Yermin Mercedes homers on a 3-0 pitch vs a position player in a blowout.





LaRussa throws his guy under the bus (perhaps to get the Twins not to retaliate). Duffey gets called on to bean Yermin in relief.





Duffey gets 3 game suspension.

(05-21-2021 08:42 AM)jellowl Wrote:  Yermin Mercedes homers on a 3-0 pitch vs a position player in a blowout.





LaRussa throws his guy under the bus (perhaps to get the Twins not to retaliate). Duffey gets called on to bean Yermin in relief.





Duffey gets 3 game suspension.

First, LaRussa's an idiot!!! Player who hit HR was toiling in independent ball last year. When organizations negotiate salaries they bring up STATS as a way to depress player value then call them out when they go up there to pad same stats!!! Also, if you throw a position player you get what you get!!! If you don't want them to hit the ball (their job) then DON'T THROW A POISTION PLAYER TO PITCH!!!. I could care less what the count is!!! 3-0, 1-2 whatever. Secondly, retaliation was ridiculous on the other side. YOU HAD A POSITON PLAYER PITCH!!! What did you expect. Duffey should not have done it but I absolutely understand why he had to. Both managers are numbnuts and with LaRussa the king numbnut!!

I just hope they take care of his fines/losses in some way.

LaRussa is "old school" from 20-40 years ago (funny how that's "old"). When he was hired, there were questions about his ability to relate to modern players. This would appear to be one example.

I don't fault Duffey (had to do as ordered), but La Russa's reaction is lame. If you want to school the guy on an "unwritten rule," do so privately. Gotta think the players aren't happy about the manager throwing Mercedes under the bus in public.

Personally, go for it. These are professionals. If folks are gonna get that upset about homering off of a position player, Minnesota should've just forfeited.

IMHO, having a position player throwing 47 mph pitches is about 1000 times more disrespectful to the game than swinging 3-0 in a blowout.

(05-21-2021 12:32 PM)MJY Wrote:  IMHO, having a position player throwing 47 mph pitches is about 1000 times more disrespectful to the game than swinging 3-0 in a blowout.

YES!!!!!

A bit harsh for Tyler IMO. That pitch was behind the hitter, but was low and slow. No real threat to the hitter. Just a message.

My understanding was that the player was given a sign not to swing. Moreover, he was told from the dugout not to swing. His instructions were clear. He ignored both.

Baseball is a team sport. Baseball teams have managers. Managers are there for a reason. If you want to be an individual take up tennis or boxing or golf.

Do you really think this guy is going to tout the fact that he hit a homerun on a 3-0 pitch from a positional player on a take sign when his team was up 15-4 in the top of the ninth?

I personally would have pulled the guy as soon as he touched home plate and sent him to the clubhouse.

If you have a problem with that I doubt you ever played a team sport. I doubt you ever played baseball. I seriously doubt you ever managed at anytime at any level any sport.

From what I've heard on the internet, La Russa had no problem with the Duffey pitch. It was clearly not meant to hurt the player.

What do you think Wayne Graham would have done if a player ignored his instructions?

(05-21-2021 04:29 PM)MerseyOwl Wrote:  My understanding was that the player was given a sign not to swing. Moreover, he was told from the dugout not to swing. His instructions were clear. He ignored both.

Baseball is a team sport. Baseball teams have managers. Managers are there for a reason. If you want to be an individual take up tennis or boxing or golf.

Do you really think this guy is going to tout the fact that he hit a homerun on a 3-0 pitch from a positional player on a take sign when his team was up 15-4 in the top of the ninth?

I personally would have pulled the guy as soon as he touched home plate and sent him to the clubhouse.

If you have a problem with that I doubt you ever played a team sport. I doubt you ever played baseball. I seriously doubt you ever managed at anytime at any level any sport.

From what I've heard on the internet, La Russa had no problem with the Duffey pitch. It was clearly not meant to hurt the player.

What do you think Wayne Graham would have done if a player ignored his instructions?

I have played the sport and this is NOT college baseball. LaRussa should’ve run a relief pitcher out there to counter the position player pitching if it was that big of a deal to just sit up there and not swing. Tired of the unwritten rules. No one was shown up to require Duffy to take the bullet. Do you really think the position pitcher cared that he got lit up. Was he expecting to K the side?!! Not likely.

(05-21-2021 10:54 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  LaRussa is "old school" from 20-40 years ago (funny how that's "old"). When he was hired, there were questions about his ability to relate to modern players. This would appear to be one example.

You're being generous to the 76-year-old LaRussa. He actually made his MLB debut as an 18-year-old in 1963 (coincidentally, that was also the year Wayne Graham made his MLB debut). And he began his managerial career with the White Sox in 1979, so I think you can say he's old school from 40-60 years ago.

(05-21-2021 04:46 PM)Musicowl1965 Wrote:  

(05-21-2021 04:29 PM)MerseyOwl Wrote:  My understanding was that the player was given a sign not to swing. Moreover, he was told from the dugout not to swing. His instructions were clear. He ignored both.

Baseball is a team sport. Baseball teams have managers. Managers are there for a reason. If you want to be an individual take up tennis or boxing or golf.

Do you really think this guy is going to tout the fact that he hit a homerun on a 3-0 pitch from a positional player on a take sign when his team was up 15-4 in the top of the ninth?

I personally would have pulled the guy as soon as he touched home plate and sent him to the clubhouse.

If you have a problem with that I doubt you ever played a team sport. I doubt you ever played baseball. I seriously doubt you ever managed at anytime at any level any sport.

From what I've heard on the internet, La Russa had no problem with the Duffey pitch. It was clearly not meant to hurt the player.

What do you think Wayne Graham would have done if a player ignored his instructions?

I have played the sport and this is NOT college baseball. LaRussa should’ve run a relief pitcher out there to counter the position player pitching if it was that big of a deal to just sit up there and not swing. Tired of the unwritten rules. No one was shown up to require Duffy to take the bullet. Do you really think the position pitcher cared that he got lit up. Was he expecting to K the side?!! Not likely.

You're right this isn't college baseball. I never said it was. But you ignore the fact that the CWS hitter, Mercedes, ignored the instructions he was given.

You're not suggesting La Russa should have pinch hit Mercedes with a relief pitcher in the ninth inning are you? Why on Earth would anyone do that?

It was the Twins manager's decision to pitch the positional player. Why would anyone burn an arm when you're eleven runs behind in the ninth inning? So I have no problem having a positional player pitch in a blowout. It happens several times a season.

It was also the Twins manager's decision to have Duffey throw the lollipop bean ball at Mercedes the following night. I think the intent was clear and the home plate umpire should have given Duffey a warning and only a warning. Had he come back with something with a little more velocity and in the same area code as the batter, then he should be ejected.

You obviously have a different perspective than I do on team management and sportsmanship.

(05-21-2021 06:01 PM)MerseyOwl Wrote:  

(05-21-2021 04:46 PM)Musicowl1965 Wrote:  

(05-21-2021 04:29 PM)MerseyOwl Wrote:  My understanding was that the player was given a sign not to swing. Moreover, he was told from the dugout not to swing. His instructions were clear. He ignored both.

Baseball is a team sport. Baseball teams have managers. Managers are there for a reason. If you want to be an individual take up tennis or boxing or golf.

Do you really think this guy is going to tout the fact that he hit a homerun on a 3-0 pitch from a positional player on a take sign when his team was up 15-4 in the top of the ninth?

I personally would have pulled the guy as soon as he touched home plate and sent him to the clubhouse.

If you have a problem with that I doubt you ever played a team sport. I doubt you ever played baseball. I seriously doubt you ever managed at anytime at any level any sport.

From what I've heard on the internet, La Russa had no problem with the Duffey pitch. It was clearly not meant to hurt the player.

What do you think Wayne Graham would have done if a player ignored his instructions?

I have played the sport and this is NOT college baseball. LaRussa should’ve run a relief pitcher out there to counter the position player pitching if it was that big of a deal to just sit up there and not swing. Tired of the unwritten rules. No one was shown up to require Duffy to take the bullet. Do you really think the position pitcher cared that he got lit up. Was he expecting to K the side?!! Not likely.

You're right this isn't college baseball. I never said it was. But you ignore the fact that the CWS hitter, Mercedes, ignored the instructions he was given.

You're not suggesting La Russa should have pinch hit Mercedes with a relief pitcher in the ninth inning are you? Why on Earth would anyone do that?

It was the Twins manager's decision to pitch the positional player. Why would anyone burn an arm when you're eleven runs behind in the ninth inning? So I have no problem having a positional player pitch in a blowout. It happens several times a season.

It was also the Twins manager's decision to have Duffey throw the lollipop bean ball at Mercedes the following night. I think the intent was clear and the home plate umpire should have given Duffey a warning and only a warning. Had he come back with something with a little more velocity and in the same area code as the batter, then he should be ejected.

You obviously have a different perspective than I do on team management and sportsmanship.

The college comparison you made was "What do you think Wayne Graham would have done if a player ignored his instructions?" My response was this is not college baseball. If WG said to take 4 pitches and don't swing then that is what a "college" player should do. In the big leagues different story for reasons I previously listed. And yes if LaRussa's intent was to never swing in that situation why not have some fun and let pitcher hit or for that matter just go up there and intentionally strike out. Then no need for Twins retaliation (which was ridiculous either way) Maybe there should be a run rule in MLB so that we can avoid these managers getting their panties in a wad (both sides). Obviously I do not think this but you get my point. The players are competitors to the extreme. That is why they are there. Throw a meatball and expect it in the upper decks. So yes, I have a different management style than you and it has nothing to do with sportsmanship. Play the game hard until the end. If the score is 25-0 then so be it. Be better!! They aren't 9 year olds. Pro players understand sportsmanship and this was not unsportsmanlike. You could say, disrespectful to LaRussa but that is another argument but then don't use my stats against me when salary negotiations come up (as mentioned before). So because of this a (former Rice) pitcher is suspended for 3 games, which I believe, are game checks all because a pitcher threw a lollipop and a hitter did what a hitter is supposed to do.