athletes indicates that you have been debating with "Bob Weaselsham" far too long. You will indeed "lose your edge" when you engage bloviating idiots.

Compensating athletes is not the business of taxpayer supported institutions, especially those whose defined mission is to educate and train young adults for future careers. The paying of wages for athletic services performed is best done by the private sector and in the case that would be the NBA, NHL, MLB and of course the incredibly well managed NFL. These are organizations that consist of teams owned by PRIVATE individuals who collectively bargain with their employees and establish relationships with their fellow business partners to maintain and grow their business.

The NCAA simply is not capable of doing the same. Mark Emmert, Miles Brand and such who have led the NCAA have spent their life running college institutions, Roger Goodell, Jerry Jones, Mark Cuban, George Steinbrenner they are not.

Hey JW. Thank you for the kind words. I may have been inarticulate with my point regarding states' involvement in this issue. I'm not saying (at this point) that states should be stepping in to pay players BUT states are already drafting and passing laws setting up a regulatory frame work for players to cash in on NIL rights.

See this article (from early 2020(:
https://www.axios.com/student-athlete-co...75483.html

Even Michigan was able to find bi-partisan support for these sorts of bills:
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/m...928648001/

As for your point that teams are owned by individuals whereas colleges are public employers and thus less apt to recognize organized labor - that argument may not hold as much water as you think. My wife is a teacher - a public employee for a municipality in the state of Michigan and she's union. Cops are union. Firefighters are union. The fact that there inst a private owner of the management structure doesn't free colleges from being the target of collective bargaining. Shoot i was involved in some union drives at EMU about a decade ago for adjuncts. Most of the University employees are union already.
06-14-2021 06:16 AM
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cidbearit Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Cheating in CFB
(06-14-2021 06:16 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(06-11-2021 06:36 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 12:49 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 12:37 PM)emu steve Wrote:  Here is the quote from WaPo:

"Most state bills have passed with bipartisan support, with states jockeying to pass expansive rules that will allow them to more easily recruit athletes. But on a federal level, the proposition of bipartisan legislation is far trickier. "

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/20...l-hearing/

If i was a state with a football program that was underachieving like Nebraska, or Michigan, or California - i would pass a law that makes it easier for players to make money to give my colleges a recruiting edge.

First, Dan let me acknowledge that while I don't always agree with your posts, I respect your passion and intellect. When you pointed out that I would certainly root for all of our incoming transfers, despite my reservations of the new transfer rule relaxation you were spot on! Case in point, would be Mike Glass, Sergio Bailey, Kobey Beltram and others who while were JUCO's, were not the four year players that I aspire to have on our roster. Isaac Steibling was the backup QB to Roback in Brogan's senior year and while a great kid, he clearly was not a D1 football player and I was delighted that we had not only Glass but Iowa transfer Wiegers available for the next season.

That said, your proposition of passing state laws to make it easier to pay NCAA athletes indicates that you have been debating with "Bob Weaselsham" far too long. You will indeed "lose your edge" when you engage bloviating idiots.

Compensating athletes is not the business of taxpayer supported institutions, especially those whose defined mission is to educate and train young adults for future careers. The paying of wages for athletic services performed is best done by the private sector and in the case that would be the NBA, NHL, MLB and of course the incredibly well managed NFL. These are organizations that consist of teams owned by PRIVATE individuals who collectively bargain with their employees and establish relationships with their fellow business partners to maintain and grow their business.

The NCAA simply is not capable of doing the same. Mark Emmert, Miles Brand and such who have led the NCAA have spent their life running college institutions, Roger Goodell, Jerry Jones, Mark Cuban, George Steinbrenner they are not.

Hey JW. Thank you for the kind words. I may have been inarticulate with my point regarding states' involvement in this issue. I'm not saying (at this point) that states should be stepping in to pay players BUT states are already drafting and passing laws setting up a regulatory frame work for players to cash in on NIL rights.

See this article (from early 2020(:
https://www.axios.com/student-athlete-co...75483.html

Even Michigan was able to find bi-partisan support for these sorts of bills:
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/m...928648001/

As for your point that teams are owned by individuals whereas colleges are public employers and thus less apt to recognize organized labor - that argument may not hold as much water as you think. My wife is a teacher - a public employee for a municipality in the state of Michigan and she's union. Cops are union. Firefighters are union. The fact that there inst a private owner of the management structure doesn't free colleges from being the target of collective bargaining. Shoot i was involved in some union drives at EMU about a decade ago for adjuncts. Most of the University employees are union already.

When I worked in the Development Office at EMU during the mid-90's, we were part of the UAW. Only time in 30+ years working in the development field that I was part of a union.
06-14-2021 07:01 AM
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dansplaining Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Cheating in CFB
(06-14-2021 07:01 AM)cidbearit Wrote:  
(06-14-2021 06:16 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(06-11-2021 06:36 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 12:49 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 12:37 PM)emu steve Wrote:  Here is the quote from WaPo:

"Most state bills have passed with bipartisan support, with states jockeying to pass expansive rules that will allow them to more easily recruit athletes. But on a federal level, the proposition of bipartisan legislation is far trickier. "

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/20...l-hearing/

If i was a state with a football program that was underachieving like Nebraska, or Michigan, or California - i would pass a law that makes it easier for players to make money to give my colleges a recruiting edge.

First, Dan let me acknowledge that while I don't always agree with your posts, I respect your passion and intellect. When you pointed out that I would certainly root for all of our incoming transfers, despite my reservations of the new transfer rule relaxation you were spot on! Case in point, would be Mike Glass, Sergio Bailey, Kobey Beltram and others who while were JUCO's, were not the four year players that I aspire to have on our roster. Isaac Steibling was the backup QB to Roback in Brogan's senior year and while a great kid, he clearly was not a D1 football player and I was delighted that we had not only Glass but Iowa transfer Wiegers available for the next season.

That said, your proposition of passing state laws to make it easier to pay NCAA athletes indicates that you have been debating with "Bob Weaselsham" far too long. You will indeed "lose your edge" when you engage bloviating idiots.

Compensating athletes is not the business of taxpayer supported institutions, especially those whose defined mission is to educate and train young adults for future careers. The paying of wages for athletic services performed is best done by the private sector and in the case that would be the NBA, NHL, MLB and of course the incredibly well managed NFL. These are organizations that consist of teams owned by PRIVATE individuals who collectively bargain with their employees and establish relationships with their fellow business partners to maintain and grow their business.

The NCAA simply is not capable of doing the same. Mark Emmert, Miles Brand and such who have led the NCAA have spent their life running college institutions, Roger Goodell, Jerry Jones, Mark Cuban, George Steinbrenner they are not.

Hey JW. Thank you for the kind words. I may have been inarticulate with my point regarding states' involvement in this issue. I'm not saying (at this point) that states should be stepping in to pay players BUT states are already drafting and passing laws setting up a regulatory frame work for players to cash in on NIL rights.

See this article (from early 2020(:
https://www.axios.com/student-athlete-co...75483.html

Even Michigan was able to find bi-partisan support for these sorts of bills:
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/m...928648001/

As for your point that teams are owned by individuals whereas colleges are public employers and thus less apt to recognize organized labor - that argument may not hold as much water as you think. My wife is a teacher - a public employee for a municipality in the state of Michigan and she's union. Cops are union. Firefighters are union. The fact that there inst a private owner of the management structure doesn't free colleges from being the target of collective bargaining. Shoot i was involved in some union drives at EMU about a decade ago for adjuncts. Most of the University employees are union already.

When I worked in the Development Office at EMU during the mid-90's, we were part of the UAW. Only time in 30+ years working in the development field that I was part of a union.

Yeah I mean ultimately states passing these laws enabling players to utilize their NIL rights isnt any different than any other state passing laws to encourage business - whether these are right to work laws or tax laws to entice business relocation etc.

If you were a recruit - where would you rather go to - a state like California or Michigan who will enable to you to cash in or a state like Georgia where they passed a law capping the amount a player can make from these sorts of endorsements? Now - if UCLA has a better recruiting class you better believe that law would be repealed by dinner time - but you get my point.
06-14-2021 07:25 AM
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emu steve Online
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Post: #69
RE: Cheating in CFB
(06-14-2021 07:25 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(06-14-2021 07:01 AM)cidbearit Wrote:  
(06-14-2021 06:16 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(06-11-2021 06:36 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 12:49 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  If i was a state with a football program that was underachieving like Nebraska, or Michigan, or California - i would pass a law that makes it easier for players to make money to give my colleges a recruiting edge.

First, Dan let me acknowledge that while I don't always agree with your posts, I respect your passion and intellect. When you pointed out that I would certainly root for all of our incoming transfers, despite my reservations of the new transfer rule relaxation you were spot on! Case in point, would be Mike Glass, Sergio Bailey, Kobey Beltram and others who while were JUCO's, were not the four year players that I aspire to have on our roster. Isaac Steibling was the backup QB to Roback in Brogan's senior year and while a great kid, he clearly was not a D1 football player and I was delighted that we had not only Glass but Iowa transfer Wiegers available for the next season.

That said, your proposition of passing state laws to make it easier to pay NCAA athletes indicates that you have been debating with "Bob Weaselsham" far too long. You will indeed "lose your edge" when you engage bloviating idiots.

Compensating athletes is not the business of taxpayer supported institutions, especially those whose defined mission is to educate and train young adults for future careers. The paying of wages for athletic services performed is best done by the private sector and in the case that would be the NBA, NHL, MLB and of course the incredibly well managed NFL. These are organizations that consist of teams owned by PRIVATE individuals who collectively bargain with their employees and establish relationships with their fellow business partners to maintain and grow their business.

The NCAA simply is not capable of doing the same. Mark Emmert, Miles Brand and such who have led the NCAA have spent their life running college institutions, Roger Goodell, Jerry Jones, Mark Cuban, George Steinbrenner they are not.

Hey JW. Thank you for the kind words. I may have been inarticulate with my point regarding states' involvement in this issue. I'm not saying (at this point) that states should be stepping in to pay players BUT states are already drafting and passing laws setting up a regulatory frame work for players to cash in on NIL rights.

See this article (from early 2020(:
https://www.axios.com/student-athlete-co...75483.html

Even Michigan was able to find bi-partisan support for these sorts of bills:
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/m...928648001/

As for your point that teams are owned by individuals whereas colleges are public employers and thus less apt to recognize organized labor - that argument may not hold as much water as you think. My wife is a teacher - a public employee for a municipality in the state of Michigan and she's union. Cops are union. Firefighters are union. The fact that there inst a private owner of the management structure doesn't free colleges from being the target of collective bargaining. Shoot i was involved in some union drives at EMU about a decade ago for adjuncts. Most of the University employees are union already.

When I worked in the Development Office at EMU during the mid-90's, we were part of the UAW. Only time in 30+ years working in the development field that I was part of a union.

Yeah I mean ultimately states passing these laws enabling players to utilize their NIL rights isnt any different than any other state passing laws to encourage business - whether these are right to work laws or tax laws to entice business relocation etc.

If you were a recruit - where would you rather go to - a state like California or Michigan who will enable to you to cash in or a state like Georgia where they passed a law capping the amount a player can make from these sorts of endorsements? Now - if UCLA has a better recruiting class you better believe that law would be repealed by dinner time - but you get my point.

For all of the discussion of NIL, I really have no idea how it works. I doubt anyone here knows other than NIL and compensation (it is like saying I understand something because I understand what the words mean in English).

I understand the terms 'supply and demand' but don't claim to be an economist.
06-14-2021 08:33 AM
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dansplaining Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Cheating in CFB
(06-14-2021 08:33 AM)emu steve Wrote:  
(06-14-2021 07:25 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(06-14-2021 07:01 AM)cidbearit Wrote:  
(06-14-2021 06:16 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(06-11-2021 06:36 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  First, Dan let me acknowledge that while I don't always agree with your posts, I respect your passion and intellect. When you pointed out that I would certainly root for all of our incoming transfers, despite my reservations of the new transfer rule relaxation you were spot on! Case in point, would be Mike Glass, Sergio Bailey, Kobey Beltram and others who while were JUCO's, were not the four year players that I aspire to have on our roster. Isaac Steibling was the backup QB to Roback in Brogan's senior year and while a great kid, he clearly was not a D1 football player and I was delighted that we had not only Glass but Iowa transfer Wiegers available for the next season.

That said, your proposition of passing state laws to make it easier to pay NCAA athletes indicates that you have been debating with "Bob Weaselsham" far too long. You will indeed "lose your edge" when you engage bloviating idiots.

Compensating athletes is not the business of taxpayer supported institutions, especially those whose defined mission is to educate and train young adults for future careers. The paying of wages for athletic services performed is best done by the private sector and in the case that would be the NBA, NHL, MLB and of course the incredibly well managed NFL. These are organizations that consist of teams owned by PRIVATE individuals who collectively bargain with their employees and establish relationships with their fellow business partners to maintain and grow their business.

The NCAA simply is not capable of doing the same. Mark Emmert, Miles Brand and such who have led the NCAA have spent their life running college institutions, Roger Goodell, Jerry Jones, Mark Cuban, George Steinbrenner they are not.

Hey JW. Thank you for the kind words. I may have been inarticulate with my point regarding states' involvement in this issue. I'm not saying (at this point) that states should be stepping in to pay players BUT states are already drafting and passing laws setting up a regulatory frame work for players to cash in on NIL rights.

See this article (from early 2020(:
https://www.axios.com/student-athlete-co...75483.html

Even Michigan was able to find bi-partisan support for these sorts of bills:
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/m...928648001/

As for your point that teams are owned by individuals whereas colleges are public employers and thus less apt to recognize organized labor - that argument may not hold as much water as you think. My wife is a teacher - a public employee for a municipality in the state of Michigan and she's union. Cops are union. Firefighters are union. The fact that there inst a private owner of the management structure doesn't free colleges from being the target of collective bargaining. Shoot i was involved in some union drives at EMU about a decade ago for adjuncts. Most of the University employees are union already.

When I worked in the Development Office at EMU during the mid-90's, we were part of the UAW. Only time in 30+ years working in the development field that I was part of a union.

Yeah I mean ultimately states passing these laws enabling players to utilize their NIL rights isnt any different than any other state passing laws to encourage business - whether these are right to work laws or tax laws to entice business relocation etc.

If you were a recruit - where would you rather go to - a state like California or Michigan who will enable to you to cash in or a state like Georgia where they passed a law capping the amount a player can make from these sorts of endorsements? Now - if UCLA has a better recruiting class you better believe that law would be repealed by dinner time - but you get my point.

For all of the discussion of NIL, I really have no idea how it works. I doubt anyone here knows other than NIL and compensation (it is like saying I understand something because I understand what the words mean in English).

I understand the terms 'supply and demand' but don't claim to be an economist.

California passed the first law about this and most states are copying it pretty closely (michigan included). SB nation has a GREAT explainer about it here:
https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketb...eness-ncaa

That article is from 2019. A more recent one about a federal law introduced by Cory Booker can be found here:
https://www.sbnation.com/22196062/colleg...ory-booker

It boils down to the reality that many college athletes are celebrities who have restrictions to their earning power placed on them arbitrarily by the NCAA. Giving players NIL rights would allow them or profit off their name and likeness - such as accepting endorsement deals or signing and selling autographs. This is also called 'The Olympic Model' in some usages as this is the same rights that Olympic athletes get. Its how they can make money selling Wheaties or Milk.
06-14-2021 09:00 AM
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emu steve Online
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RE: Cheating in CFB
(06-14-2021 09:00 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(06-14-2021 08:33 AM)emu steve Wrote:  
(06-14-2021 07:25 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(06-14-2021 07:01 AM)cidbearit Wrote:  
(06-14-2021 06:16 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  Hey JW. Thank you for the kind words. I may have been inarticulate with my point regarding states' involvement in this issue. I'm not saying (at this point) that states should be stepping in to pay players BUT states are already drafting and passing laws setting up a regulatory frame work for players to cash in on NIL rights.

See this article (from early 2020(:
https://www.axios.com/student-athlete-co...75483.html

Even Michigan was able to find bi-partisan support for these sorts of bills:
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/m...928648001/

As for your point that teams are owned by individuals whereas colleges are public employers and thus less apt to recognize organized labor - that argument may not hold as much water as you think. My wife is a teacher - a public employee for a municipality in the state of Michigan and she's union. Cops are union. Firefighters are union. The fact that there inst a private owner of the management structure doesn't free colleges from being the target of collective bargaining. Shoot i was involved in some union drives at EMU about a decade ago for adjuncts. Most of the University employees are union already.

When I worked in the Development Office at EMU during the mid-90's, we were part of the UAW. Only time in 30+ years working in the development field that I was part of a union.

Yeah I mean ultimately states passing these laws enabling players to utilize their NIL rights isnt any different than any other state passing laws to encourage business - whether these are right to work laws or tax laws to entice business relocation etc.

If you were a recruit - where would you rather go to - a state like California or Michigan who will enable to you to cash in or a state like Georgia where they passed a law capping the amount a player can make from these sorts of endorsements? Now - if UCLA has a better recruiting class you better believe that law would be repealed by dinner time - but you get my point.

For all of the discussion of NIL, I really have no idea how it works. I doubt anyone here knows other than NIL and compensation (it is like saying I understand something because I understand what the words mean in English).

I understand the terms 'supply and demand' but don't claim to be an economist.

California passed the first law about this and most states are copying it pretty closely (michigan included). SB nation has a GREAT explainer about it here:
https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketb...eness-ncaa

That article is from 2019. A more recent one about a federal law introduced by Cory Booker can be found here:
https://www.sbnation.com/22196062/colleg...ory-booker

It boils down to the reality that many college athletes are celebrities who have restrictions to their earning power placed on them arbitrarily by the NCAA. Giving players NIL rights would allow them or profit off their name and likeness - such as accepting endorsement deals or signing and selling autographs. This is also called 'The Olympic Model' in some usages as this is the same rights that Olympic athletes get. Its how they can make money selling Wheaties or Milk.

"Under the current NCAA rules, student-athletes must maintain amateur athletic status. This means that college athletes cannot receive payment for playing a sport, funding to offset training expenses, accept prize money based on performance, be represented or marketed by a sports agent or professional, promote or endorse commercial products and much more. "

Maybe Jerry and I can combine to offer any EMU player $1,000 who makes the winning basket in a win over UofM or MSU. (are you in Jerry? 03-lmfao)

Maybe $500 for scoring the winning touchdown vs a B1G team in the QL bowl.

P.S. as a man who understands the concept of risk I'd have to go to D.C. or go onlne to 'cover my a*s' by making an insurance bet (say bet EMU money line to beat UofM or MSU in hoops or win the QL bowl).

Is this what we want??????? Got to be careful there isn't rampant abuse...
06-14-2021 10:51 AM
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emu steve Online
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Post: #72
RE: Cheating in CFB
P.S. How does the NCAA or individual schools profit off the NIL?

I haven't seen an EMU QB's picture on a box of Wheaties or a photograph of same QB driving a car for a local dealership.

And putting a photograph of a player on a media guide or program hardly is profiting off of that player. It is incidental usage of an image.
(This post was last modified: 06-14-2021 10:56 AM by emu steve.)
06-14-2021 10:55 AM
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SMUstang Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Cheating in CFB
Why is paying college players OK now but it was considered cheating in the 1980's?
06-14-2021 11:04 AM
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Boca Rocket Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Cheating in CFB
Obviously former college fb player, Cory Booker(Stanford, Oxford, Yale Law) was a victim of the oppressive NCAA system.
06-14-2021 11:36 AM
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dansplaining Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Cheating in CFB
(06-14-2021 10:55 AM)emu steve Wrote:  P.S. How does the NCAA or individual schools profit off the NIL?

I haven't seen an EMU QB's picture on a box of Wheaties or a photograph of same QB driving a car for a local dealership.

And putting a photograph of a player on a media guide or program hardly is profiting off of that player. It is incidental usage of an image.

(06-14-2021 11:04 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  Why is paying college players OK now but it was considered cheating in the 1980's?

(06-14-2021 11:36 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  Obviously former college fb player, Cory Booker(Stanford, Oxford, Yale Law) was a victim of the oppressive NCAA system.

I'd like to answer these three posts:

steve - Schools like eastern don't really make money off Likeness rights - but bigger schools like UM and MSU sell jerseys with a players number on it. sure it may not say the players name but when he was in school you KNEW what number Denard Robinson was. You're 100% right that media guides are incidental usage - but NCAA video games arent. That was the point of the whole Bannon suit a few years ago.

2% of players go pro. All of them should be allowed to maximize their earning potential while in school just like any other student.

SMU - LOL love it. Pony Excess is one of my favorite 30 for 30s.

Boca - Really showing off that Toledo education huh? If your desperate to see what a former player says - howabout Jay Bilas. Former Duke Basketball player and member of the bar association: https://judicature.duke.edu/articles/to-...ot-to-pay/
06-14-2021 12:04 PM
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SMUstang Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Cheating in CFB
(06-14-2021 12:04 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(06-14-2021 10:55 AM)emu steve Wrote:  P.S. How does the NCAA or individual schools profit off the NIL?

I haven't seen an EMU QB's picture on a box of Wheaties or a photograph of same QB driving a car for a local dealership.

And putting a photograph of a player on a media guide or program hardly is profiting off of that player. It is incidental usage of an image.

(06-14-2021 11:04 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  Why is paying college players OK now but it was considered cheating in the 1980's?

(06-14-2021 11:36 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  Obviously former college fb player, Cory Booker(Stanford, Oxford, Yale Law) was a victim of the oppressive NCAA system.

I'd like to answer these three posts:

steve - Schools like eastern don't really make money off Likeness rights - but bigger schools like UM and MSU sell jerseys with a players number on it. sure it may not say the players name but when he was in school you KNEW what number Denard Robinson was. You're 100% right that media guides are incidental usage - but NCAA video games arent. That was the point of the whole Bannon suit a few years ago.

2% of players go pro. All of them should be allowed to maximize their earning potential while in school just like any other student.

SMU - LOL love it. Pony Excess is one of my favorite 30 for 30s.

Boca - Really showing off that Toledo education huh? If your desperate to see what a former player says - howabout Jay Bilas. Former Duke Basketball player and member of the bar association: https://judicature.duke.edu/articles/to-...ot-to-pay/

Did you get the part where they said everyone except Rice was doing it? But only SMU got punished. A&M bought Dickerson the Trans Am he was driving.
06-14-2021 02:20 PM
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dansplaining Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Cheating in CFB
(06-14-2021 02:20 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  
(06-14-2021 12:04 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(06-14-2021 10:55 AM)emu steve Wrote:  P.S. How does the NCAA or individual schools profit off the NIL?

I haven't seen an EMU QB's picture on a box of Wheaties or a photograph of same QB driving a car for a local dealership.

And putting a photograph of a player on a media guide or program hardly is profiting off of that player. It is incidental usage of an image.

(06-14-2021 11:04 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  Why is paying college players OK now but it was considered cheating in the 1980's?

(06-14-2021 11:36 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  Obviously former college fb player, Cory Booker(Stanford, Oxford, Yale Law) was a victim of the oppressive NCAA system.

I'd like to answer these three posts:

steve - Schools like eastern don't really make money off Likeness rights - but bigger schools like UM and MSU sell jerseys with a players number on it. sure it may not say the players name but when he was in school you KNEW what number Denard Robinson was. You're 100% right that media guides are incidental usage - but NCAA video games arent. That was the point of the whole Bannon suit a few years ago.

2% of players go pro. All of them should be allowed to maximize their earning potential while in school just like any other student.

SMU - LOL love it. Pony Excess is one of my favorite 30 for 30s.

Boca - Really showing off that Toledo education huh? If your desperate to see what a former player says - howabout Jay Bilas. Former Duke Basketball player and member of the bar association: https://judicature.duke.edu/articles/to-...ot-to-pay/

Did you get the part where they said everyone except Rice was doing it? But only SMU got punished. A&M bought Dickerson the Trans Am he was driving.

I love the line that Dickerson took a paycut in the NFL. LOVE it.

According to legend King Arthur never died. He's merely asleep deep in Avalon waiting to be awaken when England needs him to most. I like to imagine all the old SMU bag men are asleep in a mansion in Highland Park TX waiting to be allowed to pay players again.
06-14-2021 02:25 PM
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SMUstang Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Cheating in CFB
(06-14-2021 02:25 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(06-14-2021 02:20 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  
(06-14-2021 12:04 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(06-14-2021 10:55 AM)emu steve Wrote:  P.S. How does the NCAA or individual schools profit off the NIL?

I haven't seen an EMU QB's picture on a box of Wheaties or a photograph of same QB driving a car for a local dealership.

And putting a photograph of a player on a media guide or program hardly is profiting off of that player. It is incidental usage of an image.

(06-14-2021 11:04 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  Why is paying college players OK now but it was considered cheating in the 1980's?

(06-14-2021 11:36 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  Obviously former college fb player, Cory Booker(Stanford, Oxford, Yale Law) was a victim of the oppressive NCAA system.

I'd like to answer these three posts:

steve - Schools like eastern don't really make money off Likeness rights - but bigger schools like UM and MSU sell jerseys with a players number on it. sure it may not say the players name but when he was in school you KNEW what number Denard Robinson was. You're 100% right that media guides are incidental usage - but NCAA video games arent. That was the point of the whole Bannon suit a few years ago.

2% of players go pro. All of them should be allowed to maximize their earning potential while in school just like any other student.

SMU - LOL love it. Pony Excess is one of my favorite 30 for 30s.

Boca - Really showing off that Toledo education huh? If your desperate to see what a former player says - howabout Jay Bilas. Former Duke Basketball player and member of the bar association: https://judicature.duke.edu/articles/to-...ot-to-pay/

Did you get the part where they said everyone except Rice was doing it? But only SMU got punished. A&M bought Dickerson the Trans Am he was driving.

I love the line that Dickerson took a paycut in the NFL. LOVE it.

According to legend King Arthur never died. He's merely asleep deep in Avalon waiting to be awaken when England needs him to most. I like to imagine all the old SMU bag men are asleep in a mansion in Highland Park TX waiting to be allowed to pay players again.

No doubt the SMU boosters were wrong. But should the school have suffered millions of dollars lost and 30-40 years to recover? To say nothing about the embarrassment.
06-14-2021 02:36 PM
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dansplaining Offline
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Post: #79
RE: Cheating in CFB
(06-14-2021 02:36 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  
(06-14-2021 02:25 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(06-14-2021 02:20 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  
(06-14-2021 12:04 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(06-14-2021 10:55 AM)emu steve Wrote:  P.S. How does the NCAA or individual schools profit off the NIL?

I haven't seen an EMU QB's picture on a box of Wheaties or a photograph of same QB driving a car for a local dealership.

And putting a photograph of a player on a media guide or program hardly is profiting off of that player. It is incidental usage of an image.

(06-14-2021 11:04 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  Why is paying college players OK now but it was considered cheating in the 1980's?

(06-14-2021 11:36 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  Obviously former college fb player, Cory Booker(Stanford, Oxford, Yale Law) was a victim of the oppressive NCAA system.

I'd like to answer these three posts:

steve - Schools like eastern don't really make money off Likeness rights - but bigger schools like UM and MSU sell jerseys with a players number on it. sure it may not say the players name but when he was in school you KNEW what number Denard Robinson was. You're 100% right that media guides are incidental usage - but NCAA video games arent. That was the point of the whole Bannon suit a few years ago.

2% of players go pro. All of them should be allowed to maximize their earning potential while in school just like any other student.

SMU - LOL love it. Pony Excess is one of my favorite 30 for 30s.

Boca - Really showing off that Toledo education huh? If your desperate to see what a former player says - howabout Jay Bilas. Former Duke Basketball player and member of the bar association: https://judicature.duke.edu/articles/to-...ot-to-pay/

Did you get the part where they said everyone except Rice was doing it? But only SMU got punished. A&M bought Dickerson the Trans Am he was driving.

I love the line that Dickerson took a paycut in the NFL. LOVE it.

According to legend King Arthur never died. He's merely asleep deep in Avalon waiting to be awaken when England needs him to most. I like to imagine all the old SMU bag men are asleep in a mansion in Highland Park TX waiting to be allowed to pay players again.

No doubt the SMU boosters were wrong. But should the school have suffered millions of dollars lost and 30-40 years to recover? To say nothing about the embarrassment.

And why give SMU the death penalty when Baylor is still allowed to have a football team. or Penn State. paying players is a victim-less crime.
06-14-2021 03:21 PM
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