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Oakland A's to explore relocation
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Oakland A's to explore relocation
(06-08-2021 12:08 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(06-08-2021 02:30 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(06-07-2021 10:04 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(06-07-2021 07:56 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Actually, the Brewers requested to move to the NL. However, it should not have been at the Astros expense.

Selig manipulated AL/NL alignment to move the Brewers to the NL in 1998. Then, when the owners and the players decided they wanted each league and division to have the same number of teams, requiring one team to move from the NL to the AL, Selig forced the Astros to move to the AL in 2013 so that the Brewers didn't have to move back.

The 90s were a strange time.

If they wanted the Brewers in the NL so bad, which made some sense, then why not just place both the Diamondbacks and the Rays in the AL?

Would have made sense to put Arizona in the AL and have 4 western teams in each league, and with Tampa Bay also in the AL, one Florida team in each league.

Maybe the clubs had already decided that each league should get one expansion team, and because the D-backs and Rays were added before there was interleague play they wanted an even number of teams in each league, and Selig saw his opportunity/excuse to move his team into the NL to make it 14 in the AL and 16 in the NL.

The way that Selig forced the Astros to switch leagues was sleazy.

Interleague play began the year before the D-backs and Rays joined.
06-09-2021 10:24 PM
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Oakland A's to explore relocation
Teams that land in Oakland have long histories of relocating (# of different cities): A's (3), Warriors (3), Raiders (3), Golden Seals (3; went defunct after becoming the Cleveland Barons)

Most per league (# of different cities; active franchises only):
NHL (3): New Jersey Devils < Colorado Rockies < Kansas City Scouts
NBA (4.5): Sacramento Kings < Kansas City Kings < Kansas City-Omaha Kings < Cincinnati Royals < Rochester Royals
NFL (4.5): Arizona/Phoenix Cardinals < St. Louis Cardinals < Chicago Cardinals < (Chicago-Pittsburgh) Card-Pitt < Racine Cardinals
MLB (3): [3 franchises]
- Atlanta Braves < Milwaukee Braves < Boston Braves (and other names)
- Baltimore Orioles < St. Louis Browns < Milwaukee Brewers
- Oakland Athletics < Kansas City Athletics < Philadelphia Athletics

I'd like to see the A's stay in the Bay Area and rebrand as the California A's.
06-10-2021 03:41 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Oakland A's to explore relocation
(06-10-2021 03:41 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  Teams that land in Oakland have long histories of relocating (# of different cities): A's (3), Warriors (3), Raiders (3), Golden Seals (3; went defunct after becoming the Cleveland Barons)

Most per league (# of different cities; active franchises only):
NHL (3): New Jersey Devils < Colorado Rockies < Kansas City Scouts
NBA (4.5): Sacramento Kings < Kansas City Kings < Kansas City-Omaha Kings < Cincinnati Royals < Rochester Royals
NFL (4.5): Arizona/Phoenix Cardinals < St. Louis Cardinals < Chicago Cardinals < (Chicago-Pittsburgh) Card-Pitt < Racine Cardinals
MLB (3): [3 franchises]
- Atlanta Braves < Milwaukee Braves < Boston Braves (and other names)
- Baltimore Orioles < St. Louis Browns < Milwaukee Brewers
- Oakland Athletics < Kansas City Athletics < Philadelphia Athletics

I'd like to see the A's stay in the Bay Area and rebrand as the California A's.

The Cardinals in reality are only three.

Racine doesn't refer to the city in Wisconsin, but a street in Chicago.

The Chicago-Pittsburgh was a one year contraction due to WWII.
06-14-2021 12:22 PM
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Transic_nyc Online
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Post: #44
RE: Oakland A's to explore relocation
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...w-ballpark

Quote:The Oakland Athletics should commit to staying in the city for at least four decades in exchange for public financing to help build infrastructure for a new waterfront stadium, officials said.

The city administrator’s office on Friday released an outline of recommended provisions that should be included in any stadium deal. The city’s proposal should steer fewer future tax dollars to the project than the team has proposed and require the A’s to commit to stay as long as taxpayer money is tied to the development, according to the outline. The recommendations will be presented to a city council committee on Wednesday.

Quote:The city’s guidelines include the creation around the ballpark of a single infrastructure financing district, which could sell debt that would be paid off by the extra property-tax revenue thrown off by the development. The team has called for two taxing districts. The city’s proposal would tie up fewer future tax dollars than what the A’s had proposed.

“Today’s report shows how we can structure a development deal that protects our taxpayers, ensures our beloved A’s stay rooted in Oakland, and creates a transformative waterfront project that will benefit generations to come,” said Mayor Libby Schaaf in an emailed statement.

“We believe that only the tax revenues generated by the ballpark development itself should be used to invest in the project’s much-needed public infrastructure and community benefits, in a way that never puts the city or county’s general funds at risk.”

It looks like the contours of a deal are emerging. Of course, we'll have to wait to see what the A's and the Oakland city council would say but, if today's info is to be believed, the A's are inching closer to staying than to leaving.
07-02-2021 07:54 PM
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Transic_nyc Online
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Post: #45
RE: Oakland A's to explore relocation
Quote:Oakland A’s President Dave Kaval said meetings yesterday and today in Vegas were encouraging. The team is already planning their next Vegas trip on Jul 21-22, the day after the Oakland City Council’s vote on their term sheet for the Howard Terminal site. #vegas #mlb #RiseAndGrind

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1413632874125746180

Read it how you wish. Oakland doesn't have much leverage here. I don't know if major league baseball can work in Las Vegas. However, it doesn't seem to be stop LV people from being willing to be used as stalking horses for the A's.

Also: https://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/bas...k-2396397/
07-09-2021 09:18 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Oakland A's to explore relocation
(07-09-2021 09:18 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  
Quote:Oakland A’s President Dave Kaval said meetings yesterday and today in Vegas were encouraging. The team is already planning their next Vegas trip on Jul 21-22, the day after the Oakland City Council’s vote on their term sheet for the Howard Terminal site. #vegas #mlb #RiseAndGrind

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1413632874125746180

Read it how you wish. Oakland doesn't have much leverage here. I don't know if major league baseball can work in Las Vegas. However, it doesn't seem to be stop LV people from being willing to be used as stalking horses for the A's.

Also: https://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/bas...k-2396397/

No MLB in Vegas please. Try a less flighty market, A's.
07-09-2021 09:22 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Oakland A's to explore relocation
Silicon Valley types would call the A's ballpark proposal "vaporware" -- a product that has been announced but not yet built and likely never will be built. It isn't and never was a realistic proposal.

This guy has been following various A's ballpark proposals for many years, and this is his latest take on where it's going:

https://newballpark.org/2021/07/08/lets-take-stock/
Quote:All I know is that this project has now come up in three separate major public hearings in the last two months: the Oakland Planning Commission, the Alameda County Board of Supervisors, and now the Oakland City Council. In every venue there was serious tension and rancor between the governing body and the applicant (the A’s). You’re not going to just wipe it away by calling it negotiation. This is much deeper than mere negotiation. The City and the A’s appear to be at cross purposes, and if you throw the County into the mix, all three are.
07-10-2021 02:45 PM
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Renandpat Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Oakland A's to explore relocation
(07-10-2021 02:45 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Silicon Valley types would call the A's ballpark proposal "vaporware" -- a product that has been announced but not yet built and likely never will be built. It isn't and never was a realistic proposal.

This guy has been following various A's ballpark proposals for many years, and this is his latest take on where it's going:

https://newballpark.org/2021/07/08/lets-take-stock/
Quote:All I know is that this project has now come up in three separate major public hearings in the last two months: the Oakland Planning Commission, the Alameda County Board of Supervisors, and now the Oakland City Council. In every venue there was serious tension and rancor between the governing body and the applicant (the A’s). You’re not going to just wipe it away by calling it negotiation. This is much deeper than mere negotiation. The City and the A’s appear to be at cross purposes, and if you throw the County into the mix, all three are.

"Marine Layer" and his blog has been outstanding in chronicling the years and the various options from Fremont to if the AAA stadium in South Sacramento could be expanded.

I will say that the only item Oakland has in its favor is the possible $1B relocation fee Fisher would have to pay to get out.
07-10-2021 03:38 PM
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GoodOwl Offline
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Post: #49
Question RE: Oakland A's to explore relocation
[Image: 15359459_web1_BBA-Oakland-JULY18-21-005.jpg?crop=1]

Graney: Public-private details key in A’s desire to relocate

Quote:“If you look at where we are in Oakland,” said A’s president Dave Kaval, “we’re in the bottom of the ninth inning.”

Countered one person intimately involved with the talks here: “If that’s the case, they just got to home plate to exchange lineups in Las Vegas.”

While a July 20 date looms in which a non-binding vote from council members in Oakland should take place on whether to approve the team’s proposal to build a new stadium as part of a $12 billion Howard Terminal waterfront project, you can still define progress here as a baby taking his first steps. That could quickly translate to a sprint should things fall apart for good in the Bay Area. Symmetry doesn’t exist in tales of relocation. What occurs in one municipality isn’t perfectly arranged around some contrived axis with another.
07-11-2021 02:18 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Oakland A's to explore relocation
Barring a dramatic realignment, logic would dictate that the As need to stay West of the Mississippi, giving these cities as the possible landing spots:

Portland
Salt Lake City
Sacramento
Las Vegas (too crowded IMHO)
San Antonio/Austin
New Orleans

A third AL team in Texas might be intriguing. I can also see a Seattle/Portland rivalry be a compelling reason to move them there.
07-11-2021 04:19 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Oakland A's to explore relocation
(07-11-2021 02:18 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  Graney: Public-private details key in A’s desire to relocate

"Public-private details" = "How many taxpayer dollars are you going to give our billionaire if he moves/keeps his team here?"
07-11-2021 07:51 PM
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DawgNBama Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Oakland A's to explore relocation
One important thing to remember here is how many home dates an MLB team has: 81. Unlike the Raiders who could draw fans from the outskirts of Los Angeles, if not from LA itself, IMHO, the A's couldn't do that on a regular basis because baseball is played over several days, not just one game a week. That's why I'm not too keen on Las Vegas as being an option for the A's.

Now Portland, on the other hand, wouldn't have to rely on a distant metro to pump up a team's attendance, IMO, because Portland is not built as a tourist mecca like Las Vegas is. The Raiders can make Las Vegas work because they can market themselves to suburbs on LA's outskirts to come to the game in a week. Could the Raiders do that if they had to play night after night in the same week??? No, IMHO.

The Las Vegas Golden Knights are different from MLB as well in that they have a much smaller arena to fill up (20,000 max probably) compared to a 30,000 to 40,000 seat baseball stadium.

To me, the A's choices are either stay in Oakland or move to Portland, Oregon.
(This post was last modified: 07-14-2021 12:54 AM by DawgNBama.)
07-14-2021 12:51 AM
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Erictelevision Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Oakland A's to explore relocation
If they did move to Portland, would they need a retractable roof?
07-14-2021 02:29 AM
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Oakland A's to explore relocation
(07-14-2021 12:51 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  One important thing to remember here is how many home dates an MLB team has: 81. Unlike the Raiders who could draw fans from the outskirts of Los Angeles, if not from LA itself, IMHO, the A's couldn't do that on a regular basis because baseball is played over several days, not just one game a week. That's why I'm not too keen on Las Vegas as being an option for the A's.

Now Portland, on the other hand, wouldn't have to rely on a distant metro to pump up a team's attendance, IMO, because Portland is not built as a tourist mecca like Las Vegas is. The Raiders can make Las Vegas work because they can market themselves to suburbs on LA's outskirts to come to the game in a week. Could the Raiders do that if they had to play night after night in the same week??? No, IMHO.

The Las Vegas Golden Knights are different from MLB as well in that they have a much smaller arena to fill up (20,000 max probably) compared to a 30,000 to 40,000 seat baseball stadium.

To me, the A's choices are either stay in Oakland or move to Portland, Oregon.

I like the idea of Portland
07-14-2021 11:34 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Oakland A's to explore relocation
IMO that article a few posts above tells us why ownership is focusing on Las Vegas rather than Portland -- they see how much public money was poured into the Raiders' stadium and they think they can get that kind of "contribution" to an MLB ballpark as well.
07-14-2021 11:45 AM
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DawgNBama Offline
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Post: #56
Oakland A's to explore relocation
If Las Vegas is smart, they won't agree to this.

Portland plans for the A's was to have the owner put up some money (not all, but some) and the rest would be covered by public bonds to be repaid by a tax on all MLB players playing in the stadium. The players howled and protested against this, but regardless of where the A's go, those ballplayers are going to be taxed by the federal, state, and local governments anyway. The money would just be used for other things.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk
(This post was last modified: 07-14-2021 02:18 PM by DawgNBama.)
07-14-2021 02:17 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Oakland A's to explore relocation
In addition to squeezing out as much public money as possible, I think potential new ownership groups in each place is a big factor in Fisher's thinking.

Why? Because I think Fisher's medium-term goal is to sell the franchise *after* increasing its value by getting it a brand new ballpark. Bud Selig did this in Milwaukee. He used his office to get the Brewers into the NL, where they get many home games vs. the Cubs and Cardinals, then cajoled local politicians into enacting a tax that generated $605 million to fund construction and operation of a new ballpark. After that, Bud sold the Brewers.

My guess is that Fisher sees more potential for a lucrative sale in Oakland or Las Vegas than in Portland. The Warriors' owner has said he'd be interested in buying the A's if Fisher ever sells. Probably there is also enough money floating around Vegas to buy the team as well.
07-14-2021 03:11 PM
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Transic_nyc Online
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Post: #58
RE: Oakland A's to explore relocation
If you're in the mood for a head-scratching experience, check out the latest article from Marine Layer on the term sheet from the city of Oakland and how it was received over the past day.

https://newballpark.org/2021/07/17/how-t...ort-hours/
07-17-2021 07:22 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Oakland A's to explore relocation
Ray Ratto describes A's management perfectly.

https://defector.com/the-as-get-no-respe...ne-either/
Quote:Owner John Fisher doesn’t exist as an ethereal face of venality without the power to achieve actual evil, and his spokesman, Dave Kaval, is mostly a shouty carnival barker trying to lure people inside his company’s tent with rancid popcorn and flat beer “because we’re us, and you owe us respect.” Fisher is a trout-impersonating failson whose only tactical play in any public situation is, “Yeah, but I’m me, so get lost,” and Kaval is Fredo Corleone with a wind-up toy of a circus monkey playing cymbals where his relatability and improvisational skills should reside. They’re the people in the bar trying to convince you to buy them a drink and then start a one-way conversation with you about themselves even as you’re trying to pay your tab and back out toward the exit.
(This post was last modified: 07-21-2021 09:26 PM by Wedge.)
07-21-2021 09:23 PM
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