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I believe in Sam Onu
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salukiblue Offline
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Post: #21
RE: I believe in Sam Onu
(05-03-2021 10:46 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  You all forget you are watching a high school highlight clip reel... Moussa looked absolutely dominate in his clips. Again, I think Sam will have a great career here but if you are expecting him to play more than 10-12 minutes a game and be more than a 5 ppg and 5 rebounds then you are setting yourself up for disappointment...




10-12?

Let's put things in perspective:

Last 10+ years of bigs (frosh stats):

Moussa (#10 reclassified) 6.6 ppg 6.3 rpg
Wiseman (only 3 games #1/2 in class) 19.7 ppg 10.7 ppg
Malco Dandridge (#106) 3.4 ppg 3.0 rpg
Lance Thomas (#120 at 'Ville): 2.2 ppg 1.3 rpg
Dedric Lawson (#36) 15.8 ppg 9.3 rpg
Nick Marshall (#95) 3.1 ppg 2.7 rpg
Dominic Woodson (#77) 2.5 ppg 1.9 rpg
Austin Nichols (#22) 9.3 ppg 4.3 rpg
Shaq (#35) 7.4 ppg 4.4 ppg
Tarik Black (#62) 9.1 ppg 5.0 rpg
Stan Simpson (#190 at Illinois) 0.5 ppg 0.4 rpg
Hippolyte Tsafack (#174) 1.0 ppg 0.3 rpg


Basically (Tarik being the outlier) only guys 35 or better really contributed as Frosh.

One could expect the guys in the 90-120 range to be 3and 3 guys while the further you do down (in the 180's) those guys were mop ups.

Sam is right in that spot at 100. 3 and 3 would be on target.

But I'm sure people will "explain" that somehow he's the one recruit who hasn't happened to be rated properly and he's more "in the top 30-40 range" if there had been AAU or some other situation.

Just like how Malco was horribly underrated and his skills set, body, and maturity didn't belie his 100+ ranking. Yet somehow after two seasons his still only at 3.6 ppg and 2.9 rpg.
05-03-2021 11:12 AM
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salukiblue Offline
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Post: #22
RE: I believe in Sam Onu
(05-03-2021 11:02 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 10:06 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  One was ranked top 10 in his class, one outside the top 100.

Please don't let this thread be a new "stupid expectations from empty posters."

I would expect a bit better than Malcolms Freshman year...

If he gets 20 minutes a game 6.5 pts 4 rebounds.


He will not have nearly the impact on Defense that Cisse presented at the end of the year.

Here is a comprehensive list of all Freshman Tiger PF/C in the past 20 years who have been ranked #70+ and averaged more than 6 points a game:








Yeah, none.
(This post was last modified: 05-03-2021 06:01 PM by salukiblue.)
05-03-2021 11:16 AM
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cscottl1981 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: I believe in Sam Onu
(05-03-2021 11:10 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 10:46 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  You all forget you are watching a high school highlight clip reel... Moussa looked absolutely dominate in his clips. Again, I think Sam will have a great career here but if you are expecting him to play more than 10-12 minutes a game and be more than a 5 ppg and 5 rebounds then you are setting yourself up for disappointment... Honestly I would be thrilled if he was close to 5 and 5 and protected the rim. A good rim protector and rebounder is what we really need out of him.




Lol...

You watch that video and you would think Cisse was a threat from the 3 point line.

Bizarre, right? He's definitely a niche type player, but I think he'll do well with his skillset if he can improve his perimeter defense.

Not sure he took a 3 all season. Three footers seemed to be the end of his range.
(This post was last modified: 05-03-2021 11:20 AM by cscottl1981.)
05-03-2021 11:17 AM
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macgar32 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: I believe in Sam Onu
(05-03-2021 11:16 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 11:02 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 10:06 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  One was ranked top 10 in his class, one outside the top 100.

Please don't let this thread be a new "stupid expectations from empty posters."

I would expect a bit better than Malcolms Freshman year...

If he gets 20 minutes a game 6.5 pts 4 rebounds.


He will not have nearly the impact on Defense that Cisse presented at the end of the year.

Here is a comprehensive list of all Tiger PF/C in the past 20 years who have been ranked #70+ and averaged more than 6 points a game:

That is the deal...It will depend on how he compares to his comps on the team.

If he doesn't get 20 minutes a game...Then obviously 6 points is out of the question.

Malcolm likely comes close to 6 points a game if he gets 20 minutes as a Frosh.
05-03-2021 11:19 AM
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Oman Offline
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Post: #25
RE: I believe in Sam Onu
(05-03-2021 10:56 AM)k2tigers Wrote:  Chandler Lawson has a ridiculous 7'6" wing span. He could start in the frontcourt alongside DW. BTW, that wingspan is higher than anyone's on this year's and last year's roster.

Chandler is the likely replacement in the lineup for Moussa, not the defensive presence but better on the offensive end.

I like Sam a lot, but don't expect more than 5 minutes a game, Big guys normally need a year or three to adjust to the speed of the game, and to adjust to playing against people close to their size. 3-2 would be a good year for him.
05-03-2021 11:19 AM
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salukiblue Offline
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Post: #26
RE: I believe in Sam Onu
Here is the comprehensive list of all Freshman Tiger PF/C in the last 20 years who have been ranked #70+ and averaged 4 or more rebounds a game:

Joey Dorsey
(This post was last modified: 05-03-2021 06:02 PM by salukiblue.)
05-03-2021 11:19 AM
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salukiblue Offline
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Post: #27
RE: I believe in Sam Onu
(05-03-2021 11:19 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 11:16 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 11:02 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 10:06 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  One was ranked top 10 in his class, one outside the top 100.

Please don't let this thread be a new "stupid expectations from empty posters."

I would expect a bit better than Malcolms Freshman year...

If he gets 20 minutes a game 6.5 pts 4 rebounds.


He will not have nearly the impact on Defense that Cisse presented at the end of the year.

Here is a comprehensive list of all Tiger PF/C in the past 20 years who have been ranked #70+ and averaged more than 6 points a game:

That is the deal...It will depend on how he compares to his comps on the team.

If he doesn't get 20 minutes a game...Then obviously 6 points is out of the question.

Malcolm likely comes close to 6 points a game if he gets 20 minutes as a Frosh.

But he wouldn't get 20 because he wasn't good enough to play 20.

That's like saying Konchar could average 10 ppg for the Grizz.

Well, sure, take away 20 minutes from Brooks and Melton and give them to Konchar.

Problem is Konchar isn't better than them, so he isn't going to get the minutes.

If a #106 ranked frosh is playing 20 mpg, this team will have suffered numerous injuries and will be playing to stay above .500.
(This post was last modified: 05-03-2021 11:30 AM by salukiblue.)
05-03-2021 11:23 AM
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salukiblue Offline
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Post: #28
RE: I believe in Sam Onu
Here is a comprehensive list of ALL Tigers PF/C who averaged more than 20 mpg as a frosh (HS ranking):

Dedric (#35) 32.2 mpg
Precious (#15) 30.4 mpg
Austin (#22) 22.8 mpg
Tarik (#62) 22.6 mpg
Shaq (#35) 20.7 mpg
(This post was last modified: 05-03-2021 11:29 AM by salukiblue.)
05-03-2021 11:29 AM
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macgar32 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: I believe in Sam Onu
(05-03-2021 11:23 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 11:19 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 11:16 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 11:02 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 10:06 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  One was ranked top 10 in his class, one outside the top 100.

Please don't let this thread be a new "stupid expectations from empty posters."

I would expect a bit better than Malcolms Freshman year...

If he gets 20 minutes a game 6.5 pts 4 rebounds.


He will not have nearly the impact on Defense that Cisse presented at the end of the year.

Here is a comprehensive list of all Tiger PF/C in the past 20 years who have been ranked #70+ and averaged more than 6 points a game:

That is the deal...It will depend on how he compares to his comps on the team.

If he doesn't get 20 minutes a game...Then obviously 6 points is out of the question.

Malcolm likely comes close to 6 points a game if he gets 20 minutes as a Frosh.

But he wouldn't get 20 because he wasn't good enough to play 20.

That's like saying Konchar could average 10 ppg for the Grizz.

Well, sure, take away 20 minutes from Brooks and Melton and give them to Konchar.

Problem is Konchar isn't better than the, so he isn't going to get the minutes.

If a #106 ranked frosh is playing 20 mpg, this team will have suffered numerous injuries and will be playing to stay above .500.

Malcolm wasn't healthy enough to play 20...But that is a different discussion.

If Sam can get 6 and 4 in 20 minutes...This team is still a good team. Not sure why you would think otherwise. The reason why kids outside the top 100 don't get good numbers is because normally we have better kids than them. Not because if they played we would lose.
05-03-2021 11:32 AM
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macgar32 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: I believe in Sam Onu
Looking at C ranked around 100 last year...

Jaylin Williams 16M 3.7pts 4.7 rebounds Ark. Rnk 102
Xavier Foster 8M 4pts 1.7 rebounds Iowa State Rnk 103
Adama Sango 17M 7.3pts 4.8 rebounds UConn Rnk 104
Dain Dainja (Didn't Play) Baylor Rnk 106
Ryan Kalkbrenner 13.8M 5.9pts 3.5rebounds Creighton Rnk 107


So if you like stats...I guess those are contrary to the ones you posted.

Four tourney teams...So I guess you can play a top 100 guy at center and actually be good...Who knew.

And I guess the guy from the National Championship team not playing actually makes sense.

Not random...No cherry picking...Just the first 5 centers ranked above 100.
(This post was last modified: 05-03-2021 11:55 AM by macgar32.)
05-03-2021 11:49 AM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #31
RE: I believe in Sam Onu
(05-03-2021 10:06 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  One was ranked top 10 in his class, one outside the top 100.

Please don't let this thread be a new "stupid expectations from empty posters."
05-03-2021 11:59 AM
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salukiblue Offline
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Post: #32
RE: I believe in Sam Onu
(05-03-2021 11:32 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 11:23 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 11:19 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 11:16 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 11:02 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  I would expect a bit better than Malcolms Freshman year...

If he gets 20 minutes a game 6.5 pts 4 rebounds.


He will not have nearly the impact on Defense that Cisse presented at the end of the year.

Here is a comprehensive list of all Tiger PF/C in the past 20 years who have been ranked #70+ and averaged more than 6 points a game:

That is the deal...It will depend on how he compares to his comps on the team.

If he doesn't get 20 minutes a game...Then obviously 6 points is out of the question.

Malcolm likely comes close to 6 points a game if he gets 20 minutes as a Frosh.

But he wouldn't get 20 because he wasn't good enough to play 20.

That's like saying Konchar could average 10 ppg for the Grizz.

Well, sure, take away 20 minutes from Brooks and Melton and give them to Konchar.

Problem is Konchar isn't better than the, so he isn't going to get the minutes.

If a #106 ranked frosh is playing 20 mpg, this team will have suffered numerous injuries and will be playing to stay above .500.

Malcolm wasn't healthy enough to play 20...But that is a different discussion.

If Sam can get 6 and 4 in 20 minutes...This team is still a good team. Not sure why you would think otherwise. The reason why kids outside the top 100 don't get good numbers is because normally we have better kids than them. Not because if they played we would lose.

It absolutely is.

If Malcom had been GOOD enough to play more last year (or this year) he would have. Malcolm was healthy enough to play but not good enough to play more. If you are saying he health hurt his effectiveness, then ok, but if it was just a cardio issue, eh.

Bottom line he was 3.4 and 3.0 as a frosh and 3.6 and 2.9 this year. If he had the skill and talent to put up better numbers, he would have played more.

The idea that you think some dude ranked 100 who didn't even play HS basketball this past year is going to come on in to Memphis and play 20 mpg when only 5 frosh PF/Cs in the past 20 years have done so--three of which were McDonald's All Americans is mind blowing.

More importantly, where is he going to get 20 minutes from?

If Williams plays 25, Malco plays 20, Minot plays 15 and Chandler plays 15...that's 75 of the 80 minutes at PF/C. And assuming Memphis doesn't go small at the 4 with a SF/Wing.

Who is he going to take minutes from?
05-03-2021 12:03 PM
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macgar32 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: I believe in Sam Onu
(05-03-2021 12:03 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 11:32 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 11:23 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 11:19 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 11:16 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Here is a comprehensive list of all Tiger PF/C in the past 20 years who have been ranked #70+ and averaged more than 6 points a game:

That is the deal...It will depend on how he compares to his comps on the team.

If he doesn't get 20 minutes a game...Then obviously 6 points is out of the question.

Malcolm likely comes close to 6 points a game if he gets 20 minutes as a Frosh.

But he wouldn't get 20 because he wasn't good enough to play 20.

That's like saying Konchar could average 10 ppg for the Grizz.

Well, sure, take away 20 minutes from Brooks and Melton and give them to Konchar.

Problem is Konchar isn't better than the, so he isn't going to get the minutes.

If a #106 ranked frosh is playing 20 mpg, this team will have suffered numerous injuries and will be playing to stay above .500.

Malcolm wasn't healthy enough to play 20...But that is a different discussion.

If Sam can get 6 and 4 in 20 minutes...This team is still a good team. Not sure why you would think otherwise. The reason why kids outside the top 100 don't get good numbers is because normally we have better kids than them. Not because if they played we would lose.

It absolutely is.

If Malcom had been GOOD enough to play more last year (or this year) he would have. Malcolm was healthy enough to play but not good enough to play more. If you are saying he health hurt his effectiveness, then ok, but if it was just a cardio issue, eh.

Bottom line he was 3.4 and 3.0 as a frosh and 3.6 and 2.9 this year. If he had the skill and talent to put up better numbers, he would have played more.

The idea that you think some dude ranked 100 who didn't even play HS basketball this past year is going to come on in to Memphis and play 20 mpg when only 5 frosh PF/Cs in the past 20 years have done so--three of which were McDonald's All Americans is mind blowing.

More importantly, where is he going to get 20 minutes from?

If Williams plays 25, Malco plays 20, Minot plays 15 and Chandler plays 15...that's 75 of the 80 minutes at PF/C. And assuming Memphis doesn't go small at the 4 with a SF/Wing.

Who is he going to take minutes from?

Look at the post above yours...

3 Tourney teams with top 100ish centers contributing heavily. How did they make the tourney if they were bad teams.

Is it possible that Sam doesn't contribute...Absolutely.

But it wont because of some historical trend of top 100 centers not being able to contribute on a good teams.

Now do the stats posted above soften your position any now that there are observable facts that contradict your opinion that it is absolutely impossible?
(This post was last modified: 05-03-2021 12:21 PM by macgar32.)
05-03-2021 12:07 PM
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salukiblue Offline
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Post: #34
RE: I believe in Sam Onu
(05-03-2021 11:49 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  Looking at C ranked around 100 last year...

Jaylin Williams 16M 3.7pts 4.7 rebounds Ark. Rnk 102
Xavier Foster 8M 4pts 1.7 rebounds Iowa State Rnk 103
Adama Sango 17M 7.3pts 4.8 rebounds UConn Rnk 104
Dain Dainja (Didn't Play) Baylor Rnk 106
Ryan Kalkbrenner 13.8M 5.9pts 3.5rebounds Creighton Rnk 107


So if you like stats...I guess those are contrary to the ones you posted.

Four tourney teams...So I guess you can play a top 100 guy at center and actually be good...Who knew.

And I guess the guy from the National Championship team not playing actually makes sense.

Not random...No cherry picking...Just the first 5 centers ranked above 100.

I'm looking at composite...better feel than just 1 service.

First off, both Williams and Foster are well under 100. 78 and 88. Even then, Williams was still only 3.7 and 4.7. Foster barely played for a 2-22 team and then got hurt.

Sanogo was also at 85. Not over 100.

John Hughley from Pitt was #99. Averaged 5 and 4 for a losing team before he was suspended.

Lynn Kidd from Clemson was #110. Went for 1.1 and 1.0.

Kalkbrenner did very well but still was just 6 and 4. He was a top 85 recruit until last summer and somehow got "worse" and dropped 20 points in the rankings during the summer of Rona.

Of course, during the BE and NCAAt his production dropped to 2.3 ppg and 1.7 rpg. Plus, he was the only guy on Creighton's roster taller than 6'7 who played real minutes.

Bottom line, the range is from basically 1 and 1 to 7 and 5 (for a top 85 guy). In the middle, you're looking at 3 and 3.

By hoping/saying Sam is going to be a 20 mpg 6 and 4 guy, what you literally are saying is he will be at the high range of bigs in the 100 -110 recruiting slots, will play more minutes than all but 5 other Tigers PF/C in the last 20 years and be only one of a handful of Tigers' bigs to average more than 10 points and rebounds combined in a frosh season.
(This post was last modified: 05-03-2021 12:41 PM by salukiblue.)
05-03-2021 12:27 PM
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salukiblue Offline
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Post: #35
RE: I believe in Sam Onu
(05-03-2021 12:07 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  Look at the post above yours...

3 Tourney teams with top 100ish centers contributing heavily. How did they make the tourney if they were bad teams.

Is it possible that Sam doesn't contribute...Absolutely.

But it wont because of some historical trend of top 100 centers not being able to contribute on a good teams.

Now do the stats posted above soften your position any now that there are observable facts that contradict your opinion that it is absolutely impossible?

Who is he going to take minutes from.


Fill in the blanks:

Guys who will play the 4/5.

80 minutes total:

Sam Ayo 18 mpg
Deandre ___ mpg
Josh Minott ___ mpg
Malco Dandridge ___ mpg
Chandler Lawson ___ mpg
(This post was last modified: 05-03-2021 12:30 PM by salukiblue.)
05-03-2021 12:30 PM
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TGTiger Offline
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Post: #36
RE: I believe in Sam Onu
(05-03-2021 10:41 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Cisse was really good for a frosh.

Then take into account:

He reclassed from a small school to college.
He only turned 18 last June.
Because of Covid, he didn't get a full summer practicing and working out with other Tigers.

Cisse showed a lot of improvement as the season went on. His hands were always of issue, but so much of that seemed to be issues with pass location (too low) or trying to weave in bullets at a short distance. Guys like Nolley had little rapport with Cisse in terms of have a feel for lob vs. regular pass, etc.

Ideally that would have been remedied over the summer with the opportunity for those guys to play more and know where guys go to spots were.

Very much like Brady and Coxie 2018 vs. 2019. They didn't really have a great connection then the summer of 2019 they worked together on unspoken signals, knowing where to expect passes and where to best get the ball.

Thank you! Way too many armchair coaches overlook Cisse’s background. It’s very relevant in his case.
05-03-2021 12:30 PM
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macgar32 Offline
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Post: #37
RE: I believe in Sam Onu
(05-03-2021 12:27 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 11:49 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  Looking at C ranked around 100 last year...

Jaylin Williams 16M 3.7pts 4.7 rebounds Ark. Rnk 102
Xavier Foster 8M 4pts 1.7 rebounds Iowa State Rnk 103
Adama Sango 17M 7.3pts 4.8 rebounds UConn Rnk 104
Dain Dainja (Didn't Play) Baylor Rnk 106
Ryan Kalkbrenner 13.8M 5.9pts 3.5rebounds Creighton Rnk 107


So if you like stats...I guess those are contrary to the ones you posted.

Four tourney teams...So I guess you can play a top 100 guy at center and actually be good...Who knew.

And I guess the guy from the National Championship team not playing actually makes sense.

Not random...No cherry picking...Just the first 5 centers ranked above 100.

I'm looking at composite...better feel than just 1 service.

First off, both Williams and Foster are well under 100. 78 and 88. Even then, Williams was still only 3.7 and 4.7. Foster barely played for a 2-22 team and then got hurt.

Sanogo was also at 85. Not over 100.

John Hughley from Pitt was #99. Averaged 5 and 4 for a losing team before he was suspended.

Lynn Kidd from Clemson was #110. Went for 1.1 and 1.0.

Kalkbrenner did very well but still was just 6 and 4. He was a top 85 recruit until last summer and somehow got "worse" and dropped 20 points in the rankings during the summer of Rona.

Bottom line, the range is from basically 1 and 1 to 7 and 5 (for a top 85 guy). In the middle, you're looking at 3 and 3.

By hoping/saying Sam is going to be a 20 mpg 6 and 4 guy, what you literally are saying is he will be at the high range of bigs in the 100 -110 recruiting slots, will play more minutes than all but 5 other Tigers PF/C in the last 20 years and be only one of a handful of Tigers' bigs to average more than 10 points and rebounds combined in a frosh season.

Tigers stats are not the be all end all...

Not sure why you keep going back to that.

I looked at the 247 rankings pulled 5 guys who were ranked around 100.

Just like Sam and pulled their stats.

You seem to wanting to pick at nits over rankings...You clearly see the rankings I used. So those performances are definitely possible. If Sam is better than Malcolm...Which is possible with Malcolms health issues he can produce at the same rate as the guys ranked around him those numbers are definitely possible.

Not some situation where the only way he plays that much is if we stink...And you obviously see that isn't true.
(This post was last modified: 05-03-2021 12:42 PM by macgar32.)
05-03-2021 12:32 PM
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SeñorTiger Offline
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Post: #38
RE: I believe in Sam Onu
(05-03-2021 11:12 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 10:46 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  You all forget you are watching a high school highlight clip reel... Moussa looked absolutely dominate in his clips. Again, I think Sam will have a great career here but if you are expecting him to play more than 10-12 minutes a game and be more than a 5 ppg and 5 rebounds then you are setting yourself up for disappointment...




10-12?

Let's put things in perspective:

Last 10+ years of bigs (frosh stats):

Moussa (#10 reclassified) 6.6 ppg 6.3 rpg
Wiseman (only 3 games #1/2 in class) 19.7 ppg 10.7 ppg
Malco Dandridge (#106) 3.4 ppg 3.0 rpg
Lance Thomas (#120 at 'Ville): 2.2 ppg 1.3 rpg
Dedric Lawson (#36) 15.8 ppg 9.3 rpg
Nick Marshall (#95) 3.1 ppg 2.7 rpg
Dominic Woodson (#77) 2.5 ppg 1.9 rpg
Austin Nichols (#22) 9.3 ppg 4.3 rpg
Shaq (#35) 7.4 ppg 4.4 ppg
Tarik Black (#62) 9.1 ppg 5.0 rpg
Stan Simpson (#190 at Illinois) 0.5 ppg 0.4 rpg
Hippolyte Tsafack (#174) 1.0 ppg 0.3 rpg


Basically (Tarik being the outlier) only guys 35 or better really contributed as Frosh.

One could expect the guys in the 90-120 range to be 3and 3 guys while the further you do down (in the 180's) those guys were mop ups.

Sam is right in that spot at 100. 3 and 3 would be on target.

But I'm sure people will "explain" that somehow he's the one recruit who hasn't happened to be rated properly and he's more "in the top 30-40 range" if there had been AAU or some other situation.

Just like how Malco was horribly underrated and his skills set, body, and maturity didn't belie his 100+ ranking. Yet somehow after two seasons his still only at 3.6 ppg and 2.9 rpg.

You realize I was saying I expect him to only play 10-12 MINUTES PER GAME, not score 10-12 ppgs. As stated, I would be thrilled if averaged 5 points per game.
05-03-2021 12:40 PM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #39
RE: I believe in Sam Onu
(05-03-2021 11:12 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 10:46 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  You all forget you are watching a high school highlight clip reel... Moussa looked absolutely dominate in his clips. Again, I think Sam will have a great career here but if you are expecting him to play more than 10-12 minutes a game and be more than a 5 ppg and 5 rebounds then you are setting yourself up for disappointment...




10-12?

Let's put things in perspective:

Last 10+ years of bigs (frosh stats):

Moussa (#10 reclassified) 6.6 ppg 6.3 rpg
Wiseman (only 3 games #1/2 in class) 19.7 ppg 10.7 ppg
Malco Dandridge (#106) 3.4 ppg 3.0 rpg
Lance Thomas (#120 at 'Ville): 2.2 ppg 1.3 rpg
Dedric Lawson (#36) 15.8 ppg 9.3 rpg
Nick Marshall (#95) 3.1 ppg 2.7 rpg
Dominic Woodson (#77) 2.5 ppg 1.9 rpg
Austin Nichols (#22) 9.3 ppg 4.3 rpg
Shaq (#35) 7.4 ppg 4.4 ppg
Tarik Black (#62) 9.1 ppg 5.0 rpg
Stan Simpson (#190 at Illinois) 0.5 ppg 0.4 rpg
Hippolyte Tsafack (#174) 1.0 ppg 0.3 rpg


Basically (Tarik being the outlier) only guys 35 or better really contributed as Frosh.

One could expect the guys in the 90-120 range to be 3and 3 guys while the further you do down (in the 180's) those guys were mop ups.

Sam is right in that spot at 100. 3 and 3 would be on target.

But I'm sure people will "explain" that somehow he's the one recruit who hasn't happened to be rated properly and he's more "in the top 30-40 range" if there had been AAU or some other situation.

Just like how Malco was horribly underrated and his skills set, body, and maturity didn't belie his 100+ ranking. Yet somehow after two seasons his still only at 3.6 ppg and 2.9 rpg.

It's not that at all, it is more dependent on roster and need. CDR at 8.3 points per game is 100X better than Brewton at 9.1 points per game. Obviously, you can have a player be infinitely superior to another player, even if they don't score as much.

13.3 Davenport
9.1 Brewton
8.1 Parks
6.9 Jamal Johnson
5.2 Randall

8.3 CDR
7.2 Anderson
6.6 Crawford
5.6 Dozier
4.6 Dorsey

It all depends on Dandridge being healthy, his level of play, and foul trouble on Dandridge and DW. Against some opponents, DW won't be able to guard their center.

If Sam has a pulse and isn't completely lost, he is probably looking at 8 minutes at the low end, and 14 minutes at the high end. I'm guessing he will be in the 12 minute range. You can't just shoehorn players into a scoring range based on their ranking. If Sam plays 8 minutes, he will produce at a certain level. If he plays 18 minutes, he will produce at a different level.

Your Dandridge example is invalid, because he hasn't been healthy.
(This post was last modified: 05-03-2021 12:48 PM by Stammers.)
05-03-2021 12:44 PM
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Irse Online
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Post: #40
RE: I believe in Sam Onu
(05-03-2021 12:30 PM)TGTiger Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 10:41 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Cisse was really good for a frosh.

Then take into account:

He reclassed from a small school to college.
He only turned 18 last June.
Because of Covid, he didn't get a full summer practicing and working out with other Tigers.

Cisse showed a lot of improvement as the season went on. His hands were always of issue, but so much of that seemed to be issues with pass location (too low) or trying to weave in bullets at a short distance. Guys like Nolley had little rapport with Cisse in terms of have a feel for lob vs. regular pass, etc.

Ideally that would have been remedied over the summer with the opportunity for those guys to play more and know where guys go to spots were.

Very much like Brady and Coxie 2018 vs. 2019. They didn't really have a great connection then the summer of 2019 they worked together on unspoken signals, knowing where to expect passes and where to best get the ball.

Thank you! Way too many armchair coaches overlook Cisse’s background. It’s very relevant in his case.

It's not like he had a bad year. He was the AAC freshman of the year. He could have had a better year if he got to practice some over the summer with the team. Too bad he felt he wasn't getting what he needed at Memphis. (Although I thought he was getting exactly what he needed)
05-03-2021 12:48 PM
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