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"Money Monday"
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dansplaining Offline
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Post: #121
RE: "Money Monday"
(07-04-2021 04:25 PM)emu steve Wrote:  
(07-01-2021 12:58 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(07-01-2021 12:46 PM)emu steve Wrote:  
(07-01-2021 12:01 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(07-01-2021 11:45 AM)emu steve Wrote:  One question I have is: NIL. I've never saw Boykins name on an EMU jersey, Batch on an EMU jersey, etc. I haven't seen a college branded item e.g. a Trevor Lawrence branded FB, etc. where Clemson commercially exploited his image. And just because his image is in the media guide, game program doesn't mean he is being commercially exploited.

If a player is in advertisements for a team and isn't compensated additionally for the use of his or hers image - that's being commercially exploited. Pro teams have agreements through the player's association to compensate players for their NIL. Now you can argue that as terms of the scholarship the player signs over those rights to the school - which fine whatever. Players should still be able to independently make money of their NIL rights.

Legally it doesn't stand.

The advertisement is for Clemson football. Football is a team sport. Even T&F is a 'team sport' even though it is scored individually.

Clemson FB could put up a manakin but that would be dumb. And on the cover of the program can be any player and typically a different player game to game.

It absolutely legally stands. The fact that football and track and basketball and rowing and all of these are 'Team Sports' doesn't negate the fact that the team is marketing specific individuals based on their NIL.

Teams can ABSOLUTELY market without the usage of player directly - maybe use the mascot for example - but when you use a specific person in advertising that person should either have a.) signed those rights away or b.) receive compensation.

This example doesnt have any relevance for the situation today because schools are still barred from paying players. Players can merely make money from private and independent endorsements and sponsorship.

Okay, I now get it.

EMU uses banners in Ypsi. Those banners have individual athletes likeness on them. HOWEVER, there is NO effort to monetize those likenesses.

TO ME, the difference is whether the images are used to PUBLICIZE the team OR to monetize them (e.g., put names on the backs of jerseys).

I'm not aware of EMU using likeness to monetize such as autographed footballs, baseballs, etc. Ditto for jerseys, etc.

I have a couple autographed footballs but they were by the FB HC and monies went to charity. (this was done by the coaches association).

BTW, I would GUESS players sign their rights to incidental, not monetary, usage of their likeness. My mug was all over the newspapers 9 years ago (AP did the photo and I was on the front page of dozens of newspapers). I gave them my name and city of residence which I assume was in implicit or explicit agreement to use my likeness.

Seen it in Catholic Churches who live stream Masses. It is a posted notice only.

Again - this is all meaningless to the situation at hand because the rule changes that went into effect allow players to profit independent of the university. schools cannot pay players currently.
(This post was last modified: 07-04-2021 07:24 PM by dansplaining.)
07-04-2021 07:23 PM
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Jerry Weaver Offline
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Post: #122
RE: "Money Monday"
(07-04-2021 07:23 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(07-04-2021 04:25 PM)emu steve Wrote:  
(07-01-2021 12:58 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(07-01-2021 12:46 PM)emu steve Wrote:  
(07-01-2021 12:01 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  If a player is in advertisements for a team and isn't compensated additionally for the use of his or hers image - that's being commercially exploited. Pro teams have agreements through the player's association to compensate players for their NIL. Now you can argue that as terms of the scholarship the player signs over those rights to the school - which fine whatever. Players should still be able to independently make money of their NIL rights.

Legally it doesn't stand.

The advertisement is for Clemson football. Football is a team sport. Even T&F is a 'team sport' even though it is scored individually.

Clemson FB could put up a manakin but that would be dumb. And on the cover of the program can be any player and typically a different player game to game.

It absolutely legally stands. The fact that football and track and basketball and rowing and all of these are 'Team Sports' doesn't negate the fact that the team is marketing specific individuals based on their NIL.

Teams can ABSOLUTELY market without the usage of player directly - maybe use the mascot for example - but when you use a specific person in advertising that person should either have a.) signed those rights away or b.) receive compensation.

This example doesnt have any relevance for the situation today because schools are still barred from paying players. Players can merely make money from private and independent endorsements and sponsorship.

Okay, I now get it.

EMU uses banners in Ypsi. Those banners have individual athletes likeness on them. HOWEVER, there is NO effort to monetize those likenesses.

TO ME, the difference is whether the images are used to PUBLICIZE the team OR to monetize them (e.g., put names on the backs of jerseys).

I'm not aware of EMU using likeness to monetize such as autographed footballs, baseballs, etc. Ditto for jerseys, etc.

I have a couple autographed footballs but they were by the FB HC and monies went to charity. (this was done by the coaches association).

BTW, I would GUESS players sign their rights to incidental, not monetary, usage of their likeness. My mug was all over the newspapers 9 years ago (AP did the photo and I was on the front page of dozens of newspapers). I gave them my name and city of residence which I assume was in implicit or explicit agreement to use my likeness.

Seen it in Catholic Churches who live stream Masses. It is a posted notice only.

Again - this is all meaningless to the situation at hand because the rule changes that went into effect allow players to profit independent of the university. schools cannot pay players currently.

Guys this is a freaking circus!

A competent NCAA commissioner would have seen this storm coming as California passed their own NIL law long ago. He would have marshalled the support of the P5 conference Presidents and went to congress to explain why certain anti-trust exemptions were needed as most NCAA programs DO NOT generate profits. Instead the NCAA is thrust immediately into a free-for-all of chaos, where we simply are forced to accept the results of once the "smoke clears".

This has become a clusterf--k, thank you Mark Emmert.
07-05-2021 05:27 PM
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dansplaining Offline
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Post: #123
RE: "Money Monday"
(07-05-2021 05:27 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  
(07-04-2021 07:23 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(07-04-2021 04:25 PM)emu steve Wrote:  
(07-01-2021 12:58 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(07-01-2021 12:46 PM)emu steve Wrote:  Legally it doesn't stand.

The advertisement is for Clemson football. Football is a team sport. Even T&F is a 'team sport' even though it is scored individually.

Clemson FB could put up a manakin but that would be dumb. And on the cover of the program can be any player and typically a different player game to game.

It absolutely legally stands. The fact that football and track and basketball and rowing and all of these are 'Team Sports' doesn't negate the fact that the team is marketing specific individuals based on their NIL.

Teams can ABSOLUTELY market without the usage of player directly - maybe use the mascot for example - but when you use a specific person in advertising that person should either have a.) signed those rights away or b.) receive compensation.

This example doesnt have any relevance for the situation today because schools are still barred from paying players. Players can merely make money from private and independent endorsements and sponsorship.

Okay, I now get it.

EMU uses banners in Ypsi. Those banners have individual athletes likeness on them. HOWEVER, there is NO effort to monetize those likenesses.

TO ME, the difference is whether the images are used to PUBLICIZE the team OR to monetize them (e.g., put names on the backs of jerseys).

I'm not aware of EMU using likeness to monetize such as autographed footballs, baseballs, etc. Ditto for jerseys, etc.

I have a couple autographed footballs but they were by the FB HC and monies went to charity. (this was done by the coaches association).

BTW, I would GUESS players sign their rights to incidental, not monetary, usage of their likeness. My mug was all over the newspapers 9 years ago (AP did the photo and I was on the front page of dozens of newspapers). I gave them my name and city of residence which I assume was in implicit or explicit agreement to use my likeness.

Seen it in Catholic Churches who live stream Masses. It is a posted notice only.

Again - this is all meaningless to the situation at hand because the rule changes that went into effect allow players to profit independent of the university. schools cannot pay players currently.

Guys this is a freaking circus!

A competent NCAA commissioner would have seen this storm coming as California passed their own NIL law long ago. He would have marshalled the support of the P5 conference Presidents and went to congress to explain why certain anti-trust exemptions were needed as most NCAA programs DO NOT generate profits. Instead the NCAA is thrust immediately into a free-for-all of chaos, where we simply are forced to accept the results of once the "smoke clears".

This has become a clusterf--k, thank you Mark Emmert.

The NCAA is good for the following things:
Cashing Checks

Welp that's it.
07-06-2021 05:56 AM
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emu steve Offline
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Post: #124
RE: "Money Monday"
(07-05-2021 05:27 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  
(07-04-2021 07:23 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(07-04-2021 04:25 PM)emu steve Wrote:  
(07-01-2021 12:58 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(07-01-2021 12:46 PM)emu steve Wrote:  Legally it doesn't stand.

The advertisement is for Clemson football. Football is a team sport. Even T&F is a 'team sport' even though it is scored individually.

Clemson FB could put up a manakin but that would be dumb. And on the cover of the program can be any player and typically a different player game to game.

It absolutely legally stands. The fact that football and track and basketball and rowing and all of these are 'Team Sports' doesn't negate the fact that the team is marketing specific individuals based on their NIL.

Teams can ABSOLUTELY market without the usage of player directly - maybe use the mascot for example - but when you use a specific person in advertising that person should either have a.) signed those rights away or b.) receive compensation.

This example doesnt have any relevance for the situation today because schools are still barred from paying players. Players can merely make money from private and independent endorsements and sponsorship.

Okay, I now get it.

EMU uses banners in Ypsi. Those banners have individual athletes likeness on them. HOWEVER, there is NO effort to monetize those likenesses.

TO ME, the difference is whether the images are used to PUBLICIZE the team OR to monetize them (e.g., put names on the backs of jerseys).

I'm not aware of EMU using likeness to monetize such as autographed footballs, baseballs, etc. Ditto for jerseys, etc.

I have a couple autographed footballs but they were by the FB HC and monies went to charity. (this was done by the coaches association).

BTW, I would GUESS players sign their rights to incidental, not monetary, usage of their likeness. My mug was all over the newspapers 9 years ago (AP did the photo and I was on the front page of dozens of newspapers). I gave them my name and city of residence which I assume was in implicit or explicit agreement to use my likeness.

Seen it in Catholic Churches who live stream Masses. It is a posted notice only.

Again - this is all meaningless to the situation at hand because the rule changes that went into effect allow players to profit independent of the university. schools cannot pay players currently.

Guys this is a freaking circus!

A competent NCAA commissioner would have seen this storm coming as California passed their own NIL law long ago. He would have marshalled the support of the P5 conference Presidents and went to congress to explain why certain anti-trust exemptions were needed as most NCAA programs DO NOT generate profits. Instead the NCAA is thrust immediately into a free-for-all of chaos, where we simply are forced to accept the results of once the "smoke clears".

This has become a clusterf--k, thank you Mark Emmert.

The NCAA is a dysfunctional organization. They did see this storm coming but had no clue how to deal with it.

As noted, this thing has landed on college sports doorstep and no one, e.g., NCAA, players, etc. seem to know what to do with it.

What I learned from THIS thread. No one seems to know what NIL really means.
I'm not a lawyer, but I DO know, one doesn't know the law because they know the English language. (Remember, you are NOT free to holler 'fire' in a theater because you have 1st amendment speech rights.).

What rights do schools have to market their school and sports?

What rights do athletes have to market their NIL?

Hutchinson could have his image on a pizza box BUT can't do so in an EMU uni.

EMU can have Hutchinson's jersey on a pizza box but not his name.

My guess: For the first year (or whatever) the LAWYERS are the big winners.
07-06-2021 06:11 AM
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dansplaining Offline
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Post: #125
RE: "Money Monday"
(07-06-2021 06:11 AM)emu steve Wrote:  
(07-05-2021 05:27 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  
(07-04-2021 07:23 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(07-04-2021 04:25 PM)emu steve Wrote:  
(07-01-2021 12:58 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  It absolutely legally stands. The fact that football and track and basketball and rowing and all of these are 'Team Sports' doesn't negate the fact that the team is marketing specific individuals based on their NIL.

Teams can ABSOLUTELY market without the usage of player directly - maybe use the mascot for example - but when you use a specific person in advertising that person should either have a.) signed those rights away or b.) receive compensation.

This example doesnt have any relevance for the situation today because schools are still barred from paying players. Players can merely make money from private and independent endorsements and sponsorship.

Okay, I now get it.

EMU uses banners in Ypsi. Those banners have individual athletes likeness on them. HOWEVER, there is NO effort to monetize those likenesses.

TO ME, the difference is whether the images are used to PUBLICIZE the team OR to monetize them (e.g., put names on the backs of jerseys).

I'm not aware of EMU using likeness to monetize such as autographed footballs, baseballs, etc. Ditto for jerseys, etc.

I have a couple autographed footballs but they were by the FB HC and monies went to charity. (this was done by the coaches association).

BTW, I would GUESS players sign their rights to incidental, not monetary, usage of their likeness. My mug was all over the newspapers 9 years ago (AP did the photo and I was on the front page of dozens of newspapers). I gave them my name and city of residence which I assume was in implicit or explicit agreement to use my likeness.

Seen it in Catholic Churches who live stream Masses. It is a posted notice only.

Again - this is all meaningless to the situation at hand because the rule changes that went into effect allow players to profit independent of the university. schools cannot pay players currently.

Guys this is a freaking circus!

A competent NCAA commissioner would have seen this storm coming as California passed their own NIL law long ago. He would have marshalled the support of the P5 conference Presidents and went to congress to explain why certain anti-trust exemptions were needed as most NCAA programs DO NOT generate profits. Instead the NCAA is thrust immediately into a free-for-all of chaos, where we simply are forced to accept the results of once the "smoke clears".

This has become a clusterf--k, thank you Mark Emmert.

The NCAA is a dysfunctional organization. They did see this storm coming but had no clue how to deal with it.

As noted, this thing has landed on college sports doorstep and no one, e.g., NCAA, players, etc. seem to know what to do with it.

What I learned from THIS thread. No one seems to know what NIL really means.
I'm not a lawyer, but I DO know, one doesn't know the law because they know the English language. (Remember, you are NOT free to holler 'fire' in a theater because you have 1st amendment speech rights.).

What rights do schools have to market their school and sports?

What rights do athletes have to market their NIL?

Hutchinson could have his image on a pizza box BUT can't do so in an EMU uni.

EMU can have Hutchinson's jersey on a pizza box but not his name.

My guess: For the first year (or whatever) the LAWYERS are the big winners.

Here's a fun explainer of NIL rights:
https://www.sbnation.com/2021/7/1/225580...-explained
07-06-2021 06:29 AM
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emu steve Offline
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Post: #126
RE: "Money Monday"
(07-06-2021 06:29 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 06:11 AM)emu steve Wrote:  
(07-05-2021 05:27 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  
(07-04-2021 07:23 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(07-04-2021 04:25 PM)emu steve Wrote:  Okay, I now get it.

EMU uses banners in Ypsi. Those banners have individual athletes likeness on them. HOWEVER, there is NO effort to monetize those likenesses.

TO ME, the difference is whether the images are used to PUBLICIZE the team OR to monetize them (e.g., put names on the backs of jerseys).

I'm not aware of EMU using likeness to monetize such as autographed footballs, baseballs, etc. Ditto for jerseys, etc.

I have a couple autographed footballs but they were by the FB HC and monies went to charity. (this was done by the coaches association).

BTW, I would GUESS players sign their rights to incidental, not monetary, usage of their likeness. My mug was all over the newspapers 9 years ago (AP did the photo and I was on the front page of dozens of newspapers). I gave them my name and city of residence which I assume was in implicit or explicit agreement to use my likeness.

Seen it in Catholic Churches who live stream Masses. It is a posted notice only.

Again - this is all meaningless to the situation at hand because the rule changes that went into effect allow players to profit independent of the university. schools cannot pay players currently.

Guys this is a freaking circus!

A competent NCAA commissioner would have seen this storm coming as California passed their own NIL law long ago. He would have marshalled the support of the P5 conference Presidents and went to congress to explain why certain anti-trust exemptions were needed as most NCAA programs DO NOT generate profits. Instead the NCAA is thrust immediately into a free-for-all of chaos, where we simply are forced to accept the results of once the "smoke clears".

This has become a clusterf--k, thank you Mark Emmert.

The NCAA is a dysfunctional organization. They did see this storm coming but had no clue how to deal with it.

As noted, this thing has landed on college sports doorstep and no one, e.g., NCAA, players, etc. seem to know what to do with it.

What I learned from THIS thread. No one seems to know what NIL really means.
I'm not a lawyer, but I DO know, one doesn't know the law because they know the English language. (Remember, you are NOT free to holler 'fire' in a theater because you have 1st amendment speech rights.).

What rights do schools have to market their school and sports?

What rights do athletes have to market their NIL?

Hutchinson could have his image on a pizza box BUT can't do so in an EMU uni.

EMU can have Hutchinson's jersey on a pizza box but not his name.

My guess: For the first year (or whatever) the LAWYERS are the big winners.

Here's a fun explainer of NIL rights:
https://www.sbnation.com/2021/7/1/225580...-explained

Two points:

1). Even though the author was an athlete and has general knowledge of what she speaks, she presumably isn't a lawyer or USPTO (Patents Trademarks Office of the U.S. government. I have a friend whose son works there). Once again, I want to read what lawyers and PTO folks, esp. sports, have to say.

Folks writing for SBNation, etc. are not lawyers, doctors, etc. and really don't have the expertise to speak about PTO issues, medical issues, etc.

One can watch cable and see a parade of legal minds, lawyers, FBI, SDNY, etc. and hear legal issues discussed by the best in the business. They are the best legal mind not journalists.

2). I'm in favor of allowing college athletes to borrow money while on athletic scholarship. COA money isn't hardly enough for most student athletes to survive. BTW, I hope athletes got stimulus this year. Correct? Let them borrow say a sum equal to $500 / month (6K for a 12 month year). The idea isn't that a CFB player shouldn't have more than $10 in his pocket. They may have significant expenses like that phone in their pocket and phone service.
(This post was last modified: 07-06-2021 08:48 AM by emu steve.)
07-06-2021 08:42 AM
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dansplaining Offline
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Post: #127
RE: "Money Monday"
(07-06-2021 08:42 AM)emu steve Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 06:29 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 06:11 AM)emu steve Wrote:  
(07-05-2021 05:27 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  
(07-04-2021 07:23 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  Again - this is all meaningless to the situation at hand because the rule changes that went into effect allow players to profit independent of the university. schools cannot pay players currently.

Guys this is a freaking circus!

A competent NCAA commissioner would have seen this storm coming as California passed their own NIL law long ago. He would have marshalled the support of the P5 conference Presidents and went to congress to explain why certain anti-trust exemptions were needed as most NCAA programs DO NOT generate profits. Instead the NCAA is thrust immediately into a free-for-all of chaos, where we simply are forced to accept the results of once the "smoke clears".

This has become a clusterf--k, thank you Mark Emmert.

The NCAA is a dysfunctional organization. They did see this storm coming but had no clue how to deal with it.

As noted, this thing has landed on college sports doorstep and no one, e.g., NCAA, players, etc. seem to know what to do with it.

What I learned from THIS thread. No one seems to know what NIL really means.
I'm not a lawyer, but I DO know, one doesn't know the law because they know the English language. (Remember, you are NOT free to holler 'fire' in a theater because you have 1st amendment speech rights.).

What rights do schools have to market their school and sports?

What rights do athletes have to market their NIL?

Hutchinson could have his image on a pizza box BUT can't do so in an EMU uni.

EMU can have Hutchinson's jersey on a pizza box but not his name.

My guess: For the first year (or whatever) the LAWYERS are the big winners.

Here's a fun explainer of NIL rights:
https://www.sbnation.com/2021/7/1/225580...-explained

Two points:

1). Even though the author was an athlete and has general knowledge of what she speaks, she presumably isn't a lawyer or USPTO (Patents Trademarks Office of the U.S. government. I have a friend whose son works there). Once again, I want to read what lawyers and PTO folks, esp. sports, have to say.

Folks writing for SBNation, etc. are not lawyers, doctors, etc. and really don't have the expertise to speak about PTO issues, medical issues, etc.

One can watch cable and see a parade of legal minds, lawyers, FBI, SDNY, etc. and hear legal issues discussed by the best in the business. They are the best legal mind not journalists.

2). I'm in favor of allowing college athletes to borrow money while on athletic scholarship. COA money isn't hardly enough for most student athletes to survive. BTW, I hope athletes got stimulus this year. Correct? Let them borrow say a sum equal to $500 / month (6K for a 12 month year). The idea isn't that a CFB player shouldn't have more than $10 in his pocket. They may have significant expenses like that phone in their pocket and phone service.

Jay Bilas is a former college athlete and a lawyer. Here's what he has to say:
https://www.npr.org/2021/06/29/101141507...a-nil-vote
07-06-2021 08:53 AM
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emu steve Offline
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Post: #128
RE: "Money Monday"
(07-06-2021 08:53 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 08:42 AM)emu steve Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 06:29 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 06:11 AM)emu steve Wrote:  
(07-05-2021 05:27 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  Guys this is a freaking circus!

A competent NCAA commissioner would have seen this storm coming as California passed their own NIL law long ago. He would have marshalled the support of the P5 conference Presidents and went to congress to explain why certain anti-trust exemptions were needed as most NCAA programs DO NOT generate profits. Instead the NCAA is thrust immediately into a free-for-all of chaos, where we simply are forced to accept the results of once the "smoke clears".

This has become a clusterf--k, thank you Mark Emmert.

The NCAA is a dysfunctional organization. They did see this storm coming but had no clue how to deal with it.

As noted, this thing has landed on college sports doorstep and no one, e.g., NCAA, players, etc. seem to know what to do with it.

What I learned from THIS thread. No one seems to know what NIL really means.
I'm not a lawyer, but I DO know, one doesn't know the law because they know the English language. (Remember, you are NOT free to holler 'fire' in a theater because you have 1st amendment speech rights.).

What rights do schools have to market their school and sports?

What rights do athletes have to market their NIL?

Hutchinson could have his image on a pizza box BUT can't do so in an EMU uni.

EMU can have Hutchinson's jersey on a pizza box but not his name.

My guess: For the first year (or whatever) the LAWYERS are the big winners.

Here's a fun explainer of NIL rights:
https://www.sbnation.com/2021/7/1/225580...-explained

Two points:

1). Even though the author was an athlete and has general knowledge of what she speaks, she presumably isn't a lawyer or USPTO (Patents Trademarks Office of the U.S. government. I have a friend whose son works there). Once again, I want to read what lawyers and PTO folks, esp. sports, have to say.

Folks writing for SBNation, etc. are not lawyers, doctors, etc. and really don't have the expertise to speak about PTO issues, medical issues, etc.

One can watch cable and see a parade of legal minds, lawyers, FBI, SDNY, etc. and hear legal issues discussed by the best in the business. They are the best legal mind not journalists.

2). I'm in favor of allowing college athletes to borrow money while on athletic scholarship. COA money isn't hardly enough for most student athletes to survive. BTW, I hope athletes got stimulus this year. Correct? Let them borrow say a sum equal to $500 / month (6K for a 12 month year). The idea isn't that a CFB player shouldn't have more than $10 in his pocket. They may have significant expenses like that phone in their pocket and phone service.

Jay Bilas is a former college athlete and a lawyer. Here's what he has to say:
https://www.npr.org/2021/06/29/101141507...a-nil-vote

I'm surprised by Jay's comments. He is too smart to say a lot of what he said.

A young man joins a Catholic seminary and gives away many of his rights (including the right to marry, the right to live in private housing, etc.) to become a Priest. And that Priest can't say, I'm leaving X diocese and want to start my own parish in Y diocese.

A solider gives away his/her rights to quit anytime they want, pick the city or country they serve, etc. etc. to join the military.

College and pro athletes are in specific fields where they literally give up some of their individual rights for other rights (the right to be a student athlete). As we've discussed many times, a FB player can not quit school X and join school Y, the following week. A high school FB player can quit in the middle of the season. If a college or NFL player quits in the middle of the season...

The LOI, the athletic scholarship docs, etc. are legal documents. A student athlete makes certain promises and in turn the school makes certain promises. The promises are significant. E.g., a year at some colleges with R&B, etc. might be worth 50K.

Any time someone signs a contract they make promises which they would rather not (e.g., make a car payment).

Some employees, e.g., contractors, are bound by contracts.

When I was a federal employee I gave up some of my 'free speech' rights (provisions of the Hatch Act.) Believe I gave up rights to any patents, trademarks, etc. Dr. Fauci or his team can not get patents on scientific discovery made by them or through monies given to researchers.

They notion that because Mary Q. Coed can go home on the weekends doesn't mean her boyfriend, a football player, can.

The notion that we are all 'free spirits' to do like we wish and like others can do is simply not the way the world is.

P.S. A school teacher in Loudon County, Va. got into a squabble with his school board about trans issues and his 'free speech' rights. It is boiling.
(This post was last modified: 07-06-2021 09:45 AM by emu steve.)
07-06-2021 09:33 AM
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dansplaining Offline
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Post: #129
RE: "Money Monday"
(07-06-2021 09:33 AM)emu steve Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 08:53 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 08:42 AM)emu steve Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 06:29 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 06:11 AM)emu steve Wrote:  The NCAA is a dysfunctional organization. They did see this storm coming but had no clue how to deal with it.

As noted, this thing has landed on college sports doorstep and no one, e.g., NCAA, players, etc. seem to know what to do with it.

What I learned from THIS thread. No one seems to know what NIL really means.
I'm not a lawyer, but I DO know, one doesn't know the law because they know the English language. (Remember, you are NOT free to holler 'fire' in a theater because you have 1st amendment speech rights.).

What rights do schools have to market their school and sports?

What rights do athletes have to market their NIL?

Hutchinson could have his image on a pizza box BUT can't do so in an EMU uni.

EMU can have Hutchinson's jersey on a pizza box but not his name.

My guess: For the first year (or whatever) the LAWYERS are the big winners.

Here's a fun explainer of NIL rights:
https://www.sbnation.com/2021/7/1/225580...-explained

Two points:

1). Even though the author was an athlete and has general knowledge of what she speaks, she presumably isn't a lawyer or USPTO (Patents Trademarks Office of the U.S. government. I have a friend whose son works there). Once again, I want to read what lawyers and PTO folks, esp. sports, have to say.

Folks writing for SBNation, etc. are not lawyers, doctors, etc. and really don't have the expertise to speak about PTO issues, medical issues, etc.

One can watch cable and see a parade of legal minds, lawyers, FBI, SDNY, etc. and hear legal issues discussed by the best in the business. They are the best legal mind not journalists.

2). I'm in favor of allowing college athletes to borrow money while on athletic scholarship. COA money isn't hardly enough for most student athletes to survive. BTW, I hope athletes got stimulus this year. Correct? Let them borrow say a sum equal to $500 / month (6K for a 12 month year). The idea isn't that a CFB player shouldn't have more than $10 in his pocket. They may have significant expenses like that phone in their pocket and phone service.

Jay Bilas is a former college athlete and a lawyer. Here's what he has to say:
https://www.npr.org/2021/06/29/101141507...a-nil-vote

I'm surprised by Jay's comments. He is too smart to say a lot of what he said.

A young man joins a Catholic seminary and gives away many of his rights (including the right to marry, the right to live in private housing, etc.) to become a Priest. And that Priest can't say, I'm leaving X diocese and want to start my own parish in Y diocese.

A solider gives away his/her rights to quit anytime they want, pick the city or country they serve, etc. etc. to join the military.

College and pro athletes are in specific fields where they literally give up some of their individual rights for other rights (the right to be a student athlete). As we've discussed many times, a FB player can not quit school X and join school Y, the following week. A high school FB player can quit in the middle of the season. If a college or NFL player quits in the middle of the season...

The LOI, the athletic scholarship docs, etc. are legal documents. A student athlete makes certain promises and in turn the school makes certain promises. The promises are significant. E.g., a year at some colleges with R&B, etc. might be worth 50K.

Any time someone signs a contract they make promises which they would rather not (e.g., make a car payment).

Some employees, e.g., contractors, are bound by contracts.

When I was a federal employee I gave up some of my 'free speech' rights (provisions of the Hatch Act.) Believe I gave up rights to any patents, trademarks, etc. Dr. Fauci or his team can not get patents on scientific discovery made by them or through monies given to researchers.

They notion that because Mary Q. Coed can go home on the weekends doesn't mean her boyfriend, a football player, can.

The notion that we are all 'free spirits' to do like we wish and like others can do is simply not the way the world is.

P.S. A school teacher in Loudon County, Va. got into a squabble with his school board about trans issues and his 'free speech' rights. It is boiling.

Wow its wild that you're smarter than the guy whos literally a subject matter expert in both law and being a college athlete. or maybe you are just stubborn and arguing in bad faith.
07-06-2021 10:11 AM
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emu steve Offline
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Post: #130
RE: "Money Monday"
(07-06-2021 10:11 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 09:33 AM)emu steve Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 08:53 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 08:42 AM)emu steve Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 06:29 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  Here's a fun explainer of NIL rights:
https://www.sbnation.com/2021/7/1/225580...-explained

Two points:

1). Even though the author was an athlete and has general knowledge of what she speaks, she presumably isn't a lawyer or USPTO (Patents Trademarks Office of the U.S. government. I have a friend whose son works there). Once again, I want to read what lawyers and PTO folks, esp. sports, have to say.

Folks writing for SBNation, etc. are not lawyers, doctors, etc. and really don't have the expertise to speak about PTO issues, medical issues, etc.

One can watch cable and see a parade of legal minds, lawyers, FBI, SDNY, etc. and hear legal issues discussed by the best in the business. They are the best legal mind not journalists.

2). I'm in favor of allowing college athletes to borrow money while on athletic scholarship. COA money isn't hardly enough for most student athletes to survive. BTW, I hope athletes got stimulus this year. Correct? Let them borrow say a sum equal to $500 / month (6K for a 12 month year). The idea isn't that a CFB player shouldn't have more than $10 in his pocket. They may have significant expenses like that phone in their pocket and phone service.

Jay Bilas is a former college athlete and a lawyer. Here's what he has to say:
https://www.npr.org/2021/06/29/101141507...a-nil-vote

I'm surprised by Jay's comments. He is too smart to say a lot of what he said.

A young man joins a Catholic seminary and gives away many of his rights (including the right to marry, the right to live in private housing, etc.) to become a Priest. And that Priest can't say, I'm leaving X diocese and want to start my own parish in Y diocese.

A solider gives away his/her rights to quit anytime they want, pick the city or country they serve, etc. etc. to join the military.

College and pro athletes are in specific fields where they literally give up some of their individual rights for other rights (the right to be a student athlete). As we've discussed many times, a FB player can not quit school X and join school Y, the following week. A high school FB player can quit in the middle of the season. If a college or NFL player quits in the middle of the season...

The LOI, the athletic scholarship docs, etc. are legal documents. A student athlete makes certain promises and in turn the school makes certain promises. The promises are significant. E.g., a year at some colleges with R&B, etc. might be worth 50K.

Any time someone signs a contract they make promises which they would rather not (e.g., make a car payment).

Some employees, e.g., contractors, are bound by contracts.

When I was a federal employee I gave up some of my 'free speech' rights (provisions of the Hatch Act.) Believe I gave up rights to any patents, trademarks, etc. Dr. Fauci or his team can not get patents on scientific discovery made by them or through monies given to researchers.

They notion that because Mary Q. Coed can go home on the weekends doesn't mean her boyfriend, a football player, can.

The notion that we are all 'free spirits' to do like we wish and like others can do is simply not the way the world is.

P.S. A school teacher in Loudon County, Va. got into a squabble with his school board about trans issues and his 'free speech' rights. It is boiling.

Wow its wild that you're smarter than the guy whos literally a subject matter expert in both law and being a college athlete. or maybe you are just stubborn and arguing in bad faith.

Jay Bilas has been living in a sports bubble most of his life. P.S. does he practice law and what type?

And, of course, you can find lawyers on OPPOSITE sides of the same issue. Last week I watched lawyers on each side debate the tax case in NYC.

One lawyer's opinion and a buck might get you a cup of coffee at McDonalds.

E.g., a more serious discussion might be: An Orthodox(?) Jew or Seventh Day Adventist says he can't play sports between sun down Friday and sun down Saturday. Where does the athletes' rights come into play? Did he pick a university which plays games on Friday evenings or Saturday afternoons? (This came up around 1995 when I found a Seventh Day Adventist 7 footer in D.C. who was looking at Duke, but the religious restrictions came into play. I came to watch a tourney that Todd Beeton was playing. I was told there were issues playing Friday evenings/Saturday afternoons. We (EMU) were playing Saturday afternoon games. I contacted either Brian Miller or Gary Waters, sent materials, etc. and he was scheduled to visit and Doc. Fennel was going to do the academics for biology (the guy wanted to be a doctor). Braun was okay with him missing any Friday night/Saturday afternoon games. He canceled at the last minute and decided to go to a church-affiliated school in CA. Think it was Loma Linda which has its own medical school attached to it.)

Okay, he was a college athlete with choices. What if he were a NBA player? What rights did he have? How are they handled?

Life is complicated.
(This post was last modified: 07-06-2021 10:28 AM by emu steve.)
07-06-2021 10:26 AM
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emu steve Offline
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Post: #131
RE: "Money Monday"
(07-06-2021 10:11 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 09:33 AM)emu steve Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 08:53 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 08:42 AM)emu steve Wrote:  
(07-06-2021 06:29 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  Here's a fun explainer of NIL rights:
https://www.sbnation.com/2021/7/1/225580...-explained

Two points:

1). Even though the author was an athlete and has general knowledge of what she speaks, she presumably isn't a lawyer or USPTO (Patents Trademarks Office of the U.S. government. I have a friend whose son works there). Once again, I want to read what lawyers and PTO folks, esp. sports, have to say.

Folks writing for SBNation, etc. are not lawyers, doctors, etc. and really don't have the expertise to speak about PTO issues, medical issues, etc.

One can watch cable and see a parade of legal minds, lawyers, FBI, SDNY, etc. and hear legal issues discussed by the best in the business. They are the best legal mind not journalists.

2). I'm in favor of allowing college athletes to borrow money while on athletic scholarship. COA money isn't hardly enough for most student athletes to survive. BTW, I hope athletes got stimulus this year. Correct? Let them borrow say a sum equal to $500 / month (6K for a 12 month year). The idea isn't that a CFB player shouldn't have more than $10 in his pocket. They may have significant expenses like that phone in their pocket and phone service.

Jay Bilas is a former college athlete and a lawyer. Here's what he has to say:
https://www.npr.org/2021/06/29/101141507...a-nil-vote

I'm surprised by Jay's comments. He is too smart to say a lot of what he said.

A young man joins a Catholic seminary and gives away many of his rights (including the right to marry, the right to live in private housing, etc.) to become a Priest. And that Priest can't say, I'm leaving X diocese and want to start my own parish in Y diocese.

A solider gives away his/her rights to quit anytime they want, pick the city or country they serve, etc. etc. to join the military.

College and pro athletes are in specific fields where they literally give up some of their individual rights for other rights (the right to be a student athlete). As we've discussed many times, a FB player can not quit school X and join school Y, the following week. A high school FB player can quit in the middle of the season. If a college or NFL player quits in the middle of the season...

The LOI, the athletic scholarship docs, etc. are legal documents. A student athlete makes certain promises and in turn the school makes certain promises. The promises are significant. E.g., a year at some colleges with R&B, etc. might be worth 50K.

Any time someone signs a contract they make promises which they would rather not (e.g., make a car payment).

Some employees, e.g., contractors, are bound by contracts.

When I was a federal employee I gave up some of my 'free speech' rights (provisions of the Hatch Act.) Believe I gave up rights to any patents, trademarks, etc. Dr. Fauci or his team can not get patents on scientific discovery made by them or through monies given to researchers.

They notion that because Mary Q. Coed can go home on the weekends doesn't mean her boyfriend, a football player, can.

The notion that we are all 'free spirits' to do like we wish and like others can do is simply not the way the world is.

P.S. A school teacher in Loudon County, Va. got into a squabble with his school board about trans issues and his 'free speech' rights. It is boiling.

Wow its wild that you're smarter than the guy whos literally a subject matter expert in both law and being a college athlete. or maybe you are just stubborn and arguing in bad faith.

Here are topics from a handbook for Federal employees:

"Chapter 5: Employment Restrictions

Dual Employment

Ethics Policies

Gift Policies

Political Activities"

Here is some from Google:

"Can federal employees accept gifts?
Gifts valued at $20 or less (retail market value), per occasion from a single source. Gifts that do not exceed $20 per source per occasion or $50 from a single source in any given calendar year, may be accepted. You may not accept cash or checks made out to you under any circumstance."

Maybe I should have gone on strike. Oops, that would have gotten me fired. Federal employees can't strike.

It was tried in the 1980s (PATCO), air traffic controllers, they got fired by Reagan.

I worked under a leader of that strike, some years later.

***************
https://ask.fedweek.com/federal-governme...les-gifts/
(This post was last modified: 07-06-2021 10:44 AM by emu steve.)
07-06-2021 10:36 AM
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emu steve Offline
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Post: #132
RE: "Money Monday"
Let me summarize my views before I drop this thread:

1). I am all in favor of improving conditions for college athletes. E.g., increase COA allowance, better protections against long term health issues, maintain Title IX, do more for 'non-revenue sports', etc. BUT my bottom line: IT IS FOR EVERYONE ON THE TEAM (e.g., bowl gift pack), and hopefully a standard across the NCAA.

2). NIL, if it is abused, and money is the root of all evil, and I think it will be. Why? RECRUITING ADVANTAGE. Schools will say, our last 5-star QB, got 2K NIL contract from a lot car dealership. Another school will say 5K and another might say 10K. Recruits will literally be bought with implicit promises of riches. If you thought politicians were bought by CAMPAIGN contributions, wait until the NIL abuses surface.

As far as legal advice, instead of Jay Bilas, I wish Heather was here. She is an AD and a lawyer and she could know the NCAA rules and regs and legal history backwards and forwards. Most ADs are not lawyers. They rely on their compliance staff who may get bent like pretzels for the advantage of the school.

I just don't want college sports ruined. As DP and others have indicated this has dropped like poop and someone needs to get it cleaned up. If it gets out of hand, it will be difficult to put the genie back in the bottle...
(This post was last modified: 07-06-2021 11:12 AM by emu steve.)
07-06-2021 11:07 AM
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dansplaining Offline
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Post: #133
RE: "Money Monday"
(07-06-2021 11:07 AM)emu steve Wrote:  Let me summarize my views before I drop this thread:

1). I am all in favor of improving conditions for college athletes. E.g., increase COA allowance, better protections against long term health issues, maintain Title IX, do more for 'non-revenue sports', etc. BUT my bottom line: IT IS FOR EVERYONE ON THE TEAM (e.g., bowl gift pack), and hopefully a standard across the NCAA.

2). NIL, if it is abused, and money is the root of all evil, and I think it will be. Why? RECRUITING ADVANTAGE. Schools will say, our last 5-star QB, got 2K NIL contract from a lot car dealership. Another school will say 5K and another might say 10K. Recruits will literally be bought with implicit promises of riches. If you thought politicians were bought by CAMPAIGN contributions, wait until the NIL abuses surface.

As far as legal advice, instead of Jay Bilas, I wish Heather was here. She is an AD and a lawyer and she could know the NCAA rules and regs and legal history backwards and forwards. Most ADs are not lawyers. They rely on their compliance staff who may get bent like pretzels for the advantage of the school.

I just don't want college sports ruined. As DP and others have indicated this has dropped like poop and someone needs to get it cleaned up. If it gets out of hand, it will be difficult to put the genie back in the bottle...

I would like to respond to item 2 that you point out specifically:

Schools already buy players. To act like its a fair playing field is to be intentionally wrong. Don't be naive and act like there are guys choosing between Alabama and EMU.
07-06-2021 11:33 AM
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emu steve Offline
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Post: #134
RE: "Money Monday"
07-07-2021 03:05 PM
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Jerry Weaver Offline
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Post: #135
RE: "Money Monday"
(07-06-2021 05:56 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(07-05-2021 05:27 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  
(07-04-2021 07:23 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(07-04-2021 04:25 PM)emu steve Wrote:  
(07-01-2021 12:58 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  It absolutely legally stands. The fact that football and track and basketball and rowing and all of these are 'Team Sports' doesn't negate the fact that the team is marketing specific individuals based on their NIL.

Teams can ABSOLUTELY market without the usage of player directly - maybe use the mascot for example - but when you use a specific person in advertising that person should either have a.) signed those rights away or b.) receive compensation.

This example doesnt have any relevance for the situation today because schools are still barred from paying players. Players can merely make money from private and independent endorsements and sponsorship.

Okay, I now get it.

EMU uses banners in Ypsi. Those banners have individual athletes likeness on them. HOWEVER, there is NO effort to monetize those likenesses.

TO ME, the difference is whether the images are used to PUBLICIZE the team OR to monetize them (e.g., put names on the backs of jerseys).

I'm not aware of EMU using likeness to monetize such as autographed footballs, baseballs, etc. Ditto for jerseys, etc.

I have a couple autographed footballs but they were by the FB HC and monies went to charity. (this was done by the coaches association).

BTW, I would GUESS players sign their rights to incidental, not monetary, usage of their likeness. My mug was all over the newspapers 9 years ago (AP did the photo and I was on the front page of dozens of newspapers). I gave them my name and city of residence which I assume was in implicit or explicit agreement to use my likeness.

Seen it in Catholic Churches who live stream Masses. It is a posted notice only.

Again - this is all meaningless to the situation at hand because the rule changes that went into effect allow players to profit independent of the university. schools cannot pay players currently.

Guys this is a freaking circus!

A competent NCAA commissioner would have seen this storm coming as California passed their own NIL law long ago. He would have marshalled the support of the P5 conference Presidents and went to congress to explain why certain anti-trust exemptions were needed as most NCAA programs DO NOT generate profits. Instead the NCAA is thrust immediately into a free-for-all of chaos, where we simply are forced to accept the results of once the "smoke clears".

This has become a clusterf--k, thank you Mark Emmert.

The NCAA is good for the following things:
Cashing Checks

Welp that's it.

Emmert makes 2.7 million a year to run an organization that basically does just one thing, negotiate the television contracts for the NCAA championships. He also has a HUGE staff that is often caught flat footed by the athletic shoe scandal uncovered by the FBI and the recent disparity of Championship Basketball training facilities for the men and women. They have continuously portrayed themselves as "the gang that can't shoot straight".

Emmert and Miles Brand before him, were college Presidents with ZERO academic credentials in either the law or business and the demonstrated incompetence of the NCAA has indeed been a result of that.

Emmert is seriously out of depth here, he simply is devoid of the skill sets to manage the NCAA, especially during this time of extreme turbulence. It is high time for Universities in the USA to "blow Up" the NCAA as we know it.
07-07-2021 05:22 PM
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emu79 Offline
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Post: #136
RE: "Money Monday"
The entire NCAA system is bankrupt revenues do not cover expenses for ALL schools in ALL divisions. Maybe a member school should petition to place it in bankruptcy and reorganize athletic finances for all the parties with the goal of making the system work for all.
07-07-2021 06:21 PM
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emu steve Offline
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Post: #137
RE: "Money Monday"
Read for yourself. It took ONE WEEK for someone to blow the lid off of this...

https://www.espn.com/college-football/st...cholarship
07-08-2021 03:26 AM
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dansplaining Offline
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Post: #138
RE: "Money Monday"
(07-08-2021 03:26 AM)emu steve Wrote:  Read for yourself. It took ONE WEEK for someone to blow the lid off of this...

https://www.espn.com/college-football/st...cholarship

Blow the lid off what? That sounds like a great investment for Dan Lambert. Miami LOVES the Hurricanes and that's a super easy endorsement deal to make. Nothing about that is uncouth or shady. If I'm being honest I guess I'm surprised it isn't more? If you think this is the first time Miami Hurricanes players have been paid you're the most naive college football fan on planet earth.

Speaking of Miami - Check out what D'Eriq King (and Mackenzie Milton of FSU) are doing:
https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...nil-rules/
(This post was last modified: 07-08-2021 06:39 AM by dansplaining.)
07-08-2021 06:36 AM
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Post: #139
RE: "Money Monday"
(07-08-2021 06:36 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(07-08-2021 03:26 AM)emu steve Wrote:  Read for yourself. It took ONE WEEK for someone to blow the lid off of this...

https://www.espn.com/college-football/st...cholarship

Blow the lid off what? That sounds like a great investment for Dan Lambert. Miami LOVES the Hurricanes and that's a super easy endorsement deal to make. Nothing about that is uncouth or shady. If I'm being honest I guess I'm surprised it isn't more? If you think this is the first time Miami Hurricanes players have been paid you're the most naive college football fan on planet earth.

Speaking of Miami - Check out what D'Eriq King (and Mackenzie Milton of FSU) are doing:
https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...nil-rules/

The good thing about what he is doing is 'blowing the lid' off of this.

Remember say 16 months ago, too many people had their heads in the sand about Covid (it will pass and go away) and then it didn't.

Here the NCAA and Congress had their heads in the sand about NIL and hoped it wouldn't explode. It just did.

This guy Lambert may have money but he is no Jerry Jones, Phil Knight, etc. T. Boone Pickett I believed died a few years ago.

Now Congress needs to act.

As far as 'everyone does it' that is the mantra on tax cheating. Any researcher knows one doesn't need to catch 100% of speeders, etc. Catch 5% and the other 95% get the message.

In college sports it only takes ONE to blow the whistle. Pete Rose got caught for tax evasion. I forgot the infamous organized crime guy who didn't get caught for murder but tax evasion.
(This post was last modified: 07-08-2021 06:59 AM by emu steve.)
07-08-2021 06:57 AM
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emu steve Offline
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Post: #140
RE: "Money Monday"
This is a crazy, but true, story from the 90s. And it is yours truly and EMU:

I went to a MBB kickoff reception at the Eagle Crest (?). I was standing with Kareem Carpenter, who was either 21 or 22. I said, knowing NCAA rules, "I can't buy you a drink." Kareem looked at me and said, "but I can buy you one."
07-08-2021 07:02 AM
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