Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
P5 Publics with Smallest State Support
Author Message
LostInSpace Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 743
Joined: Sep 2004
Reputation: 25
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #41
RE: P5 Publics with Smallest State Support
(04-29-2021 02:11 PM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  
(04-29-2021 02:05 PM)LostInSpace Wrote:  
(04-29-2021 07:17 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 05:04 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 11:59 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  Here is a full listing of all the states with P5 Public schools, in order by Population per P5 School, lowest to highest:

The States listed by Lowest Population per Public P5 University:

Kansas 1,470,432 (2,940,864 divided over 2 Public P5 schools)
Mississippi 1,481,958 (2,963,916 over 2 schools)
Iowa 1,596,204 (3,192,408 over 2 schools)
West Virginia 1,795,048 (1,795,048 over 1 school)
Nebraska 1,963,332 (1,963,332 over 1 school)
Oklahoma 1,981,758 (3,963,518 over 2 schools)
Oregon 2,120,751 (4,241,502 over 2 schools)
Kentucky 2,254,671 (4,509,342 over 2 schools)
Alabama 2,515,027 (5,030,054 over 2 schools)
South Carolina 2,562,357 (5,124,714 over 2 schools)
Arkansas 3,013,758 (3,013,758 over 1 school)
Utah 3,275,252 (3,275,252 over 1 school)
Indiana 3,395,142 (6,796,284 over 2 schools)
Arizona 3,579,462 (7,158,964 over 2 schools)
Washington 3,857,975 (7,715,950 over 2 schools)
Virginia 4,327,274 (8,654,548 over 2 schools)
Louisiana 4,661,468 (4,661,468 over 1 school)
Michigan 5,042,220 (10,084,440 over 2 schools)
North Carolina 5,226,978 (10,453,956 over 2 schools)
Georgia 5,362,637 (10,725,274 over 2 schools)
Minnesota 5,709,752 (5,709,752 over 1 school)
Colorado 5,782,168 (5,782,168 over 1 school)
Wisconsin 5,897,472 (5,897,472 over 1 school)
Missouri 6,160,280 (6,160,280 over 1 school)
Maryland 6,185,280 (6,185,280 over 1 school)
Tennessee 6,916,896 (6,916,896 over 1 school)
New Jersey 9,294,492 (9,294,492 over 1 school)
Texas 9,727,760 (29,183,280 over 3 schools)
Florida 10,785,264 (21,570,528 over 2 schools)
Ohio 11,808,859 (11,808,859 over 1 school)
Illinois 12,822,744 (12,822,744 over 1 school)
Pennsylvania 13,011,852 (13,011,852 over 1 school)
California 19,788,366 (39,576,732 over 2 schools)

Pittsburgh in PA so PA has 2 P5 public schools.

If we are discussing "fan support" potential, this is assuming that all public universities in the same state are "equal". In Texas, UT is certainly more popular than A&M and Tech (A&M is very popular, Tech lags). In Oklahoma, U of O is clearly the top dog. In other states, it might be more 50-50 (Arizona comes to mind).

Overall, Kansas is the #1 school in their state but in football we know they're pretty bad which makes Kansas State relevant (in men's basketball Wichita State might be more popular than KSU). I would think Iowa owns their state but it could be my Big Ten bias. I'd have to think Mississippi is more popular than Mississippi State but by how much I have no idea. What public university(universities) would have the smallest fan base based on population if you allot them "appropriately"?

Pitt is Private. They regard themselves as Private and they do not release data for public consumption.

The subject is not fan support. Per-Capita Taxpayer support is not proxied by Fan Support. And obvious to everyone is the fact that any shortage (or reduction) of taxpayer support to a public university can be compensated in many ways. But 2 P5 public schools operating within a comparatively small state, especially where the state is not growing, places added pressure on fans (and corporations) for donations and ticket sales.

Pitt, Temple and Penn State only disclose limited information because they are largely exempt from state open records law. They are neither fully public or private but are defined as “state-related” in PA code. Basically those schools and Lincoln agree to limited disclosure, plus state representation on their boards in return for an annual appropriation. What Pitt discloses has nothing to do with how they view themselves.
Boy, I don't see why other public universities don't try that cover. Nothing like having your cake and eating it too.

Lincoln, Temple and Pitt were private universities before they became state-related. Penn State started private and then had something similar to the current state-related status prior to the legislature creating the Commonwealth University system. The state legislature would never agree to the same deal for the PA’s true public universities (the PASSHE schools) and I wouldn’t expect any other state to agree to the same for their wholly public universities either. At a minimum it would be a nightmare trying to figure out the finances of such a transaction.
04-29-2021 02:32 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DawgNBama Offline
the Rush Limbaugh of CSNBBS
*

Posts: 3,974
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation: 124
I Root For: common sense
Location: common sense
Post: #42
RE: P5 Publics with Smallest State Support
(04-29-2021 02:11 PM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  
(04-29-2021 02:05 PM)LostInSpace Wrote:  
(04-29-2021 07:17 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 05:04 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 11:59 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  Here is a full listing of all the states with P5 Public schools, in order by Population per P5 School, lowest to highest:

The States listed by Lowest Population per Public P5 University:

Kansas 1,470,432 (2,940,864 divided over 2 Public P5 schools)
Mississippi 1,481,958 (2,963,916 over 2 schools)
Iowa 1,596,204 (3,192,408 over 2 schools)
West Virginia 1,795,048 (1,795,048 over 1 school)
Nebraska 1,963,332 (1,963,332 over 1 school)
Oklahoma 1,981,758 (3,963,518 over 2 schools)
Oregon 2,120,751 (4,241,502 over 2 schools)
Kentucky 2,254,671 (4,509,342 over 2 schools)
Alabama 2,515,027 (5,030,054 over 2 schools)
South Carolina 2,562,357 (5,124,714 over 2 schools)
Arkansas 3,013,758 (3,013,758 over 1 school)
Utah 3,275,252 (3,275,252 over 1 school)
Indiana 3,395,142 (6,796,284 over 2 schools)
Arizona 3,579,462 (7,158,964 over 2 schools)
Washington 3,857,975 (7,715,950 over 2 schools)
Virginia 4,327,274 (8,654,548 over 2 schools)
Louisiana 4,661,468 (4,661,468 over 1 school)
Michigan 5,042,220 (10,084,440 over 2 schools)
North Carolina 5,226,978 (10,453,956 over 2 schools)
Georgia 5,362,637 (10,725,274 over 2 schools)
Minnesota 5,709,752 (5,709,752 over 1 school)
Colorado 5,782,168 (5,782,168 over 1 school)
Wisconsin 5,897,472 (5,897,472 over 1 school)
Missouri 6,160,280 (6,160,280 over 1 school)
Maryland 6,185,280 (6,185,280 over 1 school)
Tennessee 6,916,896 (6,916,896 over 1 school)
New Jersey 9,294,492 (9,294,492 over 1 school)
Texas 9,727,760 (29,183,280 over 3 schools)
Florida 10,785,264 (21,570,528 over 2 schools)
Ohio 11,808,859 (11,808,859 over 1 school)
Illinois 12,822,744 (12,822,744 over 1 school)
Pennsylvania 13,011,852 (13,011,852 over 1 school)
California 19,788,366 (39,576,732 over 2 schools)

Pittsburgh in PA so PA has 2 P5 public schools.

If we are discussing "fan support" potential, this is assuming that all public universities in the same state are "equal". In Texas, UT is certainly more popular than A&M and Tech (A&M is very popular, Tech lags). In Oklahoma, U of O is clearly the top dog. In other states, it might be more 50-50 (Arizona comes to mind).

Overall, Kansas is the #1 school in their state but in football we know they're pretty bad which makes Kansas State relevant (in men's basketball Wichita State might be more popular than KSU). I would think Iowa owns their state but it could be my Big Ten bias. I'd have to think Mississippi is more popular than Mississippi State but by how much I have no idea. What public university(universities) would have the smallest fan base based on population if you allot them "appropriately"?

Pitt is Private. They regard themselves as Private and they do not release data for public consumption.

The subject is not fan support. Per-Capita Taxpayer support is not proxied by Fan Support. And obvious to everyone is the fact that any shortage (or reduction) of taxpayer support to a public university can be compensated in many ways. But 2 P5 public schools operating within a comparatively small state, especially where the state is not growing, places added pressure on fans (and corporations) for donations and ticket sales.

Pitt, Temple and Penn State only disclose limited information because they are largely exempt from state open records law. They are neither fully public or private but are defined as “state-related” in PA code. Basically those schools and Lincoln agree to limited disclosure, plus state representation on their boards in return for an annual appropriation. What Pitt discloses has nothing to do with how they view themselves.
Boy, I don't see why other public universities don't try that cover. Nothing like having your cake and eating it too.

While some state universities may actually want this, the average state populace does not, because they are more familiar with what their state did with their public institutions for years, IMO.
Excellent example of this is when I posted on the ACC board that the Georgia Institute of Technology should become a state related institution for the state of Georgia. Many posters were opposed to the idea, even though I pointed out its benefits for the Georgia Institute of Technology.
04-29-2021 02:36 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bill dazzle Offline
Craft beer and urban living enthusiast
*

Posts: 3,613
Joined: Aug 2016
Reputation: 249
I Root For: VUMemIUDePaulNC
Location: Nashville
Post: #43
RE: P5 Publics with Smallest State Support
(04-29-2021 06:47 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 05:57 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 05:04 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 11:59 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  Here is a full listing of all the states with P5 Public schools, in order by Population per P5 School, lowest to highest:

The States listed by Lowest Population per Public P5 University:

Kansas 1,470,432 (2,940,864 divided over 2 Public P5 schools)
Mississippi 1,481,958 (2,963,916 over 2 schools)
Iowa 1,596,204 (3,192,408 over 2 schools)
West Virginia 1,795,048 (1,795,048 over 1 school)
Nebraska 1,963,332 (1,963,332 over 1 school)
Oklahoma 1,981,758 (3,963,518 over 2 schools)
Oregon 2,120,751 (4,241,502 over 2 schools)
Kentucky 2,254,671 (4,509,342 over 2 schools)
Alabama 2,515,027 (5,030,054 over 2 schools)
South Carolina 2,562,357 (5,124,714 over 2 schools)
Arkansas 3,013,758 (3,013,758 over 1 school)
Utah 3,275,252 (3,275,252 over 1 school)
Indiana 3,395,142 (6,796,284 over 2 schools)
Arizona 3,579,462 (7,158,964 over 2 schools)
Washington 3,857,975 (7,715,950 over 2 schools)
Virginia 4,327,274 (8,654,548 over 2 schools)
Louisiana 4,661,468 (4,661,468 over 1 school)
Michigan 5,042,220 (10,084,440 over 2 schools)
North Carolina 5,226,978 (10,453,956 over 2 schools)
Georgia 5,362,637 (10,725,274 over 2 schools)
Minnesota 5,709,752 (5,709,752 over 1 school)
Colorado 5,782,168 (5,782,168 over 1 school)
Wisconsin 5,897,472 (5,897,472 over 1 school)
Missouri 6,160,280 (6,160,280 over 1 school)
Maryland 6,185,280 (6,185,280 over 1 school)
Tennessee 6,916,896 (6,916,896 over 1 school)
New Jersey 9,294,492 (9,294,492 over 1 school)
Texas 9,727,760 (29,183,280 over 3 schools)
Florida 10,785,264 (21,570,528 over 2 schools)
Ohio 11,808,859 (11,808,859 over 1 school)
Illinois 12,822,744 (12,822,744 over 1 school)
Pennsylvania 13,011,852 (13,011,852 over 1 school)
California 19,788,366 (39,576,732 over 2 schools)

Pittsburgh in PA so PA has 2 P5 public schools.

If we are discussing "fan support" potential, this is assuming that all public universities in the same state are "equal". In Texas, UT is certainly more popular than A&M and Tech (A&M is very popular, Tech lags). In Oklahoma, U of O is clearly the top dog. In other states, it might be more 50-50 (Arizona comes to mind).

Overall, Kansas is the #1 school in their state but in football we know they're pretty bad which makes Kansas State relevant (in men's basketball Wichita State might be more popular than KSU). I would think Iowa owns their state but it could be my Big Ten bias. I'd have to think Mississippi is more popular than Mississippi State but by how much I have no idea. What public university(universities) would have the smallest fan base based on population if you allot them "appropriately"?



Isn't the U of Pittsburgh a "hybrid" (part public and part private)?

Pitt considers themselves Private and does not release data as all the Publics do.


That's what I thought. Pitt receives some state funding to provide scholarships for in-state students — thus the "state related" designation. But it seems as much private as it does public. My brother-in-law's nephew is a UPitt student, who sees it as more private. Maybe it's subjective (to an extent)
(This post was last modified: 04-29-2021 03:56 PM by bill dazzle.)
04-29-2021 03:50 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bill dazzle Offline
Craft beer and urban living enthusiast
*

Posts: 3,613
Joined: Aug 2016
Reputation: 249
I Root For: VUMemIUDePaulNC
Location: Nashville
Post: #44
RE: P5 Publics with Smallest State Support
(04-29-2021 07:15 AM)whittx Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 09:49 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 06:16 PM)Todor Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 05:04 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 11:59 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  Here is a full listing of all the states with P5 Public schools, in order by Population per P5 School, lowest to highest:

The States listed by Lowest Population per Public P5 University:

Kansas 1,470,432 (2,940,864 divided over 2 Public P5 schools)
Mississippi 1,481,958 (2,963,916 over 2 schools)
Iowa 1,596,204 (3,192,408 over 2 schools)
West Virginia 1,795,048 (1,795,048 over 1 school)
Nebraska 1,963,332 (1,963,332 over 1 school)
Oklahoma 1,981,758 (3,963,518 over 2 schools)
Oregon 2,120,751 (4,241,502 over 2 schools)
Kentucky 2,254,671 (4,509,342 over 2 schools)
Alabama 2,515,027 (5,030,054 over 2 schools)
South Carolina 2,562,357 (5,124,714 over 2 schools)
Arkansas 3,013,758 (3,013,758 over 1 school)
Utah 3,275,252 (3,275,252 over 1 school)
Indiana 3,395,142 (6,796,284 over 2 schools)
Arizona 3,579,462 (7,158,964 over 2 schools)
Washington 3,857,975 (7,715,950 over 2 schools)
Virginia 4,327,274 (8,654,548 over 2 schools)
Louisiana 4,661,468 (4,661,468 over 1 school)
Michigan 5,042,220 (10,084,440 over 2 schools)
North Carolina 5,226,978 (10,453,956 over 2 schools)
Georgia 5,362,637 (10,725,274 over 2 schools)
Minnesota 5,709,752 (5,709,752 over 1 school)
Colorado 5,782,168 (5,782,168 over 1 school)
Wisconsin 5,897,472 (5,897,472 over 1 school)
Missouri 6,160,280 (6,160,280 over 1 school)
Maryland 6,185,280 (6,185,280 over 1 school)
Tennessee 6,916,896 (6,916,896 over 1 school)
New Jersey 9,294,492 (9,294,492 over 1 school)
Texas 9,727,760 (29,183,280 over 3 schools)
Florida 10,785,264 (21,570,528 over 2 schools)
Ohio 11,808,859 (11,808,859 over 1 school)
Illinois 12,822,744 (12,822,744 over 1 school)
Pennsylvania 13,011,852 (13,011,852 over 1 school)
California 19,788,366 (39,576,732 over 2 schools)

Pittsburgh in PA so PA has 2 P5 public schools.

If we are discussing "fan support" potential, this is assuming that all public universities in the same state are "equal". In Texas, UT is certainly more popular than A&M and Tech (A&M is very popular, Tech lags). In Oklahoma, U of O is clearly the top dog. In other states, it might be more 50-50 (Arizona comes to mind).

Overall, Kansas is the #1 school in their state but in football we know they're pretty bad which makes Kansas State relevant (in men's basketball Wichita State might be more popular than KSU). I would think Iowa owns their state but it could be my Big Ten bias. I'd have to think Mississippi is more popular than Mississippi State but by how much I have no idea. What public university(universities) would have the smallest fan base based on population if you allot them "appropriately"?

Not even close. Kansas State mind share is much, much higher. Outside of the immediate Wichita area, nobody cares about Wichita State much. They barely crack the local news sports segment. Wichita is essentially a city, largely commuter college and not a destination for students or fans from across the state.


The question is not so much numbers (which KSU very well might have over WSU). Schmolik used the term "popular," which can be interpreted in many ways. For example, Wichita hoops has a very impassioned and dedicated fan base — something on which you can't put a price. We see this with other men's college hoops programs that are located in medium-sized cities with no pro sports (or with modest competition from pro sports) and for which there is a "disconnect" between those cities and much of the rest of their respective states. These programs/cities tend to be located in "Middle America" and their fan bases are highly dedicated/protective of their programs/cities. Perhaps the best examples of this in men's college hoops are (though not limited to) Wichita, Creighton, Louisville, Memphis, Marquette, Butler, Cincinnati and Xavier.

It's a dynamic that most folks are not going to fully understand.

Syracuse also fits this dynamic.


I can see that. Good point.
04-29-2021 03:51 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
IHAVETRIED Offline
2nd String
*

Posts: 470
Joined: Oct 2013
Reputation: 36
I Root For: Louisville
Location:
Post: #45
RE: P5 Publics with Smallest State Support
(04-29-2021 02:36 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(04-29-2021 02:11 PM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  
(04-29-2021 02:05 PM)LostInSpace Wrote:  
(04-29-2021 07:17 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 05:04 PM)schmolik Wrote:  Pittsburgh in PA so PA has 2 P5 public schools.

If we are discussing "fan support" potential, this is assuming that all public universities in the same state are "equal". In Texas, UT is certainly more popular than A&M and Tech (A&M is very popular, Tech lags). In Oklahoma, U of O is clearly the top dog. In other states, it might be more 50-50 (Arizona comes to mind).

Overall, Kansas is the #1 school in their state but in football we know they're pretty bad which makes Kansas State relevant (in men's basketball Wichita State might be more popular than KSU). I would think Iowa owns their state but it could be my Big Ten bias. I'd have to think Mississippi is more popular than Mississippi State but by how much I have no idea. What public university(universities) would have the smallest fan base based on population if you allot them "appropriately"?

Pitt is Private. They regard themselves as Private and they do not release data for public consumption.

The subject is not fan support. Per-Capita Taxpayer support is not proxied by Fan Support. And obvious to everyone is the fact that any shortage (or reduction) of taxpayer support to a public university can be compensated in many ways. But 2 P5 public schools operating within a comparatively small state, especially where the state is not growing, places added pressure on fans (and corporations) for donations and ticket sales.

Pitt, Temple and Penn State only disclose limited information because they are largely exempt from state open records law. They are neither fully public or private but are defined as “state-related” in PA code. Basically those schools and Lincoln agree to limited disclosure, plus state representation on their boards in return for an annual appropriation. What Pitt discloses has nothing to do with how they view themselves.
Boy, I don't see why other public universities don't try that cover. Nothing like having your cake and eating it too.

While some state universities may actually want this, the average state populace does not, because they are more familiar with what their state did with their public institutions for years, IMO.
Excellent example of this is when I posted on the ACC board that the Georgia Institute of Technology should become a state related institution for the state of Georgia. Many posters were opposed to the idea, even though I pointed out its benefits for the Georgia Institute of Technology.
Yes, I remember your post. Didn't quite understand at the time. Now I do.
04-29-2021 05:13 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
GreenBaron Offline
Water Engineer
*

Posts: 11
Joined: Jun 2019
Reputation: 11
I Root For: Stony Brook
Location:
Post: #46
RE: P5 Publics with Smallest State Support
You know how New York is the 4th largest state in the country but has zero public P5s...

What a joke of a state.
04-30-2021 11:48 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DawgNBama Offline
the Rush Limbaugh of CSNBBS
*

Posts: 3,974
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation: 124
I Root For: common sense
Location: common sense
Post: #47
RE: P5 Publics with Smallest State Support
(04-30-2021 11:48 AM)GreenBaron Wrote:  You know how New York is the 4th largest state in the country but has zero public P5s...

What a joke of a state.

Not really. It's just that pro sports are really big in the state of New York. Massachusetts doesn't have any public P5s either.
04-30-2021 05:14 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BatonRougeEscapee Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,034
Joined: Nov 2003
Reputation: 81
I Root For: GEAUX TIGERS &
Location:
Post: #48
RE: P5 Publics with Smallest State Support
(04-28-2021 08:35 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  The new census data got me thinking. I wonder just how thinly some major P5 Public universities are spread. It's both a market and a budget issue. One way to look at this is to spread out a state's population over the number of P5 Public universities within the state. Several states are quite "thin" when it's looked at that way:

I think there are 53 P5 Publics.

They are split among 35 of the 50 states.

The states with the Lowest Population per Public P5 are:

Kansas 1,470,432 (2,940,864 over 2 schools)
Mississippi 1,481,958 (2,963,916 over 2 schools)
Iowa 1,596,204 (3,192,408 over 2 schools)
West Virginia 1,795,048 (1,795,048 over 1 school)
Nebraska 1,963,332 (1,963,332 over 1 school)
Oklahoma 1,981,758 (3,963,518 over 2 schools)
Oregon 2,120,751 (4,241,502 over 2 schools)
Kentucky 2,254,671 (4,509,342 over 2 schools)
Alabama 2,515,027 (5,030,054 over 2 schools)
South Carolina 2,562,357 (5,124,714 over 2 schools)


I think the greatest budget pressures would come to public P5s located within low population states.

My short list of teams who are going to need to "pay their own way" or go home is:

Kansas State
Iowa State
Oklahoma State
Oregon State
Louisville

I think low population teams in rich media conferences are protected. That's why teams such as Mississippi State are not on my short list.

Also, low population teams coming from states with only one school are protected to some degree. That's why West Virginia and Nebraska don't make my short list.

I've read this thread and I'm not sure what "pay their own way" implies for these schools. However, if we link Enter Sandman's post pinned on the top of this board I think we can tell which schools may be in trouble and which not:

https://csnbbs.com/thread-897220.html

The bottom P5 teams are ranked in the 60s.
Of the publics you did pretty good. Surprisingly, Texas Tech was right there with KSU and OSU but Louisville was in the top 15 (already paying their own way?).
04-30-2021 05:36 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DFW HOYA Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,400
Joined: May 2004
Reputation: 103
I Root For: The Hoyas
Location: Dallas, TX
Post: #49
RE: P5 Publics with Smallest State Support
(04-28-2021 05:04 PM)schmolik Wrote:  If we are discussing "fan support" potential, this is assuming that all public universities in the same state are "equal". In Texas, UT is certainly more popular than A&M and Tech (A&M is very popular, Tech lags).

Depends on where you sample the data. UT gets the central Texas corridor up to Dallas, but Houston is split and rural Texas is much more likely to fly the maroon flag on Saturday then the burnt orange. Texas Tech doesn't have a base south of I-20--it's the Panhandle, the High Plains, and the Metroplex.

It's much the same in North Carolina. UNC gets the well do do in Chapel Hill, Greensboro and Charlotte, but it's surprising how many Wolfpack fans lie quietly on the edges. Duke is no better than third in that state, and maybe fourth once all the ECU fans are counted.
(This post was last modified: 04-30-2021 05:44 PM by DFW HOYA.)
04-30-2021 05:41 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
GreenBaron Offline
Water Engineer
*

Posts: 11
Joined: Jun 2019
Reputation: 11
I Root For: Stony Brook
Location:
Post: #50
RE: P5 Publics with Smallest State Support
(04-30-2021 05:14 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(04-30-2021 11:48 AM)GreenBaron Wrote:  You know how New York is the 4th largest state in the country but has zero public P5s...

What a joke of a state.

Not really. It's just that pro sports are really big in the state of New York. Massachusetts doesn't have any public P5s either.

Massachusetts is 15th with 1/3rd of NY's population
04-30-2021 06:08 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
NJMark Offline
Water Engineer
*

Posts: 41
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 8
I Root For: Rutgers
Location:
Post: #51
RE: P5 Publics with Smallest State Support
(04-30-2021 11:48 AM)GreenBaron Wrote:  You know how New York is the 4th largest state in the country but has zero public P5s...

What a joke of a state.

P5 is a relatively new concept, less than 10 years. Had NY known something like that might be important many decades ago, they might have designated one of the SUNYs as the flagship rather than have 4 campuses of relatively equal importance.
04-30-2021 06:42 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DawgNBama Offline
the Rush Limbaugh of CSNBBS
*

Posts: 3,974
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation: 124
I Root For: common sense
Location: common sense
Post: #52
RE: P5 Publics with Smallest State Support
(04-30-2021 05:41 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 05:04 PM)schmolik Wrote:  If we are discussing "fan support" potential, this is assuming that all public universities in the same state are "equal". In Texas, UT is certainly more popular than A&M and Tech (A&M is very popular, Tech lags).

Depends on where you sample the data. UT gets the central Texas corridor up to Dallas, but Houston is split and rural Texas is much more likely to fly the maroon flag on Saturday then the burnt orange. Texas Tech doesn't have a base south of I-20--it's the Panhandle, the High Plains, and the Metroplex.

It's much the same in North Carolina. UNC gets the well do do in Chapel Hill, Greensboro and Charlotte, but it's surprising how many Wolfpack fans lie quietly on the edges. Duke is no better than third in that state, and maybe fourth once all the ECU fans are counted.

Duke is either 5th or 6th in NC. ECU is a solid 3, and I think App State is 4.

Project 538 by Vivid Seats did an excellent job on this, IMO, and I appreciate TerryD for putting up that link to it!!

Here is the link again:
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/col...ket-sales/
05-04-2021 06:03 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
whittx Online
1st String
*

Posts: 1,077
Joined: Apr 2016
Reputation: 38
I Root For: FSU, Bport,Corn
Location:
Post: #53
RE: P5 Publics with Smallest State Support
(04-30-2021 06:42 PM)NJMark Wrote:  
(04-30-2021 11:48 AM)GreenBaron Wrote:  You know how New York is the 4th largest state in the country but has zero public P5s...

What a joke of a state.

P5 is a relatively new concept, less than 10 years. Had NY known something like that might be important many decades ago, they might have designated one of the SUNYs as the flagship rather than have 4 campuses of relatively equal importance.

They do have state schools closely affiliated with Syracuse, though (SUNY Upstate and the SUNY College of Environmental Science and Forestry.)
05-04-2021 07:47 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
CrazyPaco Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,465
Joined: Jul 2005
Reputation: 150
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #54
RE: P5 Publics with Smallest State Support
(04-29-2021 03:50 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(04-29-2021 06:47 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 05:57 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 05:04 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 11:59 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  Here is a full listing of all the states with P5 Public schools, in order by Population per P5 School, lowest to highest:

The States listed by Lowest Population per Public P5 University:

Kansas 1,470,432 (2,940,864 divided over 2 Public P5 schools)
Mississippi 1,481,958 (2,963,916 over 2 schools)
Iowa 1,596,204 (3,192,408 over 2 schools)
West Virginia 1,795,048 (1,795,048 over 1 school)
Nebraska 1,963,332 (1,963,332 over 1 school)
Oklahoma 1,981,758 (3,963,518 over 2 schools)
Oregon 2,120,751 (4,241,502 over 2 schools)
Kentucky 2,254,671 (4,509,342 over 2 schools)
Alabama 2,515,027 (5,030,054 over 2 schools)
South Carolina 2,562,357 (5,124,714 over 2 schools)
Arkansas 3,013,758 (3,013,758 over 1 school)
Utah 3,275,252 (3,275,252 over 1 school)
Indiana 3,395,142 (6,796,284 over 2 schools)
Arizona 3,579,462 (7,158,964 over 2 schools)
Washington 3,857,975 (7,715,950 over 2 schools)
Virginia 4,327,274 (8,654,548 over 2 schools)
Louisiana 4,661,468 (4,661,468 over 1 school)
Michigan 5,042,220 (10,084,440 over 2 schools)
North Carolina 5,226,978 (10,453,956 over 2 schools)
Georgia 5,362,637 (10,725,274 over 2 schools)
Minnesota 5,709,752 (5,709,752 over 1 school)
Colorado 5,782,168 (5,782,168 over 1 school)
Wisconsin 5,897,472 (5,897,472 over 1 school)
Missouri 6,160,280 (6,160,280 over 1 school)
Maryland 6,185,280 (6,185,280 over 1 school)
Tennessee 6,916,896 (6,916,896 over 1 school)
New Jersey 9,294,492 (9,294,492 over 1 school)
Texas 9,727,760 (29,183,280 over 3 schools)
Florida 10,785,264 (21,570,528 over 2 schools)
Ohio 11,808,859 (11,808,859 over 1 school)
Illinois 12,822,744 (12,822,744 over 1 school)
Pennsylvania 13,011,852 (13,011,852 over 1 school)
California 19,788,366 (39,576,732 over 2 schools)

Pittsburgh in PA so PA has 2 P5 public schools.

If we are discussing "fan support" potential, this is assuming that all public universities in the same state are "equal". In Texas, UT is certainly more popular than A&M and Tech (A&M is very popular, Tech lags). In Oklahoma, U of O is clearly the top dog. In other states, it might be more 50-50 (Arizona comes to mind).

Overall, Kansas is the #1 school in their state but in football we know they're pretty bad which makes Kansas State relevant (in men's basketball Wichita State might be more popular than KSU). I would think Iowa owns their state but it could be my Big Ten bias. I'd have to think Mississippi is more popular than Mississippi State but by how much I have no idea. What public university(universities) would have the smallest fan base based on population if you allot them "appropriately"?



Isn't the U of Pittsburgh a "hybrid" (part public and part private)?

Pitt considers themselves Private and does not release data as all the Publics do.


That's what I thought. Pitt receives some state funding to provide scholarships for in-state students — thus the "state related" designation. But it seems as much private as it does public. My brother-in-law's nephew is a UPitt student, who sees it as more private. Maybe it's subjective (to an extent)

Pitt and Penn State receive the same type of non-preferred state funding, both general and facility construction. Both are considered "state-related" instrumentality of the Commonwealth and can issue their own bonds..

That said, Penn State, being a land grant, has a longer tradition of being a public-type of university and closer affiliation with the state than Pitt, and PSU is more operationally like a state university with a substantially different board structure with more members appointed by the state or state organizations, and its employees have access to state employee programs unlike Pitt's.

Pitt and Penn State both play the public or private card depending on what is beneficial to them. Neither are obligated to state open records laws but both are subject to certain state reporting requirements.

Bottom line, neither are state owned, controlled, or operated which functionally defines private vs public institutions, although the state's purse strings can wield substantial influence. Both give in-state tuition rates which is how the Carnegie Classifications categorizes their binary choice of public or private universities which is why you see them listed as public in third party publications.

FYI, there is no such thing as a "UPitt" student. It is University of Pittsburgh or Pitt.
(This post was last modified: 05-05-2021 01:35 AM by CrazyPaco.)
05-05-2021 01:26 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
RecoveringHillbilly Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,439
Joined: Jul 2003
Reputation: 24
I Root For: Buffalo, WVU
Location: Niagara Falls, ON
Post: #55
RE: P5 Publics with Smallest State Support
(05-04-2021 07:47 PM)whittx Wrote:  
(04-30-2021 06:42 PM)NJMark Wrote:  
(04-30-2021 11:48 AM)GreenBaron Wrote:  You know how New York is the 4th largest state in the country but has zero public P5s...

What a joke of a state.

P5 is a relatively new concept, less than 10 years. Had NY known something like that might be important many decades ago, they might have designated one of the SUNYs as the flagship rather than have 4 campuses of relatively equal importance.

They do have state schools closely affiliated with Syracuse, though (SUNY Upstate and the SUNY College of Environmental Science and Forestry.)

And I recall when Spitzer came to Buffalo in 2008 and declared he wanted to build Buffalo and Stony Brook into official flagships for the system. The crash and his downfall slowed that effort.

But in many ways they are the de facto flagships, the largest, AAU's, they work together in state policy and each only compare one school institutionally to the other. Stony Brook raised a then SUNY record $630 Million, so Buffalo comes out to raise $711 Million of a $1 Bil goal.

What ultimately hurt was the SUNY athletic scholarship ban from 1977 to 1986. Buffalo was held back competitively just as the Big East, Eastern 8/A-10 were forming.
(This post was last modified: 05-05-2021 03:18 PM by RecoveringHillbilly.)
05-05-2021 02:09 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2021 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2021 MyBB Group.