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Let’s realign conferences 1 school per state by - lesser non state school—never done
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #1
Let’s realign conferences 1 school per state by - lesser non state school—never done
For example:
Big 10 loses: northwestern, Purdue and Michigan St (3) down to 11
Big 12 loses: Kansas St, Ok St, TT, TCU and Baylor (5) down to (5)
SEC loses: Vanderbilt, Miss St, Auburn (3) down to 11
ACC loses: Miami, VT, Wake, NCSU and Duke (5) down to 9
PAC loses: Washington St, Oregon St, AZ St, one of Stanford, CAL, UCLA/USC (6) down to 6
AAC loses: SMU, USF (2) down to 9
MWC loses: UNLV, Air Force & 1 of SDSU/SJSU/Fresno (3) down to 9

The left behinds would be killer on the east Coast
(This post was last modified: 04-29-2021 12:00 AM by billybobby777.)
04-28-2021 11:47 PM
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Erictelevision Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Let’s realign conferences 1 school per state by - lesser non state school—never done
Here's where I'd move them

Merge the non-PAC P5 into a single conference
UNLV to Pac 12
AFA goes Indy
AAC and MWC sweep up CUSA and SBC schools that follow rule
Navy goes Indy
Remaining CUSA and SBC merge
(This post was last modified: 04-29-2021 03:33 AM by Erictelevision.)
04-29-2021 03:32 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Let’s realign conferences 1 school per state by - lesser non state school—never done
I can't wait to see how folks are going to move the seven Texas schools into the five conferences that do not already have a Texas school. That means there must be at least 2 new conferences, both of which must have at least 7 members from other states.
04-29-2021 02:36 PM
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whittx Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Let’s realign conferences 1 school per state by - lesser non state school—never done
At least you have no plans for the MAC, since sorting through the Ohio and Michigan schools would be a mess.
04-29-2021 02:57 PM
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ken d Offline
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RE: Let’s realign conferences 1 school per state
I didn't think it could be done, and hard as I tried, I couldn't do it without relegating 12 more schools to the ranks of independents. The best I could do was to create two new power conferences.

This is what I have (new schools in bold):

B1G (10):
Ohio State, Wisconsin, Michigan, Penn State, Iowa, Nebraska, Minnesota, Indiana, Illinois and Kansas State.

SEC (12):
Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky and NC State
Alabama, LSU, Missouri, Texas A&M, Ole Miss and Arkansas

ACC (12):
Clemson, Florida State, Louisville, Georgia Tech, North Carolina and TCU
Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, Virginia, Rutgers and Maryland

PAC (8):
Oregon, Washington, Utah, UCLA, Arizona, Colorado, Texas Tech and Nevada

Big XII (9):
Oklahoma State, Baylor, West Virginia, Iowa State, Kansas, Air Force, California, Mississippi State and Auburn

New #1 (8):
Notre Dame, Texas, Oklahoma, Michigan State, Southern Cal, Miami (FL), Virginia Tech and Cincinnati

New #2 (8):
Duke, Stanford, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Purdue, SMU, Ohio and Buffalo

*****************************************************************

The Group of Five was even more difficult.

AAC (9):
UCF, Temple, ECU, Houston, Navy, Memphis, Tulsa, Tulane and Miami (O)

MWC (12):
Boise State, Colorado State, Utah State, Wyoming, New Mexico and UTEP
San Diego St, Hawaii, UNLV, Washington St, Oregon St, and Arizona St

MAC (8):
Toledo, Northern Illinois, Western Michigan, Ball State, Marshall, Western Kentucky, Middle Tennessee and Wake Forest

SBC (9):
Appalachian State, Georgia Southern, Troy, Coastal Carolina, Arkansas State, Louisiana, Texas State, USF and Liberty

C-USA (8):
Louisiana Tech, Southern Miss, UAB, Rice, Florida Atlantic, Old Dominion, Charlotte, and Georgia State

*****************************************************************

Left behind:

Current Independents: UConn, UMass, Army, BYU and New Mexico State

New Independents: South Alabama, Central Michigan, Eastern Michigan, Bowling Green, Kent State, Akron, Florida International, Fresno State, San Jose State, North Texas, UTSA, and Louisiana-Monroe

I may have missed a few - this was hard.
04-29-2021 05:28 PM
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Rube Dali Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Let’s realign conferences 1 school per state by - lesser non state school—never done
Expounding on ken_d's idea of the leftovers...

Big East(12)
UConn, UMass, Army, BYU. New Mexico State, South Alabama, Central Michigan, Bowling Green, FIU, Fresno State, UTSA, UL-Monroe
04-29-2021 05:46 PM
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ken d Offline
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RE: Let’s realign conferences 1 school per state by - lesser non state school—never done
Actually, I guess I could have put BYU in the Big XII. Even though they are already independent voluntarily, that's in large part due to not wanting to viewed as being in a lesser conference than Utah. But with the PAC being gutted so severely they could now be viewed as peers.

Another option would be to put all the service academies in the AAC (adding UMass to bring them to 12 teams). But that option wouldn't have helped anyone that was involuntarily relegated.
(This post was last modified: 04-29-2021 06:47 PM by ken d.)
04-29-2021 06:39 PM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Let’s realign conferences 1 school per state by - lesser non state school—never done
ACC - Michigan State, NW, Louisville, Pitt, Syr, BC, Uva, UNC, Clemson, FSU, GT, Auburn - Perhaps with Navy and ND
SEC - KY, TN, Bama, Florida, WF, SC, LSU, Ole Miss, TAMU, Mizzou, Arkansas, Ok State - Perhaps West Virginia
B10 - Miami, NC State, VT, MD, Rutgers, PSU, OSU, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minn, Nebraska, Iowa
B12 - Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, USC, Iowa State, Arizona State, Purdue, Mississippi State, BYU
Pac 8 - UCLA, Oregon, Washington, Arizona, Utah, Colorado, TT, Iowa State

Independent / Airplane Conference - Stanford, Duke, TCU, Army, Tulane, Air Force, perhaps Navy and ND

Baylor, Washington State, Oregon State, and Kansas State to the Mountain West.

If Auburn, MSU, and NW are being kicked out, the ACC is closest to what they are accustomed to moreso than any other conference.

The SEC can't get VT and NC State if the Big 10 needs them to replace schools. Those two plus Miami and Vandy put the Big 10 network into play for NC, Va, TN and Florida.

The SEC needs a NC school and while Duke might seem better than WF, I'm not sure the SEC wants that headache. WF gets them in NC with interest in SW Virginia as well. Oklahoma State is the best the SEC can do relative to getting a second school in Texas since the B12 is keeping OU. Normally I would not put West Va here, but if the B12 is moving west, West Va becomes a bridge too far and West Va gets the SEC into Virginia, Western MD, Eastern Ohio, etc.

The Pacific is tough due to geography.

The Independents are really just a guess based on their various resources.

When you cap things at one school per state, you start to really skew the value of possible additions.
(This post was last modified: 04-29-2021 07:12 PM by Statefan.)
04-29-2021 06:59 PM
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ken d Offline
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RE: Let’s realign conferences 1 school per state by - lesser non state school—never done
(04-29-2021 05:28 PM)ken d Wrote:  I didn't think it could be done, and hard as I tried, I couldn't do it without relegating 12 more schools to the ranks of independents. The best I could do was to create two new power conferences.

This is what I have (new schools in bold):

B1G (10):
Ohio State, Wisconsin, Michigan, Penn State, Iowa, Nebraska, Minnesota, Indiana, Illinois and Kansas State.

SEC (12):
Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky and NC State
Alabama, LSU, Missouri, Texas A&M, Ole Miss and Arkansas

ACC (12):
Clemson, Florida State, Louisville, Georgia Tech, North Carolina and TCU
Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, Virginia, Rutgers and Maryland

PAC (8):
Oregon, Washington, Utah, UCLA, Arizona, Colorado, Texas Tech and Nevada

Big XII (9):
Oklahoma State, Baylor, West Virginia, Iowa State, Kansas, Air Force, California, Mississippi State and Auburn

New #1 (8):
Notre Dame, Texas, Oklahoma, Michigan State, Southern Cal, Miami (FL), Virginia Tech and Cincinnati

New #2 (8):
Duke, Stanford, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Purdue, SMU, Ohio and Buffalo

*****************************************************************

The Group of Five was even more difficult.

AAC (9):
UCF, Temple, ECU, Houston, Navy, Memphis, Tulsa, Tulane and Miami (O)

MWC (12):
Boise State, Colorado State, Utah State, Wyoming, New Mexico and UTEP
San Diego St, Hawaii, UNLV, Washington St, Oregon St, and Arizona St

MAC (8):
Toledo, Northern Illinois, Western Michigan, Ball State, Marshall, Western Kentucky, Middle Tennessee and Wake Forest

SBC (9):
Appalachian State, Georgia Southern, Troy, Coastal Carolina, Arkansas State, Louisiana, Texas State, USF and Liberty

C-USA (8):
Louisiana Tech, Southern Miss, UAB, Rice, Florida Atlantic, Old Dominion, Charlotte, and Georgia State

*****************************************************************

Left behind:

Current Independents: UConn, UMass, Army, BYU and New Mexico State

New Independents: South Alabama, Central Michigan, Eastern Michigan, Bowling Green, Kent State, Akron, Florida International, Fresno State, San Jose State, North Texas, UTSA, and Louisiana-Monroe

I may have missed a few - this was hard.

This new round of realignment hasn't yet played a game, and I feel a need to realign even further.

I managed to reduce the number of independents to 8 by creating another new conference with some creative scheduling. First, because the new rule of one per state creates geographic hardships, the number of required conference games is reduced to six, with the requirement for a full round robin removed.

The new (13th) conference takes six teams from the 12 team Mountain West, five from the ranks of new or old independents, one from the Big XII and one from the AAC. While it has 13 teams, Hawaii plays in both divisions and plays all its games at home (thus giving every other member an extra game). Navy, Army and Hawaii are football only members.

West: Air Force, Wyoming, New Mexico, Utah State, UNLV, Fresno St and Hawaii
East: Navy, Army, UMass, North Texas, Bowling Green, Central Michigan and Hawaii

UConn is added to the MAC as a football only member.

Former independents BYU and New Mexico State are added to the MWC to replace teams that became part of this new conference.

CCGs are eliminated, and there is a 16 team playoff that includes the 10 highest ranked conference champions plus 6 at large teams.
04-30-2021 09:20 AM
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schmolik Offline
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RE: Let’s realign conferences 1 school per state by - lesser non state school—never done
I'd say this concept is stupid except that in my home state of Pennsylvania the top five men's basketball schools (Villanova, Penn State, Pittsburgh, Temple, and St. Joseph's are in five different conferences (you can argue another school instead of St. Joseph's as #5 but they won't be in the same conference as any of the top four). While smaller schools such as Mississippi and Kansas get to enjoy in state rivalries, what's the best conference rivalry in PA? St. Joseph's-LaSalle? Lehigh-Lafayette? Temple has been blacklisted from the Big East with the exception of the time when they were invited before the Catholic 7 left (and took the name leaving Temple behind in the AAC). Also, why's Dayton not in the Big East? Is Creighton really a better school than Dayton? And of course you have the four ACC-SEC splits in Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, and South Carolina which will likely not be resolved in our lifetimes.
04-30-2021 08:11 PM
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DFW HOYA Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Let’s realign conferences 1 school per state by - lesser non state school—never done
(04-30-2021 08:11 PM)schmolik Wrote:  Temple has been blacklisted from the Big East with the exception of the time when they were invited before the Catholic 7 left (and took the name leaving Temple behind in the AAC). Also, why's Dayton not in the Big East? Is Creighton really a better school than Dayton?

1. Temple wasn't blacklisted, the Big East already had a team in Phila. It's like asking why George Washington isn't in the Big East.

2. Dayton is not in the Big East because the Dayton media market is small.

1. New York
3. Chicago
4. Philadelphia
9. Washington
25. Indianapolis
32. Hartford
36. Cincinnati
37. Milwaukee
52. Providence
........................

65. Dayton
04-30-2021 10:14 PM
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schmolik Offline
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RE: Let’s realign conferences 1 school per state by - lesser non state school—never done
(04-30-2021 10:14 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  
(04-30-2021 08:11 PM)schmolik Wrote:  Temple has been blacklisted from the Big East with the exception of the time when they were invited before the Catholic 7 left (and took the name leaving Temple behind in the AAC). Also, why's Dayton not in the Big East? Is Creighton really a better school than Dayton?

1. Temple wasn't blacklisted, the Big East already had a team in Phila. It's like asking why George Washington isn't in the Big East.

2. Dayton is not in the Big East because the Dayton media market is small.

1. New York
3. Chicago
4. Philadelphia
9. Washington
25. Indianapolis
32. Hartford
36. Cincinnati
37. Milwaukee
52. Providence
........................

65. Dayton

Where does Omaha rank?

Why did the old Big East need Rutgers as a full member? They already had Seton Hall in New Jersey and St. John's in the New York area. And are you comparing George Washington to Temple in men's basketball? Maybe today they are but not in the John Chaney era when they made three Elite Eights in six seasons.
(This post was last modified: 05-01-2021 05:04 AM by schmolik.)
05-01-2021 05:01 AM
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DFW HOYA Offline
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RE: Let’s realign conferences 1 school per state by - lesser non state school—never done
(05-01-2021 05:01 AM)schmolik Wrote:  Where does Omaha rank?

Why did the old Big East need Rutgers as a full member? They already had Seton Hall in New Jersey and St. John's in the New York area. And are you comparing George Washington to Temple in men's basketball? Maybe today they are but not in the John Chaney era when they made three Elite Eights in six seasons.

Omaha ranks #71 or #72, depending on the source. It was chosen because of significant lobbying by Creighton officials and as a closer geographic counterpart to DePaul and Marquette. Dayton is 45 mins. from Xavier and with the exception of NYC I don't think the Big East (read=Fox) saw any gain in a second Ohio team.

Why Rutgers? Rutgers was originally sought and turned it down in 1979, but was added for football, plain and simple. Rutgers is not really in the same footprint as St. John's and Seton Hall, and neither were playing football by this time.

Why (not) Temple? Temple was at an all-time low in football in the 1990's (once averaging less than 5,000 a game at the Vet) and the football schools really didn't push them for all-sports as they did West Virginia, Rutgers, and (for a few years, anyway), Virginia Tech. On the basketball side, there was little interest in adding a second Philadelphia team; I'm sure Villanova had a say in adding a local competitor.

Finally, Big East 1.0 and 2.0 was about relationships. Penn State was passed over, in no small part, because its athletic director (Joe Paterno) didn't get along with many of the other Big East AD's in football. The years of Charlie Theokas never elevated Temple in the eyes of the football AD's which controlled expansion--going 0-27 in its first five years as a football-only member didn't help, either.
(This post was last modified: 05-01-2021 09:14 AM by DFW HOYA.)
05-01-2021 09:01 AM
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schmolik Offline
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RE: Let’s realign conferences 1 school per state by - lesser non state school—never done
(05-01-2021 09:01 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  
(05-01-2021 05:01 AM)schmolik Wrote:  Where does Omaha rank?

Why did the old Big East need Rutgers as a full member? They already had Seton Hall in New Jersey and St. John's in the New York area. And are you comparing George Washington to Temple in men's basketball? Maybe today they are but not in the John Chaney era when they made three Elite Eights in six seasons.

Omaha ranks #71 or #72, depending on the source. It was chosen because of significant lobbying by Creighton officials and as a closer geographic counterpart to DePaul and Marquette. Dayton is 45 mins. from Xavier and with the exception of NYC I don't think the Big East (read=Fox) saw any gain in a second Ohio team.

Creighton closer to DePaul and Marquette than Dayton?

Creighton to DePaul: 473 mil, 7 hr, 2 min
Dayton to DePaul: 304 miles, 4 hr, 44 min

Creighton to Marquette: 509 mi, 7 hr, 12 min
Dayton to Marquette, 396 mi, 5 hr, 44 min
05-01-2021 09:50 AM
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schmolik Offline
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RE: Let’s realign conferences 1 school per state by - lesser non state school—never done
(05-01-2021 09:01 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  [quote='schmolik' pid='17406249' dateline='1619863286']

Why Rutgers? Rutgers was originally sought and turned it down in 1979, but was added for football, plain and simple. Rutgers is not really in the same footprint as St. John's and Seton Hall, and neither were playing football by this time.

Rutgers was already a football member. They didn't have to be an all sports member. Football is not a reason to add a school for other sports, you add them based on their strength in other sports especially the Big East's #1 sport, men's basketball.
05-01-2021 09:53 AM
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RE: Let’s realign conferences 1 school per state by - lesser non state school—never done
As a "semi-fan" of the Big East, I like having Creighton. But I also want the BE to add Dayton.
05-01-2021 10:24 AM
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Let’s realign conferences 1 school per state by - lesser non state school—never done
(04-28-2021 11:47 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  For example:
Big 10 loses: northwestern, Purdue and Michigan St (3) down to 11
Big 12 loses: Kansas St, Ok St, TT, TCU and Baylor (5) down to (5)
SEC loses: Vanderbilt, Miss St, Auburn (3) down to 11
ACC loses: Miami, VT, Wake, NCSU and Duke (5) down to 9
PAC loses: Washington St, Oregon St, AZ St, one of Stanford, CAL, UCLA/USC (6) down to 6
AAC loses: SMU, USF (2) down to 9
MWC loses: UNLV, Air Force & 1 of SDSU/SJSU/Fresno (3) down to 9

The left behinds would be killer on the east Coast
As a slight variation of that:

SEC
West - Missouri, Arkansas, Texas A&M, LSU, Mississippi, Alabama, Kansas
East - Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, NC State, Tennessee, Kentucky, Virginia Tech

B1G
West - Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Northwestern, TCU, USC
East - Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, Rutgers, Maryland, Indiana, North Carolina

ACC
West - Arizona State, Auburn, Baylor, Florida State, Louisville, Mississippi State, Stanford
East - Boston College, Clemson, Duke, Georgia Tech, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Virginia
Member, but not in football - Notre Dame

PAC
West - Washington, Oregon, UCLA, Arizona, Utah, Colorado
East - Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, Illinois, Purdue, Kansas State, Michigan State

XII
West - California, Oklahoma, Oregon State, Texas, Washington State
East - Miami, Iowa State, Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, West Virginia

The ACC and PAC seek to rebrand now that they are national conferences. The Big XII again stars taking applications to expand to 12 teams.[/b]
05-01-2021 10:36 AM
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