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ccd494 Offline
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Post: #61
RE: The NoDak Memorial College Hockey Start-Up Rumors Thread
(06-03-2021 12:01 AM)nodak651 Wrote:  I believe you, but do you have a link to the UNLV comment you mention? I think UNLV is only a matter of time. They will have great attendance, aided in part due to their location being a destination for northern fans, but more importantly there is potential for major donors with the casinos there. The engelstads who built und's arena are also major donors to the university and they have already donated nearly a million dollars to the club team. A handful of arena options are already in the area as well. Casinos could also potentially partner on new construction.

Here's the list of every program that has joined D-I since the year 2000:

1. Mercyhurst (2000): elevated a successful D-II/III program.
2. Robert Morris (2004): died.
3. RIT (2005): elevated a successful D-III program.
4. Penn State (2012): $102M donation for an arena and a program.
5. Arizona State (2015): $32M donation, no arena, still an independent.
6. Long Island (2020): funding their program at a sub D-III level. We will see.
7. St. Thomas (2021): elevating a D-III program.

Let's look at the different paths:

1. Go the RIT/STU route and elevate your successful D-III program. No D-III athletic department can move up to D-I in one sport only anymore. You need to move your entire athletic department up to at least D-II. St. Thomas' one time waiver is a unique case, but theoretically this path remains viable.

2. Go the Mercyhurst route and elevate your successful D-II program. The only D-II programs left are the seven in the Northeast-10 (Assumption, Franklin Pierce, SNHU, Saint Anselm, Saint Michael's, Stonehill, Post). I wouldn't call any "successful" but legally, they can move up if they want.

3. Go the Penn State route with a MEGA donation.

4. Go the Arizona State route with a big donation, and figure out or find an arena.

5. Go the RMU/LIU route, make up a program using tape, thumbtacks, and crepe paper, and see what happens.

Obviously, option 3 is your best bet, followed by 4, 1, 2, 5.

If UNLV can find a huge donor, good for them, but I'm skeptical that "the casinos" will see value in pumping $100M into UNLV hockey just to bring in gamblers. Seems more cost effective to pump $50M into UNLV football, turn them into Boise State south, and bump attendance from 15,000/game to 40,000/game. And it wouldn't even involve the headache of adding a sport, or messing with your Title IX balance, or finding a new conference for your new sport.
06-03-2021 10:00 AM
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dbackjon Offline
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RE: The NoDak Memorial College Hockey Start-Up Rumors Thread
(05-28-2021 12:22 AM)Mav Wrote:  
(05-28-2021 12:10 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(05-27-2021 11:57 PM)Mav Wrote:  
(05-06-2021 01:05 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  It does seem odd that UC-Boulder and Colorado St don’t sponsor ice hockey. I think the demographics are there—they just need the start up money.
UC-Boulder is more interested in supporting skiing and competing at a power conference level. Denver benefits from not having football and being a low major in Olympic sports. I don't think a school with CU's culture and budget can compete at hockey while trying to maintain at a P5 in major sports.

I'm not overly familiar with CSU, but I imagine they're more interested in trying to compete in the MWC and occasionally beat Colorado than fielding another sport to be mediocre at.

The cultures at CU and CSU are nothing like a hockey school. DU and CC are the exact schools you’d expect to be hockey-centric.
Exactly. I don't see many schools out west that hockey would be a good fit for. Arizona State still feels awkward and UNLV did even moreso before the athletic department shot down the idea.


When NAU had a DI program, that was a good fit (cold weather school, large enrollment from Alaska).
06-03-2021 10:32 AM
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ccd494 Offline
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RE: The NoDak Memorial College Hockey Start-Up Rumors Thread
(06-03-2021 10:32 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  When NAU had a DI program, that was a good fit (cold weather school, large enrollment from Alaska).

NAU actually cobbled together a small "conference" out west, too, with Alaska-Anchorage, Alaska-Fairbanks, and US International. Funding cuts and the need for expensive arena upgrades ended the program. USIU followed a few years later.

College hockey is suuuuuuuper expensive. The equipment, facilities, and travel are all prohibitive on a year by year basis, let alone a startup. I am really, really skeptical that LIU will be able to do this on a shoestring- they are spending less on hockey than all the other Atlantic Hockey schools which are on the bottom rung nationally. These random small schools like Tennessee State that do feasibility studies, we know what the study will say: sure, if you can find the money, hockey could work here.

I think Lindenwood is a real possibility (because they have women's hockey and a rink and can overlap some expenses). Maaaaaybe there is some D-III school somewhere that has hockey that is going to elevate to D-II for all sports and they will bump hockey up to D-I. Otherwise? It's going to be people that find a huge donor or have an ability to cobble together a bunch of donations (Illinois?).
06-03-2021 11:43 AM
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whittx Offline
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RE: The NoDak Memorial College Hockey Start-Up Rumors Thread
(06-03-2021 10:00 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  
(06-03-2021 12:01 AM)nodak651 Wrote:  I believe you, but do you have a link to the UNLV comment you mention? I think UNLV is only a matter of time. They will have great attendance, aided in part due to their location being a destination for northern fans, but more importantly there is potential for major donors with the casinos there. The engelstads who built und's arena are also major donors to the university and they have already donated nearly a million dollars to the club team. A handful of arena options are already in the area as well. Casinos could also potentially partner on new construction.

Here's the list of every program that has joined D-I since the year 2000:

1. Mercyhurst (2000): elevated a successful D-II/III program.
2. Robert Morris (2004): died.
3. RIT (2005): elevated a successful D-III program.
4. Penn State (2012): $102M donation for an arena and a program.
5. Arizona State (2015): $32M donation, no arena, still an independent.
6. Long Island (2020): funding their program at a sub D-III level. We will see.
7. St. Thomas (2021): elevating a D-III program.

Let's look at the different paths:

1. Go the RIT/STU route and elevate your successful D-III program. No D-III athletic department can move up to D-I in one sport only anymore. You need to move your entire athletic department up to at least D-II. St. Thomas' one time waiver is a unique case, but theoretically this path remains viable.

2. Go the Mercyhurst route and elevate your successful D-II program. The only D-II programs left are the seven in the Northeast-10 (Assumption, Franklin Pierce, SNHU, Saint Anselm, Saint Michael's, Stonehill, Post). I wouldn't call any "successful" but legally, they can move up if they want.

3. Go the Penn State route with a MEGA donation.

4. Go the Arizona State route with a big donation, and figure out or find an arena.

5. Go the RMU/LIU route, make up a program using tape, thumbtacks, and crepe paper, and see what happens.

Obviously, option 3 is your best bet, followed by 4, 1, 2, 5.

If UNLV can find a huge donor, good for them, but I'm skeptical that "the casinos" will see value in pumping $100M into UNLV hockey just to bring in gamblers. Seems more cost effective to pump $50M into UNLV football, turn them into Boise State south, and bump attendance from 15,000/game to 40,000/game. And it wouldn't even involve the headache of adding a sport, or messing with your Title IX balance, or finding a new conference for your new sport.

And RIT managed to upgrade to a new arena within the same time period that ASU will have done so.
06-03-2021 01:29 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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RE: The NoDak Memorial College Hockey Start-Up Rumors Thread
(06-03-2021 11:43 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  
(06-03-2021 10:32 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  When NAU had a DI program, that was a good fit (cold weather school, large enrollment from Alaska).

NAU actually cobbled together a small "conference" out west, too, with Alaska-Anchorage, Alaska-Fairbanks, and US International. Funding cuts and the need for expensive arena upgrades ended the program. USIU followed a few years later.

College hockey is suuuuuuuper expensive. The equipment, facilities, and travel are all prohibitive on a year by year basis, let alone a startup. I am really, really skeptical that LIU will be able to do this on a shoestring- they are spending less on hockey than all the other Atlantic Hockey schools which are on the bottom rung nationally. These random small schools like Tennessee State that do feasibility studies, we know what the study will say: sure, if you can find the money, hockey could work here.

I think Lindenwood is a real possibility (because they have women's hockey and a rink and can overlap some expenses). Maaaaaybe there is some D-III school somewhere that has hockey that is going to elevate to D-II for all sports and they will bump hockey up to D-I. Otherwise? It's going to be people that find a huge donor or have an ability to cobble together a bunch of donations (Illinois?).

Yup - the ice rink (which was in one end of the Skydome, basketball court in the other) broke and no money to fix it.


Maine got a good transfer from NAU - Bob Beers.
06-03-2021 03:41 PM
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Gamecock Offline
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RE: The NoDak Memorial College Hockey Start-Up Rumors Thread
I understand why, but I really do wish that hockey was more popular in the southeast and was viable in the SEC. Would actively watch and attend USC games if they had a scholarship program.
06-07-2021 01:55 PM
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nodak651 Offline
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RE: The NoDak Memorial College Hockey Start-Up Rumors Thread
Interesting article with new info about how the program was cut at Robert Morris.


ALTOONA, Pa. -- Robert Morris University's controversial decision May 26 to suddenly eliminate the men's and women's hockey teams, one that's gained attention across the continent, was made without a vote of the school's Board of Trustees, multiple sources confirmed to DK Pittsburgh Sports Tuesday night.

The decision was made, per our sources, entirely by Morgan O'Brien, the board's chairman, and Chris Howard, the school president. Those two made the call unilaterally. No prior information was disseminated, and no consensus of any kind was achieved at the time or, for that matter, since. When the information was shared, it occurred over a 10-minute Zoom call in which Howard took no questions from any of participants in the session......... continued here: https://dkpittsburghsports.com/2021/05/3...oard-jp-dk
06-08-2021 11:24 AM
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nodak651 Offline
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RE: The NoDak Memorial College Hockey Start-Up Rumors Thread
https://twitter.com/DVEMike/status/1399715215198101505
Mike Prisuta@DVEMike
Pens also blindsided by RMU hockey decision. Had been working with RMU on 3rd Cranberry sheet to solve facilities issue (5 architect designs/financial models studied). Hopeful funding could be raised, solution achieved. Never asked to “save” program/no idea it needed to be saved.

https://triblive.com/sports/how-steelers...t-to-help/
"The Penguins have long been in conversations with Robert Morris about being part of an expansion of the UPMC Sports Performance Complex. It’s a plan that would’ve required the Colonials to build their own locker room with access to a new third sheet of ice in Cranberry. But the bill could’ve been paid down over time. And the ice time costs could’ve been roughly offset by the slots opened up at the Island Sports Center with the Colonials vacating all those practice times and game nights.

Four people in the athletic department have informed me that Athletic Director Chris King and men’s coach Derek Schooley were looking at artistic renderings as recently as the Frozen Four in April."
(This post was last modified: 06-08-2021 11:40 AM by nodak651.)
06-08-2021 11:31 AM
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RE: The NoDak Memorial College Hockey Start-Up Rumors Thread
(06-07-2021 01:55 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  I understand why, but I really do wish that hockey was more popular in the southeast and was viable in the SEC. Would actively watch and attend USC games if they had a scholarship program.

I know for some schools like FSU, the lack of local facilities has turned their club team into vagabonds, searching for ice time. Personally, I wish that the folks in Tallahassee (including FSU and FAMU) had gotten together and built a 2 sheet facility with a 5-7,000 seat arena for FAMU events, concerts, and a potential SPHL team, along with a practice rink. Now that FAMU has their oversized arena and the plans that FSU has for the Tucker Center/Law School area do not include an ice sheet, unless there is a donor willing to put up substantial funding for a rink or a private company decides to build a full sized year-round rink, the trips to Orlando and Columbus will continue.
06-09-2021 05:06 AM
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Mav Offline
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RE: The NoDak Memorial College Hockey Start-Up Rumors Thread
(06-03-2021 12:01 AM)nodak651 Wrote:  
(05-28-2021 12:22 AM)Mav Wrote:  
(05-28-2021 12:10 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(05-27-2021 11:57 PM)Mav Wrote:  
(05-06-2021 01:05 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  It does seem odd that UC-Boulder and Colorado St don’t sponsor ice hockey. I think the demographics are there—they just need the start up money.
UC-Boulder is more interested in supporting skiing and competing at a power conference level. Denver benefits from not having football and being a low major in Olympic sports. I don't think a school with CU's culture and budget can compete at hockey while trying to maintain at a P5 in major sports.

I'm not overly familiar with CSU, but I imagine they're more interested in trying to compete in the MWC and occasionally beat Colorado than fielding another sport to be mediocre at.

The cultures at CU and CSU are nothing like a hockey school. DU and CC are the exact schools you’d expect to be hockey-centric.
Exactly. I don't see many schools out west that hockey would be a good fit for. Arizona State still feels awkward and UNLV did even moreso before the athletic department shot down the idea.

I believe you, but do you have a link to the UNLV comment you mention? I think UNLV is only a matter of time. They will have great attendance, aided in part due to their location being a destination for northern fans, but more importantly there is potential for major donors with the casinos there. The engelstads who built und's arena are also major donors to the university and they have already donated nearly a million dollars to the club team. A handful of arena options are already in the area as well. Casinos could also potentially partner on new construction.
https://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/spo...s-1566599/

It's actually harsher than I remembered. The AD said she wants to focus on improving football and basketball. It makes sense. UNLV is in a great place geographically recruiting-wise for football and their basketball program has been considered underachieving for a while now.
06-10-2021 12:16 AM
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ccd494 Offline
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RE: The NoDak Memorial College Hockey Start-Up Rumors Thread
Seems like the next school up may be our old friend Augustana: https://goaugie.com/news/2021/6/16/gener...ockey.aspx

Augustana would be the first school in South Dakota with D-I ice hockey. It seems like they are going with the "big gift" model, and will be building a rink on campus. That certainly is the recipe for success, as compared to the "on a shoestring" model we have seen fail recently.

I have to imagine some of the impetus for this is Augustana's continuing inability to find a full D-I conference. Staying D-II, sponsoring D-I ice hockey against many of the schools that are in all-sports conferences Augustana is interested in, building some relationships, could be a ticket to moving the whole athletic department up.
06-16-2021 10:19 AM
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RE: The NoDak Memorial College Hockey Start-Up Rumors Thread
(06-16-2021 10:19 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  Seems like the next school up may be our old friend Augustana: https://goaugie.com/news/2021/6/16/gener...ockey.aspx

Augustana would be the first school in South Dakota with D-I ice hockey. It seems like they are going with the "big gift" model, and will be building a rink on campus. That certainly is the recipe for success, as compared to the "on a shoestring" model we have seen fail recently.

I have to imagine some of the impetus for this is Augustana's continuing inability to find a full D-I conference. Staying D-II, sponsoring D-I ice hockey against many of the schools that are in all-sports conferences Augustana is interested in, building some relationships, could be a ticket to moving the whole athletic department up.

Augustana has a lot of plans. They planned to be in the Summit by 2020. Good luck to them but I'll believe it when I see it.
06-16-2021 11:06 AM
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ccd494 Offline
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RE: The NoDak Memorial College Hockey Start-Up Rumors Thread
(06-16-2021 11:06 AM)AZcats Wrote:  
(06-16-2021 10:19 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  Seems like the next school up may be our old friend Augustana: https://goaugie.com/news/2021/6/16/gener...ockey.aspx

Augustana would be the first school in South Dakota with D-I ice hockey. It seems like they are going with the "big gift" model, and will be building a rink on campus. That certainly is the recipe for success, as compared to the "on a shoestring" model we have seen fail recently.

I have to imagine some of the impetus for this is Augustana's continuing inability to find a full D-I conference. Staying D-II, sponsoring D-I ice hockey against many of the schools that are in all-sports conferences Augustana is interested in, building some relationships, could be a ticket to moving the whole athletic department up.

Augustana has a lot of plans. They planned to be in the Summit by 2020. Good luck to them but I'll believe it when I see it.

Well, at least this plan they can solve unilaterally with money. Joining the Summit required the acquiescence of the Summit.
06-16-2021 11:13 AM
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RE: The NoDak Memorial College Hockey Start-Up Rumors Thread
(06-16-2021 11:13 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  
(06-16-2021 11:06 AM)AZcats Wrote:  
(06-16-2021 10:19 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  Seems like the next school up may be our old friend Augustana: https://goaugie.com/news/2021/6/16/gener...ockey.aspx

Augustana would be the first school in South Dakota with D-I ice hockey. It seems like they are going with the "big gift" model, and will be building a rink on campus. That certainly is the recipe for success, as compared to the "on a shoestring" model we have seen fail recently.

I have to imagine some of the impetus for this is Augustana's continuing inability to find a full D-I conference. Staying D-II, sponsoring D-I ice hockey against many of the schools that are in all-sports conferences Augustana is interested in, building some relationships, could be a ticket to moving the whole athletic department up.

Augustana has a lot of plans. They planned to be in the Summit by 2020. Good luck to them but I'll believe it when I see it.

Well, at least this plan they can solve unilaterally with money. Joining the Summit required the acquiescence of the Summit.

And since the lead gift is from T Denny Sanford, seems like a big FU to the Summit
06-16-2021 11:25 AM
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ccd494 Offline
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RE: The NoDak Memorial College Hockey Start-Up Rumors Thread
(06-16-2021 11:25 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(06-16-2021 11:13 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  
(06-16-2021 11:06 AM)AZcats Wrote:  
(06-16-2021 10:19 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  Seems like the next school up may be our old friend Augustana: https://goaugie.com/news/2021/6/16/gener...ockey.aspx

Augustana would be the first school in South Dakota with D-I ice hockey. It seems like they are going with the "big gift" model, and will be building a rink on campus. That certainly is the recipe for success, as compared to the "on a shoestring" model we have seen fail recently.

I have to imagine some of the impetus for this is Augustana's continuing inability to find a full D-I conference. Staying D-II, sponsoring D-I ice hockey against many of the schools that are in all-sports conferences Augustana is interested in, building some relationships, could be a ticket to moving the whole athletic department up.

Augustana has a lot of plans. They planned to be in the Summit by 2020. Good luck to them but I'll believe it when I see it.

Well, at least this plan they can solve unilaterally with money. Joining the Summit required the acquiescence of the Summit.

And since the lead gift is from T Denny Sanford, seems like a big FU to the Summit

I'd bet they are aiming for the CCHA, maybe joining at the same time as Lindenwood to be programs 9 and 10. The only Summit program in the CCHA will be St. Thomas, so it is unlikely any acrimony could sink Augustana's application.

The NCHC, with Omaha, North Dakota, and Denver, probably would be a non-starter (not that the NCHC is interested in a startup, but theoretically).

Assuming Augustana and Lindenwood start at the same time, there could be as many as five independents that year- those two, Alaska, Arizona State, and LIU. One more, and you have a conference. Alabama-Huntsville is paying lip service to the idea that they could come back if they found a conference. My suspicion is that the powers that be at UAH would prefer the program die, but there could be an opportunity.
06-16-2021 11:38 AM
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RE: The NoDak Memorial College Hockey Start-Up Rumors Thread
The CCHA schools might not be interested in adding the extra travel that these potential new members would add.
06-16-2021 11:56 AM
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RE: The NoDak Memorial College Hockey Start-Up Rumors Thread
(06-16-2021 11:56 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The CCHA schools might not be interested in adding the extra travel that these potential new members would add.

Augustana would pair perfectly with Minnesota State-Mankato, the two schools are only 160 miles apart. Lindenwood is the one that really sticks out from CCHA locations.
06-16-2021 01:22 PM
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RE: The NoDak Memorial College Hockey Start-Up Rumors Thread
Augustana would actually be a solid fit for college hockey. Sioux Falls draws great in the USHL and they're not too far from the Minnesota schools or UNO. It wouldn't be football-first like the xDSU schools. I think they can be successful at the sport, though they're probably looking at CCHA status or maybe going indie and forming a sort of Great West with the other indies.

If they move up and the Summit lets them in, their presence would also put Summit Hockey at 5 teams, one away from potentially pulling a B1G and sending the realignment dominos falling again. 05-stirthepot
(This post was last modified: 06-16-2021 05:33 PM by Mav.)
06-16-2021 05:19 PM
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RE: The NoDak Memorial College Hockey Start-Up Rumors Thread
My apologies if this has been posted:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/22/us/tennes...index.html
06-16-2021 05:48 PM
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RE: The NoDak Memorial College Hockey Start-Up Rumors Thread
https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/co...story.html

Illinois AD discussed where they stand with the potential new hockey program and facility.
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