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nightowl24 Offline
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Rice Kids
Man o man.. if yall didn't come to the region 3 meet yall missed these rice kids acting out. The highlight was Trevion mccalla...1st in both the 100 and the 200...10.27 and 20.94. Both 2nd fastest in the state. Josh mcmillan II anchored 2nd place 4x1. Lost by .01 3rd fastest time in the state 2nd fastest qualifying time. Donovan Bradley ran 2nd leg on 2nd place 4x4. Karon Gordon 2nd place AS A FRESHMAN in the tj 48'+.

In every single race there was some kid or team that was ranked at the top or near the top nationally. It was highly impressive.
04-25-2021 01:09 AM
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WRCisforgotten79 Offline
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RE: Rice Kids
(04-25-2021 01:09 AM)nightowl24 Wrote:  Man o man.. if yall didn't come to the region 3 meet yall missed these rice kids acting out. The highlight was Trevion mccalla...1st in both the 100 and the 200...10.27 and 20.94. Both 2nd fastest in the state. Josh mcmillan II anchored 2nd place 4x1. Lost by .01 3rd fastest time in the state 2nd fastest qualifying time. Donovan Bradley ran 2nd leg on 2nd place 4x4. Karon Gordon 2nd place AS A FRESHMAN in the tj 48'+.

In every single race there was some kid or team that was ranked at the top or near the top nationally. It was highly impressive.

Don't forget - we had a couple of distance runners (Rice kids) at the regionals, one senior, one freshman.
04-25-2021 01:44 AM
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nightowl24 Offline
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RE: Rice Kids
(04-25-2021 01:44 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  
(04-25-2021 01:09 AM)nightowl24 Wrote:  Man o man.. if yall didn't come to the region 3 meet yall missed these rice kids acting out. The highlight was Trevion mccalla...1st in both the 100 and the 200...10.27 and 20.94. Both 2nd fastest in the state. Josh mcmillan II anchored 2nd place 4x1. Lost by .01 3rd fastest time in the state 2nd fastest qualifying time. Donovan Bradley ran 2nd leg on 2nd place 4x4. Karon Gordon 2nd place AS A FRESHMAN in the tj 48'+.

In every single race there was some kid or team that was ranked at the top or near the top nationally. It was highly impressive.

Don't forget - we had a couple of distance runners (Rice kids) at the regionals, one senior, one freshman.

I didn't know... please share the names. They deserve credit!!!!
04-25-2021 02:30 AM
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WRCisforgotten79 Offline
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RE: Rice Kids
(04-25-2021 02:30 AM)nightowl24 Wrote:  
(04-25-2021 01:44 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  
(04-25-2021 01:09 AM)nightowl24 Wrote:  Man o man.. if yall didn't come to the region 3 meet yall missed these rice kids acting out. The highlight was Trevion mccalla...1st in both the 100 and the 200...10.27 and 20.94. Both 2nd fastest in the state. Josh mcmillan II anchored 2nd place 4x1. Lost by .01 3rd fastest time in the state 2nd fastest qualifying time. Donovan Bradley ran 2nd leg on 2nd place 4x4. Karon Gordon 2nd place AS A FRESHMAN in the tj 48'+.

In every single race there was some kid or team that was ranked at the top or near the top nationally. It was highly impressive.

Don't forget - we had a couple of distance runners (Rice kids) at the regionals, one senior, one freshman.

I didn't know... please share the names. They deserve credit!!!!

Cate Urbani (Bellaire) - senior - was 3rd in the 6A girls 3200 and 6th in the 1600. Mom - Molly (Hooks) Urbani is a Rice graduate and was a member of the women's track and field/ cross country team.

Niamh Collins (Stratford) - freshman - 6th in the 6A girls 800. Dad (Robert) was a Rice tennis player, and mom (Alexis (Smith)) was a Rice track and field/ cross country runner.
04-25-2021 11:01 AM
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nightowl24 Offline
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RE: Rice Kids
That's AWESOME congrats to this young ladies. Region 3 is HOT this year. I saw these races and Lord they were moving!!!
(This post was last modified: 04-25-2021 10:44 PM by nightowl24.)
04-25-2021 12:11 PM
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ExcitedOwl18 Offline
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RE: Rice Kids
Is there anywhere online that has the region meet results?

My cousin’s son just made state (2A-so small school) in the discus and I want to look at his potential seeding.
04-25-2021 12:29 PM
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RE: Rice Kids
(04-25-2021 12:29 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  Is there anywhere online that has the region meet results?

My cousin’s son just made state (2A-so small school) in the discus and I want to look at his potential seeding.

Congrats!!

Maybe start here: https://www.athletic.net/TrackAndField/Texas/UIL2A.aspx

You can click on "Performance Lists" to see the best results.

Or, you can click on a school to (ultimately) get to that school's regional results, such as this for 2A Region II: https://www.athletic.net/TrackAndField/m...05/results

I didn't see one (in a quick search), so maybe it will take a day or two for UIL to publish the state meet qualifiers.
04-25-2021 12:51 PM
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nightowl24 Offline
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RE: Rice Kids
congrats to your cousin!!! yeah http://www.athletic.net is a good start. as of mid day today there was still some regions missing.
04-25-2021 10:45 PM
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nightowl24 Offline
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RE: Rice Kids
Just got word that D. Wilimington's daughter was competing at this meet as well. What really frustrating is there's been a decent amount of alumni's kids here in Houston that are top tier that rice isn't even going after. These kids are better than what they recruited. It really makes us alumni really upset that your school doesn't even look to your kids that are great students,, great kids and elite athletes. Can anyone explain why this is happening?
04-26-2021 11:34 PM
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RiceLad15 Offline
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RE: Rice Kids
(04-26-2021 11:34 PM)nightowl24 Wrote:  Just got word that D. Wilimington's daughter was competing at this meet as well. What really frustrating is there's been a decent amount of alumni's kids here in Houston that are top tier that rice isn't even going after. These kids are better than what they recruited. It really makes us alumni really upset that your school doesn't even look to your kids that are great students,, great kids and elite athletes. Can anyone explain why this is happening?

Does the university have an easy and effective way of knowing these kids exist?

I know very little of the recruiting process, but is there some point during it where a very wide net is cast and children of ex-Rice athlete would be identified? If not, how easily could that information be pulled together by a staff?

I agree with the sentiment, let’s leverage the connections. Just wondering how realistic it is to track when ex-athletes have kids, which ones go into sports, and which ones compete at a high enough level to warrant a scholarship offer.
04-27-2021 05:28 AM
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nightowl24 Offline
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RE: Rice Kids
they know they exist, they just aren't recruiting them..which is mind boggling. I've talked to several club coaches and hs coaches and they have informed rice about these kids. hs coaches know that having a connection with a school impacts a kid going to a school or not, so they use that when talking to schools.

there really is no excuse for kids that are living in houston and surrounding areas. i get kids that live out of state, i mean it would hard to know about that easily. these kids are right here in houston, have had multiple articles written about them and are easily known.

wrap your head around this....tre mccalla has the FASTEST time in the nation(as a soph tre won JO's in the 100).....DJ bradley is top 6 in the state and the #1 soph in the 300H(i think 2-3wks in a row he was in tight race with Mccray from george ranch who has the fastest time in the nation)....there is NO WAY you are a collegiate track coach and you don't know these kids names, i know for a fact that milesplit has had videos of mccalla, bradley, and mcmillan(in the 4x100) and Jhase mcmillan has an interview after jumping 21'+ as a freshman. there is no excuse. if it were me, i saw those times i'm calling the coach about them, in that conversation it will come out that their parents are alumni...case closed i'm on that kid.

my question is mostly rhetorical....rice doesn't have a history of going after alumni kids, which i just don't get. you look at other schools and you see a history of them trying to get alumni kids....then there's us.
04-27-2021 09:34 AM
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RiceLad15 Offline
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RE: Rice Kids
(04-27-2021 09:34 AM)nightowl24 Wrote:  they know they exist, they just aren't recruiting them..which is mind boggling. I've talked to several club coaches and hs coaches and they have informed rice about these kids. hs coaches know that having a connection with a school impacts a kid going to a school or not, so they use that when talking to schools.

there really is no excuse for kids that are living in houston and surrounding areas. i get kids that live out of state, i mean it would hard to know about that easily. these kids are right here in houston, have had multiple articles written about them and are easily known.

wrap your head around this....tre mccalla has the FASTEST time in the nation(as a soph tre won JO's in the 100).....DJ bradley is top 6 in the state and the #1 soph in the 300H(i think 2-3wks in a row he was in tight race with Mccray from george ranch who has the fastest time in the nation)....there is NO WAY you are a collegiate track coach and you don't know these kids names, i know for a fact that milesplit has had videos of mccalla, bradley, and mcmillan(in the 4x100) and Jhase mcmillan has an interview after jumping 21'+ as a freshman. there is no excuse. if it were me, i saw those times i'm calling the coach about them, in that conversation it will come out that their parents are alumni...case closed i'm on that kid.

my question is mostly rhetorical....rice doesn't have a history of going after alumni kids, which i just don't get. you look at other schools and you see a history of them trying to get alumni kids....then there's us.

I was looking for a bit of insight into how Rice (or any school for that matter) would keep track of alumni children.

I have an idea of how that works for a star athlete (it's basically a nugget of extra information learned when looking to recruit), but how would targeting students with Rice parents actually work?

I think the rhetorical question is relevant about Rice not targeting students with familial ties to the school. I'm wondering if the biggest hurdle is how to do so effectively? Or is the biggest hurdle general apathy?
04-27-2021 11:46 AM
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RE: Rice Kids
(04-27-2021 11:46 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  I was looking for a bit of insight into how Rice (or any school for that matter) would keep track of alumni children.

I have an idea of how that works for a star athlete (it's basically a nugget of extra information learned when looking to recruit), but how would targeting students with Rice parents actually work?

I think the rhetorical question is relevant about Rice not targeting students with familial ties to the school. I'm wondering if the biggest hurdle is how to do so effectively? Or is the biggest hurdle general apathy?

Keeping track of alumni is easier at Rice than almost anywhere else. 1) we're smaller 2) we're academically elite.. so our grads tend towards 'bigger' things and a connection to the University. This should/could be an advantage. We're already sending out requests to their parents for money, how about we ask them to keep us posted on what's going on with their families like they do on the Rice Alumni bulletin that goes out?? We could have alumni reps for athletics by decade or something... I mean, what parent of an athlete doesn't want to brag about them? And then there's facebook and other social media. You could have learned of about a dozen top athlete children of alums just by following this site.

It's not hard... you just need to think outside the box.... and do things that work AT RICE, even if they might not work/be feasible at UT (or UTSA)
(This post was last modified: 04-27-2021 02:20 PM by Hambone10.)
04-27-2021 02:18 PM
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nightowl24 Offline
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RE: Rice Kids
(04-27-2021 02:18 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(04-27-2021 11:46 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  I was looking for a bit of insight into how Rice (or any school for that matter) would keep track of alumni children.

I have an idea of how that works for a star athlete (it's basically a nugget of extra information learned when looking to recruit), but how would targeting students with Rice parents actually work?

I think the rhetorical question is relevant about Rice not targeting students with familial ties to the school. I'm wondering if the biggest hurdle is how to do so effectively? Or is the biggest hurdle general apathy?

Keeping track of alumni is easier at Rice than almost anywhere else. 1) we're smaller 2) we're academically elite.. so our grads tend towards 'bigger' things and a connection to the University. This should/could be an advantage. We're already sending out requests to their parents for money, how about we ask them to keep us posted on what's going on with their families like they do on the Rice Alumni bulletin that goes out?? We could have alumni reps for athletics by decade or something... I mean, what parent of an athlete doesn't want to brag about them? And then there's facebook and other social media. You could have learned of about a dozen top athlete children of alums just by following this site.

It's not hard... you just need to think outside the box.... and do things that work AT RICE, even if they might not work/be feasible at UT (or UTSA)

Exactly. There's no way outstanding alumni's kids should go unnoticed and unrecruited by rice. It's way too easy to know about them. You just have to try. Like you said... they damn sure can find me at every place I've moved to(even when I haven't given them my new address) for get money from me.

Rice yall doing it all wrong.
04-27-2021 04:39 PM
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RE: Rice Kids
Men's track and field has 12.6 scholarships. It has to be the toughest Div. I sport by far for recruiting and scholarship management purposes, both in terms of the ratio of scholarships to team size (a typical squad is probably at least 40 guys) as well as the profound disparity in skill sets across a team. A football or baseball coach can move a kid to a new position (within reason) if he's not working out at his recruited position but a weights guy can't be turned into a sprinter/jumper or distance runner and vice versa. Coaches simply cannot recruit equally for every event, and the premium is on athletes who can be projected to score in multiple events. Some teams focus on sprinters/jumpers, others on field multi-eventers and middle distance, and there's other strategies as well. Remember that the 12.6 scholarships also cover cross country.

At least strictly in terms of T&F, if a school is not recruiting a particular kid -- even if he's a blue chipper -- it may just be "business, not personal." The kid's event(s) may not fit the type of squad the college coach is trying to build, and/or the coach may know that given how the rest of the scholarships have been allocated, he can't be competitive with how much he can offer versus what other programs are likely to offer.

Just general observations, no knowledge of the kids in question or our coaches' views on them.
04-27-2021 08:53 PM
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WRCisforgotten79 Offline
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RE: Rice Kids
(04-27-2021 08:53 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  Men's track and field has 12.6 scholarships. It has to be the toughest Div. I sport by far for recruiting and scholarship management purposes, both in terms of the ratio of scholarships to team size (a typical squad is probably at least 40 guys) as well as the profound disparity in skill sets across a team. A football or baseball coach can move a kid to a new position (within reason) if he's not working out at his recruited position but a weights guy can't be turned into a sprinter/jumper or distance runner and vice versa. Coaches simply cannot recruit equally for every event, and the premium is on athletes who can be projected to score in multiple events. Some teams focus on sprinters/jumpers, others on field multi-eventers and middle distance, and there's other strategies as well. Remember that the 12.6 scholarships also cover cross country.

At least strictly in terms of T&F, if a school is not recruiting a particular kid -- even if he's a blue chipper -- it may just be "business, not personal." The kid's event(s) may not fit the type of squad the college coach is trying to build, and/or the coach may know that given how the rest of the scholarships have been allocated, he can't be competitive with how much he can offer versus what other programs are likely to offer.

Just general observations, no knowledge of the kids in question or our coaches' views on them.

Agree with everything.
04-27-2021 09:23 PM
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RE: Rice Kids
(04-27-2021 09:23 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  
(04-27-2021 08:53 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  Men's track and field has 12.6 scholarships. It has to be the toughest Div. I sport by far for recruiting and scholarship management purposes, both in terms of the ratio of scholarships to team size (a typical squad is probably at least 40 guys) as well as the profound disparity in skill sets across a team. A football or baseball coach can move a kid to a new position (within reason) if he's not working out at his recruited position but a weights guy can't be turned into a sprinter/jumper or distance runner and vice versa. Coaches simply cannot recruit equally for every event, and the premium is on athletes who can be projected to score in multiple events. Some teams focus on sprinters/jumpers, others on field multi-eventers and middle distance, and there's other strategies as well. Remember that the 12.6 scholarships also cover cross country.

At least strictly in terms of T&F, if a school is not recruiting a particular kid -- even if he's a blue chipper -- it may just be "business, not personal." The kid's event(s) may not fit the type of squad the college coach is trying to build, and/or the coach may know that given how the rest of the scholarships have been allocated, he can't be competitive with how much he can offer versus what other programs are likely to offer.

Just general observations, no knowledge of the kids in question or our coaches' views on them.

Agree with everything.


Sure, but it leaves out so many things I hardly know where to start

1) Most of the kids mentioned are also potential football recruits. A number of our best male track sprinters have also been football players.

2) Recruiting to a place like Rice with a massive endowment for scholarships and focusing solely on 'athletic' scholarships is the sort of skillset that I'd think is vastly below our coaches. It is especially notable when you're speaking of the children of Rice graduates (thus likely solid students) AND speaking about having athletes who can score in multiple events to NOT think about having athletes who can play multiple sports and/or qualify for academic or need based scholarships. If we're not doing that (and I'm 100% confident we are) then we're not doing it right.

3) I am sick and tired of this 'it's business, not personal' excuse. It completely ignores what people are saying and is dismissive and insulting to their intelligence.

This isn't about recruiting 'this' kid or 'that' kid.... and CERTAINLY not about recruiting any specific athlete.... so the 'it's business' comment is so far off base... It's about the potential to recruit an OUTSTANDING athlete... One who might not otherwise come here but instead would go to a p5 school (I know that conference doesn't matter as much in track, but p5 schools generally have vastly more resources and it often shows)... SPECIFICALLY because of their familial connection.

If you disagree that this has any merit, that's fine. But you ALL need to lay off on this apparent myth that you have created that anyone is upset that their kid isn't being recruited. These kids are just EXAMPLES of opportunities that Rice has had (and mostly neglected) for decades. Sure, some of us look at a kid and see speed and skillsets that are ALREADY competitive and potentially superior to anything we yet have on campus and see potential, but its not OUR jobs to assemble a team. Arguing that NONE of these kids are worth a scholarship?? Much less a shot at a merit or needs scholarship?? That's just ridiculous.

Excuses, excuses, excuses. I'm sick of them.


ETA/Clarify that last statement...
Creating a network of former students that focuses on their kids athletics as a means of trying to recruit kids that we might not otherwise get and/or get PWOs and/or continue to improve the culture of athletics/academics integration at RIce is an idea... and a GOOD one... and one that CAN set us apart, at least initially, because of our size. If you disagree that this has any merit whatsoever, that's fine... but if you're just going to keep telling us why 'some new idea' will never work, then PLEASE stop making excuses for why we shouldn't be at the forefront of athletics/academics/generational integration as opposed to waiting for UT to do it first. WE are supposed to be 'the smart kids'.
(This post was last modified: 04-28-2021 09:52 AM by Hambone10.)
04-28-2021 09:24 AM
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mrbig Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Rice Kids
Ham - great post. The point I like that you touch on is this. nightowl24 and others aren't really complaining because their kids are missing out or because their family is missing out. The problem is that RICE is missing out! There is an opportunity to identify and recruit student-athletes that are more likely to choose Rice than another random student-athlete without the familial connection. These kids will be fine at another school. But Rice is sometimes going to be less successful because of this. They are frustrated because they love Rice and want to see Rice succeed and see ways that Rice can have more success.

And the "its just business" approach can be detrimental to Rice as well. If Rice isn't putting in some work with the children of alumni, they might be turning off the alumni and those alumni will be less involved in Rice moving forward. I saw this with a family of non-athlete alumni in New Orleans. Both parents Rice grads, both kids valedictorians in high school, neither kid got into Rice, both kids went to Northwestern, the parents give more to Northwestern than Rice now.
04-28-2021 10:02 AM
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WRCisforgotten79 Offline
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RE: Rice Kids
(04-28-2021 09:24 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Sure, but it leaves out so many things I hardly know where to start

1) Most of the kids mentioned are also potential football recruits. A number of our best male track sprinters have also been football players.

2) Recruiting to a place like Rice with a massive endowment for scholarships and focusing solely on 'athletic' scholarships is the sort of skillset that I'd think is vastly below our coaches. It is especially notable when you're speaking of the children of Rice graduates (thus likely solid students) AND speaking about having athletes who can score in multiple events to NOT think about having athletes who can play multiple sports and/or qualify for academic or need based scholarships. If we're not doing that (and I'm 100% confident we are) then we're not doing it right.

3) I am sick and tired of this 'it's business, not personal' excuse. It completely ignores what people are saying and is dismissive and insulting to their intelligence.

This isn't about recruiting 'this' kid or 'that' kid.... and CERTAINLY not about recruiting any specific athlete.... so the 'it's business' comment is so far off base... It's about the potential to recruit an OUTSTANDING athlete... One who might not otherwise come here but instead would go to a p5 school (I know that conference doesn't matter as much in track, but p5 schools generally have vastly more resources and it often shows)... SPECIFICALLY because of their familial connection.

If you disagree that this has any merit, that's fine. But you ALL need to lay off on this apparent myth that you have created that anyone is upset that their kid isn't being recruited. These kids are just EXAMPLES of opportunities that Rice has had (and mostly neglected) for decades. Sure, some of us look at a kid and see speed and skillsets that are ALREADY competitive and potentially superior to anything we yet have on campus and see potential, but its not OUR jobs to assemble a team. Arguing that NONE of these kids are worth a scholarship?? Much less a shot at a merit or needs scholarship?? That's just ridiculous.

Excuses, excuses, excuses. I'm sick of them.


ETA/Clarify that last statement...
Creating a network of former students that focuses on their kids athletics as a means of trying to recruit kids that we might not otherwise get and/or get PWOs and/or continue to improve the culture of athletics/academics integration at RIce is an idea... and a GOOD one... and one that CAN set us apart, at least initially, because of our size. If you disagree that this has any merit whatsoever, that's fine... but if you're just going to keep telling us why 'some new idea' will never work, then PLEASE stop making excuses for why we shouldn't be at the forefront of athletics/academics/generational integration as opposed to waiting for UT to do it first. WE are supposed to be 'the smart kids'.

Addressing your points:

(1) Football coaches at Rice (and at most places) are historically unwilling and even hostile to the idea that one or more of their players might also compete in track and field. It has happened over and over again at Rice. It is a classic "bait and switch" when the football coach, in the recruiting process says "sure, you can compete in both sports. No problem."

Then, reality hits. Indoor track and field? "No - you need to do the weight program with our 'strength coach'"

Outdoor track and field? "No. Our spring football game is too important."

That is what happens EVERY TIME. So, please spare me the multi-sport nonsense. Football coaches and their idiotic "strength and conditioning" coaches just want control. They don't want to face the reality that track and field coaches can make their athletes faster and stronger.

(2) and (3) - I will have to DM you because you have no clue about the reality of sports at Rice that are not "head count" sports.
04-28-2021 10:05 AM
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RiceLad15 Offline
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RE: Rice Kids
(04-28-2021 10:02 AM)mrbig Wrote:  Ham - great post. The point I like that you touch on is this. nightowl24 and others aren't really complaining because their kids are missing out or because their family is missing out. The problem is that RICE is missing out! There is an opportunity to identify and recruit student-athletes that are more likely to choose Rice than another random student-athlete without the familial connection. These kids will be fine at another school. But Rice is sometimes going to be less successful because of this. They are frustrated because they love Rice and want to see Rice succeed and see ways that Rice can have more success.

And the "its just business" approach can be detrimental to Rice as well. If Rice isn't putting in some work with the children of alumni, they might be turning off the alumni and those alumni will be less involved in Rice moving forward. I saw this with a family of non-athlete alumni in New Orleans. Both parents Rice grads, both kids valedictorians in high school, neither kid got into Rice, both kids went to Northwestern, the parents give more to Northwestern than Rice now.

To be fair, I think there are two conversations going on - a discussion about how things are actually happening in the real world and the hurdles to Rice focusing on Rice kids, and a discussion about how Rice could adjust its strategy to target Rice kids, bu without respect to any hurdles/resource limitations.

They’re related, for sure, but it’s hard to have a discussion about either, when the response to the former uses the latter, and vice versa.

I doubt anyone disagrees with the idea that Rice could benefit from targeting student athletes with Rice connections/ties. But there’s a difference in only looking at the surface of how Rice could leverage those connections, and discussing why Rice might not be leveraging those connections.

For example, nightowl mentioned how Rice does a good job of keeping track of their alumni and where they live. Does Rice do the same with children of alumni? If they don’t, is there some reason they do not track it that we’re collectively unaware of? And does the athletic department currently have this information shared with them, or do their own tracking?
04-28-2021 10:13 AM
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