(06-23-2021 06:38 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  

(06-22-2021 05:13 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  

(06-22-2021 02:30 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  

(06-22-2021 02:08 PM)cidbearit Wrote:  I've worked in Development (fundraising) pretty much my entire 36-year career. Much of that time was spent working at Universities (including a 3-year stint at EMU). An interesting concept just came to this old fundraiser's mind. In university development offices, the old joke is that if it holds still long enough, a development officer will try to find a donor to name it.

As the era of paying players ushers in, might some of the booster rules be relaxed, allowing donors to fund named endowments to help supplement the cost of specific player positions? For example, you could have the Jerry Weaver Quarterback, the Dansplaining Middle Linebacker, and the EMU Steve Punter as named starting positions, each funded by a contribution from the named generous booster.

I've brought it up before but i think its bonkers the school doesnt sell the naming rights to the convo.

Dan, that I will agree with 100%. I thought when OSU built the new Basketball arena and named it the Value City Arena, then subsequently the Schottenstein Center, that would ignite a cascade of others doing the same. It, however did not, sanctimonious NCAA schools can apparently plaster a corporate name like St. Joes on their practice facility but find it unpleasable to do so on actual game facilities. That splitting of a moral hair, I simply don't understand.

U-M is under pressure to rename the Crisler Center due to the former coach's racist past behavior, similar to what happened at Quirk Theatre. The name change is most likely to happen and U-M will of course bear the cost of changing all the signage and spend a ton of money on committees deciding on the new name.

I say contract the naming rights to a corporate sponsor ready to pony up money. It can be a five or ten year deal, there is ZERO need for it to be permanent. The Houston Astros used to play at Enron Field but due to Enron's cataclysmic failure, they now play in the same building now known as Minute Maid Park. Easy Peezy.

Most importantly ANY revenue collected from EMU renaming the Convo or that matter Rynearson would be truly incremental. No costs other than negotiating the contract.

I would argue against renaming Rynearson because 1.) its a unique name and 2.) its named after a person as an honor. there are three 'Convocation Center's in the MAC alone.

So many other things at EMU are for sale - it only makes sense to sell the name of the convo on a leased basis like pro teams have. hit an alum up like roush or the estate of bruce halle. work the phones is what im saying.

I think you are 20 years late to the party. EMU tried after it was built and still in the glow of the Boykins years. I heard the offers were not worth it.

I think Christian Spears when he was at EMU even suggested a new stadium, naming the scoreboard, etc. That would have involved a ton of money with no guarantees that someone would pony up for their name on a NEW stadium.

I would suggest that if we can't get a sponsor for the new scoreboard how do we get a big deal for the Convo?

Naming athletic buildings at EMU isn't easy or profitable.

(06-23-2021 07:07 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 06:38 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  

(06-22-2021 05:13 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  

(06-22-2021 02:30 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  

(06-22-2021 02:08 PM)cidbearit Wrote:  I've worked in Development (fundraising) pretty much my entire 36-year career. Much of that time was spent working at Universities (including a 3-year stint at EMU). An interesting concept just came to this old fundraiser's mind. In university development offices, the old joke is that if it holds still long enough, a development officer will try to find a donor to name it.

As the era of paying players ushers in, might some of the booster rules be relaxed, allowing donors to fund named endowments to help supplement the cost of specific player positions? For example, you could have the Jerry Weaver Quarterback, the Dansplaining Middle Linebacker, and the EMU Steve Punter as named starting positions, each funded by a contribution from the named generous booster.

I've brought it up before but i think its bonkers the school doesnt sell the naming rights to the convo.

Dan, that I will agree with 100%. I thought when OSU built the new Basketball arena and named it the Value City Arena, then subsequently the Schottenstein Center, that would ignite a cascade of others doing the same. It, however did not, sanctimonious NCAA schools can apparently plaster a corporate name like St. Joes on their practice facility but find it unpleasable to do so on actual game facilities. That splitting of a moral hair, I simply don't understand.

U-M is under pressure to rename the Crisler Center due to the former coach's racist past behavior, similar to what happened at Quirk Theatre. The name change is most likely to happen and U-M will of course bear the cost of changing all the signage and spend a ton of money on committees deciding on the new name.

I say contract the naming rights to a corporate sponsor ready to pony up money. It can be a five or ten year deal, there is ZERO need for it to be permanent. The Houston Astros used to play at Enron Field but due to Enron's cataclysmic failure, they now play in the same building now known as Minute Maid Park. Easy Peezy.

Most importantly ANY revenue collected from EMU renaming the Convo or that matter Rynearson would be truly incremental. No costs other than negotiating the contract.

I would argue against renaming Rynearson because 1.) its a unique name and 2.) its named after a person as an honor. there are three 'Convocation Center's in the MAC alone.

So many other things at EMU are for sale - it only makes sense to sell the name of the convo on a leased basis like pro teams have. hit an alum up like roush or the estate of bruce halle. work the phones is what im saying.

I think you are 20 years late to the party. EMU tried after it was built and still in the glow of the Boykins years. I heard the offers were not worth it.

I think Christian Spears when he was at EMU even suggested a new stadium, naming the scoreboard, etc.

I would suggest that if we can't get a sponsor for the new scoreboard how do we get a big deal for the Convo?

Naming athletic buildings at EMU isn't easy or profitable.

20 years ago i was 12 - sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

thats the AD and his staff's job

Last I recall the Factory could use about $8 million in concrete repairs. And yes we will need a new stadium or renovation.
If the State has extra dollars for EMU maybe paying off the SAPC and the $8 million would be helpful.
Right now finance costs ie interest rates are low that will change next year.

(06-23-2021 09:45 AM)emu79 Wrote:  Last I recall the Factory could use about $8 million in concrete repairs. And yes we will need a new stadium or renovation.
If the State has extra dollars for EMU maybe paying off the SAPC and the $8 million would be helpful.
Right now finance costs ie interest rates are low that will change next year.

I'm going off an a $ tangent. I saw some $ on the proposed pot of $ for the possible expanded CFP.

I believe the TV money would go from 600M to 1B. Sounds impressive but does it mean G5 schools might go from 1M per school to 2M per school.

That is hardly hitting the lottery. EMU will hardly get rich if NO MAC team, let alone EMU, makes the CFP. It' like get $1,400 stimulus while someone cashes in 100K in the stock market last year.

The only way to do well is IF a MAC team makes the CFP. That would significantly increase the MAC's share of the pot. Otherwise, it is 'trickle down' with conferences not playing in the CFP getting small bucks.

(06-23-2021 10:34 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 09:45 AM)emu79 Wrote:  Last I recall the Factory could use about $8 million in concrete repairs. And yes we will need a new stadium or renovation.
If the State has extra dollars for EMU maybe paying off the SAPC and the $8 million would be helpful.
Right now finance costs ie interest rates are low that will change next year.

I'm going off an a $ tangent. I saw some $ on the proposed pot of $ for the possible expanded CFP.

I believe the TV money would go from 600M to 1B. Sounds impressive but does it mean G5 schools might go from 1M per school to 2M per school.

That is hardly hitting the lottery. EMU will hardly get rich if NO MAC team, let alone EMU, makes the CFP. It' like get $1,400 stimulus while someone cashes in 100K in the stock market last year.

The only way to do well is IF a MAC team makes the CFP. That would significantly increase the MAC's share of the pot. Otherwise, it is 'trickle down' with conferences not playing in the CFP getting small bucks.

OK, Justice Kavanaugh just labeled the NCAA as a business, it is high time for the NCAA to start acting like one.

The best run pro sports organization in our country, the NFL has a revenue sharing agreement that equally benefits ALL of their members and a salary cap that maintains competitive balance. The NCAA, however, flounders as they select college Presidents to run their organization, I suppose as an effort to maintain a semblance of "academic integrity". Nevertheless Mark Emmert just is not Roger Goodell.

What that has manifested into is a situation where Nick Saban earns over $10M a year and the top 30 schools in the NCAA turn a profit. I hear it on NPR, I hear it from Dan and the Supreme Court heard it as well, college sports make a whole lot of money! Unfortunately the remainder of those college programs compete in sports paid for by the students enrolled in their University. That business model is insane!

(06-23-2021 06:02 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 10:34 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 09:45 AM)emu79 Wrote:  Last I recall the Factory could use about $8 million in concrete repairs. And yes we will need a new stadium or renovation.
If the State has extra dollars for EMU maybe paying off the SAPC and the $8 million would be helpful.
Right now finance costs ie interest rates are low that will change next year.

I'm going off an a $ tangent. I saw some $ on the proposed pot of $ for the possible expanded CFP.

I believe the TV money would go from 600M to 1B. Sounds impressive but does it mean G5 schools might go from 1M per school to 2M per school.

That is hardly hitting the lottery. EMU will hardly get rich if NO MAC team, let alone EMU, makes the CFP. It' like get $1,400 stimulus while someone cashes in 100K in the stock market last year.

The only way to do well is IF a MAC team makes the CFP. That would significantly increase the MAC's share of the pot. Otherwise, it is 'trickle down' with conferences not playing in the CFP getting small bucks.

OK, Justice Kavanaugh just labeled the NCAA as a business, it is high time for the NCAA to start acting like one.

The best run pro sports organization in our country, the NFL has a revenue sharing agreement that equally benefits ALL of their members and a salary cap that maintains competitive balance. The NCAA, however, flounders as they select college Presidents to run their organization, I suppose as an effort to maintain a semblance of "academic integrity". Nevertheless Mark Emmert just is not Roger Goodell.

What that has manifested into is a situation where Nick Saban earns over $10M a year and the top 30 schools in the NCAA turn a profit. I hear it on NPR, I hear it from Dan and the Supreme Court heard it as well, college sports make a whole lot of money! Unfortunately the remainder of those college programs compete in sports paid for by the students enrolled in their University. That business model is insane!

I think the sports business model that makes most sense for college sports is that of the MLB - where you have CLEAR haves and have nots but a revenue sharing model that floats all boats. Also no cap.

(06-24-2021 06:19 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 06:02 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 10:34 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 09:45 AM)emu79 Wrote:  Last I recall the Factory could use about $8 million in concrete repairs. And yes we will need a new stadium or renovation.
If the State has extra dollars for EMU maybe paying off the SAPC and the $8 million would be helpful.
Right now finance costs ie interest rates are low that will change next year.

I'm going off an a $ tangent. I saw some $ on the proposed pot of $ for the possible expanded CFP.

I believe the TV money would go from 600M to 1B. Sounds impressive but does it mean G5 schools might go from 1M per school to 2M per school.

That is hardly hitting the lottery. EMU will hardly get rich if NO MAC team, let alone EMU, makes the CFP. It' like get $1,400 stimulus while someone cashes in 100K in the stock market last year.

The only way to do well is IF a MAC team makes the CFP. That would significantly increase the MAC's share of the pot. Otherwise, it is 'trickle down' with conferences not playing in the CFP getting small bucks.

OK, Justice Kavanaugh just labeled the NCAA as a business, it is high time for the NCAA to start acting like one.

The best run pro sports organization in our country, the NFL has a revenue sharing agreement that equally benefits ALL of their members and a salary cap that maintains competitive balance. The NCAA, however, flounders as they select college Presidents to run their organization, I suppose as an effort to maintain a semblance of "academic integrity". Nevertheless Mark Emmert just is not Roger Goodell.

What that has manifested into is a situation where Nick Saban earns over $10M a year and the top 30 schools in the NCAA turn a profit. I hear it on NPR, I hear it from Dan and the Supreme Court heard it as well, college sports make a whole lot of money! Unfortunately the remainder of those college programs compete in sports paid for by the students enrolled in their University. That business model is insane!

I think the sports business model that makes most sense for college sports is that of the MLB - where you have CLEAR haves and have nots but a revenue sharing model that floats all boats. Also no cap.

I like the concept, BUT Florida and Florida State are business competitors NOT business partners. FSU couldn't give a s*it is Florida went 0 - 12 and got out scored by 400 - 150.

UofM and OSU are business partners along with 12 other schools. OSU and TOL are not business partners. Nor is EMU and any but 11 other schools.

We basically have CONFERENCES which are independent but fall under the general auspices of the NCAA.

Conferences have their own individual television contracts, distribute as the see fit, schedule as they see fit, etc.

(06-24-2021 09:34 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(06-24-2021 06:19 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 06:02 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 10:34 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 09:45 AM)emu79 Wrote:  Last I recall the Factory could use about $8 million in concrete repairs. And yes we will need a new stadium or renovation.
If the State has extra dollars for EMU maybe paying off the SAPC and the $8 million would be helpful.
Right now finance costs ie interest rates are low that will change next year.

I'm going off an a $ tangent. I saw some $ on the proposed pot of $ for the possible expanded CFP.

I believe the TV money would go from 600M to 1B. Sounds impressive but does it mean G5 schools might go from 1M per school to 2M per school.

That is hardly hitting the lottery. EMU will hardly get rich if NO MAC team, let alone EMU, makes the CFP. It' like get $1,400 stimulus while someone cashes in 100K in the stock market last year.

The only way to do well is IF a MAC team makes the CFP. That would significantly increase the MAC's share of the pot. Otherwise, it is 'trickle down' with conferences not playing in the CFP getting small bucks.

OK, Justice Kavanaugh just labeled the NCAA as a business, it is high time for the NCAA to start acting like one.

The best run pro sports organization in our country, the NFL has a revenue sharing agreement that equally benefits ALL of their members and a salary cap that maintains competitive balance. The NCAA, however, flounders as they select college Presidents to run their organization, I suppose as an effort to maintain a semblance of "academic integrity". Nevertheless Mark Emmert just is not Roger Goodell.

What that has manifested into is a situation where Nick Saban earns over $10M a year and the top 30 schools in the NCAA turn a profit. I hear it on NPR, I hear it from Dan and the Supreme Court heard it as well, college sports make a whole lot of money! Unfortunately the remainder of those college programs compete in sports paid for by the students enrolled in their University. That business model is insane!

I think the sports business model that makes most sense for college sports is that of the MLB - where you have CLEAR haves and have nots but a revenue sharing model that floats all boats. Also no cap.

I like the concept, BUT Florida and Florida State are business competitors NOT business partners. FSU couldn't give a s*it is Florida went 0 - 12 and got out scored by 400 - 150.

UofM and OSU are business partners along with 12 other schools. OSU and TOL are not business partners. Nor is EMU and any but 11 other schools.

We basically have CONFERENCES which are independent but fall under the general auspices of the NCAA.

Conferences have their own individual television contracts, distribute as the see fit, schedule as they see fit, etc.

Yes, but you have to believe that the supreme court decision and other pending litigation will have a "trickle-down" effect on the various conferences, even though they are technically independent entities. If the NCAA can't fight this impending tidal wave, what chance do the B1G, SEC, and all the other conferences have in fending off these challenges?

(06-24-2021 10:50 AM)cidbearit Wrote:  

(06-24-2021 09:34 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(06-24-2021 06:19 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 06:02 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 10:34 AM)emu steve Wrote:  I'm going off an a $ tangent. I saw some $ on the proposed pot of $ for the possible expanded CFP.

I believe the TV money would go from 600M to 1B. Sounds impressive but does it mean G5 schools might go from 1M per school to 2M per school.

That is hardly hitting the lottery. EMU will hardly get rich if NO MAC team, let alone EMU, makes the CFP. It' like get $1,400 stimulus while someone cashes in 100K in the stock market last year.

The only way to do well is IF a MAC team makes the CFP. That would significantly increase the MAC's share of the pot. Otherwise, it is 'trickle down' with conferences not playing in the CFP getting small bucks.

OK, Justice Kavanaugh just labeled the NCAA as a business, it is high time for the NCAA to start acting like one.

The best run pro sports organization in our country, the NFL has a revenue sharing agreement that equally benefits ALL of their members and a salary cap that maintains competitive balance. The NCAA, however, flounders as they select college Presidents to run their organization, I suppose as an effort to maintain a semblance of "academic integrity". Nevertheless Mark Emmert just is not Roger Goodell.

What that has manifested into is a situation where Nick Saban earns over $10M a year and the top 30 schools in the NCAA turn a profit. I hear it on NPR, I hear it from Dan and the Supreme Court heard it as well, college sports make a whole lot of money! Unfortunately the remainder of those college programs compete in sports paid for by the students enrolled in their University. That business model is insane!

I think the sports business model that makes most sense for college sports is that of the MLB - where you have CLEAR haves and have nots but a revenue sharing model that floats all boats. Also no cap.

I like the concept, BUT Florida and Florida State are business competitors NOT business partners. FSU couldn't give a s*it is Florida went 0 - 12 and got out scored by 400 - 150.

UofM and OSU are business partners along with 12 other schools. OSU and TOL are not business partners. Nor is EMU and any but 11 other schools.

We basically have CONFERENCES which are independent but fall under the general auspices of the NCAA.

Conferences have their own individual television contracts, distribute as the see fit, schedule as they see fit, etc.

Yes, but you have to believe that the supreme court decision and other pending litigation will have a "trickle-down" effect on the various conferences, even though they are technically independent entities. If the NCAA can't fight this impending tidal wave, what chance do the B1G, SEC, and all the other conferences have in fending off these challenges?

I think its in the best interest for all of the NCAA member institutions to unite more as business partners and lest they lose out in the market. for example - if the pac-12 is more business friendly to recruits than the SEC - they will have a recruiting edge. if i was a school in a state where pot is legal - i wouldnt test athletes for it. that may give me an edge.

(06-24-2021 10:50 AM)cidbearit Wrote:  

(06-24-2021 09:34 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(06-24-2021 06:19 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 06:02 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 10:34 AM)emu steve Wrote:  I'm going off an a $ tangent. I saw some $ on the proposed pot of $ for the possible expanded CFP.

I believe the TV money would go from 600M to 1B. Sounds impressive but does it mean G5 schools might go from 1M per school to 2M per school.

That is hardly hitting the lottery. EMU will hardly get rich if NO MAC team, let alone EMU, makes the CFP. It' like get $1,400 stimulus while someone cashes in 100K in the stock market last year.

The only way to do well is IF a MAC team makes the CFP. That would significantly increase the MAC's share of the pot. Otherwise, it is 'trickle down' with conferences not playing in the CFP getting small bucks.

OK, Justice Kavanaugh just labeled the NCAA as a business, it is high time for the NCAA to start acting like one.

The best run pro sports organization in our country, the NFL has a revenue sharing agreement that equally benefits ALL of their members and a salary cap that maintains competitive balance. The NCAA, however, flounders as they select college Presidents to run their organization, I suppose as an effort to maintain a semblance of "academic integrity". Nevertheless Mark Emmert just is not Roger Goodell.

What that has manifested into is a situation where Nick Saban earns over $10M a year and the top 30 schools in the NCAA turn a profit. I hear it on NPR, I hear it from Dan and the Supreme Court heard it as well, college sports make a whole lot of money! Unfortunately the remainder of those college programs compete in sports paid for by the students enrolled in their University. That business model is insane!

I think the sports business model that makes most sense for college sports is that of the MLB - where you have CLEAR haves and have nots but a revenue sharing model that floats all boats. Also no cap.

I like the concept, BUT Florida and Florida State are business competitors NOT business partners. FSU couldn't give a s*it is Florida went 0 - 12 and got out scored by 400 - 150.

UofM and OSU are business partners along with 12 other schools. OSU and TOL are not business partners. Nor is EMU and any but 11 other schools.

We basically have CONFERENCES which are independent but fall under the general auspices of the NCAA.

Conferences have their own individual television contracts, distribute as the see fit, schedule as they see fit, etc.

Yes, but you have to believe that the supreme court decision and other pending litigation will have a "trickle-down" effect on the various conferences, even though they are technically independent entities. If the NCAA can't fight this impending tidal wave, what chance do the B1G, SEC, and all the other conferences have in fending off these challenges?

The NCAA needs to "man up" and construct an effective sports organization. Emmert and his ilk need to go bye-bye, they have no experience operating with a P&L statement and consistently look like the "gang that can't shoot straight".

First, they need destroy the model where conferences make their own rules. The NCAA is the governing body of collegiate athletics and needs to start acting like it. The NFL has strict salary cap rules for all of its members, it does not allow just the AFC to exceed that. It also distributes television contract evenly among its members. There are clear and defined standards for ALL in their league.

Second, the NCAA, by all means should require that all participating athletes be offered lifetime free tuition and healthcare for injuries sustained during their college careers.

Third, they need to go to congress and explain why they need an anti-trust exemption as schools compete ONLY on the field and are true business partners. Once you accomplish the prior objectives, this is doable, the pros have already done it and once granted Kavanaugh's comments about business practices would be moot.

Do I expect that the P5 programs will resist any such change? Hell yes! They will probably threaten to leave the NCAA and create their own "super league". I would be willing to stare them down, the prospect of NIL and paying players is going to do that anyway.

(06-26-2021 07:48 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  

(06-24-2021 10:50 AM)cidbearit Wrote:  

(06-24-2021 09:34 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(06-24-2021 06:19 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  

(06-23-2021 06:02 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  OK, Justice Kavanaugh just labeled the NCAA as a business, it is high time for the NCAA to start acting like one.

The best run pro sports organization in our country, the NFL has a revenue sharing agreement that equally benefits ALL of their members and a salary cap that maintains competitive balance. The NCAA, however, flounders as they select college Presidents to run their organization, I suppose as an effort to maintain a semblance of "academic integrity". Nevertheless Mark Emmert just is not Roger Goodell.

What that has manifested into is a situation where Nick Saban earns over $10M a year and the top 30 schools in the NCAA turn a profit. I hear it on NPR, I hear it from Dan and the Supreme Court heard it as well, college sports make a whole lot of money! Unfortunately the remainder of those college programs compete in sports paid for by the students enrolled in their University. That business model is insane!

I think the sports business model that makes most sense for college sports is that of the MLB - where you have CLEAR haves and have nots but a revenue sharing model that floats all boats. Also no cap.

I like the concept, BUT Florida and Florida State are business competitors NOT business partners. FSU couldn't give a s*it is Florida went 0 - 12 and got out scored by 400 - 150.

UofM and OSU are business partners along with 12 other schools. OSU and TOL are not business partners. Nor is EMU and any but 11 other schools.

We basically have CONFERENCES which are independent but fall under the general auspices of the NCAA.

Conferences have their own individual television contracts, distribute as the see fit, schedule as they see fit, etc.

Yes, but you have to believe that the supreme court decision and other pending litigation will have a "trickle-down" effect on the various conferences, even though they are technically independent entities. If the NCAA can't fight this impending tidal wave, what chance do the B1G, SEC, and all the other conferences have in fending off these challenges?

The NCAA needs to "man up" and construct an effective sports organization. Emmert and his ilk need to go bye-bye, they have no experience operating with a P&L statement and consistently look like the "gang that can't shoot straight".

First, they need destroy the model where conferences make their own rules. The NCAA is the governing body of collegiate athletics and needs to start acting like it. The NFL has strict salary cap rules for all of its members, it does not allow just the AFC to exceed that. It also distributes television contract evenly among its members. There are clear and defined standards for ALL in their league.

Second, the NCAA, by all means should require that all participating athletes be offered lifetime free tuition and healthcare for injuries sustained during their college careers.

Third, they need to go to congress and explain why they need an anti-trust exemption as schools compete ONLY on the field and are true business partners. Once you accomplish the prior objectives, this is doable, the pros have already done it and once granted Kavanaugh's comments about business practices would be moot.

Do I expect that the P5 programs will resist any such change? Hell yes! They will probably threaten to leave the NCAA and create their own "super league". I would be willing to stare them down, the prospect of NIL and paying players is going to do that anyway.

the NCAA acts like all its member institutions are equal. Alabama and Concordia Ann Arbor are both member institutions but they OBVIOUSLY arent equal.

I think the big change youll see if 60 or so football schools will form their own division (like the split between 1-AA and 1-A).

(06-27-2021 07:06 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  

(06-26-2021 07:48 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  

(06-24-2021 10:50 AM)cidbearit Wrote:  

(06-24-2021 09:34 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(06-24-2021 06:19 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  I think the sports business model that makes most sense for college sports is that of the MLB - where you have CLEAR haves and have nots but a revenue sharing model that floats all boats. Also no cap.

I like the concept, BUT Florida and Florida State are business competitors NOT business partners. FSU couldn't give a s*it is Florida went 0 - 12 and got out scored by 400 - 150.

UofM and OSU are business partners along with 12 other schools. OSU and TOL are not business partners. Nor is EMU and any but 11 other schools.

We basically have CONFERENCES which are independent but fall under the general auspices of the NCAA.

Conferences have their own individual television contracts, distribute as the see fit, schedule as they see fit, etc.

Yes, but you have to believe that the supreme court decision and other pending litigation will have a "trickle-down" effect on the various conferences, even though they are technically independent entities. If the NCAA can't fight this impending tidal wave, what chance do the B1G, SEC, and all the other conferences have in fending off these challenges?

The NCAA needs to "man up" and construct an effective sports organization. Emmert and his ilk need to go bye-bye, they have no experience operating with a P&L statement and consistently look like the "gang that can't shoot straight".

First, they need destroy the model where conferences make their own rules. The NCAA is the governing body of collegiate athletics and needs to start acting like it. The NFL has strict salary cap rules for all of its members, it does not allow just the AFC to exceed that. It also distributes television contract evenly among its members. There are clear and defined standards for ALL in their league.

Second, the NCAA, by all means should require that all participating athletes be offered lifetime free tuition and healthcare for injuries sustained during their college careers.

Third, they need to go to congress and explain why they need an anti-trust exemption as schools compete ONLY on the field and are true business partners. Once you accomplish the prior objectives, this is doable, the pros have already done it and once granted Kavanaugh's comments about business practices would be moot.

Do I expect that the P5 programs will resist any such change? Hell yes! They will probably threaten to leave the NCAA and create their own "super league". I would be willing to stare them down, the prospect of NIL and paying players is going to do that anyway.

the NCAA acts like all its member institutions are equal. Alabama and Concordia Ann Arbor are both member institutions but they OBVIOUSLY arent equal.

I think the big change youll see if 60 or so football schools will form their own division (like the split between 1-AA and 1-A).

I think you have an error on your facts: NCAA and NAIA are different organizations. Concordia and many of our non D-I MBB opponents are NAIA members.

The NCAA is a federation or umbrella organization of members. This is very different than say the NFL. Mark Emmert is not a commissioner like Roger Goodell.

I think the correct way to understand it is:

Individual schools (most) are members of conferences. Conferences handle most issues of governance, consistent with rules and regulations of the NCAA.

Individual conferences can negotiate conference wide television, media, scheduling, bowls, etc. rights contract for the benefit of their members. I believe this was settled in court during the 80s. Before that individual schools had their own media (TV) rights.

This is why there is no 'revenue sharing' BETWEEN conferences.

Another way to look at it: UofM and MSU are business partners as are the Lions and Patriots. UofM and EMU are not business partners.

Not to go O/T, but the real injustice in sports is minor league baseball.

Those guys are paid starvation wages even though they are professionals in all senses of the word.

Most did not get big signing bonuses and literally are living 'hand to mouth.' MLB has done too little to help them. Many are career players who are necessary because for every Riley Greene, Torkelson, etc. there have to be others on the lineup card who probably will never make the big leagues. They are living a dream which probably won't come true.

(06-27-2021 09:28 AM)emu steve Wrote:  Not to go O/T, but the real injustice in sports is minor league baseball.

Those guys are paid starvation wages even though they are professionals in all senses of the word.

Most did not get big signing bonuses and literally are living 'hand to mouth.' MLB has done too little to help them. Many are career players who are necessary because for every Riley Greene, Torkelson, etc. there have to be others on the lineup card who probably will never make the big leagues. They are living a dream which probably won't come true.

Isn't that true of most minor leagues regardless of sports?

(06-27-2021 06:05 PM)emu79 Wrote:  

(06-27-2021 09:28 AM)emu steve Wrote:  Not to go O/T, but the real injustice in sports is minor league baseball.

Those guys are paid starvation wages even though they are professionals in all senses of the word.

Most did not get big signing bonuses and literally are living 'hand to mouth.' MLB has done too little to help them. Many are career players who are necessary because for every Riley Greene, Torkelson, etc. there have to be others on the lineup card who probably will never make the big leagues. They are living a dream which probably won't come true.

Isn't that true of most minor leagues regardless of sports?

Steve, once again, makes a bulletproof point with respect to logic. This is a situation we all wish could be better.

That said, the NFL and NBA minor leagues have nowhere near the network of the MLB with respect to the minor leagues. The Spring Football League, that Matt Sexton played in only provides room and board to it participants. The NBA G League is far more lucrative but provides a microscopic footprint in comparison to to MLB.

Most MLB minor league players are employed as Steve says, to provide game opportunities for true prospects. They make peanuts for a salary and are needlessly postponing their long term career prospects. At first glance they are indeed exploited.

At the end of the day, however, the USA is a free country. A 21 year old is able to pursue his dream of a professional baseball career, no matter how glim those prospects might be. He also enjoys the opportunity to play competitive baseball in the minor leagues while he still is physically capable of doing so. Baseball, after all is not golf. I was not a NCAA star baseball player but if not for the big staple in my shoulder, I would have welcomed the chance to play in the minor leagues.

Steve is an intelligent and compassionate guy like Dan, with a great on its face argument. Unfortunately in their genuine zest to improve athletes situations, by paying NCCA players or improving MLB minor league salaries, the likely result will be the unintended consequences of contracting opportunities for said athletes. Less NCCA scholarships and less MLB minor league teams.

(06-27-2021 07:50 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(06-27-2021 07:06 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  

(06-26-2021 07:48 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  

(06-24-2021 10:50 AM)cidbearit Wrote:  

(06-24-2021 09:34 AM)emu steve Wrote:  I like the concept, BUT Florida and Florida State are business competitors NOT business partners. FSU couldn't give a s*it is Florida went 0 - 12 and got out scored by 400 - 150.

UofM and OSU are business partners along with 12 other schools. OSU and TOL are not business partners. Nor is EMU and any but 11 other schools.

We basically have CONFERENCES which are independent but fall under the general auspices of the NCAA.

Conferences have their own individual television contracts, distribute as the see fit, schedule as they see fit, etc.

Yes, but you have to believe that the supreme court decision and other pending litigation will have a "trickle-down" effect on the various conferences, even though they are technically independent entities. If the NCAA can't fight this impending tidal wave, what chance do the B1G, SEC, and all the other conferences have in fending off these challenges?

The NCAA needs to "man up" and construct an effective sports organization. Emmert and his ilk need to go bye-bye, they have no experience operating with a P&L statement and consistently look like the "gang that can't shoot straight".

First, they need destroy the model where conferences make their own rules. The NCAA is the governing body of collegiate athletics and needs to start acting like it. The NFL has strict salary cap rules for all of its members, it does not allow just the AFC to exceed that. It also distributes television contract evenly among its members. There are clear and defined standards for ALL in their league.

Second, the NCAA, by all means should require that all participating athletes be offered lifetime free tuition and healthcare for injuries sustained during their college careers.

Third, they need to go to congress and explain why they need an anti-trust exemption as schools compete ONLY on the field and are true business partners. Once you accomplish the prior objectives, this is doable, the pros have already done it and once granted Kavanaugh's comments about business practices would be moot.

Do I expect that the P5 programs will resist any such change? Hell yes! They will probably threaten to leave the NCAA and create their own "super league". I would be willing to stare them down, the prospect of NIL and paying players is going to do that anyway.

the NCAA acts like all its member institutions are equal. Alabama and Concordia Ann Arbor are both member institutions but they OBVIOUSLY arent equal.

I think the big change youll see if 60 or so football schools will form their own division (like the split between 1-AA and 1-A).

I think you have an error on your facts: NCAA and NAIA are different organizations. Concordia and many of our non D-I MBB opponents are NAIA members.

The NCAA is a federation or umbrella organization of members. This is very different than say the NFL. Mark Emmert is not a commissioner like Roger Goodell.

I think the correct way to understand it is:

Individual schools (most) are members of conferences. Conferences handle most issues of governance, consistent with rules and regulations of the NCAA.

Individual conferences can negotiate conference wide television, media, scheduling, bowls, etc. rights contract for the benefit of their members. I believe this was settled in court during the 80s. Before that individual schools had their own media (TV) rights.

This is why there is no 'revenue sharing' BETWEEN conferences.

Another way to look at it: UofM and MSU are business partners as are the Lions and Patriots. UofM and EMU are not business partners.

(06-27-2021 06:54 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  

(06-27-2021 06:05 PM)emu79 Wrote:  

(06-27-2021 09:28 AM)emu steve Wrote:  Not to go O/T, but the real injustice in sports is minor league baseball.

Those guys are paid starvation wages even though they are professionals in all senses of the word.

Most did not get big signing bonuses and literally are living 'hand to mouth.' MLB has done too little to help them. Many are career players who are necessary because for every Riley Greene, Torkelson, etc. there have to be others on the lineup card who probably will never make the big leagues. They are living a dream which probably won't come true.

Isn't that true of most minor leagues regardless of sports?

Steve, once again, makes a bulletproof point with respect to logic. This is a situation we all wish could be better.

That said, the NFL and NBA minor leagues have nowhere near the network of the MLB with respect to the minor leagues. The Spring Football League, that Matt Sexton played in only provides room and board to it participants. The NBA G League is far more lucrative but provides a microscopic footprint in comparison to to MLB.

Most MLB minor league players are employed as Steve says, to provide game opportunities for true prospects. They make peanuts for a salary and are needlessly postponing their long term career prospects. At first glance they are indeed exploited.

At the end of the day, however, the USA is a free country. A 21 year old is able to pursue his dream of a professional baseball career, no matter how glim those prospects might be. He also enjoys the opportunity to play competitive baseball in the minor leagues while he still is physically capable of doing so. Baseball, after all is not golf. I was not a NCAA star baseball player but if not for the big staple in my shoulder, I would have welcomed the chance to play in the minor leagues.

Steve is an intelligent and compassionate guy like Dan, with a great on its face argument. Unfortunately in their genuine zest to improve athletes situations, by paying NCCA players or improving MLB minor league salaries, the likely result will be the unintended consequences of contracting opportunities for said athletes. Less NCCA scholarships and less MLB minor league teams.

I should have done my homework on Concordia. You're right - they are NAIA. But there are plenty of NCAA Division III schools in michigan like Kalamazoo College, Adrian, Alma, Albion etc:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_I...ssociation

I agree 100% that minor league baseball players are totally screwed by the system and shame on the US government for allowing baseball to underpay those guys through a series of legal loop holes.

(06-27-2021 06:54 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  

(06-27-2021 06:05 PM)emu79 Wrote:  

(06-27-2021 09:28 AM)emu steve Wrote:  Not to go O/T, but the real injustice in sports is minor league baseball.

Those guys are paid starvation wages even though they are professionals in all senses of the word.

Most did not get big signing bonuses and literally are living 'hand to mouth.' MLB has done too little to help them. Many are career players who are necessary because for every Riley Greene, Torkelson, etc. there have to be others on the lineup card who probably will never make the big leagues. They are living a dream which probably won't come true.

Isn't that true of most minor leagues regardless of sports?

Steve, once again, makes a bulletproof point with respect to logic. This is a situation we all wish could be better.

That said, the NFL and NBA minor leagues have nowhere near the network of the MLB with respect to the minor leagues. The Spring Football League, that Matt Sexton played in only provides room and board to it participants. The NBA G League is far more lucrative but provides a microscopic footprint in comparison to to MLB.

Most MLB minor league players are employed as Steve says, to provide game opportunities for true prospects. They make peanuts for a salary and are needlessly postponing their long term career prospects. At first glance they are indeed exploited.

At the end of the day, however, the USA is a free country. A 21 year old is able to pursue his dream of a professional baseball career, no matter how glim those prospects might be. He also enjoys the opportunity to play competitive baseball in the minor leagues while he still is physically capable of doing so. Baseball, after all is not golf. I was not a NCAA star baseball player but if not for the big staple in my shoulder, I would have welcomed the chance to play in the minor leagues.

Steve is an intelligent and compassionate guy like Dan, with a great on its face argument. Unfortunately in their genuine zest to improve athletes situations, by paying NCCA players or improving MLB minor league salaries, the likely result will be the unintended consequences of contracting opportunities for said athletes. Less NCCA scholarships and less MLB minor league teams.

You forgot minor league hockey.

To put in perspective there are millions of college students who work in retail and service industries to work to help pay college costs and take out debt to get their degrees. Ditto those who support families pay their own room and board and medical care.
Just making sure we talk about exploitation it comes in all forms everyday in millions of American lives.

(06-28-2021 07:54 AM)emu79 Wrote:  

(06-27-2021 06:54 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  

(06-27-2021 06:05 PM)emu79 Wrote:  

(06-27-2021 09:28 AM)emu steve Wrote:  Not to go O/T, but the real injustice in sports is minor league baseball.

Those guys are paid starvation wages even though they are professionals in all senses of the word.

Most did not get big signing bonuses and literally are living 'hand to mouth.' MLB has done too little to help them. Many are career players who are necessary because for every Riley Greene, Torkelson, etc. there have to be others on the lineup card who probably will never make the big leagues. They are living a dream which probably won't come true.

Isn't that true of most minor leagues regardless of sports?

Steve, once again, makes a bulletproof point with respect to logic. This is a situation we all wish could be better.

That said, the NFL and NBA minor leagues have nowhere near the network of the MLB with respect to the minor leagues. The Spring Football League, that Matt Sexton played in only provides room and board to it participants. The NBA G League is far more lucrative but provides a microscopic footprint in comparison to to MLB.

Most MLB minor league players are employed as Steve says, to provide game opportunities for true prospects. They make peanuts for a salary and are needlessly postponing their long term career prospects. At first glance they are indeed exploited.

At the end of the day, however, the USA is a free country. A 21 year old is able to pursue his dream of a professional baseball career, no matter how glim those prospects might be. He also enjoys the opportunity to play competitive baseball in the minor leagues while he still is physically capable of doing so. Baseball, after all is not golf. I was not a NCAA star baseball player but if not for the big staple in my shoulder, I would have welcomed the chance to play in the minor leagues.

Steve is an intelligent and compassionate guy like Dan, with a great on its face argument. Unfortunately in their genuine zest to improve athletes situations, by paying NCCA players or improving MLB minor league salaries, the likely result will be the unintended consequences of contracting opportunities for said athletes. Less NCCA scholarships and less MLB minor league teams.

You forgot minor league hockey.

(06-28-2021 08:09 AM)emu79 Wrote:  To put in perspective there are millions of college students who work in retail and service industries to work to help pay college costs and take out debt to get their degrees. Ditto those who support families pay their own room and board and medical care.
Just making sure we talk about exploitation it comes in all forms everyday in millions of American lives.

Look the scope of this thread is the changing / emerging economic shifts in player rights and compensation at the NCAA level - not all economic realities facing new college students.

BUT if you want revisit these points: average college students dont generate income for the university like football players and average college students dont have limits on making money on their Names, Image, and Likeness rights. average college students and barter their value at jobs and join unions.

(06-28-2021 08:18 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  

(06-28-2021 07:54 AM)emu79 Wrote:  

(06-27-2021 06:54 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  

(06-27-2021 06:05 PM)emu79 Wrote:  

(06-27-2021 09:28 AM)emu steve Wrote:  Not to go O/T, but the real injustice in sports is minor league baseball.

Those guys are paid starvation wages even though they are professionals in all senses of the word.

Most did not get big signing bonuses and literally are living 'hand to mouth.' MLB has done too little to help them. Many are career players who are necessary because for every Riley Greene, Torkelson, etc. there have to be others on the lineup card who probably will never make the big leagues. They are living a dream which probably won't come true.

Isn't that true of most minor leagues regardless of sports?

Steve, once again, makes a bulletproof point with respect to logic. This is a situation we all wish could be better.

That said, the NFL and NBA minor leagues have nowhere near the network of the MLB with respect to the minor leagues. The Spring Football League, that Matt Sexton played in only provides room and board to it participants. The NBA G League is far more lucrative but provides a microscopic footprint in comparison to to MLB.

Most MLB minor league players are employed as Steve says, to provide game opportunities for true prospects. They make peanuts for a salary and are needlessly postponing their long term career prospects. At first glance they are indeed exploited.

At the end of the day, however, the USA is a free country. A 21 year old is able to pursue his dream of a professional baseball career, no matter how glim those prospects might be. He also enjoys the opportunity to play competitive baseball in the minor leagues while he still is physically capable of doing so. Baseball, after all is not golf. I was not a NCAA star baseball player but if not for the big staple in my shoulder, I would have welcomed the chance to play in the minor leagues.

Steve is an intelligent and compassionate guy like Dan, with a great on its face argument. Unfortunately in their genuine zest to improve athletes situations, by paying NCCA players or improving MLB minor league salaries, the likely result will be the unintended consequences of contracting opportunities for said athletes. Less NCCA scholarships and less MLB minor league teams.

You forgot minor league hockey.

(06-28-2021 08:09 AM)emu79 Wrote:  To put in perspective there are millions of college students who work in retail and service industries to work to help pay college costs and take out debt to get their degrees. Ditto those who support families pay their own room and board and medical care.
Just making sure we talk about exploitation it comes in all forms everyday in millions of American lives.

Look the scope of this thread is the changing / emerging economic shifts in player rights and compensation at the NCAA level - not all economic realities facing new college students.

BUT if you want revisit these points: average college students dont generate income for the university like football players and average college students dont have limits on making money on their Names, Image, and Likeness rights. average college students and barter their value at jobs and join unions.

The average student doesn't incur more expenses than revenue like college sports does Dan but guess what they get to pay part of the. sports shortfall through higher tuition. What,a deal. Talk about being exploited.