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What would an expanded playoff mean for the AAC?
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Fighting Muskie Online
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What would an expanded playoff mean for the AAC?
Hi folks!

If they playoff expands and the G5 get an autobid what does that mean for the AAC? Does it change the strategy as far as expansion goes?
04-28-2021 04:06 PM
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JHS55 Offline
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RE: What would an expanded playoff mean for the AAC?
well for houston it means better recruiting opportunitys
04-28-2021 04:22 PM
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RE: What would an expanded playoff mean for the AAC?
^ That goes for all conference teams. A while back I looked at 2021 ave. recruit ratings, and outside of Boise, the top team in each G4 would have finished 8th (at best) in the AAC. I was surprised at how strong (relatively) recruiting has been. Opening up a playoff spot would only widen the gap...having multiple draftees doesn’t hurt either.
(This post was last modified: 04-28-2021 09:39 PM by gulfcoastgal.)
04-28-2021 04:42 PM
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JHS55 Offline
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RE: What would an expanded playoff mean for the AAC?
(04-28-2021 04:42 PM)gulfcoastgal Wrote:  ^ That goes for all conference teams. A while back I looked at 2021 ave. recruit ratings, and outside of Boise, the top teams in each G4 would have finished 8th in the AAC. I was surprised at how strong (relatively) recruiting has been. Opening up a playoff spot would only widen the gap...having multiple draftees doesn’t hurt either.
the A5 will never allow a spot for the g5 because of recruiting, but if it happened it would change recruiting imo
04-28-2021 04:55 PM
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RE: What would an expanded playoff mean for the AAC?
So an expanded playoff without a G5 autobid means more of the same BS.
04-28-2021 05:12 PM
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RE: What would an expanded playoff mean for the AAC?
(04-28-2021 04:55 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 04:42 PM)gulfcoastgal Wrote:  ^ That goes for all conference teams. A while back I looked at 2021 ave. recruit ratings, and outside of Boise, the top teams in each G4 would have finished 8th in the AAC. I was surprised at how strong (relatively) recruiting has been. Opening up a playoff spot would only widen the gap...having multiple draftees doesn’t hurt either.
the A5 will never allow a spot for the g5 because of recruiting, but if it happened it would change recruiting imo

If they are going to go back to "automatic qualifier" status for the P5 champs---and they are almost certain to do so--they will have to give the G5 some sort of automatic access as well---otherwise it is a walking anti-trust violation. However, with the revelation that a 12 to 16 team playoff might be adopted---I think the G5 will see real legitimate access this time around no matter how its constructed. The Athletic article indicated that one BIG priority is guaranteed access for the P5 champs. The concern driving this desire is interesting. The power that be believe too few teams concentrated in one region of the country dominating the 4 playoff spots will turn college football into a regional sport. So, expect AQ for the P5 champs---and that almost certainly means some sort of AQ access for the G5.
(This post was last modified: 04-28-2021 07:00 PM by Attackcoog.)
04-28-2021 06:51 PM
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RE: What would an expanded playoff mean for the AAC?
(04-28-2021 06:51 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 04:55 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 04:42 PM)gulfcoastgal Wrote:  ^ That goes for all conference teams. A while back I looked at 2021 ave. recruit ratings, and outside of Boise, the top teams in each G4 would have finished 8th in the AAC. I was surprised at how strong (relatively) recruiting has been. Opening up a playoff spot would only widen the gap...having multiple draftees doesn’t hurt either.
the A5 will never allow a spot for the g5 because of recruiting, but if it happened it would change recruiting imo

If they are going to go back to "automatic qualifier" status for the P5 champs---and they are almost certain to do so--they will have to give the G5 some sort of automatic access as well---otherwise it is a walking anti-trust violation. However, with the revelation that a 12 to 16 team playoff might be adopted---I think the G5 will see real legitimate access this time around no matter how its constructed. The Athletic article indicated that one BIG priority is guaranteed access for the P5 champs. The concern driving this desire is interesting. The power that be believe too few teams concentrated in one region of the country dominating the 4 playoff spots will turn college football into a regional sport. So, expect AQ for the P5 champs---and that almost certainly means some sort of AQ access for the G5.

The CFP invitational will expand to 8 or more teams. A huge driver is the glaring perception of corruption in the manner the committee has chosen to exclude G5 teams with impunity. In 2012 it was easy to discard a crumbling Big East from the CFP deal. This time the AAC is relatively strong and will be the default G5 conference. However, to satiate SOS concerns, the CFP committee may suggest rules that the G5 rep will have to have top P5 teams on its schedule or the slot would go to Notre Dame or BYU, whichever is ranked higher.
(This post was last modified: 04-28-2021 10:26 PM by Acres.)
04-28-2021 10:21 PM
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RE: What would an expanded playoff mean for the AAC?
(04-28-2021 10:21 PM)Acres Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 06:51 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 04:55 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 04:42 PM)gulfcoastgal Wrote:  ^ That goes for all conference teams. A while back I looked at 2021 ave. recruit ratings, and outside of Boise, the top teams in each G4 would have finished 8th in the AAC. I was surprised at how strong (relatively) recruiting has been. Opening up a playoff spot would only widen the gap...having multiple draftees doesn’t hurt either.
the A5 will never allow a spot for the g5 because of recruiting, but if it happened it would change recruiting imo

If they are going to go back to "automatic qualifier" status for the P5 champs---and they are almost certain to do so--they will have to give the G5 some sort of automatic access as well---otherwise it is a walking anti-trust violation. However, with the revelation that a 12 to 16 team playoff might be adopted---I think the G5 will see real legitimate access this time around no matter how its constructed. The Athletic article indicated that one BIG priority is guaranteed access for the P5 champs. The concern driving this desire is interesting. The power that be believe too few teams concentrated in one region of the country dominating the 4 playoff spots will turn college football into a regional sport. So, expect AQ for the P5 champs---and that almost certainly means some sort of AQ access for the G5.

The CFP invitational will expand to 8 or more teams. A huge driver is the glaring perception of corruption in the manner the committee has chosen to exclude G5 teams with impunity. In 2012 it was easy to discard a crumbling Big East from the CFP deal. This time the AAC is relatively strong and will be the default G5 conference. However, to satiate SOS concerns, the CFP committee may suggest rules that the G5 rep will have to have top P5 teams on its schedule or the slot would go to Notre Dame or BYU, whichever is ranked higher.

Nah. The Big Boys have lost every single court fight dealing with anti-trust issues over the last 3 or 4 years. If they give every P5 champ an AQ slot---then the G5 will get a guaranteed slot. As Ive said before, they may have to be careful how its worded to avoid anti-trust issues. One way to do it in a 12 team configuration is to give the top 6 or 7 conference champs automatic qualifier. That gives the P5 champs as close to guaranteed annual access as possible without just saying it. I cant imagine a any P5 champion finishing the season as the 8th highest ranked champion. Honestly, just taking the top 6 champs is probably enough to guarantee all the P5 champs get in every year.
(This post was last modified: 04-28-2021 11:26 PM by Attackcoog.)
04-28-2021 11:25 PM
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RE: What would an expanded playoff mean for the AAC?
(04-28-2021 11:25 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  If they give every P5 champ an AQ slot---then the G5 will get a guaranteed slot. ...they may have to be careful how its worded to avoid anti-trust issues. One way to do it ... is to give the top 6 or 7 conference champs automatic qualifier.

That gives the P5 champs as close to guaranteed annual access as possible without just saying it. I cant imagine a any P5 champion finishing the season as the 8th highest ranked champion. Honestly, just taking the top 6 champs is probably enough to guarantee all the P5 champs get in every year.

With the current 4-team CFP model being authorized (and perhaps expected) to persist for five more years, the only body with the authority to modify the CFP format before 2025 is the CFP Management Committee, headed by Executive Director Bill Hancock, according to Hancock's statement in the past week.

The members of the CFP Management Committee are 11 University Presidents - - 5 of which represent G5 schools/conferences, and 1 of which represents a PAC-12 school. If the PAC-12 Presidents were to vote alongside the G5 committee members, a vote in favor of an expanded CFP could pass by a 6-5 vote.

Given how infrequently a PAC-12 has made it to the CFP, it would certainly seem to be in the PAC-12's interest to vote for a measure that would (a) expand the CFP from 4 to at least 6 or 8 teams; and (b) include a provision for an auto-bid for each of the P5 conferences.

The G5 Presidents would have good reason to support such a motion if it were to include a provision to add an auto-bid for at least one G5 school, although the G4 Presidents might not support such a provision unless it were to give all of the G5 teams an equal shot at winning the automatic bid.

Questions:

1) How likely do you think it is that the CFP Management Committee will vote to approve a motion to expand the CFP at some point before the current system is set to expire in 2025/26?

2) If they do approve a motion to expand the CFP before 2026, would you expect it to be more likely to simply expand the number of teams in the CFP, or to include a provision for the six top teams from the ACC, Big-12, Big Ten, SEC, PAC-12, and G5 conferences to receive auto-bids?

3) How likely would it be that the Presidents of the G4 schools would vote for a motion that would provide an auto-bid for (a) the champion of the top-ranked G5 conference, as opposed to (b) the top-ranked G5 team that won a conference championship, or © the highest-ranked G5 team, overall?

--The G4 Presidents on the committee might be more likely to support option (b) or ©, since option (a) would make it more difficult for the top G4 team to receive a CFP auto-bid.

4) If the committee were to expand the CFP and authorize a minimum of 6 auto-bids,would you expect them to be more likely to approve auto-bids for conference champions, or to approve auto-bids for the six highest-ranked ACC, Big-12, Big Ten, SEC, PAC-12, and G5 teams?

--This question arises because team selection for the 4-team CFP is based on CFP rankings, rather than on conference champions, and there might be considerable resistance to an expansion proposal that would run the risk of leaving some of the top-ranked teams out of the CFP playoffs.

5) Do you think that there would be any likelihood that an AAC represenatative, such as Commissioner Aresco or SMU's President (who sits on the CFP Management Committee) might attempt to persuade the G4 and PAC-12 Presidents on the CFP committee to support a motion by a 6-5 majority to hold the votes required to expand the CFP?

--If so, would you be at all inclined to expect that such an effort may have already begun?

--If not, would it be more likely that such attempts have (a) failed or (b) would have no chance to succeed, or that © the AAC is unwilling to go out on a limb in an attempt to move such a motion forward?

.
(This post was last modified: 04-29-2021 06:23 AM by jedclampett.)
04-29-2021 05:35 AM
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RE: What would an expanded playoff mean for the AAC?
There will never be an autobid for the G5 in the CFP.

But either way UCF would still want to go to a better conference because of the TV money.
04-29-2021 06:56 AM
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RE: What would an expanded playoff mean for the AAC?
(04-29-2021 06:56 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  There will never be an autobid for the G5 in the CFP.


Glibly and condescendingly stated; a classic example of "naysaying."

.....................................................................................................


glib: fluent and easy, often in an insincere or deceptive way

condescending: showing or implying a usually patronizing descent from dignity or superiority

naysayer: one who opposes, refuses, or denies, esp. habitually

https://www.collinsdictionary.com


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“When others tell you, 'you can't', they actually fear that you can and are even more afraid that you will.”
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(04-29-2021 06:56 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  But either way UCF would still want to go to a better conference because of the TV money.

UCF is just one of a myriad number of universities that want to be scooped up by power conferences, but it is probably less likely to succeed than the schools that have previously been members of power conferences (e.g., Cincinnati & Houston) and/or have a well-established record of success in basketball, as well as football (e.g., Cincinnati, Houston, & Memphis).


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04-29-2021 08:09 AM
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RE: What would an expanded playoff mean for the AAC?
With everything that has happened on the last 5-10 years, what would make people thing that they would ever give up a spot in their CFP to the G5?
04-29-2021 08:21 AM
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RE: What would an expanded playoff mean for the AAC?
An expanded playoff if it includes access to the highest ranked champion as the NY6 bowl currently does, would be huge for the AAC and its schools in recruiting and exposure. I think it would also be the move that could get BYU to join and for the league to increase revenues.
04-29-2021 10:22 AM
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RE: What would an expanded playoff mean for the AAC?
(04-28-2021 04:22 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  well for houston it means better recruiting opportunitys

it would mean better recruiting for all of us. From ECU's perspective, we're competing for our top recruits (high-3, low-4 star guys) against WVU, VT, SC, UNC, NC State, etc. If history is any indication (that the AAC holds the G5 bid most years, and that our champs rotate more often than the ACC/SEC/etc), then a recruit stands a better chance of playing in a playoff game on an AAC roster under an auto-bid scenario than on any of the rosters listed above.

Like many have said, remains to be seen whether P5 conferences will still go for expansion to get more of their teams in, even if it means letting us in as well. The next 12 months will be interesting.

I find it unlikely that the CFP goes beyond 8 teams. A 5-1 6-team format could happen just to piss everyone off, but don't really see 10/12/16 happening. I also doubt they'd go straight 8 at-large, because they don't want to water down the appeal of conference championships.

5-1-2 keeps all FBS fans interested, maintains value of conference championships, and makes the current dead-end NY6 bowls more watchable. It makes too much sense.

I've said this one before. 3-year rotation. A NY6 bowl is a quarter-final 2 years and a semi for 1 every 3 years. Everyone gets more ratings and sponsorship dollars.
04-29-2021 10:28 AM
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RE: What would an expanded playoff mean for the AAC?
(04-29-2021 05:35 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 11:25 PM)Attackcoog
The members of the CFP Management Committee are 11 University Presidents - - 5 of which represent G5 schools/conferences, and 1 of which represents a PAC-12 school.
[b' Wrote:  
If the PAC-12 Presidents were to vote alongside the G5 committee members, a vote in favor of an expanded CFP could pass by a 6-5 vote.[/b]

Unfortunately, it would not be a 6-5 vote. As someone correctly pointed out in another message stream, the autonomy conferences each have 2 votes, the non-autonomy conferences each have 1 vote, and Notre Dame has 1 vote.

Five non-autonomy conferences plus the Pac-12 equals 7 votes. There would still be 9 votes undetermined at that point. Therefore, the non-autonomy five plus two autonomy conferences is the minimum passing configuration assuming the non-autonomy conferences vote as a block.
04-29-2021 02:31 PM
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RE: What would an expanded playoff mean for the AAC?
(04-29-2021 02:31 PM)hammannja Wrote:  
(04-29-2021 05:35 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 11:25 PM)Attackcoog
The members of the CFP Management Committee are 11 University Presidents - - 5 of which represent G5 schools/conferences, and 1 of which represents a PAC-12 school.
[b' Wrote:  
If the PAC-12 Presidents were to vote alongside the G5 committee members, a vote in favor of an expanded CFP could pass by a 6-5 vote.[/b]

Unfortunately, it would not be a 6-5 vote. As someone correctly pointed out in another message stream, the autonomy conferences each have 2 votes, the non-autonomy conferences each have 1 vote, and Notre Dame has 1 vote.

Five non-autonomy conferences plus the Pac-12 equals 7 votes. There would still be 9 votes undetermined at that point. Therefore, the non-autonomy five plus two autonomy conferences is the minimum passing configuration assuming the non-autonomy conferences vote as a block.

Thanks for the update. Now I know.

To be honest, the more I learn about the ways the P5s have gamed the system it becomes even more absolutely vile & disgusting.

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04-29-2021 02:39 PM
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RE: What would an expanded playoff mean for the AAC?
(04-29-2021 02:31 PM)hammannja Wrote:  
(04-29-2021 05:35 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 11:25 PM)Attackcoog
The members of the CFP Management Committee are 11 University Presidents - - 5 of which represent G5 schools/conferences, and 1 of which represents a PAC-12 school.
[b' Wrote:  
If the PAC-12 Presidents were to vote alongside the G5 committee members, a vote in favor of an expanded CFP could pass by a 6-5 vote.[/b]

Unfortunately, it would not be a 6-5 vote. As someone correctly pointed out in another message stream, the autonomy conferences each have 2 votes, the non-autonomy conferences each have 1 vote, and Notre Dame has 1 vote.

Five non-autonomy conferences plus the Pac-12 equals 7 votes. There would still be 9 votes undetermined at that point. Therefore, the non-autonomy five plus two autonomy conferences is the minimum passing configuration assuming the non-autonomy conferences vote as a block.

Plus, I'm not sure where anyone is getting that the Pac-12 would vote with the G5. The Pac-12 has an ironclad alliance with the Big Ten. They're more likely to be concerned about how the Rose Bowl is integrated into the new playoff system than these other issues.

That being said, I think whatever playoff system we end up with (8 teams or 12 teams) will have P5 champ auto-bids and 1 slot for the top G5 champ. The G5 slot is the bargain for allowing guaranteed P5 champ auto-bids (or else they'll just keep the current system or go to a straight rankings system even in an expanded format).
04-29-2021 03:02 PM
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RE: What would an expanded playoff mean for the AAC?
(04-29-2021 03:02 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(04-29-2021 02:31 PM)hammannja Wrote:  
(04-29-2021 05:35 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 11:25 PM)Attackcoog
The members of the CFP Management Committee are 11 University Presidents - - 5 of which represent G5 schools/conferences, and 1 of which represents a PAC-12 school.
[b' Wrote:  
If the PAC-12 Presidents were to vote alongside the G5 committee members, a vote in favor of an expanded CFP could pass by a 6-5 vote.[/b]

Unfortunately, it would not be a 6-5 vote. As someone correctly pointed out in another message stream, the autonomy conferences each have 2 votes, the non-autonomy conferences each have 1 vote, and Notre Dame has 1 vote.

Five non-autonomy conferences plus the Pac-12 equals 7 votes. There would still be 9 votes undetermined at that point. Therefore, the non-autonomy five plus two autonomy conferences is the minimum passing configuration assuming the non-autonomy conferences vote as a block.

Plus, I'm not sure where anyone is getting that the Pac-12 would vote with the G5. The Pac-12 has an ironclad alliance with the Big Ten. They're more likely to be concerned about how the Rose Bowl is integrated into the new playoff system than these other issues.

That being said, I think whatever playoff system we end up with (8 teams or 12 teams) will have P5 champ auto-bids and 1 slot for the top G5 champ. The G5 slot is the bargain for allowing guaranteed P5 champ auto-bids (or else they'll just keep the current system or go to a straight rankings system even in an expanded format).

This kind of thing makes me so sick of the patronizing b@$t@rd$ who run the P5 - and their network minion$ - that I'm starting to not even give a damn about the CFP playoffs any more.

Screw the CFP. We don't need their friggin' token playoff game. Hell with them! Sick to death of them and their abuse. I don't want to have anything to do with them any more!

Frankly, I'm more than content to just watch the 65 G5 and FBS independents play. To hell with Alabama and Ohio State and the rest of those cheating b@$t@rd$!!!

The idea of the 65 non-P5 FBS programs just chucking the whole thing and setting up their own separate FBS league is looking more and more appealing every day.

Tired of begging and pleading and being so incredibly grateful 01-ncaabbs if we just get a few measly scraps from off their table. Bastante! 01-lauramac2

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(This post was last modified: 04-29-2021 04:14 PM by jedclampett.)
04-29-2021 03:55 PM
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RE: What would an expanded playoff mean for the AAC?
(04-29-2021 03:02 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(04-29-2021 02:31 PM)hammannja Wrote:  Unfortunately, it would not be a 6-5 vote. As someone correctly pointed out in another message stream, the autonomy conferences each have 2 votes, the non-autonomy conferences each have 1 vote, and Notre Dame has 1 vote.

Five non-autonomy conferences plus the Pac-12 equals 7 votes. There would still be 9 votes undetermined at that point. Therefore, the non-autonomy five plus two autonomy conferences is the minimum passing configuration assuming the non-autonomy conferences vote as a block.

Plus, I'm not sure where anyone is getting that the Pac-12 would vote with the G5. The Pac-12 has an ironclad alliance with the Big Ten. They're more likely to be concerned about how the Rose Bowl is integrated into the new playoff system than these other issues.

Agree on both points. If an expanded play-off waters down the prestige of the Rose Bowl, which it very well may, both the Big Ten and the Pac-12 will have two competing internal agendas even among their own membership, but will almost certainly vote together when it comes to that.
04-29-2021 05:13 PM
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RE: What would an expanded playoff mean for the AAC?
(04-29-2021 05:13 PM)hammannja Wrote:  
(04-29-2021 03:02 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  [quote='hammannja' pid='17404245' dateline='1619724662']
Unfortunately, it would not be a 6-5 vote. As someone correctly pointed out in another message stream, the autonomy conferences each have 2 votes, the non-autonomy conferences each have 1 vote, and Notre Dame has 1 vote.

Five non-autonomy conferences plus the Pac-12 equals 7 votes. There would still be 9 votes undetermined at that point. Therefore, the non-autonomy five plus two autonomy conferences is the minimum passing configuration assuming the non-autonomy conferences vote as a block.

Plus, I'm not sure where anyone is getting that the Pac-12 would vote with the G5. The Pac-12 has an ironclad alliance with the Big Ten. They're more likely to be concerned about how the Rose Bowl is integrated into the new playoff system than these other issues.

I respect Frank a lot, but I'm from a Big Ten family and State, and nothing will threaten the bowl alliance with the PAC-12. The idea that the PAC-12 would put their bowl alliance ahead of their own self-interest in having a team in the CFP seems pretty absurd to me.

The PAC-12 is not that self-sacrificing, and they're not that stupid, either.

(04-29-2021 05:13 PM)hammannja Wrote:  Agree on both points. If an expanded play-off waters down the prestige of the Rose Bowl, which it very well may, both the Big Ten and the Pac-12 will have two competing internal agendas even among their own membership, but will almost certainly vote together when it comes to that.

Again, I grew up in the Big Ten. I know it inside and out. The idea that anything like an expanded CFP playoff is going to threaten the prestige of the Rose Bowl is even more absurd than the idea that the PAC-12 will defend the "prestige" of the Rose Bowl even if it has to sacrifice itself to do so.

Gentlemen - - I'm sorry, but I've probably been following college football longer than either of you have and this stuff is complete and utter balderdash!

The truth is that the prestige of the Rose Bowl doesn't have to be defended, and no one could possibly defend it if they tried to, either.

The Rose Bowl is like the Olympic Games. It stands head and shoulders above all these petty little disputes.

People try to pretend that the CFP Championship game is more important than the Rose Bowl, but they've got it completely backwards - - the Rose Bowl is real, and it always has been. In comparison, the CFP is phony and pathetic, and the PAC-12 schools know that.

Give me back the days when we had four major bowl games, and people argued about who the true champion. That was a lot more fun and interesting than all this ridiculous money bu$ine$$.
(This post was last modified: 04-29-2021 10:04 PM by jedclampett.)
04-29-2021 10:03 PM
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