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3300 Deaths from Covid Vaccine since December
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Redwingtom Offline
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Post: #181
RE: 3300 Deaths from Covid Vaccine since December
(05-11-2021 02:58 PM)VA49er Wrote:  
(05-11-2021 02:48 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(05-11-2021 02:39 PM)VA49er Wrote:  
(05-11-2021 02:11 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(05-11-2021 02:05 PM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  I think there's a difference between vaccine hesitant and vaccine resistant. It sounds to me like people who are in the former camp are more or less on the fence regarding obtaining the vaccine. They're a group that the medical community can try to persuade into actually receiving a shot.

The latter group seems hell bent on not taking the vaccine whatsoever. And from the cited poll, that seems to be comprised of mostly republicans.

Yup...correct. 03-wink

I don't pay much attention to all the reasons folks say a certain group does or doesn't take the vaccine. I received my second shot today and in the waiting room there were 10 people. Half of them were black, the other four white and one hispanic. I believe what I see.

Awesome...good to see. I get it...but you can't just look at one situation.

Oh, I know. Also can't whole-heartedly discount it since it doesn't fit a narrative. I believe what I see with my own eyes, not what I see on TV or read on biased news sites.

I was just thinking too...I live in a decent sized city and I don't think I saw more than 3 or 4 minorities the two times I was there to get my shots. And neither were black.
05-11-2021 03:48 PM
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Bronco'14 Offline
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Post: #182
RE: 3300 Deaths from Covid Vaccine since December
I got the vaccine. I thinks it's largely a placebo, I don't think it'll bring an end to the pandemic, but I still got it.

It's really not the end of the world getting it, guys.
(This post was last modified: 05-11-2021 06:42 PM by Bronco'14.)
05-11-2021 06:40 PM
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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Post: #183
RE: 3300 Deaths from Covid Vaccine since December
(05-11-2021 06:40 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  I got the vaccine. I thinks it's largely a placebo, I don't think it'll bring an end to the pandemic, but I still got it.

It's really not the end of the world getting it, guys.


Yet people act like its the end of the world if you just ask basic common sense questions or show any possible negative news on it. At the same time the government and media act like communists burying and censoring ANY basic questions or possible negative stories.

That does not give people confidence in theses vaccines, its raises eyebrows and twice as much suspicion.

Honest governments and media that are actually looking out for regular every day Americans DO NOT act this way.

Marxists, communists and fascists act this way.
(This post was last modified: 05-11-2021 06:56 PM by ericsrevenge76.)
05-11-2021 06:54 PM
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BartlettTigerFan Offline
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Post: #184
RE: 3300 Deaths from Covid Vaccine since December
(05-11-2021 06:40 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  I got the vaccine. I thinks it's largely a placebo, I don't think it'll bring an end to the pandemic, but I still got it.

It's really not the end of the world getting it, guys.

That kinda remains to be seen.
05-11-2021 07:29 PM
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GrayBeard Offline
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Post: #185
RE: 3300 Deaths from Covid Vaccine since December
At this point, with as little as we know about the vaccines and their long term effects or effectiveness, I’ll wait.
05-11-2021 07:40 PM
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TigerBlue4Ever Offline
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Post: #186
RE: 3300 Deaths from Covid Vaccine since December
(05-11-2021 07:29 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  
(05-11-2021 06:40 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  I got the vaccine. I thinks it's largely a placebo, I don't think it'll bring an end to the pandemic, but I still got it.

It's really not the end of the world getting it, guys.

That kinda remains to be seen.

yeah, too soon to know anything...
05-11-2021 08:31 PM
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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Post: #187
RE: 3300 Deaths from Covid Vaccine since December
Quote:The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) has been misleading the general public on how often the data shows the novel coronavirus spreading from person-to-person in outdoor settings, The New York Times argued in a report Tuesday.

Only weeks ago, in late April, CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walesnky said that less than 10% of documented COVID-19 transmission cases, as recorded in various studies, can be attributed to outdoor transmission. Dr. Walesnky used this figure when making the point that data suggests “most of transmission is happening indoors rather than outdoors.”

But The New York Times reports that the 10% figure is “almost certainly misleading,” and also appears to be based partly on misclassified data from Singapore construction sites.

According to The New York Times, one study of 10,926 global coronavirus transmission cases recorded 95 outdoor cases, all of which were in Singapore construction sites. A separate study found four instances of outdoor transmission, out of 103 total cases of transmission, and all four of the cases were also in Singapore-based construction sites.

Those Singapore cases, however, may have occurred in enclosed spaces on construction sites rather than in open areas. From The New York Times:

The Singapore data originally comes from a government database there. That database does not categorize the construction-site cases as outdoor transmission, Yap Wei Qiang, a spokesman for the Ministry of Health, told my colleague Shashank Bengali. “We didn’t classify it according to outdoors or indoors,” Yap said. “It could have been workplace transmission where it happens outdoors at the site, or it could also have happened indoors within the construction site.”

As Shashank did further reporting, he discovered reasons to think that many of the infections may have occurred indoors. At some of the individual construction sites where Covid spread — like a complex for the financial firm UBS and a skyscraper project called Project Glory — the concrete shells for the buildings were largely completed before the pandemic began. (This video of Project Glory was shot more than four months before Singapore’s first reported Covid case.)

Because Singapore is hot year-round, the workers would have sought out the shade of enclosed spaces to hold meetings and eat lunch together, Alex Au of Transient Workers Count Too, an advocacy group, told Shashank. Electricians and plumbers would have worked in particularly close contact.

In response to the New York Times report, Dr. Walensky said that the less-than-ten-percent figure for outdoor cases was pulled from a top-line meta-analysis published in the Journal of Infectious Diseases. “All studies that were included in the systematic review said less than 10% of cases were transmitted outdoors,” said Dr. Walesnky.

In reference to that same claim, the Times argues, “[s]aying that less than 10 percent of Covid transmission occurs outdoors is akin to saying that sharks attack fewer than 20,000 swimmers a year. (The actual worldwide number is around 150.) It’s both true and deceiving.”

The CDC, however, told the New York Times in a statement: “There are limited data on outdoor transmission. The data we do have supports the hypothesis that the risk of outdoor transmission is low. 10 percent is a conservative estimate from a recent systematic review of peer-reviewed papers. CDC cannot provide the specific risk level for every activity in every community and errs on the side of protection when it comes to recommending steps to protect health. It is important for people and communities to consider their own situations and risks and to take appropriate steps to protect their health.”

Link
05-11-2021 10:29 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #188
RE: 3300 Deaths from Covid Vaccine since December
Copying from my post on the Rice board.


(05-12-2021 06:59 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(05-11-2021 09:47 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  The damage done by the CDC and the public health bureaucracy has been incalculable and if there were any justice some people would go to jail over it.

I've got a slightly different, but basically agreeing, take. The problem is that public health bureaucrats and emergency responders have two different thought processes that are almost diametrically opposed, and this was an emergency response situation.

Public health bureaucrats live and work in a relatively antiseptic environment and are good at gathering data, compiling statistics, and preparing charts and graphs. Emergency responders live and work in an environment where nothing is where it is supposed to be, nothing works the way it is supposed to work, and people are dying all around them. Public health bureaucrats do everything by the book. The first rule of emergency response is to throw the book away.

It's not that they were bad people, but that they were the wrong people. Unfortunately, we as a country don't have a reservoir of the right people to draw upon. It's why our response to emergencies is fairly consistency poor.

I think one good example is Dr. Chu in Washington. She identified the initial US outbreak in Seattle-area nursing homes. For her work CDC sent her a "cease and desist" order.

We need both public health administrators and emergency responders, but don't send one to do the job of the other.
05-12-2021 07:02 AM
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BartlettTigerFan Offline
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Post: #189
RE: 3300 Deaths from Covid Vaccine since December
I disagree with your opinion that they aren’t bad people. People like Fauci certainly are.
05-12-2021 07:14 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #190
RE: 3300 Deaths from Covid Vaccine since December
(05-12-2021 07:14 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  I disagree with your opinion that they aren’t bad people. People like Fauci certainly are.

I don't know whether Fauci is inherently evil or not. But he is a bureaucrat, and bureaucrats love power more than anything else. He was clearly the wrong person for this situation and should have deferred to someone with the right qualifications. Unfortunately, we didn't--and don't--really have someone with the right qualifications, at least not anywhere near the seat of power. 18 months ago, nobody knew who he was. His ascendancy is a bureaucrat's wet dream.
(This post was last modified: 05-12-2021 07:41 AM by Owl 69/70/75.)
05-12-2021 07:40 AM
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VA49er Offline
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Post: #191
RE: 3300 Deaths from Covid Vaccine since December
(05-11-2021 03:48 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(05-11-2021 02:58 PM)VA49er Wrote:  
(05-11-2021 02:48 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(05-11-2021 02:39 PM)VA49er Wrote:  
(05-11-2021 02:11 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Yup...correct. 03-wink

I don't pay much attention to all the reasons folks say a certain group does or doesn't take the vaccine. I received my second shot today and in the waiting room there were 10 people. Half of them were black, the other four white and one hispanic. I believe what I see.

Awesome...good to see. I get it...but you can't just look at one situation.

Oh, I know. Also can't whole-heartedly discount it since it doesn't fit a narrative. I believe what I see with my own eyes, not what I see on TV or read on biased news sites.

I was just thinking too...I live in a decent sized city and I don't think I saw more than 3 or 4 minorities the two times I was there to get my shots. And neither were black.

That's cool. Not going to discount your observation. 04-cheers
05-12-2021 07:54 AM
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Redwingtom Offline
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Post: #192
RE: 3300 Deaths from Covid Vaccine since December
(05-11-2021 07:40 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  At this point, with as little as we know about the vaccines and their long term effects or effectiveness, I’ll wait.

Have you read anything on Messenger-RNA vaccines? To me, they appear to be addressed by your body in a few weeks...meaning long term studies aren't really that relevant.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nco...OVID%2D19.

They've studied, developed and used m-RNA for years.

Quote:Technically, mRNA vaccines are not new. They, along with other RNA therapeutics, have been in development for decades, and many mRNA vaccines were in phase 1, 2, and 3 trials before the COVID-19 vaccines were created. There simply has not been the level of urgency to produce them to combat a virus as we have seen in this pandemic. The arrival of SARS-CoV-2 highlighted the critical need for solutions, and the development of mRNA vaccines along with other oligonucleotide therapies became an urgent priority. (Read more about oligonucleotide therapeutics in the fight against COVID-19 here.)

The potential of mRNA vaccines was restricted initially because mRNA is unstable, delivery is difficult, and they often created an undesirably strong immune response (1, 5). mRNA by itself is easily detected by the immune system, and it needs to avoid detection and be delivered into the cell (4). Each vaccine requires determining what portions of mRNA will create the desired response and what formulations will create an effective immune response without creating too strong an immune reaction (1).

Once these, and a myriad of other problems were solved, pharmaceutical companies were not eager to invest in mRNA vaccines for infectious diseases because there are many other effective vaccine platforms in use.

As discussed in the last point, the development process has been underway for decades. Moderna and Pfizer-BioNTech did not start from the beginning and produce vaccines in less than a year. They used the platforms they had spent years developing and perfecting, then inserted the necessary piece of genetic code and completed the design for an effective mRNA vaccine.
Facts about mRNA Vaccines and the Decades of Research That Went into Creating Them
05-12-2021 08:21 AM
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Danforth Offline
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Post: #193
RE: 3300 Deaths from Covid Vaccine since December
(05-12-2021 07:54 AM)VA49er Wrote:  
(05-11-2021 03:48 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(05-11-2021 02:58 PM)VA49er Wrote:  
(05-11-2021 02:48 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(05-11-2021 02:39 PM)VA49er Wrote:  I don't pay much attention to all the reasons folks say a certain group does or doesn't take the vaccine. I received my second shot today and in the waiting room there were 10 people. Half of them were black, the other four white and one hispanic. I believe what I see.

Awesome...good to see. I get it...but you can't just look at one situation.

Oh, I know. Also can't whole-heartedly discount it since it doesn't fit a narrative. I believe what I see with my own eyes, not what I see on TV or read on biased news sites.

I was just thinking too...I live in a decent sized city and I don't think I saw more than 3 or 4 minorities the two times I was there to get my shots. And neither were black.

That's cool. Not going to discount your observation. 04-cheers

Since we are recounting local trends here is mine.

I live in a town that is 80% Hispanic. People were waiting hours for the vaccine and the waiting list was over 200k at one point.

What is interesting is that in other towns that have different dynamics and political leanings, the vaccine was readily available. People from my city started driving to those cities to get the vaccine.
05-12-2021 09:56 AM
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