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P5 Publics with Smallest State Support
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McKinney Offline
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Post: #21
RE: P5 Publics with Smallest State Support
Aren't most (all?) P5s financially independent or could be if pressured. Rutgers and Maryland might be the exceptions to that right now, but their B1G money is rolling in.

If required I think every P5 could balance their books without any state or school support.
04-28-2021 03:31 PM
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schmolik Offline
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Post: #22
RE: P5 Publics with Smallest State Support
(04-28-2021 11:59 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  Here is a full listing of all the states with P5 Public schools, in order by Population per P5 School, lowest to highest:

The States listed by Lowest Population per Public P5 University:

Kansas 1,470,432 (2,940,864 divided over 2 Public P5 schools)
Mississippi 1,481,958 (2,963,916 over 2 schools)
Iowa 1,596,204 (3,192,408 over 2 schools)
West Virginia 1,795,048 (1,795,048 over 1 school)
Nebraska 1,963,332 (1,963,332 over 1 school)
Oklahoma 1,981,758 (3,963,518 over 2 schools)
Oregon 2,120,751 (4,241,502 over 2 schools)
Kentucky 2,254,671 (4,509,342 over 2 schools)
Alabama 2,515,027 (5,030,054 over 2 schools)
South Carolina 2,562,357 (5,124,714 over 2 schools)
Arkansas 3,013,758 (3,013,758 over 1 school)
Utah 3,275,252 (3,275,252 over 1 school)
Indiana 3,395,142 (6,796,284 over 2 schools)
Arizona 3,579,462 (7,158,964 over 2 schools)
Washington 3,857,975 (7,715,950 over 2 schools)
Virginia 4,327,274 (8,654,548 over 2 schools)
Louisiana 4,661,468 (4,661,468 over 1 school)
Michigan 5,042,220 (10,084,440 over 2 schools)
North Carolina 5,226,978 (10,453,956 over 2 schools)
Georgia 5,362,637 (10,725,274 over 2 schools)
Minnesota 5,709,752 (5,709,752 over 1 school)
Colorado 5,782,168 (5,782,168 over 1 school)
Wisconsin 5,897,472 (5,897,472 over 1 school)
Missouri 6,160,280 (6,160,280 over 1 school)
Maryland 6,185,280 (6,185,280 over 1 school)
Tennessee 6,916,896 (6,916,896 over 1 school)
New Jersey 9,294,492 (9,294,492 over 1 school)
Texas 9,727,760 (29,183,280 over 3 schools)
Florida 10,785,264 (21,570,528 over 2 schools)
Ohio 11,808,859 (11,808,859 over 1 school)
Illinois 12,822,744 (12,822,744 over 1 school)
Pennsylvania 13,011,852 (13,011,852 over 1 school)
California 19,788,366 (39,576,732 over 2 schools)

Pittsburgh in PA so PA has 2 P5 public schools.

If we are discussing "fan support" potential, this is assuming that all public universities in the same state are "equal". In Texas, UT is certainly more popular than A&M and Tech (A&M is very popular, Tech lags). In Oklahoma, U of O is clearly the top dog. In other states, it might be more 50-50 (Arizona comes to mind).

Overall, Kansas is the #1 school in their state but in football we know they're pretty bad which makes Kansas State relevant (in men's basketball Wichita State might be more popular than KSU). I would think Iowa owns their state but it could be my Big Ten bias. I'd have to think Mississippi is more popular than Mississippi State but by how much I have no idea. What public university(universities) would have the smallest fan base based on population if you allot them "appropriately"?
04-28-2021 05:04 PM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #23
RE: P5 Publics with Smallest State Support
(04-28-2021 09:27 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 09:14 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 08:35 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  The new census data got me thinking. I wonder just how thinly some major P5 Public universities are spread. It's both a market and a budget issue. One way to look at this is to spread out a state's population over the number of P5 Public universities within the state. Several states are quite "thin" when it's looked at that way:

Given that states like Mississippi, Alabama, Iowa, Nebraska, South Carolina, Oklahoma and West Virginia, all of which strongly support their P5 football teams, are on this list, I am not sure how relevant a measure this is.

In fact, it might be that small population means the P5 football is the "only game in town", leading to more interest than in some bigger states where there is more to do.

Oh, I think there's plenty of merit to your argument. I mean you can start looking at all sorts of metrics. My point is that added financial pressure is placed on low population state taxpayers who fund public universities.

No way are states like Nebraska EVER going to lose their only teams.

Public universities do not get government support for their athletic teams. In some states (like Ohio), that's actually against the law.

It's more about the size of the fanbase that can support the team. The fewer pro sports, the more P5's. (which causes which? It's like the chicken and the egg):


List of states between 10-12 million people by number of Big-5 pro sports teams
8 - Ohio - 1 P5
6 - Illinois - 2 P5
4 - Georgia - 2 P5
4 - Michigan - 2 P5
3 - North Carolina - 4 P5


List of states between 5-6 million people by number of Big-5 pro sports teams:
5 - Colorado - 1 P5
5 - Minnesota - 1 P5
3 - Wisconsin - 1 P5
0 - Alabama - 2 P5
0 - South Carolina - 2 P5


list of states between 3-3.5 million people by number of Big-5 pro sports teams:
2 - Nevada - 0 P5
2 - Utah - 1 P5
0 - Arkansas - 1 P5
0 - Iowa - 2 P5
04-28-2021 05:45 PM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #24
RE: P5 Publics with Smallest State Support
(04-28-2021 05:04 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 11:59 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  Here is a full listing of all the states with P5 Public schools, in order by Population per P5 School, lowest to highest:

The States listed by Lowest Population per Public P5 University:

Kansas 1,470,432 (2,940,864 divided over 2 Public P5 schools)
Mississippi 1,481,958 (2,963,916 over 2 schools)
Iowa 1,596,204 (3,192,408 over 2 schools)
West Virginia 1,795,048 (1,795,048 over 1 school)
Nebraska 1,963,332 (1,963,332 over 1 school)
Oklahoma 1,981,758 (3,963,518 over 2 schools)
Oregon 2,120,751 (4,241,502 over 2 schools)
Kentucky 2,254,671 (4,509,342 over 2 schools)
Alabama 2,515,027 (5,030,054 over 2 schools)
South Carolina 2,562,357 (5,124,714 over 2 schools)
Arkansas 3,013,758 (3,013,758 over 1 school)
Utah 3,275,252 (3,275,252 over 1 school)
Indiana 3,395,142 (6,796,284 over 2 schools)
Arizona 3,579,462 (7,158,964 over 2 schools)
Washington 3,857,975 (7,715,950 over 2 schools)
Virginia 4,327,274 (8,654,548 over 2 schools)
Louisiana 4,661,468 (4,661,468 over 1 school)
Michigan 5,042,220 (10,084,440 over 2 schools)
North Carolina 5,226,978 (10,453,956 over 2 schools)
Georgia 5,362,637 (10,725,274 over 2 schools)
Minnesota 5,709,752 (5,709,752 over 1 school)
Colorado 5,782,168 (5,782,168 over 1 school)
Wisconsin 5,897,472 (5,897,472 over 1 school)
Missouri 6,160,280 (6,160,280 over 1 school)
Maryland 6,185,280 (6,185,280 over 1 school)
Tennessee 6,916,896 (6,916,896 over 1 school)
New Jersey 9,294,492 (9,294,492 over 1 school)
Texas 9,727,760 (29,183,280 over 3 schools)
Florida 10,785,264 (21,570,528 over 2 schools)
Ohio 11,808,859 (11,808,859 over 1 school)
Illinois 12,822,744 (12,822,744 over 1 school)
Pennsylvania 13,011,852 (13,011,852 over 1 school)
California 19,788,366 (39,576,732 over 2 schools)

Pittsburgh in PA so PA has 2 P5 public schools.

If we are discussing "fan support" potential, this is assuming that all public universities in the same state are "equal". In Texas, UT is certainly more popular than A&M and Tech (A&M is very popular, Tech lags). In Oklahoma, U of O is clearly the top dog. In other states, it might be more 50-50 (Arizona comes to mind).

Overall, Kansas is the #1 school in their state but in football we know they're pretty bad which makes Kansas State relevant (in men's basketball Wichita State might be more popular than KSU). I would think Iowa owns their state but it could be my Big Ten bias. I'd have to think Mississippi is more popular than Mississippi State but by how much I have no idea. What public university(universities) would have the smallest fan base based on population if you allot them "appropriately"?



Isn't the U of Pittsburgh a "hybrid" (part public and part private)?
04-28-2021 05:57 PM
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Todor Offline
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Post: #25
RE: P5 Publics with Smallest State Support
(04-28-2021 05:04 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 11:59 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  Here is a full listing of all the states with P5 Public schools, in order by Population per P5 School, lowest to highest:

The States listed by Lowest Population per Public P5 University:

Kansas 1,470,432 (2,940,864 divided over 2 Public P5 schools)
Mississippi 1,481,958 (2,963,916 over 2 schools)
Iowa 1,596,204 (3,192,408 over 2 schools)
West Virginia 1,795,048 (1,795,048 over 1 school)
Nebraska 1,963,332 (1,963,332 over 1 school)
Oklahoma 1,981,758 (3,963,518 over 2 schools)
Oregon 2,120,751 (4,241,502 over 2 schools)
Kentucky 2,254,671 (4,509,342 over 2 schools)
Alabama 2,515,027 (5,030,054 over 2 schools)
South Carolina 2,562,357 (5,124,714 over 2 schools)
Arkansas 3,013,758 (3,013,758 over 1 school)
Utah 3,275,252 (3,275,252 over 1 school)
Indiana 3,395,142 (6,796,284 over 2 schools)
Arizona 3,579,462 (7,158,964 over 2 schools)
Washington 3,857,975 (7,715,950 over 2 schools)
Virginia 4,327,274 (8,654,548 over 2 schools)
Louisiana 4,661,468 (4,661,468 over 1 school)
Michigan 5,042,220 (10,084,440 over 2 schools)
North Carolina 5,226,978 (10,453,956 over 2 schools)
Georgia 5,362,637 (10,725,274 over 2 schools)
Minnesota 5,709,752 (5,709,752 over 1 school)
Colorado 5,782,168 (5,782,168 over 1 school)
Wisconsin 5,897,472 (5,897,472 over 1 school)
Missouri 6,160,280 (6,160,280 over 1 school)
Maryland 6,185,280 (6,185,280 over 1 school)
Tennessee 6,916,896 (6,916,896 over 1 school)
New Jersey 9,294,492 (9,294,492 over 1 school)
Texas 9,727,760 (29,183,280 over 3 schools)
Florida 10,785,264 (21,570,528 over 2 schools)
Ohio 11,808,859 (11,808,859 over 1 school)
Illinois 12,822,744 (12,822,744 over 1 school)
Pennsylvania 13,011,852 (13,011,852 over 1 school)
California 19,788,366 (39,576,732 over 2 schools)

Pittsburgh in PA so PA has 2 P5 public schools.

If we are discussing "fan support" potential, this is assuming that all public universities in the same state are "equal". In Texas, UT is certainly more popular than A&M and Tech (A&M is very popular, Tech lags). In Oklahoma, U of O is clearly the top dog. In other states, it might be more 50-50 (Arizona comes to mind).

Overall, Kansas is the #1 school in their state but in football we know they're pretty bad which makes Kansas State relevant (in men's basketball Wichita State might be more popular than KSU). I would think Iowa owns their state but it could be my Big Ten bias. I'd have to think Mississippi is more popular than Mississippi State but by how much I have no idea. What public university(universities) would have the smallest fan base based on population if you allot them "appropriately"?

Not even close. Kansas State mind share is much, much higher. Outside of the immediate Wichita area, nobody cares about Wichita State much. They barely crack the local news sports segment. Wichita is essentially a city, largely commuter college and not a destination for students or fans from across the state.
(This post was last modified: 04-28-2021 06:17 PM by Todor.)
04-28-2021 06:16 PM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #26
RE: P5 Publics with Smallest State Support
(04-28-2021 06:16 PM)Todor Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 05:04 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 11:59 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  Here is a full listing of all the states with P5 Public schools, in order by Population per P5 School, lowest to highest:

The States listed by Lowest Population per Public P5 University:

Kansas 1,470,432 (2,940,864 divided over 2 Public P5 schools)
Mississippi 1,481,958 (2,963,916 over 2 schools)
Iowa 1,596,204 (3,192,408 over 2 schools)
West Virginia 1,795,048 (1,795,048 over 1 school)
Nebraska 1,963,332 (1,963,332 over 1 school)
Oklahoma 1,981,758 (3,963,518 over 2 schools)
Oregon 2,120,751 (4,241,502 over 2 schools)
Kentucky 2,254,671 (4,509,342 over 2 schools)
Alabama 2,515,027 (5,030,054 over 2 schools)
South Carolina 2,562,357 (5,124,714 over 2 schools)
Arkansas 3,013,758 (3,013,758 over 1 school)
Utah 3,275,252 (3,275,252 over 1 school)
Indiana 3,395,142 (6,796,284 over 2 schools)
Arizona 3,579,462 (7,158,964 over 2 schools)
Washington 3,857,975 (7,715,950 over 2 schools)
Virginia 4,327,274 (8,654,548 over 2 schools)
Louisiana 4,661,468 (4,661,468 over 1 school)
Michigan 5,042,220 (10,084,440 over 2 schools)
North Carolina 5,226,978 (10,453,956 over 2 schools)
Georgia 5,362,637 (10,725,274 over 2 schools)
Minnesota 5,709,752 (5,709,752 over 1 school)
Colorado 5,782,168 (5,782,168 over 1 school)
Wisconsin 5,897,472 (5,897,472 over 1 school)
Missouri 6,160,280 (6,160,280 over 1 school)
Maryland 6,185,280 (6,185,280 over 1 school)
Tennessee 6,916,896 (6,916,896 over 1 school)
New Jersey 9,294,492 (9,294,492 over 1 school)
Texas 9,727,760 (29,183,280 over 3 schools)
Florida 10,785,264 (21,570,528 over 2 schools)
Ohio 11,808,859 (11,808,859 over 1 school)
Illinois 12,822,744 (12,822,744 over 1 school)
Pennsylvania 13,011,852 (13,011,852 over 1 school)
California 19,788,366 (39,576,732 over 2 schools)

Pittsburgh in PA so PA has 2 P5 public schools.

If we are discussing "fan support" potential, this is assuming that all public universities in the same state are "equal". In Texas, UT is certainly more popular than A&M and Tech (A&M is very popular, Tech lags). In Oklahoma, U of O is clearly the top dog. In other states, it might be more 50-50 (Arizona comes to mind).

Overall, Kansas is the #1 school in their state but in football we know they're pretty bad which makes Kansas State relevant (in men's basketball Wichita State might be more popular than KSU). I would think Iowa owns their state but it could be my Big Ten bias. I'd have to think Mississippi is more popular than Mississippi State but by how much I have no idea. What public university(universities) would have the smallest fan base based on population if you allot them "appropriately"?

Not even close. Kansas State mind share is much, much higher. Outside of the immediate Wichita area, nobody cares about Wichita State much. They barely crack the local news sports segment. Wichita is essentially a city, largely commuter college and not a destination for students or fans from across the state.


The question is not so much numbers (which KSU very well might have over WSU). Schmolik used the term "popular," which can be interpreted in many ways. For example, Wichita hoops has a very impassioned and dedicated fan base — something on which you can't put a price. We see this with other men's college hoops programs that are located in medium-sized cities with no pro sports (or with modest competition from pro sports) and for which there is a "disconnect" between those cities and much of the rest of their respective states. These programs/cities tend to be located in "Middle America" and their fan bases are highly dedicated/protective of their programs/cities. Perhaps the best examples of this in men's college hoops are (though not limited to) Wichita, Creighton, Louisville, Memphis, Marquette, Butler, Cincinnati and Xavier.

It's a dynamic that most folks are not going to fully understand.
04-28-2021 09:49 PM
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Todor Offline
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Post: #27
RE: P5 Publics with Smallest State Support
I'm wondering what the numbers are per FBS program in each state. I can't find it compiled anywhere.
04-28-2021 10:16 PM
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DFW HOYA Offline
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Post: #28
RE: P5 Publics with Smallest State Support
(04-28-2021 11:13 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  We have 1-2 of those in Ohio. Also, I think the small private schools with no religious backing and a small endowment are toast as well.

Schools with religious backing are on their collective own, too. I don't see any churches looking to bail out colleges.
04-28-2021 10:52 PM
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IHAVETRIED Offline
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Post: #29
RE: P5 Publics with Smallest State Support
(04-28-2021 05:57 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 05:04 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 11:59 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  Here is a full listing of all the states with P5 Public schools, in order by Population per P5 School, lowest to highest:

The States listed by Lowest Population per Public P5 University:

Kansas 1,470,432 (2,940,864 divided over 2 Public P5 schools)
Mississippi 1,481,958 (2,963,916 over 2 schools)
Iowa 1,596,204 (3,192,408 over 2 schools)
West Virginia 1,795,048 (1,795,048 over 1 school)
Nebraska 1,963,332 (1,963,332 over 1 school)
Oklahoma 1,981,758 (3,963,518 over 2 schools)
Oregon 2,120,751 (4,241,502 over 2 schools)
Kentucky 2,254,671 (4,509,342 over 2 schools)
Alabama 2,515,027 (5,030,054 over 2 schools)
South Carolina 2,562,357 (5,124,714 over 2 schools)
Arkansas 3,013,758 (3,013,758 over 1 school)
Utah 3,275,252 (3,275,252 over 1 school)
Indiana 3,395,142 (6,796,284 over 2 schools)
Arizona 3,579,462 (7,158,964 over 2 schools)
Washington 3,857,975 (7,715,950 over 2 schools)
Virginia 4,327,274 (8,654,548 over 2 schools)
Louisiana 4,661,468 (4,661,468 over 1 school)
Michigan 5,042,220 (10,084,440 over 2 schools)
North Carolina 5,226,978 (10,453,956 over 2 schools)
Georgia 5,362,637 (10,725,274 over 2 schools)
Minnesota 5,709,752 (5,709,752 over 1 school)
Colorado 5,782,168 (5,782,168 over 1 school)
Wisconsin 5,897,472 (5,897,472 over 1 school)
Missouri 6,160,280 (6,160,280 over 1 school)
Maryland 6,185,280 (6,185,280 over 1 school)
Tennessee 6,916,896 (6,916,896 over 1 school)
New Jersey 9,294,492 (9,294,492 over 1 school)
Texas 9,727,760 (29,183,280 over 3 schools)
Florida 10,785,264 (21,570,528 over 2 schools)
Ohio 11,808,859 (11,808,859 over 1 school)
Illinois 12,822,744 (12,822,744 over 1 school)
Pennsylvania 13,011,852 (13,011,852 over 1 school)
California 19,788,366 (39,576,732 over 2 schools)

Pittsburgh in PA so PA has 2 P5 public schools.

If we are discussing "fan support" potential, this is assuming that all public universities in the same state are "equal". In Texas, UT is certainly more popular than A&M and Tech (A&M is very popular, Tech lags). In Oklahoma, U of O is clearly the top dog. In other states, it might be more 50-50 (Arizona comes to mind).

Overall, Kansas is the #1 school in their state but in football we know they're pretty bad which makes Kansas State relevant (in men's basketball Wichita State might be more popular than KSU). I would think Iowa owns their state but it could be my Big Ten bias. I'd have to think Mississippi is more popular than Mississippi State but by how much I have no idea. What public university(universities) would have the smallest fan base based on population if you allot them "appropriately"?



Isn't the U of Pittsburgh a "hybrid" (part public and part private)?

Pitt considers themselves Private and does not release data as all the Publics do.
04-29-2021 06:47 AM
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IHAVETRIED Offline
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Post: #30
RE: P5 Publics with Smallest State Support
(04-28-2021 05:45 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 09:27 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 09:14 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 08:35 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  The new census data got me thinking. I wonder just how thinly some major P5 Public universities are spread. It's both a market and a budget issue. One way to look at this is to spread out a state's population over the number of P5 Public universities within the state. Several states are quite "thin" when it's looked at that way:

Given that states like Mississippi, Alabama, Iowa, Nebraska, South Carolina, Oklahoma and West Virginia, all of which strongly support their P5 football teams, are on this list, I am not sure how relevant a measure this is.

In fact, it might be that small population means the P5 football is the "only game in town", leading to more interest than in some bigger states where there is more to do.

Oh, I think there's plenty of merit to your argument. I mean you can start looking at all sorts of metrics. My point is that added financial pressure is placed on low population state taxpayers who fund public universities.

No way are states like Nebraska EVER going to lose their only teams.

Public universities do not get government support for their athletic teams. In some states (like Ohio), that's actually against the law.

It's more about the size of the fanbase that can support the team. The fewer pro sports, the more P5's. (which causes which? It's like the chicken and the egg):


List of states between 10-12 million people by number of Big-5 pro sports teams
8 - Ohio - 1 P5
6 - Illinois - 2 P5
4 - Georgia - 2 P5
4 - Michigan - 2 P5
3 - North Carolina - 4 P5


List of states between 5-6 million people by number of Big-5 pro sports teams:
5 - Colorado - 1 P5
5 - Minnesota - 1 P5
3 - Wisconsin - 1 P5
0 - Alabama - 2 P5
0 - South Carolina - 2 P5


list of states between 3-3.5 million people by number of Big-5 pro sports teams:
2 - Nevada - 0 P5
2 - Utah - 1 P5
0 - Arkansas - 1 P5
0 - Iowa - 2 P5

I never said they did. But those states who have small populations have an increasing burdensome time operating more than one public university. If a state happens to be small, and shrinking, or declining slightly relative to the rest of the country, eventually the financial pressure piles up. Athletics programs within Public universities are not shielded from broad-based financial pressure.

And the subject is not "fans". That's a whole 'nuther subject. Just like media income and donations.
(This post was last modified: 04-29-2021 07:06 AM by IHAVETRIED.)
04-29-2021 07:05 AM
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Post: #31
RE: P5 Publics with Smallest State Support
(04-28-2021 09:49 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 06:16 PM)Todor Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 05:04 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 11:59 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  Here is a full listing of all the states with P5 Public schools, in order by Population per P5 School, lowest to highest:

The States listed by Lowest Population per Public P5 University:

Kansas 1,470,432 (2,940,864 divided over 2 Public P5 schools)
Mississippi 1,481,958 (2,963,916 over 2 schools)
Iowa 1,596,204 (3,192,408 over 2 schools)
West Virginia 1,795,048 (1,795,048 over 1 school)
Nebraska 1,963,332 (1,963,332 over 1 school)
Oklahoma 1,981,758 (3,963,518 over 2 schools)
Oregon 2,120,751 (4,241,502 over 2 schools)
Kentucky 2,254,671 (4,509,342 over 2 schools)
Alabama 2,515,027 (5,030,054 over 2 schools)
South Carolina 2,562,357 (5,124,714 over 2 schools)
Arkansas 3,013,758 (3,013,758 over 1 school)
Utah 3,275,252 (3,275,252 over 1 school)
Indiana 3,395,142 (6,796,284 over 2 schools)
Arizona 3,579,462 (7,158,964 over 2 schools)
Washington 3,857,975 (7,715,950 over 2 schools)
Virginia 4,327,274 (8,654,548 over 2 schools)
Louisiana 4,661,468 (4,661,468 over 1 school)
Michigan 5,042,220 (10,084,440 over 2 schools)
North Carolina 5,226,978 (10,453,956 over 2 schools)
Georgia 5,362,637 (10,725,274 over 2 schools)
Minnesota 5,709,752 (5,709,752 over 1 school)
Colorado 5,782,168 (5,782,168 over 1 school)
Wisconsin 5,897,472 (5,897,472 over 1 school)
Missouri 6,160,280 (6,160,280 over 1 school)
Maryland 6,185,280 (6,185,280 over 1 school)
Tennessee 6,916,896 (6,916,896 over 1 school)
New Jersey 9,294,492 (9,294,492 over 1 school)
Texas 9,727,760 (29,183,280 over 3 schools)
Florida 10,785,264 (21,570,528 over 2 schools)
Ohio 11,808,859 (11,808,859 over 1 school)
Illinois 12,822,744 (12,822,744 over 1 school)
Pennsylvania 13,011,852 (13,011,852 over 1 school)
California 19,788,366 (39,576,732 over 2 schools)

Pittsburgh in PA so PA has 2 P5 public schools.

If we are discussing "fan support" potential, this is assuming that all public universities in the same state are "equal". In Texas, UT is certainly more popular than A&M and Tech (A&M is very popular, Tech lags). In Oklahoma, U of O is clearly the top dog. In other states, it might be more 50-50 (Arizona comes to mind).

Overall, Kansas is the #1 school in their state but in football we know they're pretty bad which makes Kansas State relevant (in men's basketball Wichita State might be more popular than KSU). I would think Iowa owns their state but it could be my Big Ten bias. I'd have to think Mississippi is more popular than Mississippi State but by how much I have no idea. What public university(universities) would have the smallest fan base based on population if you allot them "appropriately"?

Not even close. Kansas State mind share is much, much higher. Outside of the immediate Wichita area, nobody cares about Wichita State much. They barely crack the local news sports segment. Wichita is essentially a city, largely commuter college and not a destination for students or fans from across the state.


The question is not so much numbers (which KSU very well might have over WSU). Schmolik used the term "popular," which can be interpreted in many ways. For example, Wichita hoops has a very impassioned and dedicated fan base — something on which you can't put a price. We see this with other men's college hoops programs that are located in medium-sized cities with no pro sports (or with modest competition from pro sports) and for which there is a "disconnect" between those cities and much of the rest of their respective states. These programs/cities tend to be located in "Middle America" and their fan bases are highly dedicated/protective of their programs/cities. Perhaps the best examples of this in men's college hoops are (though not limited to) Wichita, Creighton, Louisville, Memphis, Marquette, Butler, Cincinnati and Xavier.

It's a dynamic that most folks are not going to fully understand.

Syracuse also fits this dynamic.
04-29-2021 07:15 AM
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IHAVETRIED Offline
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Post: #32
RE: P5 Publics with Smallest State Support
(04-28-2021 05:04 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 11:59 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  Here is a full listing of all the states with P5 Public schools, in order by Population per P5 School, lowest to highest:

The States listed by Lowest Population per Public P5 University:

Kansas 1,470,432 (2,940,864 divided over 2 Public P5 schools)
Mississippi 1,481,958 (2,963,916 over 2 schools)
Iowa 1,596,204 (3,192,408 over 2 schools)
West Virginia 1,795,048 (1,795,048 over 1 school)
Nebraska 1,963,332 (1,963,332 over 1 school)
Oklahoma 1,981,758 (3,963,518 over 2 schools)
Oregon 2,120,751 (4,241,502 over 2 schools)
Kentucky 2,254,671 (4,509,342 over 2 schools)
Alabama 2,515,027 (5,030,054 over 2 schools)
South Carolina 2,562,357 (5,124,714 over 2 schools)
Arkansas 3,013,758 (3,013,758 over 1 school)
Utah 3,275,252 (3,275,252 over 1 school)
Indiana 3,395,142 (6,796,284 over 2 schools)
Arizona 3,579,462 (7,158,964 over 2 schools)
Washington 3,857,975 (7,715,950 over 2 schools)
Virginia 4,327,274 (8,654,548 over 2 schools)
Louisiana 4,661,468 (4,661,468 over 1 school)
Michigan 5,042,220 (10,084,440 over 2 schools)
North Carolina 5,226,978 (10,453,956 over 2 schools)
Georgia 5,362,637 (10,725,274 over 2 schools)
Minnesota 5,709,752 (5,709,752 over 1 school)
Colorado 5,782,168 (5,782,168 over 1 school)
Wisconsin 5,897,472 (5,897,472 over 1 school)
Missouri 6,160,280 (6,160,280 over 1 school)
Maryland 6,185,280 (6,185,280 over 1 school)
Tennessee 6,916,896 (6,916,896 over 1 school)
New Jersey 9,294,492 (9,294,492 over 1 school)
Texas 9,727,760 (29,183,280 over 3 schools)
Florida 10,785,264 (21,570,528 over 2 schools)
Ohio 11,808,859 (11,808,859 over 1 school)
Illinois 12,822,744 (12,822,744 over 1 school)
Pennsylvania 13,011,852 (13,011,852 over 1 school)
California 19,788,366 (39,576,732 over 2 schools)

Pittsburgh in PA so PA has 2 P5 public schools.

If we are discussing "fan support" potential, this is assuming that all public universities in the same state are "equal". In Texas, UT is certainly more popular than A&M and Tech (A&M is very popular, Tech lags). In Oklahoma, U of O is clearly the top dog. In other states, it might be more 50-50 (Arizona comes to mind).

Overall, Kansas is the #1 school in their state but in football we know they're pretty bad which makes Kansas State relevant (in men's basketball Wichita State might be more popular than KSU). I would think Iowa owns their state but it could be my Big Ten bias. I'd have to think Mississippi is more popular than Mississippi State but by how much I have no idea. What public university(universities) would have the smallest fan base based on population if you allot them "appropriately"?

Pitt is Private. They regard themselves as Private and they do not release data for public consumption.

The subject is not fan support. Per-Capita Taxpayer support is not proxied by Fan Support. And obvious to everyone is the fact that any shortage (or reduction) of taxpayer support to a public university can be compensated in many ways. But 2 P5 public schools operating within a comparatively small state, especially where the state is not growing, places added pressure on fans (and corporations) for donations and ticket sales.
04-29-2021 07:17 AM
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orangefan Offline
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Post: #33
RE: P5 Publics with Smallest State Support
(04-28-2021 08:35 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  The new census data got me thinking. I wonder just how thinly some major P5 Public universities are spread. It's both a market and a budget issue. One way to look at this is to spread out a state's population over the number of P5 Public universities within the state. Several states are quite "thin" when it's looked at that way:

I think there are 53 P5 Publics.

They are split among 35 of the 50 states.

The states with the Lowest Population per Public P5 are:

Kansas 1,470,432 (2,940,864 over 2 schools)
Mississippi 1,481,958 (2,963,916 over 2 schools)
Iowa 1,596,204 (3,192,408 over 2 schools)
West Virginia 1,795,048 (1,795,048 over 1 school)
Nebraska 1,963,332 (1,963,332 over 1 school)
Oklahoma 1,981,758 (3,963,518 over 2 schools)
Oregon 2,120,751 (4,241,502 over 2 schools)
Kentucky 2,254,671 (4,509,342 over 2 schools)
Alabama 2,515,027 (5,030,054 over 2 schools)
South Carolina 2,562,357 (5,124,714 over 2 schools)


I think the greatest budget pressures would come to public P5s located within low population states.

My short list of teams who are going to need to "pay their own way" or go home is:

Kansas State
Iowa State
Oklahoma State
Oregon State
Louisville

I think low population teams in rich media conferences are protected. That's why teams such as Mississippi State are not on my short list.

Also, low population teams coming from states with only one school are protected to some degree. That's why West Virginia and Nebraska don't make my short list.

The ability of the schools in these states to generate revenue, though, depends on the presence of pro teams in their markets. Of these states, only Oklahoma and Oregon have any pro teams, both of which are in the NBA. This provides the schools in these states with a better opportunity to dominate fan interest. Obviously, many of these states have pro teams nearby (KC near Kansas, New Orleans near Mississippi, Cincinnati near Kentucky, and Charlotte near SC). However, because they are not physically located in the same cities or metro areas as the colleges, the colleges have strong markets into which to sell tickets, including high value luxury seating. Kansas may be an exception with respect to the KC Chiefs, but KC has no NHL or NBA team, which allows KU and KSU's basketball teams to flourish.
04-29-2021 12:37 PM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #34
RE: P5 Publics with Smallest State Support
(04-29-2021 07:05 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 05:45 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 09:27 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 09:14 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 08:35 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  The new census data got me thinking. I wonder just how thinly some major P5 Public universities are spread. It's both a market and a budget issue. One way to look at this is to spread out a state's population over the number of P5 Public universities within the state. Several states are quite "thin" when it's looked at that way:

Given that states like Mississippi, Alabama, Iowa, Nebraska, South Carolina, Oklahoma and West Virginia, all of which strongly support their P5 football teams, are on this list, I am not sure how relevant a measure this is.

In fact, it might be that small population means the P5 football is the "only game in town", leading to more interest than in some bigger states where there is more to do.

Oh, I think there's plenty of merit to your argument. I mean you can start looking at all sorts of metrics. My point is that added financial pressure is placed on low population state taxpayers who fund public universities.

No way are states like Nebraska EVER going to lose their only teams.

Public universities do not get government support for their athletic teams. In some states (like Ohio), that's actually against the law.

It's more about the size of the fanbase that can support the team. The fewer pro sports, the more P5's. (which causes which? It's like the chicken and the egg):


List of states between 10-12 million people by number of Big-5 pro sports teams
8 - Ohio - 1 P5
6 - Illinois - 2 P5
4 - Georgia - 2 P5
4 - Michigan - 2 P5
3 - North Carolina - 4 P5


List of states between 5-6 million people by number of Big-5 pro sports teams:
5 - Colorado - 1 P5
5 - Minnesota - 1 P5
3 - Wisconsin - 1 P5
0 - Alabama - 2 P5
0 - South Carolina - 2 P5


list of states between 3-3.5 million people by number of Big-5 pro sports teams:
2 - Nevada - 0 P5
2 - Utah - 1 P5
0 - Arkansas - 1 P5
0 - Iowa - 2 P5

I never said they did. But those states who have small populations have an increasing burdensome time operating more than one public university. If a state happens to be small, and shrinking, or declining slightly relative to the rest of the country, eventually the financial pressure piles up. Athletics programs within Public universities are not shielded from broad-based financial pressure.

And the subject is not "fans". That's a whole 'nuther subject. Just like media income and donations.

So if it's not government support for academics, and not fans, what is it?

Are you saying that it's government support for academics?

Or is it something else? What is the mechanism you're trying to discuss?
04-29-2021 12:53 PM
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IHAVETRIED Offline
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Post: #35
RE: P5 Publics with Smallest State Support
(04-29-2021 12:53 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(04-29-2021 07:05 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 05:45 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 09:27 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 09:14 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Given that states like Mississippi, Alabama, Iowa, Nebraska, South Carolina, Oklahoma and West Virginia, all of which strongly support their P5 football teams, are on this list, I am not sure how relevant a measure this is.

In fact, it might be that small population means the P5 football is the "only game in town", leading to more interest than in some bigger states where there is more to do.

Oh, I think there's plenty of merit to your argument. I mean you can start looking at all sorts of metrics. My point is that added financial pressure is placed on low population state taxpayers who fund public universities.

No way are states like Nebraska EVER going to lose their only teams.

Public universities do not get government support for their athletic teams. In some states (like Ohio), that's actually against the law.

It's more about the size of the fanbase that can support the team. The fewer pro sports, the more P5's. (which causes which? It's like the chicken and the egg):


List of states between 10-12 million people by number of Big-5 pro sports teams
8 - Ohio - 1 P5
6 - Illinois - 2 P5
4 - Georgia - 2 P5
4 - Michigan - 2 P5
3 - North Carolina - 4 P5


List of states between 5-6 million people by number of Big-5 pro sports teams:
5 - Colorado - 1 P5
5 - Minnesota - 1 P5
3 - Wisconsin - 1 P5
0 - Alabama - 2 P5
0 - South Carolina - 2 P5


list of states between 3-3.5 million people by number of Big-5 pro sports teams:
2 - Nevada - 0 P5
2 - Utah - 1 P5
0 - Arkansas - 1 P5
0 - Iowa - 2 P5

I never said they did. But those states who have small populations have an increasing burdensome time operating more than one public university. If a state happens to be small, and shrinking, or declining slightly relative to the rest of the country, eventually the financial pressure piles up. Athletics programs within Public universities are not shielded from broad-based financial pressure.

And the subject is not "fans". That's a whole 'nuther subject. Just like media income and donations.

So if it's not government support for academics, and not fans, what is it?

Are you saying that it's government support for academics?

Or is it something else? What is the mechanism you're trying to discuss?

Is that a trick question? I have discussed the states' populations that correspond with the P5 Public universities in those states. What I have asserted is that states which are relatively small in population, by comparison to others, have a tougher time generating taxpayer funding for their P5 public universities. Simply by virtue of the fact their are fewer state taxpayers per school. Naturally this would apply to all Public universities in all state(s), not just the P5's, which are a small subset. But it would not apply to Private universities.

I am implying that small population statehouses, if ever pressed into budget difficulty, might consider reducing funds to one of their two P5's. Or to them both. The Universities. Not their Athletic Depts. I do not think single P5 states would be affected as much. But I am suggesting that this can add pressure to AD's....for those P5's which are not fully self-supported by fan money (tkts/donations), advertising and media money.

The idea is that small states may have a little less margin for error in their operations, and those "very" small population states who have 2 schools to support live a little closer to the edge.
04-29-2021 01:23 PM
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DawgNBama Offline
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Post: #36
RE: P5 Publics with Smallest State Support
(04-29-2021 07:17 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 05:04 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 11:59 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  Here is a full listing of all the states with P5 Public schools, in order by Population per P5 School, lowest to highest:

The States listed by Lowest Population per Public P5 University:

Kansas 1,470,432 (2,940,864 divided over 2 Public P5 schools)
Mississippi 1,481,958 (2,963,916 over 2 schools)
Iowa 1,596,204 (3,192,408 over 2 schools)
West Virginia 1,795,048 (1,795,048 over 1 school)
Nebraska 1,963,332 (1,963,332 over 1 school)
Oklahoma 1,981,758 (3,963,518 over 2 schools)
Oregon 2,120,751 (4,241,502 over 2 schools)
Kentucky 2,254,671 (4,509,342 over 2 schools)
Alabama 2,515,027 (5,030,054 over 2 schools)
South Carolina 2,562,357 (5,124,714 over 2 schools)
Arkansas 3,013,758 (3,013,758 over 1 school)
Utah 3,275,252 (3,275,252 over 1 school)
Indiana 3,395,142 (6,796,284 over 2 schools)
Arizona 3,579,462 (7,158,964 over 2 schools)
Washington 3,857,975 (7,715,950 over 2 schools)
Virginia 4,327,274 (8,654,548 over 2 schools)
Louisiana 4,661,468 (4,661,468 over 1 school)
Michigan 5,042,220 (10,084,440 over 2 schools)
North Carolina 5,226,978 (10,453,956 over 2 schools)
Georgia 5,362,637 (10,725,274 over 2 schools)
Minnesota 5,709,752 (5,709,752 over 1 school)
Colorado 5,782,168 (5,782,168 over 1 school)
Wisconsin 5,897,472 (5,897,472 over 1 school)
Missouri 6,160,280 (6,160,280 over 1 school)
Maryland 6,185,280 (6,185,280 over 1 school)
Tennessee 6,916,896 (6,916,896 over 1 school)
New Jersey 9,294,492 (9,294,492 over 1 school)
Texas 9,727,760 (29,183,280 over 3 schools)
Florida 10,785,264 (21,570,528 over 2 schools)
Ohio 11,808,859 (11,808,859 over 1 school)
Illinois 12,822,744 (12,822,744 over 1 school)
Pennsylvania 13,011,852 (13,011,852 over 1 school)
California 19,788,366 (39,576,732 over 2 schools)

Pittsburgh in PA so PA has 2 P5 public schools.

If we are discussing "fan support" potential, this is assuming that all public universities in the same state are "equal". In Texas, UT is certainly more popular than A&M and Tech (A&M is very popular, Tech lags). In Oklahoma, U of O is clearly the top dog. In other states, it might be more 50-50 (Arizona comes to mind).

Overall, Kansas is the #1 school in their state but in football we know they're pretty bad which makes Kansas State relevant (in men's basketball Wichita State might be more popular than KSU). I would think Iowa owns their state but it could be my Big Ten bias. I'd have to think Mississippi is more popular than Mississippi State but by how much I have no idea. What public university(universities) would have the smallest fan base based on population if you allot them "appropriately"?

Pitt is Private. They regard themselves as Private and they do not release data for public consumption.

The subject is not fan support. Per-Capita Taxpayer support is not proxied by Fan Support. And obvious to everyone is the fact that any shortage (or reduction) of taxpayer support to a public university can be compensated in many ways. But 2 P5 public schools operating within a comparatively small state, especially where the state is not growing, places added pressure on fans (and corporations) for donations and ticket sales.

Pitt is not Private. They're not state owned either. Pitt, Penn State, and Temple (G5) are all state-related.
04-29-2021 01:58 PM
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Post: #37
RE: P5 Publics with Smallest State Support
(04-29-2021 01:58 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(04-29-2021 07:17 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 05:04 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 11:59 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  Here is a full listing of all the states with P5 Public schools, in order by Population per P5 School, lowest to highest:

The States listed by Lowest Population per Public P5 University:

Kansas 1,470,432 (2,940,864 divided over 2 Public P5 schools)
Mississippi 1,481,958 (2,963,916 over 2 schools)
Iowa 1,596,204 (3,192,408 over 2 schools)
West Virginia 1,795,048 (1,795,048 over 1 school)
Nebraska 1,963,332 (1,963,332 over 1 school)
Oklahoma 1,981,758 (3,963,518 over 2 schools)
Oregon 2,120,751 (4,241,502 over 2 schools)
Kentucky 2,254,671 (4,509,342 over 2 schools)
Alabama 2,515,027 (5,030,054 over 2 schools)
South Carolina 2,562,357 (5,124,714 over 2 schools)
Arkansas 3,013,758 (3,013,758 over 1 school)
Utah 3,275,252 (3,275,252 over 1 school)
Indiana 3,395,142 (6,796,284 over 2 schools)
Arizona 3,579,462 (7,158,964 over 2 schools)
Washington 3,857,975 (7,715,950 over 2 schools)
Virginia 4,327,274 (8,654,548 over 2 schools)
Louisiana 4,661,468 (4,661,468 over 1 school)
Michigan 5,042,220 (10,084,440 over 2 schools)
North Carolina 5,226,978 (10,453,956 over 2 schools)
Georgia 5,362,637 (10,725,274 over 2 schools)
Minnesota 5,709,752 (5,709,752 over 1 school)
Colorado 5,782,168 (5,782,168 over 1 school)
Wisconsin 5,897,472 (5,897,472 over 1 school)
Missouri 6,160,280 (6,160,280 over 1 school)
Maryland 6,185,280 (6,185,280 over 1 school)
Tennessee 6,916,896 (6,916,896 over 1 school)
New Jersey 9,294,492 (9,294,492 over 1 school)
Texas 9,727,760 (29,183,280 over 3 schools)
Florida 10,785,264 (21,570,528 over 2 schools)
Ohio 11,808,859 (11,808,859 over 1 school)
Illinois 12,822,744 (12,822,744 over 1 school)
Pennsylvania 13,011,852 (13,011,852 over 1 school)
California 19,788,366 (39,576,732 over 2 schools)

Pittsburgh in PA so PA has 2 P5 public schools.

If we are discussing "fan support" potential, this is assuming that all public universities in the same state are "equal". In Texas, UT is certainly more popular than A&M and Tech (A&M is very popular, Tech lags). In Oklahoma, U of O is clearly the top dog. In other states, it might be more 50-50 (Arizona comes to mind).

Overall, Kansas is the #1 school in their state but in football we know they're pretty bad which makes Kansas State relevant (in men's basketball Wichita State might be more popular than KSU). I would think Iowa owns their state but it could be my Big Ten bias. I'd have to think Mississippi is more popular than Mississippi State but by how much I have no idea. What public university(universities) would have the smallest fan base based on population if you allot them "appropriately"?

Pitt is Private. They regard themselves as Private and they do not release data for public consumption.

The subject is not fan support. Per-Capita Taxpayer support is not proxied by Fan Support. And obvious to everyone is the fact that any shortage (or reduction) of taxpayer support to a public university can be compensated in many ways. But 2 P5 public schools operating within a comparatively small state, especially where the state is not growing, places added pressure on fans (and corporations) for donations and ticket sales.

Pitt is not Private. They're not state owned either. Pitt, Penn State, and Temple (G5) are all state-related.
Yes, I see they are in a rare category. I had always been confused because their data is not made available on several website databases.
"Pitt's State-related Status
A private institution for most of its 226-year history, the University of Pittsburgh became a state-related institution in 1966.

As a state-related university, Pitt receives an annual, non-preferred financial appropriation from the state and offers discounted tuition to students who are Pennsylvania residents. In addition, Pitt’s Board of Trustees includes a minority of state-appointed representatives. Legally, however, state-related universities are separate and private entities, in contrast to state-owned schools. This public-private hybrid system of higher education is unique in the nation.

Pennsylvania’s other state-related universities are Penn State, Lincoln University, and Temple University."


I will go on and revise the listing I provided, to show Pennsylvania with 2 Public schools.
(This post was last modified: 04-29-2021 02:09 PM by IHAVETRIED.)
04-29-2021 02:05 PM
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Post: #38
RE: P5 Publics with Smallest State Support
(04-29-2021 07:17 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 05:04 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 11:59 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  Here is a full listing of all the states with P5 Public schools, in order by Population per P5 School, lowest to highest:

The States listed by Lowest Population per Public P5 University:

Kansas 1,470,432 (2,940,864 divided over 2 Public P5 schools)
Mississippi 1,481,958 (2,963,916 over 2 schools)
Iowa 1,596,204 (3,192,408 over 2 schools)
West Virginia 1,795,048 (1,795,048 over 1 school)
Nebraska 1,963,332 (1,963,332 over 1 school)
Oklahoma 1,981,758 (3,963,518 over 2 schools)
Oregon 2,120,751 (4,241,502 over 2 schools)
Kentucky 2,254,671 (4,509,342 over 2 schools)
Alabama 2,515,027 (5,030,054 over 2 schools)
South Carolina 2,562,357 (5,124,714 over 2 schools)
Arkansas 3,013,758 (3,013,758 over 1 school)
Utah 3,275,252 (3,275,252 over 1 school)
Indiana 3,395,142 (6,796,284 over 2 schools)
Arizona 3,579,462 (7,158,964 over 2 schools)
Washington 3,857,975 (7,715,950 over 2 schools)
Virginia 4,327,274 (8,654,548 over 2 schools)
Louisiana 4,661,468 (4,661,468 over 1 school)
Michigan 5,042,220 (10,084,440 over 2 schools)
North Carolina 5,226,978 (10,453,956 over 2 schools)
Georgia 5,362,637 (10,725,274 over 2 schools)
Minnesota 5,709,752 (5,709,752 over 1 school)
Colorado 5,782,168 (5,782,168 over 1 school)
Wisconsin 5,897,472 (5,897,472 over 1 school)
Missouri 6,160,280 (6,160,280 over 1 school)
Maryland 6,185,280 (6,185,280 over 1 school)
Tennessee 6,916,896 (6,916,896 over 1 school)
New Jersey 9,294,492 (9,294,492 over 1 school)
Texas 9,727,760 (29,183,280 over 3 schools)
Florida 10,785,264 (21,570,528 over 2 schools)
Ohio 11,808,859 (11,808,859 over 1 school)
Illinois 12,822,744 (12,822,744 over 1 school)
Pennsylvania 13,011,852 (13,011,852 over 1 school)
California 19,788,366 (39,576,732 over 2 schools)

Pittsburgh in PA so PA has 2 P5 public schools.

If we are discussing "fan support" potential, this is assuming that all public universities in the same state are "equal". In Texas, UT is certainly more popular than A&M and Tech (A&M is very popular, Tech lags). In Oklahoma, U of O is clearly the top dog. In other states, it might be more 50-50 (Arizona comes to mind).

Overall, Kansas is the #1 school in their state but in football we know they're pretty bad which makes Kansas State relevant (in men's basketball Wichita State might be more popular than KSU). I would think Iowa owns their state but it could be my Big Ten bias. I'd have to think Mississippi is more popular than Mississippi State but by how much I have no idea. What public university(universities) would have the smallest fan base based on population if you allot them "appropriately"?

Pitt is Private. They regard themselves as Private and they do not release data for public consumption.

The subject is not fan support. Per-Capita Taxpayer support is not proxied by Fan Support. And obvious to everyone is the fact that any shortage (or reduction) of taxpayer support to a public university can be compensated in many ways. But 2 P5 public schools operating within a comparatively small state, especially where the state is not growing, places added pressure on fans (and corporations) for donations and ticket sales.

Pitt, Temple and Penn State only disclose limited information because they are largely exempt from state open records law. They are neither fully public or private but are defined as “state-related” in PA code. Basically those schools and Lincoln agree to limited disclosure, plus state representation on their boards in return for an annual appropriation. What Pitt discloses has nothing to do with how they view themselves.
04-29-2021 02:05 PM
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IHAVETRIED Offline
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Post: #39
RE: P5 Publics with Smallest State Support
(04-29-2021 02:05 PM)LostInSpace Wrote:  
(04-29-2021 07:17 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 05:04 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 11:59 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  Here is a full listing of all the states with P5 Public schools, in order by Population per P5 School, lowest to highest:

The States listed by Lowest Population per Public P5 University:

Kansas 1,470,432 (2,940,864 divided over 2 Public P5 schools)
Mississippi 1,481,958 (2,963,916 over 2 schools)
Iowa 1,596,204 (3,192,408 over 2 schools)
West Virginia 1,795,048 (1,795,048 over 1 school)
Nebraska 1,963,332 (1,963,332 over 1 school)
Oklahoma 1,981,758 (3,963,518 over 2 schools)
Oregon 2,120,751 (4,241,502 over 2 schools)
Kentucky 2,254,671 (4,509,342 over 2 schools)
Alabama 2,515,027 (5,030,054 over 2 schools)
South Carolina 2,562,357 (5,124,714 over 2 schools)
Arkansas 3,013,758 (3,013,758 over 1 school)
Utah 3,275,252 (3,275,252 over 1 school)
Indiana 3,395,142 (6,796,284 over 2 schools)
Arizona 3,579,462 (7,158,964 over 2 schools)
Washington 3,857,975 (7,715,950 over 2 schools)
Virginia 4,327,274 (8,654,548 over 2 schools)
Louisiana 4,661,468 (4,661,468 over 1 school)
Michigan 5,042,220 (10,084,440 over 2 schools)
North Carolina 5,226,978 (10,453,956 over 2 schools)
Georgia 5,362,637 (10,725,274 over 2 schools)
Minnesota 5,709,752 (5,709,752 over 1 school)
Colorado 5,782,168 (5,782,168 over 1 school)
Wisconsin 5,897,472 (5,897,472 over 1 school)
Missouri 6,160,280 (6,160,280 over 1 school)
Maryland 6,185,280 (6,185,280 over 1 school)
Tennessee 6,916,896 (6,916,896 over 1 school)
New Jersey 9,294,492 (9,294,492 over 1 school)
Texas 9,727,760 (29,183,280 over 3 schools)
Florida 10,785,264 (21,570,528 over 2 schools)
Ohio 11,808,859 (11,808,859 over 1 school)
Illinois 12,822,744 (12,822,744 over 1 school)
Pennsylvania 13,011,852 (13,011,852 over 1 school)
California 19,788,366 (39,576,732 over 2 schools)

Pittsburgh in PA so PA has 2 P5 public schools.

If we are discussing "fan support" potential, this is assuming that all public universities in the same state are "equal". In Texas, UT is certainly more popular than A&M and Tech (A&M is very popular, Tech lags). In Oklahoma, U of O is clearly the top dog. In other states, it might be more 50-50 (Arizona comes to mind).

Overall, Kansas is the #1 school in their state but in football we know they're pretty bad which makes Kansas State relevant (in men's basketball Wichita State might be more popular than KSU). I would think Iowa owns their state but it could be my Big Ten bias. I'd have to think Mississippi is more popular than Mississippi State but by how much I have no idea. What public university(universities) would have the smallest fan base based on population if you allot them "appropriately"?

Pitt is Private. They regard themselves as Private and they do not release data for public consumption.

The subject is not fan support. Per-Capita Taxpayer support is not proxied by Fan Support. And obvious to everyone is the fact that any shortage (or reduction) of taxpayer support to a public university can be compensated in many ways. But 2 P5 public schools operating within a comparatively small state, especially where the state is not growing, places added pressure on fans (and corporations) for donations and ticket sales.

Pitt, Temple and Penn State only disclose limited information because they are largely exempt from state open records law. They are neither fully public or private but are defined as “state-related” in PA code. Basically those schools and Lincoln agree to limited disclosure, plus state representation on their boards in return for an annual appropriation. What Pitt discloses has nothing to do with how they view themselves.
Boy, I don't see why other public universities don't try that cover. Nothing like having your cake and eating it too.
04-29-2021 02:11 PM
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IHAVETRIED Offline
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Post: #40
RE: P5 Publics with Smallest State Support
Adjusted List with Pitt now included in Pennsylvania as a Public university.

The States listed by Lowest Population per Public P5 University:

Kansas 1,470,432 (2,940,864 divided over 2 Public P5 schools)
Mississippi 1,481,958 (2,963,916 over 2 schools)
Iowa 1,596,204 (3,192,408 over 2 schools)
West Virginia 1,795,048 (1,795,048 over 1 school)
Nebraska 1,963,332 (1,963,332 over 1 school)
Oklahoma 1,981,758 (3,963,518 over 2 schools)
Oregon 2,120,751 (4,241,502 over 2 schools)
Kentucky 2,254,671 (4,509,342 over 2 schools)
Alabama 2,515,027 (5,030,054 over 2 schools)
South Carolina 2,562,357 (5,124,714 over 2 schools)
Arkansas 3,013,758 (3,013,758 over 1 school)
Utah 3,275,252 (3,275,252 over 1 school)
Indiana 3,395,142 (6,796,284 over 2 schools)
Arizona 3,579,462 (7,158,964 over 2 schools)
Washington 3,857,975 (7,715,950 over 2 schools)
Virginia 4,327,274 (8,654,548 over 2 schools)
Louisiana 4,661,468 (4,661,468 over 1 school)
Michigan 5,042,220 (10,084,440 over 2 schools)
North Carolina 5,226,978 (10,453,956 over 2 schools)
Georgia 5,362,637 (10,725,274 over 2 schools)
Minnesota 5,709,752 (5,709,752 over 1 school)
Colorado 5,782,168 (5,782,168 over 1 school)
Wisconsin 5,897,472 (5,897,472 over 1 school)
Missouri 6,160,280 (6,160,280 over 1 school)
Maryland 6,185,280 (6,185,280 over 1 school)
Pennsylvania 6,505,926 (13,011,852 over 2 schools) (Pitt now included)
Tennessee 6,916,896 (6,916,896 over 1 school)
New Jersey 9,294,492 (9,294,492 over 1 school)
Texas 9,727,760 (29,183,280 over 3 schools)
Florida 10,785,264 (21,570,528 over 2 schools)
Ohio 11,808,859 (11,808,859 over 1 school)
Illinois 12,822,744 (12,822,744 over 1 school)
California 19,788,366 (39,576,732 over 2 schools)
(This post was last modified: 04-29-2021 02:14 PM by IHAVETRIED.)
04-29-2021 02:14 PM
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