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All About Attendance
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #1
All About Attendance
Thought I'd start a new thread on Football and basketball attendance.

I envision pretty much anything goes here. A few thoughts rumbling through my brain.

I think attendance at some traditional power schools will be at 2019 levels but many schools will see 5-25% drops this year with the Covid hangover. I mean if we still have vaccinated leaders and media wearing double masks there has to be reluctance on some to go back. Some states are still holding on pretty tight with capacity controls (looking at you Cuomo) and some STHers are saying why do I need to re-up my season tickets?

Do you agree? Where do you think your school is on this? Is it affecting you?
04-30-2021 07:23 AM
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TexanMark Offline
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RE: All About Attendance
Another thought...what factors drive attendance at your school?

Students
Alumni
Townies
Discounts
FOMO
Tailgates

Be specific and talk about your school or others you know. TV doesn't lie. If you claim you are sold out but it looks 50% full. Why? All inside in clubs, high no show rate, TV shows visiting side, school inflating attendance?
04-30-2021 07:29 AM
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mlb Offline
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All About Attendance
Winning drives it everywhere, especially Cincinnati. I'm guessing with the high expectations around the program that UC will max out whatever the state allows this year. They need the revenue after last year as well.

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04-30-2021 07:42 AM
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Bronco'14 Offline
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RE: All About Attendance
I expect not to see 100% capacity allowed this season. Maybe 30% here in MI if we're lucky.

Weather & match-up affects attendance in the MAC. You can usually expect near-capacity the first couple games of the season when it's 70 or so out, for the teams w/ the 'better' fanbases. Fans are excited the long off-season is over, students excited to be back on campus, maybe attending their first game, tailgating at its height, etc. As the season goes on & it gets cooler, attendance drops, usually considerably. Homecoming is fairly-well attended. Hosting rivals on a Saturday - especially if it's a warm weather game - the stadium will be rocking. If you're watching a MAC weeknight game in November, that's not the same look as a Saturday game in September or even October - FACT.

Cool-to-cold, non-exciting opponents, and/or weeknight games hurt attendance considerably.

Also, to a lesser extent, record. You don't want to be out of the MAC title race in October. Getting a P5 win out-of-conference can help w/ attendance. Going 3-1 or even sweeping OOC can also help w/ attendance, but it depends who you beat. Going 0-4, 1-3, etc. is a death sentence for your attendance the rest of the season.
(This post was last modified: 04-30-2021 07:49 AM by Bronco'14.)
04-30-2021 07:45 AM
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TexanMark Offline
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RE: All About Attendance
(04-30-2021 07:42 AM)mlb Wrote:  Winning drives it everywhere, especially Cincinnati. I'm guessing with the high expectations around the program that UC will max out whatever the state allows this year. They need the revenue after last year as well.

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So FOMO in Cincy? You think older folks still scared will keep their tickets?
04-30-2021 07:46 AM
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Gemofthehills Offline
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RE: All About Attendance
Nearby opponents or big names drive attendance. Other than those items it the same people every game. Maybe a homecoming or a new stadium renovation will drive it a couple of games.

Winning doesnt change the attendance very much at non P5 schools unless its championship level (UCF, NDSU, Boise type). These schools just dont collect the sidewalk/bandwagon fans very often.
04-30-2021 07:56 AM
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TexanMark Offline
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RE: All About Attendance
(04-30-2021 07:56 AM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  Nearby opponents or big names drive attendance. Other than those items it the same people every game. Maybe a homecoming or a new stadium renovation will drive it a couple of games.

Winning doesnt change the attendance very much at non P5 schools unless its championship level (UCF, NDSU, Boise type). These schools just dont collect the sidewalk/bandwagon fans very often.

I went to a few UTSA games when I lived there. They were getting some bandwagon fans but it was very casual. Ticket giveaways and discounts. The local casual fan really didn't give a crap about most opponents. Texas St. and to a lessor extent UTEP and Rice were games they wanted to see along with whatever P5 team that visited.

Campus being 20-30 mins away didn't help. UTSA really needs an oncampus stadium of 30k (like USF needs too).

I saw with UTSA that there was interest in September and October but interest and attendance really dropped off in November. They could never string a run of great seasons to harden the core fanbase.
04-30-2021 08:27 AM
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bhutchcraft89 Offline
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RE: All About Attendance
Absolutely love how K-State will go play for example at Stanford and for the return game then agree to a neutral site. Screws over the STH.
04-30-2021 08:48 AM
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RE: All About Attendance
(04-30-2021 08:48 AM)bhutchcraft89 Wrote:  Absolutely love how K-State will go play for example at Stanford and for the return game then agree to a neutral site. Screws over the STH.

Outside of the traditional Oklahoma/Texas and Florida/Georgia games, I hate 1 time regular season neutral site games.

Now what Notre Dame and Wisconsin did, with a 2 game neutral site deal in Chicago and Green Bay, that’s ok because both fan bases got a game near them.
04-30-2021 09:31 AM
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Bobcat2013 Offline
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RE: All About Attendance
Here's some bullet points for our attendance.

Winning: As others have said winning drives it the most. we had very solid attendance in 2013-2014 when we won more than we lost. After a solid 7-5 2014 we had some hype going into 2015. Our first home game vs PVAMU drew almost 25k. By far the biggest crowd we've had for an FCS game. Then our next home game was against USM and we had almost 28k. By far our biggest crowd for an out of state G5. Then we started to suck and our attendance has felt it ever since. We have yet to have an outstanding season but the beginning or 2015 gave us a little taste of what could be if we ever generate a little hype.

Opponents: Next biggest factor is opponent. Anytime that we've had a sellout it has been due to having something of a name opponent or a regional opponent. We have had sellouts vs Texas Tech, Navy, Houston, and UTSA. Other games that we've had vs relatively known G5s have drawn good crowds as well like Wyomingx2, USM, and App State.

Tailgates: our tailgates are huge. I haven't been to a ton of others, I've been to one game each at UTSA, A&M, UT, and Baylor and I'd say that ours beats the heck out of all three of theirs. A&M and UT were very spread out all over the place and didn't seem very communal. Baylors was nice but tame. When we suck, which has been a most of the time, a significant portion of the tailgaters don't even make it to the stadium. We could get an easy 5-10k extra if those people just came into the stadium.

Outside factors: being next to Austin and San Antonio there are a ton of events going on during football season that draw people like Wurstfest, and SXSW.
04-30-2021 09:37 AM
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whittx Offline
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RE: All About Attendance
(04-30-2021 08:27 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(04-30-2021 07:56 AM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  Nearby opponents or big names drive attendance. Other than those items it the same people every game. Maybe a homecoming or a new stadium renovation will drive it a couple of games.

Winning doesnt change the attendance very much at non P5 schools unless its championship level (UCF, NDSU, Boise type). These schools just dont collect the sidewalk/bandwagon fans very often.

I went to a few UTSA games when I lived there. They were getting some bandwagon fans but it was very casual. Ticket giveaways and discounts. The local casual fan really didn't give a crap about most opponents. Texas St. and to a lessor extent UTEP and Rice were games they wanted to see along with whatever P5 team that visited.

Campus being 20-30 mins away didn't help. UTSA really needs an oncampus stadium of 30k (like USF needs too).

I saw with UTSA that there was interest in September and October but interest and attendance really dropped off in November. They could never string a run of great seasons to harden the core fanbase.
UCF had the same issue when they played at the Citrus Bowl. At least the Alamodome isn't in the worst neighborhood in the city.
04-30-2021 09:38 AM
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Bobcat2013 Offline
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RE: All About Attendance
(04-30-2021 07:45 AM)Bronco14 Wrote:  I expect not to see 100% capacity allowed this season. Maybe 30% here in MI if we're lucky.

Weather & match-up affects attendance in the MAC. You can usually expect near-capacity the first couple games of the season when it's 70 or so out, for the teams w/ the 'better' fanbases. Fans are excited the long off-season is over, students excited to be back on campus, maybe attending their first game, tailgating at its height, etc. As the season goes on & it gets cooler, attendance drops, usually considerably. Homecoming is fairly-well attended. Hosting rivals on a Saturday - especially if it's a warm weather game - the stadium will be rocking. If you're watching a MAC weeknight game in November, that's not the same look as a Saturday game in September or even October - FACT.

Cool-to-cold, non-exciting opponents, and/or weeknight games hurt attendance considerably.

Also, to a lesser extent, record. You don't want to be out of the MAC title race in October. Getting a P5 win out-of-conference can help w/ attendance. Going 3-1 or even sweeping OOC can also help w/ attendance, but it depends who you beat. Going 0-4, 1-3, etc. is a death sentence for your attendance the rest of the season.

I have to admit I was very pleasantly surprised to see a full stadium when we played at Ohio in 2016. Maction had definitely conditioned me to think that the average MAC crowd was less than a thousand.
04-30-2021 09:41 AM
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TerryD Offline
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RE: All About Attendance
Here is the latest from ND on 2021 attendance (TBD) and ticket sales:

"Before any ticket sales to those games happen, capacity at Notre Dame Stadium this season and policies for surrounding gameday events like tailgating will be determined.

Single-game tickets will go on sale in mid-August, per the school's release. Fans who are eligible to buy tickets through the lottery system can do so in early July. Current season ticket holders will have renewal information distributed by email the week of May 24. Any season-ticket holders who rolled over their 2020 payments will be credited that amount toward their 2021 ticket.

Notre Dame is accepting deposits for new season-ticket holders."


https://notredame.rivals.com/news/notre-...e-revealed




It will be interesting to see what ND does with football attendance, given that it is requiring all returning students for the Fall semester to be vaccinated.


https://news.nd.edu/news/notre-dame-to-r...-semester/
(This post was last modified: 04-30-2021 09:48 AM by TerryD.)
04-30-2021 09:46 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: All About Attendance
(04-30-2021 07:23 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Thought I'd start a new thread on Football and basketball attendance.

I envision pretty much anything goes here. A few thoughts rumbling through my brain.

I think attendance at some traditional power schools will be at 2019 levels but many schools will see 5-25% drops this year with the Covid hangover. I mean if we still have vaccinated leaders and media wearing double masks there has to be reluctance on some to go back. Some states are still holding on pretty tight with capacity controls (looking at you Cuomo) and some STHers are saying why do I need to re-up my season tickets?

Do you agree? Where do you think your school is on this? Is it affecting you?

Whether leaders do or don't wear masks has zero bearing on my decision to attend or not; I will make my own decisions.

[rant]
Keep in mind that wearing a mask doesn't protect the wearer so much as it protects everyone else from the wearer - and that's true if the wearer is vaccinated, too (they can still inhale/exhale the virus, even if they don't contract the disease). Regardless of all the politically-motivated anti-mask propaganda, wearing a mask is an act of neighborly love -- something that all true Christians should want to do (Love Thy Neighbors). It is not a political statement, despite what you may have been told.
[/rant]
04-30-2021 10:15 AM
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SlyFox Offline
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RE: All About Attendance
I have been surprised to see that the opponent has not been as huge of a factor at my alma mater of Liberty as I had expected when we moved up from FCS. And we really haven't been able to enjoy the Freeze factor as of yet due to COVID.

What I can tell you is that at Liberty the students make up a near majority of the crowd at this pount in our development. We don't have an older alumni base like most schools in FBS. Most of the folks in our hometown are conditioned to follow nearby UVa & VT. But the exit of Jerry Jr. and the recent success we have enjoyed with our Top 25 finish this past season may finally be our tipping point in getting casual fans to join us in the stadium.
(This post was last modified: 04-30-2021 10:29 AM by SlyFox.)
04-30-2021 10:28 AM
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RE: All About Attendance
(04-30-2021 07:23 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Thought I'd start a new thread on Football and basketball attendance.

I envision pretty much anything goes here. A few thoughts rumbling through my brain.

I think attendance at some traditional power schools will be at 2019 levels but many schools will see 5-25% drops this year with the Covid hangover. I mean if we still have vaccinated leaders and media wearing double masks there has to be reluctance on some to go back. Some states are still holding on pretty tight with capacity controls (looking at you Cuomo) and some STHers are saying why do I need to re-up my season tickets?

Do you agree? Where do you think your school is on this? Is it affecting you?

Mark for the 4 years prior to COVID attendance had been trending down. Over that span of time the SEC (leader among the P5) dropped from an average over 77,000 per game to an average over 72,000 per game. The Big 10 (#2 among P5) dropped from 67,000 average per game to 64,000 average per game. All P5 conferences suffered the decline with the Big 10's 3,000 loss being the smallest percentage wise.

I think most of the decline corresponded with a ballooning in season ticket prices though the contribution levels for the right to buy tickets stayed about the same, and because of the advent of HD Television which makes staying at home much more enjoyable, especially for older fans for which the heat can be an issue and for fans with small children for which the expense was a bit much to begin with.

No doubt COVID will accelerate this trend as people's habits have now been broken and many will have discovered the economic advantages of having friends over to watch the game on their new 75 inch HD TV.

Game day experiences have been going downhill since the money grubbing for spots to tailgate led to buying leases on a slip in which to hold one, and the atmosphere in all venues became artificially the same with the piped in music and crowd noise. When people buy a tailgating spot they get downright rude to the fans just walking to the game if you enter their space. Such an attitude never existed prior to charging for the space. And inside the stadium the artificial nose simply makes conversation with people you've sat next to for 40 years in our case damned near impossible as you have to cup your hands and yell into their ear to talk.

Fans will still attend but I wouldn't be surprised to see even more empty seats this year even where venues are back to full capacity.

Further troubling some patrons will be the recent spate of political gestures which have turned off part of the clientele base. I don't know what percentage, but it had an impact both on professional sports and I fully expect it to have one for college sports.

NIL will take a small percentage as well as some older people feel that if they are paid they aren't necessarily loyal to the school, as if they were anyway. Some athletes are and some aren't.

I raise these issues to say all that the NCAA, the courts, and politics have done is to toss gasoline on a trend that was already an evident and burning issue.

In fairness to the SEC's numbers a good % of the decline is attributable to two sources. Vanderbilt's lack of facility upgrades since 1981 and their in state rival's dumpster fire of a program where Neyland Stadium has seen way too many vacant seats in a facility that when filled holds a little over 102,000. But nationally the trend is evident no matter if it has been in the SEC or not, and it has.

I'm not sure we will see an attendance figure average in the SEC of 77,000 again in my lifetime if ever. TV money had better increase because gate is going to continue to decline.
04-30-2021 10:32 AM
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Bobcat2013 Offline
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RE: All About Attendance
I agree that we probably won't see pre covid level attendance outside of the SEC, Big Ten, and a few other individual P5s
04-30-2021 11:26 AM
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YNot Offline
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RE: All About Attendance
(04-30-2021 11:26 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  I agree that we probably won't see pre covid level attendance outside of the SEC, Big Ten, and a few other individual P5s

I expect BYU to be at pre-Covid levels. We have a good home schedule, including two rivals, Arizona State and the return of Bronco Mendenhall and his staff (Virginia) to Provo.

We quickly sold out our full-capacity ticket allotment to the Kickoff Classic v. Arizona in Vegas...as did Arizona. Not many lower-bowl tickets left (in the sections that were originally reserved for Raiders season ticket holders).
(This post was last modified: 04-30-2021 06:20 PM by YNot.)
04-30-2021 06:20 PM
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TexanMark Offline
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RE: All About Attendance
I think Syracuse will be down about 5K. Gov Cuomo has been opening up slowly. The new renovation will help lessen the impact some. After 40 years air conditioning comes to the Carrier Dome. Also they now can have real grills inside (couldn't with the air supported bubble), and ofcourse SOTA center hung video board.

If Cuse strings together 3-4 wins to start the year that'll help. The local non-alumni are bandwagoners.
04-30-2021 06:57 PM
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RE: All About Attendance
(04-30-2021 08:48 AM)bhutchcraft89 Wrote:  Absolutely love how K-State will go play for example at Stanford and for the return game then agree to a neutral site. Screws over the STH.

Louisville has been doing the neutral site game along with a home and home. For example we play Indiana in Indianapolis (with tickets split 50/50) in 2023 then we play at home then in Bloomington.

It doesn’t make any sense for a program like Kansas State not to negotiate home and homes or at least do a 1-1-1 like UofL does.
04-30-2021 08:06 PM
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