Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Rice Kids
Author Message
Bookmark and Share
Hambone10 Offline
Hooter
*

Posts: 35,902
Joined: Nov 2005
Reputation: 983
I Root For: My Kids
Location: Right Down th Middle

New Orleans BowlDonatorsThe Parliament Awards
Post: #41
RE: Rice Kids
(04-28-2021 08:25 PM)grOWLer Wrote:  Why not just send a message to the appropriate coach and say, "So-and-so at such-and-such high school ran a 10.3 100 meters last week at the District Meet. He/she is a junior/senior. You may not be aware of this, but his father/mother is a Rice graduate and scholar/athlete."

It may not get a response, but Rice coaches are busy and may not know that some athlete's father/mother attended Rice or was a scholar/athlete. The father/mother may have graduated before the coach came to the school and/or the coach may not recognize the family relationship.

If we do this, we may actually be solving the problem instead of griping about it.

Really? This is what you've gotten from this?? I see people trying to solve the problem, getting griped at by people who think this is the best we can do/should expect.

Let me give a recap...

We have an alumni parent(s) of a recruitable athlete who ALSO was a high school coach who had sent us a few athletes... and he has reached out to those coaches to TELL them the sort of things you mention here, and they've gotten NO response..... Not a, HEY former player.. great to hear from you.. we'd love to see you at a practice... but literally dead silence.

It has been suggested that there may be 'rules' around this. I think it clear that rules don't stop someone on the staff (even if not a coach) from being courteous, perhaps even noting the rule... but even so....

This was never about that... and anyone paying attention would know that, because its been said a dozen times. What this was about was missing a connection. A half dozen or so examples of kids who are the children of alumni who are CURRENTLY being 'highly competitive' in at least two sports... and suggestions about 'how to make sure we are connecting with kids like these' have been put forward.

The only GRIPING from 'this' side has been to state the very clear fact that we are missing an opportunity. That we have a chance to finally take ADVANTAGE of our small size.. AND ALSO the sense of 'brotherhood' that frequently comes from a connection to other athletes, and a distancing (that seems to be INCREASING) from SOME students on our campus.

Rice does a great job of keeping track of people who might be donors to the program. Rice does a poor job of keeping track of people who might be highly influential in directing kids who might help a coach extend his scholarship numbers by walking on... or in a BEST case, that it might help a coach get a recruit that he otherwise would have no shot to get. Implicit in that is the simple fact that even if none of these kids are even as good as those kids already on our roster who don't frequently see the field... They may be FRIENDS with kids who could be, who would see the closer connections that Rice players have versus other schools... IF we actually had that. In this specific example, I know that ONE parent is a teacher... who has influence over kids every day. I don't know what the other parent does, but I think the odds are pretty good that a) their kids are decent students and b) that based on what teachers earn, they may benefit from 'The Rice Investment'... and because they CHOSE to be teachers, they embody the very sense of 'paying it forward' that we are talking about.

And are those ideas met with the sort of acceptance you seem to imply would be appropriate here?

No.

Instead it is met with 'maybe your kid just isn't good enough' which not only is dismissive, but completely misses the point... and 'the coaches are too busy to be polite'... ignoring that it doesn't have to be a coach to do most of this. It COULD be the R Association doing most of the work.... or even a group of invested alumni... but it DOES require SOME buy-in by coaches, otherwise they defeat the purpose. There may (likely are) other institutional barriers that need to be worked on that the coaches may need help with.... from people like those on this forum.

and now a more direct 'quit complaining and just do a few of the things you've already done'??

I'm a big believer in team building. I don't expect nor even require that my 'leader' be competent in every area over which he has control. I expect and require that he be conversant enough in those areas to know where his personal deficiencies are, and to bring people in who HAVE those skills.

If a coach buys into this idea but doesn't have the time himself, I TOTALLY get and respect that. Someone else needs to bring these (essentially free) resources to him. If a coach doesn't buy into these ideas, that's a different story.

I mean seriously... at its core, what we're talking about is creating lifelong and multi-generational connections to people who proudly represented Rice... quite literally living and wearing that brand for 4+ years.... almost all of whom were specific beneficiaries of the endowment... for the benefit of the University, as well as our alumni. That is at its core, the MISSION of alumni relations and one of the purposes of HOSTING athletic events.

Griping? Not remotely. AT WORST what you're seeing is that some of us are more tired than others at beating their heads against a brick wall.
04-29-2021 09:39 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Tomball Owl Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,921
Joined: Oct 2005
Reputation: 58
I Root For: Rice Owls
Location: Comal County
Post: #42
RE: Rice Kids
(04-29-2021 09:39 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 08:25 PM)grOWLer Wrote:  Why not just send a message to the appropriate coach and say, "So-and-so at such-and-such high school ran a 10.3 100 meters last week at the District Meet. He/she is a junior/senior. You may not be aware of this, but his father/mother is a Rice graduate and scholar/athlete."

It may not get a response, but Rice coaches are busy and may not know that some athlete's father/mother attended Rice or was a scholar/athlete. The father/mother may have graduated before the coach came to the school and/or the coach may not recognize the family relationship.

If we do this, we may actually be solving the problem instead of griping about it.

Really? This is what you've gotten from this?? I see people trying to solve the problem, getting griped at by people who think this is the best we can do/should expect.

Let me give a recap...

We have an alumni parent(s) of a recruitable athlete who ALSO was a high school coach who had sent us a few athletes... and he has reached out to those coaches to TELL them the sort of things you mention here, and they've gotten NO response..... Not a, HEY former player.. great to hear from you.. we'd love to see you at a practice... but literally dead silence.

It has been suggested that there may be 'rules' around this. I think it clear that rules don't stop someone on the staff (even if not a coach) from being courteous, perhaps even noting the rule... but even so....

This was never about that... and anyone paying attention would know that, because its been said a dozen times. What this was about was missing a connection. A half dozen or so examples of kids who are the children of alumni who are CURRENTLY being 'highly competitive' in at least two sports... and suggestions about 'how to make sure we are connecting with kids like these' have been put forward.

The only GRIPING from 'this' side has been to state the very clear fact that we are missing an opportunity. That we have a chance to finally take ADVANTAGE of our small size.. AND ALSO the sense of 'brotherhood' that frequently comes from a connection to other athletes, and a distancing (that seems to be INCREASING) from SOME students on our campus.

Rice does a great job of keeping track of people who might be donors to the program. Rice does a poor job of keeping track of people who might be highly influential in directing kids who might help a coach extend his scholarship numbers by walking on... or in a BEST case, that it might help a coach get a recruit that he otherwise would have no shot to get. Implicit in that is the simple fact that even if none of these kids are even as good as those kids already on our roster who don't frequently see the field... They may be FRIENDS with kids who could be, who would see the closer connections that Rice players have versus other schools... IF we actually had that. In this specific example, I know that ONE parent is a teacher... who has influence over kids every day. I don't know what the other parent does, but I think the odds are pretty good that a) their kids are decent students and b) that based on what teachers earn, they may benefit from 'The Rice Investment'... and because they CHOSE to be teachers, they embody the very sense of 'paying it forward' that we are talking about.

And are those ideas met with the sort of acceptance you seem to imply would be appropriate here?

No.

Instead it is met with 'maybe your kid just isn't good enough' which not only is dismissive, but completely misses the point... and 'the coaches are too busy to be polite'... ignoring that it doesn't have to be a coach to do most of this. It COULD be the R Association doing most of the work.... or even a group of invested alumni... but it DOES require SOME buy-in by coaches, otherwise they defeat the purpose. There may (likely are) other institutional barriers that need to be worked on that the coaches may need help with.... from people like those on this forum.

and now a more direct 'quit complaining and just do a few of the things you've already done'??

I'm a big believer in team building. I don't expect nor even require that my 'leader' be competent in every area over which he has control. I expect and require that he be conversant enough in those areas to know where his personal deficiencies are, and to bring people in who HAVE those skills.

If a coach buys into this idea but doesn't have the time himself, I TOTALLY get and respect that. Someone else needs to bring these (essentially free) resources to him. If a coach doesn't buy into these ideas, that's a different story.

I mean seriously... at its core, what we're talking about is creating lifelong and multi-generational connections to people who proudly represented Rice... quite literally living and wearing that brand for 4+ years.... almost all of whom were specific beneficiaries of the endowment... for the benefit of the University, as well as our alumni. That is at its core, the MISSION of alumni relations and one of the purposes of HOSTING athletic events.

Griping? Not remotely. AT WORST what you're seeing is that some of us are more tired than others at beating their heads against a brick wall.

+1. Well said!
04-29-2021 09:54 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
OptimisticOwl Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 51,011
Joined: Apr 2005
Reputation: 786
I Root For: Rice
Location: DFW Metroplex

The Parliament AwardsNew Orleans BowlFootball GeniusCrappiesDonatorsDonators
Post: #43
RE: Rice Kids
(04-29-2021 09:39 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Rice does a great job of keeping track of people who might be donors to the program. Rice does a poor job of keeping track of people who might be highly influential in directing kids who might help a coach extend his scholarship numbers by walking on... or in a BEST case, that it might help a coach get a recruit that he otherwise would have no shot to get.

Gonna nit-pick you a little here.

Keeping track of donors is a University job. I would not expect the Athletic Department to do this for them.

Keeping track of possible athletic recruits with Rice ties is an Athletic Department concern.

Responding to notifications about possible recruits is just common courtesy.

My limited experience in this area is decades old, I cannot even tell you who was HC, but I called the athletic department twice about local kids. Both times I got a response from an assistant coach, both responses negative as to whether we want the kid. But I did get a response. I think a simple acknowledgement that they are aware of Kid X or Kid Y is called for. A thank you note, at least.

Now, I think I have nothing more to contribute to this discussion. Good luck to NightOwl and his kids, I hope to see the younger Emmanuel at Rice, I hope to se the younger and older RU at Rice, but it is beyond my power to make this happen.
04-29-2021 10:12 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Owl 69/70/75 Online
Just an old rugby coach
*

Posts: 71,443
Joined: Sep 2005
Reputation: 2232
I Root For: RiceBathChelsea
Location: Montgomery, TX

DonatorsNew Orleans Bowl
Post: #44
RE: Rice Kids
The only time I ever called a Rice coach about a possible recruit was Xavier Webb, not long after I moved to Montgomery. He ended up at Rice, but I have no idea whether my call made any difference at all.

Of course, I felt that Bailiff played him out of position. He was an absolutely amazing HS quarterback, against what was then 3-A competition (even good 3-A competition, like Brenham) he looked like Vince Young did against Rice, a man among boys. But he didn't play defense, and some of his HS coaches have told me that he was not particularly good on that side of the ball. Given that we had absolutely horrible QB problems for most of his time at Rice, I think he may very well have been the best QB on the team and we never played him there. I do remember one instance where he had an interception, and his postgame quote was to the effect of, "It was good to have the ball in my hands again."
(This post was last modified: 04-29-2021 11:24 AM by Owl 69/70/75.)
04-29-2021 11:17 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Hambone10 Offline
Hooter
*

Posts: 35,902
Joined: Nov 2005
Reputation: 983
I Root For: My Kids
Location: Right Down th Middle

New Orleans BowlDonatorsThe Parliament Awards
Post: #45
RE: Rice Kids
(04-29-2021 10:12 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(04-29-2021 09:39 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Rice does a great job of keeping track of people who might be donors to the program. Rice does a poor job of keeping track of people who might be highly influential in directing kids who might help a coach extend his scholarship numbers by walking on... or in a BEST case, that it might help a coach get a recruit that he otherwise would have no shot to get.

Gonna nit-pick you a little here.

Keeping track of donors is a University job. I would not expect the Athletic Department to do this for them.

Keeping track of possible athletic recruits with Rice ties is an Athletic Department concern.

Agreed, hence my add on later...
Quote:. ignoring that it doesn't have to be a coach to do most of this. It COULD be the R Association doing most of the work.... or even a group of invested alumni... but it DOES require SOME buy-in by coaches, otherwise they defeat the purpose. There may (likely are) other institutional barriers that need to be worked on that the coaches may need help with.... from people like those on this forum.

I didn't say it as clearly as you did, but I did say it.

I can't tell you what the specific barriers are.... but I CAN tell you that it isn't happening.... and that the coaches would play a key part in it. I mean, if they don't want it to happen, it wouldn't matter WHAT the University or AD did. As an example, if we set up a women's soccer or baseball tail gate and encouraged former players to bring their kids... and asked the track and football coaches to encourage a few current players and/or coaches if allowed to drop in and say hi, and they refused to attend or let their players attend, it would be a problem. I'd also ask a few board members and even some key admissions people or professors to attend and meet some of these families... even if for just a few minutes. I'd ESPECIALLY make sure to include some of our better known alums who may have played in the pros or were all conference and then became doctors or what have you... MODELING the Rice experience and the brother/sisterhood that can exist at Rice more than at some other places.

We've all seen bits and pieces of it... what feel like half-hearted (and almost never funded) efforts to do this so that people can say 'we've tried that'... but have we ever really seen real effort put into it?
04-29-2021 01:53 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
OptimisticOwl Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 51,011
Joined: Apr 2005
Reputation: 786
I Root For: Rice
Location: DFW Metroplex

The Parliament AwardsNew Orleans BowlFootball GeniusCrappiesDonatorsDonators
Post: #46
RE: Rice Kids
(04-29-2021 01:53 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(04-29-2021 10:12 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(04-29-2021 09:39 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Rice does a great job of keeping track of people who might be donors to the program. Rice does a poor job of keeping track of people who might be highly influential in directing kids who might help a coach extend his scholarship numbers by walking on... or in a BEST case, that it might help a coach get a recruit that he otherwise would have no shot to get.

Gonna nit-pick you a little here.

Keeping track of donors is a University job. I would not expect the Athletic Department to do this for them.

Keeping track of possible athletic recruits with Rice ties is an Athletic Department concern.

Agreed, hence my add on later...
Quote:. ignoring that it doesn't have to be a coach to do most of this. It COULD be the R Association doing most of the work.... or even a group of invested alumni... but it DOES require SOME buy-in by coaches, otherwise they defeat the purpose. There may (likely are) other institutional barriers that need to be worked on that the coaches may need help with.... from people like those on this forum.

I didn't say it as clearly as you did, but I did say it.

I can't tell you what the specific barriers are.... but I CAN tell you that it isn't happening.... and that the coaches would play a key part in it. I mean, if they don't want it to happen, it wouldn't matter WHAT the University or AD did. As an example, if we set up a women's soccer or baseball tail gate and encouraged former players to bring their kids... and asked the track and football coaches to encourage a few current players and/or coaches if allowed to drop in and say hi, and they refused to attend or let their players attend, it would be a problem. I'd also ask a few board members and even some key admissions people or professors to attend and meet some of these families... even if for just a few minutes. I'd ESPECIALLY make sure to include some of our better known alums who may have played in the pros or were all conference and then became doctors or what have you... MODELING the Rice experience and the brother/sisterhood that can exist at Rice more than at some other places.

We've all seen bits and pieces of it... what feel like half-hearted (and almost never funded) efforts to do this so that people can say 'we've tried that'... but have we ever really seen real effort put into it?

This does not seem to be a time-consuming, full time endeavor, to keep track of the kids of certain alumni. But your point about the coaches is major, so let's get the AD to add these duties to some staffer or even an intern - but require the coaches to participate. Then when a kid of an athletic alumnus signs with someone else, they need to show they made an effort or why they didn't.

I don't care how it is done as long as it is done. And if it results in only one recruit every 3-5 years, that is enough return to make it worthwhile.
(This post was last modified: 04-29-2021 03:52 PM by OptimisticOwl.)
04-29-2021 03:50 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Hambone10 Offline
Hooter
*

Posts: 35,902
Joined: Nov 2005
Reputation: 983
I Root For: My Kids
Location: Right Down th Middle

New Orleans BowlDonatorsThe Parliament Awards
Post: #47
RE: Rice Kids
(04-29-2021 03:50 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  This does not seem to be a time-consuming, full time endeavor, to keep track of the kids of certain alumni. But your point about the coaches is major, so let's get the AD to add these duties to some staffer or even an intern - but require the coaches to participate. Then when a kid of an athletic alumnus signs with someone else, they need to show they made an effort or why they didn't.

I don't care how it is done as long as it is done. And if it results in only one recruit every 3-5 years, that is enough return to make it worthwhile.

It would seem that especially the connection of football to track could be a great one. Track doesn't have to spend a scholarship on a sprinter or a 'weights' guy and football gets a guy who might be redshirting anyway, can work on his explosiveness and maybe wants to go to a school that lets him do both rather than insists he do just one. I'd think that especially coming from g5 where the 'path to the pros' is even less assured than at p5, this could get us a few guys we might not otherwise get.

I suspect there are a decent number of our football athletes who would also qualify for merit and/or need based aid... so if they ultimately want to focus on track and/or aren't making it in football, we can still keep them in sports or in school without occupying a football scholarship (if they're not making it)
04-30-2021 01:32 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
WRCisforgotten79 Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,868
Joined: May 2007
Reputation: 53
I Root For: Rice
Location: Houston
Post: #48
RE: Rice Kids
(04-30-2021 01:32 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(04-29-2021 03:50 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  This does not seem to be a time-consuming, full time endeavor, to keep track of the kids of certain alumni. But your point about the coaches is major, so let's get the AD to add these duties to some staffer or even an intern - but require the coaches to participate. Then when a kid of an athletic alumnus signs with someone else, they need to show they made an effort or why they didn't.

I don't care how it is done as long as it is done. And if it results in only one recruit every 3-5 years, that is enough return to make it worthwhile.

It would seem that especially the connection of football to track could be a great one. Track doesn't have to spend a scholarship on a sprinter or a 'weights' guy and football gets a guy who might be redshirting anyway, can work on his explosiveness and maybe wants to go to a school that lets him do both rather than insists he do just one. I'd think that especially coming from g5 where the 'path to the pros' is even less assured than at p5, this could get us a few guys we might not otherwise get.

I suspect there are a decent number of our football athletes who would also qualify for merit and/or need based aid... so if they ultimately want to focus on track and/or aren't making it in football, we can still keep them in sports or in school without occupying a football scholarship (if they're not making it)

Again - find a football coach who allows his players to compete in track and field without penalizing them. Even more so, find a football player who is willing to put in the hard work needed to get into track shape. It just does not happen, except in very rare situations.
04-30-2021 04:25 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ExcitedOwl18 Online
Heisman
*

Posts: 6,444
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 62
I Root For: Rice
Location: New York
Post: #49
RE: Rice Kids
(04-30-2021 04:25 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  
(04-30-2021 01:32 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(04-29-2021 03:50 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  This does not seem to be a time-consuming, full time endeavor, to keep track of the kids of certain alumni. But your point about the coaches is major, so let's get the AD to add these duties to some staffer or even an intern - but require the coaches to participate. Then when a kid of an athletic alumnus signs with someone else, they need to show they made an effort or why they didn't.

I don't care how it is done as long as it is done. And if it results in only one recruit every 3-5 years, that is enough return to make it worthwhile.

It would seem that especially the connection of football to track could be a great one. Track doesn't have to spend a scholarship on a sprinter or a 'weights' guy and football gets a guy who might be redshirting anyway, can work on his explosiveness and maybe wants to go to a school that lets him do both rather than insists he do just one. I'd think that especially coming from g5 where the 'path to the pros' is even less assured than at p5, this could get us a few guys we might not otherwise get.

I suspect there are a decent number of our football athletes who would also qualify for merit and/or need based aid... so if they ultimately want to focus on track and/or aren't making it in football, we can still keep them in sports or in school without occupying a football scholarship (if they're not making it)

Again - find a football coach who allows his players to compete in track and field without penalizing them. Even more so, find a football player who is willing to put in the hard work needed to get into track shape. It just does not happen, except in very rare situations.

Marquise Goodwin seemed to manage it but I can't think of many/any others.
04-30-2021 04:31 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Hambone10 Offline
Hooter
*

Posts: 35,902
Joined: Nov 2005
Reputation: 983
I Root For: My Kids
Location: Right Down th Middle

New Orleans BowlDonatorsThe Parliament Awards
Post: #50
RE: Rice Kids
(04-30-2021 04:25 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  Again - find a football coach who allows his players to compete in track and field without penalizing them. Even more so, find a football player who is willing to put in the hard work needed to get into track shape. It just does not happen, except in very rare situations.

Well, Elliston Stinson and Vince Courville did when I was there. Quite effectively I might add. I believe Elliston still holds the school record in the 100m... and I just pulled up a random Rice track athlete who competed from 2011-2014... and his 'best' was right at a second slower. That's HUGE for 100m

When we were in school, it was de rigueur for football stars at skill positions to also run track. While you may be saying 'that just doesn't happen any more', I'm suggesting that we look for ways to make it worth their while.

How about instead of looking at in the myopic (to the coaches) way implied here where each coach has their own, inconsistent agenda, we look at it as I described... where the track coach isn't looking to take a 160lb freshman football player who ran a 10.4 in high school into a 145 lb freshman track athlete who runs a 10.3... while the football coach is looking to turn him into a 180lb freshman football player who STILL runs a 10.4, and is even faster now in the first 20 yards... and the track coach is happy to get 5 points in the 100 for coming in 4th (or whatever it is) as opposed to getting zero, spending a scholarship he doesn't have or having his 400 guy run an extra race??

Said differently, don't treat them like 100m specialists where you are trying to maximize their potential. Treat them like guys who are helping the team score points and win meets, while also adding value to their football skills off the LOS.

For the football coach, he may get a kid to come that he might not otherwise get... and he may keep the speed up/increase the speed of one of his players... AND as I said, it creates a situation where through some combination of the Rice Investment, a partial track scholarship and other aid potential, the football coach may be able to get a kid who is fast but just isn't panning out as a player off his scholarship list and offer it to 'the next' guy.

I guess WRC, I'm just sick of the 'can't, won't, don't' attitude that we seem to have on here and is accepted within athletics. Where the easy answer is to do what everyone else does and somehow MAGICALLY just end up being better than everyone else at it. For non-revs, we have a bit of an advantage vs CUSA in the value of our scholarship... but vs p5?? Most p5 schools are academically solid... and a few are exceptional.

Change the narrative. If the coach doesn't like it, that's fine... but if he isn't winning and may not be here as long as the student, then why are we letting him dictate so much of what these kids do?

While I wouldn't do this because of the risk of injury... I think you could take a few football players off the field and have then run the 100m (or 60m) and score points without having them train much at all. You're talking 'down' about a kid who ran a 'wind-aided' 10.3 when we have kids on the track team RIGHT NOW running sprints for us WHO HAVEN'T BROKEN 11 SECONDS.
04-30-2021 05:23 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Owl 69/70/75 Online
Just an old rugby coach
*

Posts: 71,443
Joined: Sep 2005
Reputation: 2232
I Root For: RiceBathChelsea
Location: Montgomery, TX

DonatorsNew Orleans Bowl
Post: #51
RE: Rice Kids
(04-30-2021 04:25 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  Again - find a football coach who allows his players to compete in track and field without penalizing them. Even more so, find a football player who is willing to put in the hard work needed to get into track shape. It just does not happen, except in very rare situations.

Jess did, and there were considerable advantages for both sides.
04-30-2021 05:26 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
WRCisforgotten79 Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,868
Joined: May 2007
Reputation: 53
I Root For: Rice
Location: Houston
Post: #52
RE: Rice Kids
(04-30-2021 05:26 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(04-30-2021 04:25 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  Again - find a football coach who allows his players to compete in track and field without penalizing them. Even more so, find a football player who is willing to put in the hard work needed to get into track shape. It just does not happen, except in very rare situations.

Jess did, and there were considerable advantages for both sides.

50+ years ago.
04-30-2021 06:27 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Hambone10 Offline
Hooter
*

Posts: 35,902
Joined: Nov 2005
Reputation: 983
I Root For: My Kids
Location: Right Down th Middle

New Orleans BowlDonatorsThe Parliament Awards
Post: #53
RE: Rice Kids
I think you're arguing about pennies and missing the dollars, WRC.

Football season only ended a bit ago and in their first meet of this season, EVERY SINGLE ONE of the kids we've been talking about ran a faster time than any sprinter on the Rice campus that I can find. Please read that again.

The ones they're running now beat SOME of them by a full second. That's not a knock on our guys; Most of them seem to be pole vaulters.

You argue in one breath that a track coach only has 12.6 scholarships and needs to maximize his points, and then when an offer of 'help' is made, you act as if these kids need to compete for conference records (be in track shape) in order for you to even consider letting them on your track?? If they can't 'commit fully' to track, you don't want them?? We're letting guys running 11.4 (who don't spend all their time working on sprints themselves, I might add) represent us... but we wouldn't let a guy who runs a 10.7 (or 10.3) if he couldn't be at every practice? Be serious. These guys could put on turf shoes and start from a WR stance and beat anyone we have on the track right now.

You're damn right that a football coach isn't going to let player he's invested a scholarship in that he's trying to beef up, lose weight... or miss games... or miss a LOT of practices, certainly not 'in season' to get into 'track shape'... NOR would they let their guys go out there and be neglected in terms of stretching and support... but I'm not suggesting that. I'm suggesting that football players are running sprints as we speak. I'm suggesting that having a WR work on his 'start' as a track athlete, or perhaps even better as a relay guy could be a benefit to the football coach as a WR. Even back in the day, this was the case. Football players were 40 pounds heavier than the track guys... but they STILL scored points.

But what if the kid is buried on his depth chart... because apparently football players who can run < 11.0 are pretty common, but Rice track athletes who can seem pretty rare.

iirc, the Rice record in the 100m is 10.16 set by Elliston Stinson (football player) and tied by Kareem Streete-Thompson (Olympian)... and we're arguing about the wind for a 10.3 for a high school kid?? Now let's really make it interesting.... though the 'fact book' isn't the same format every year, nor is it available for every year....

2019, no score reported in the 100m at the conference meet. My guess is no qualifying time??
2018, same story
2014 Scott Filip (Decathlete) ran a 10.82 The next fastest was 11.17
2010 The best was 10.81, then 10.98, 11.03 and 11.27

At the 2019 conference FINALS, the WINNING time was 10.27... winning by almost 2 tenths... and 10.7 took 8th.

Should we REALLY be arguing about whether a 10.3 was 'wind aided' or not?? 10.45 took 2nd at the CUSA finals in 2019.

Now, if you're telling me that the track coach has gone to the football coach and asked him to simply let a player or two... not even necessarily the 'stars', come run in a meet with minimal time away from practice and they were told 'no'?? Then we need to go talk to the football coach about how he's missing an opportunity... WHICH IS PRECISELY WHAT THIS CONVERSATION YOU"VE BEEN FIGHTING HAS BEEN ALL ABOUT !!!!!!
(This post was last modified: 05-01-2021 12:01 PM by Hambone10.)
05-01-2021 11:59 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
WRCisforgotten79 Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,868
Joined: May 2007
Reputation: 53
I Root For: Rice
Location: Houston
Post: #54
RE: Rice Kids
There's a zero percent chance that track and field ever would turn down someone who MIGHT help. Evan Marshman MIGHT help, but we won't know for sure until the season plays out. But he's competing.

So, it's not track and field that is refusing help.

You need to ask the football coaches and/or the athlete. You seem not to understand what I have written before, so perhaps if I put into all caps, that might help:

THE INDIVIDUAL FOOTBALL PLAYER MIGHT NOT HAVE ANY DESIRE TO COMPETE IN TRACK AND FIELD. Football takes up enormous time and energy in the fall semester. A student athlete might want to have the spring semester to recover physically and to focus more on academics.
05-01-2021 12:10 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Owl 69/70/75 Online
Just an old rugby coach
*

Posts: 71,443
Joined: Sep 2005
Reputation: 2232
I Root For: RiceBathChelsea
Location: Montgomery, TX

DonatorsNew Orleans Bowl
Post: #55
RE: Rice Kids
(05-01-2021 12:10 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  THE INDIVIDUAL FOOTBALL PLAYER MIGHT NOT HAVE ANY DESIRE TO COMPETE IN TRACK AND FIELD. Football takes up enormous time and energy in the fall semester. A student athlete might want to have the spring semester to recover physically and to focus more on academics.

There are situations where the individual football player's desire to compete in track and field (or baseball or basketball) is greatly and negatively affected by his being told by the football coaching staff that he will be penalized in football if he does so. I am not saying that is the case at Rice, as I honestly don't know.

I am aware of a situation in the late 1960s at Baylor where John Bridgers recruited Rusty Clark from Houston to play QB with a promise that he could also pitch on the baseball team. He chose to play baseball in the spring, and when he returned for two-a-day football practice in the fall, he was third string defensive end. He transferred to UH, didn't play a lot at QB because Yeoman went to the veer full time and he was a dropback passer (a better fit for Bridgers's offense at Baylor), but he did pitch on the baseball team, and IIRC he was drafted by both the NFL and MLB, and ended up playing football in Canada. Rusty was a great guy and a very popular HS athlete in Houston. After that Houston HS coaches pretty much steered players away from Baylor, and Bridgers was done at Baylor in a couple of years.

Jess recruited a lot of players with a promise to play multiple sports, and as far as I know he never pulled a Bridgers. Bo Hagan did, and a lot of people were angry about it. Long story short, I have wondered for some time if that isn't a niche that Rice coudl exploit. You'd have to have football coaches willing to let players miss spring football, but it would seem to be a way to get 1-3 recruits a year that would otherwise be going to P5 schools, and the one thing I learned in my brief coaching career is that there is no substitute for talent.
05-01-2021 02:22 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Fort Bend Owl Online
Legend
*

Posts: 25,960
Joined: Jun 2005
Reputation: 380
I Root For: An easy win
Location:

The Parliament Awards
Post: #56
RE: Rice Kids
BTW, according to the heat sheets for tonight's track meet at Texas A&M, football player Brad Rozner is competing in the high jump. Unlike Conrad and Marshman, Rozner still has football eligibility (actually Conrad and Marshman could return, but I think both are done in football now).
05-01-2021 02:50 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
75src Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,513
Joined: Mar 2009
Reputation: 23
I Root For: Rice
Location:
Post: #57
RE: Rice Kids
Multi sport used to be more common than it is now. I remember Class of 1974 Bruce Henley pitching for the baseball team as well as being a safety for the football team. Chuck Hodge joined the baseball team after he was finished with track. King Hill Class of 1958 played golf and basketball as well as QB.
05-01-2021 04:18 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
nightowl24 Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,470
Joined: Jul 2005
Reputation: 51
I Root For:
Location:

New Orleans Bowl
Post: #58
RE: Rice Kids
i've rattled off names of guys that played football and ran track while i was there and after. even right now there are guys across the country that are doing both. if they so choose to. you are just wrong and are doing everything you can to dig your heels into the idea that "it doesn't happen" and it just flat out does. am i saying the whole skill group is running? no i am not. what i'm saying is there are select few kids that are doing both and rice could take advantage of those kids that are multi-sport athletes and want to compete in two sports in college as well.

better yet a lot of the guys that are done playing and are preparing for nfl scouts go to the track coaches for help with their start and running the 40(i know i did and two other guys did also with me)....happens all across the country. no not the big time 1st rounders but guys like our rice guys...yes it does...ROUTINELY. as Hambone continues to say quit making excuses as to why it can't won't or doesn't happen and lets work on showing how it will and does happen.

with regard to rice we haven't recruited any REAL speed in years. we're slow out there, which is why in the secondary we have trouble covering guys. that's why we don't have any big plays from the wr spot....lack of speed. so yes right now most of these guys probably wouldn't run track, hell most of them didn't run track in high school to a high level. when i was there we had a host of football guys that were either state champs, went to state, or had some pretty impressive times on the track. we also won a good amount of games because of that. if you look at other programs their skill guys are doing the same and the ones who don't typically don't pan out in college. i follow it because my sons are in the middle of all of this right now.

furthermore, it isn't even about that more than anything, it is about missed opportunities. simple as that. we are missing opportunities and schools like rice can't afford that. all the kids i've mentioned RIGHT NOW would be competitive at rice, so to not even reach out is flat out dumb. now warren is a distance guy, so he may not want to have any sprinters. ok that is a different animal, but how much success is he having with that at this time? not a whole lot cause its not like he's out here getting the best in the nation. so its safe to say that he may need to add a little diversity to his team in order to compete better. look at north carolina a&t, an hbcu that if we were to go head to head with them at a track meet they would smoke us. not just in sprints but point totals we wouldn't stand a chance against them. all i'm hearing from you is excuses and complacency, i'm not for it. we can do better we just choose to continue to keep ourselves where we are because we won't try anything new. it's easier to make the excuse "it's always been like this" and keep trucking than to flip things around and try something different. even if it fails you are showing that you are putting forth an effort to be better and do better.

rice has to stop making excuses. we don't make excuses in any other area of our school. we see the problem and we attack it and come up with ways to make it better. it may not always net the results we want but we at least put forth an effort. we aren't even putting forth an effort in this area, we are just accepting that we are missing out on kids that we have in-roads with. we just let it keep happening and shrug our shoulders and keep moving.

lastly i will repeat...my son has his school paid for at this point, so this has nothing to do with getting my son to rice. it has everything to do with my school that I played for, represented, and still represent not putting their best foot forward. we are half assing it with regard to recruiting and we are making excuses to why we aren't doing better. sorry that doesn't fly for me. i don't want to hear about recruiting budgets and all that other stuff cause teexting is free, twitter is free, ig is free, facebook is free. it literally cost zero dollars to follow a kid and reach out. if there was a better connection between the former athletes and the school then they wouldn't even have to "keep up" with these kids or "search" for them because they would already KNOW them. as is stated this is what is happening at other schools. they already know the highly competitive children of their former athletes. i wasn't allowed to half ass it while i was there so i expect my school to not half ass it now. flat out.....DO BETTER.
05-02-2021 11:57 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Tomball Owl Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,921
Joined: Oct 2005
Reputation: 58
I Root For: Rice Owls
Location: Comal County
Post: #59
RE: Rice Kids
(05-02-2021 11:57 AM)nightowl24 Wrote:  i've rattled off names of guys that played football and ran track while i was there and after. even right now there are guys across the country that are doing both. if they so choose to. you are just wrong and are doing everything you can to dig your heels into the idea that "it doesn't happen" and it just flat out does. am i saying the whole skill group is running? no i am not. what i'm saying is there are select few kids that are doing both and rice could take advantage of those kids that are multi-sport athletes and want to compete in two sports in college as well.

better yet a lot of the guys that are done playing and are preparing for nfl scouts go to the track coaches for help with their start and running the 40(i know i did and two other guys did also with me)....happens all across the country. no not the big time 1st rounders but guys like our rice guys...yes it does...ROUTINELY. as Hambone continues to say quit making excuses as to why it can't won't or doesn't happen and lets work on showing how it will and does happen.

with regard to rice we haven't recruited any REAL speed in years. we're slow out there, which is why in the secondary we have trouble covering guys. that's why we don't have any big plays from the wr spot....lack of speed. so yes right now most of these guys probably wouldn't run track, hell most of them didn't run track in high school to a high level. when i was there we had a host of football guys that were either state champs, went to state, or had some pretty impressive times on the track. we also won a good amount of games because of that. if you look at other programs their skill guys are doing the same and the ones who don't typically don't pan out in college. i follow it because my sons are in the middle of all of this right now.

furthermore, it isn't even about that more than anything, it is about missed opportunities. simple as that. we are missing opportunities and schools like rice can't afford that. all the kids i've mentioned RIGHT NOW would be competitive at rice, so to not even reach out is flat out dumb. now warren is a distance guy, so he may not want to have any sprinters. ok that is a different animal, but how much success is he having with that at this time? not a whole lot cause its not like he's out here getting the best in the nation. so its safe to say that he may need to add a little diversity to his team in order to compete better. look at north carolina a&t, an hbcu that if we were to go head to head with them at a track meet they would smoke us. not just in sprints but point totals we wouldn't stand a chance against them. all i'm hearing from you is excuses and complacency, i'm not for it. we can do better we just choose to continue to keep ourselves where we are because we won't try anything new. it's easier to make the excuse "it's always been like this" and keep trucking than to flip things around and try something different. even if it fails you are showing that you are putting forth an effort to be better and do better.

rice has to stop making excuses. we don't make excuses in any other area of our school. we see the problem and we attack it and come up with ways to make it better. it may not always net the results we want but we at least put forth an effort. we aren't even putting forth an effort in this area, we are just accepting that we are missing out on kids that we have in-roads with. we just let it keep happening and shrug our shoulders and keep moving.

lastly i will repeat...my son has his school paid for at this point, so this has nothing to do with getting my son to rice. it has everything to do with my school that I played for, represented, and still represent not putting their best foot forward. we are half assing it with regard to recruiting and we are making excuses to why we aren't doing better. sorry that doesn't fly for me. i don't want to hear about recruiting budgets and all that other stuff cause teexting is free, twitter is free, ig is free, facebook is free. it literally cost zero dollars to follow a kid and reach out. if there was a better connection between the former athletes and the school then they wouldn't even have to "keep up" with these kids or "search" for them because they would already KNOW them. as is stated this is what is happening at other schools. they already know the highly competitive children of their former athletes. i wasn't allowed to half ass it while i was there so i expect my school to not half ass it now. flat out.....DO BETTER.

04-clap2 04-clap2 04-clap2

Well said!
05-02-2021 12:59 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Hambone10 Offline
Hooter
*

Posts: 35,902
Joined: Nov 2005
Reputation: 983
I Root For: My Kids
Location: Right Down th Middle

New Orleans BowlDonatorsThe Parliament Awards
Post: #60
RE: Rice Kids
(05-01-2021 12:10 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  THE INDIVIDUAL FOOTBALL PLAYER MIGHT NOT HAVE ANY DESIRE TO COMPETE IN TRACK AND FIELD. Football takes up enormous time and energy in the fall semester. A student athlete might want to have the spring semester to recover physically and to focus more on academics.

You're right, he might. That's the common thought.... but isn't it odd that here we have a number of kids ALL at one meet, not only doing just that in high school, but having a connection to Rice? That's a pretty rare commodity in and of itself... to have that many kids who are 'quite good' at both football AND track, AND are children of NOTABLE Rice athletes (as opposed to the even larger number of less known athletes??) Sure, Rice is harder than high school and the practices would be as well, but its not as if these kids are just sitting around when they're not in spring drills.

The entire discussion is about 'doing things differently'... and your entire premise seems to simply be 'NOBODY wants to run track AND play football' (despite evidence of 'just that' happening already). As I suggested, maybe if all they were expected to do was stay in football shape and work on their starts or the baton hand-off and show up at meets?? I strongly suspect that every single one of these kids would rather compete in track than run even MORE wind sprints on the turf.

Maybe THAT is why you don't understand what we're talking about?? Football is played every week and those guys want to go out and compete as often as possible. Track guys may have a different mentality, where you're more strategic about 'what you're working on' so that you can be at peak form in the NCAAs. Take advantage of the fact that you have some guys right now who would MUCH rather be competing than practicing.... and don't ask the football coach to have him miss football practice, just opportunities where most of what he'd be doing is working on getting off the ball, speed and conditioning.

I don't know if the footwork and explosiveness for discus or the shot would help a lineman, but I DO know that they've taken classes in wrestling, Krav Maga and even ballet to improve their hand and footwork. IIRC, Hershel Walker actually performed with the Dallas Ballet.

(05-02-2021 12:59 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  
(05-02-2021 11:57 AM)nightowl24 Wrote:  i've rattled off names of guys that played football and ran track while i was there and after. even right now there are guys across the country that are doing both. if they so choose to. you are just wrong and are doing everything you can to dig your heels into the idea that "it doesn't happen" and it just flat out does. am i saying the whole skill group is running? no i am not. what i'm saying is there are select few kids that are doing both and rice could take advantage of those kids that are multi-sport athletes and want to compete in two sports in college as well.

better yet a lot of the guys that are done playing and are preparing for nfl scouts go to the track coaches for help with their start and running the 40(i know i did and two other guys did also with me)....happens all across the country. no not the big time 1st rounders but guys like our rice guys...yes it does...ROUTINELY. as Hambone continues to say quit making excuses as to why it can't won't or doesn't happen and lets work on showing how it will and does happen.

with regard to rice we haven't recruited any REAL speed in years. we're slow out there, which is why in the secondary we have trouble covering guys. that's why we don't have any big plays from the wr spot....lack of speed. so yes right now most of these guys probably wouldn't run track, hell most of them didn't run track in high school to a high level. when i was there we had a host of football guys that were either state champs, went to state, or had some pretty impressive times on the track. we also won a good amount of games because of that. if you look at other programs their skill guys are doing the same and the ones who don't typically don't pan out in college. i follow it because my sons are in the middle of all of this right now.

furthermore, it isn't even about that more than anything, it is about missed opportunities. simple as that. we are missing opportunities and schools like rice can't afford that. all the kids i've mentioned RIGHT NOW would be competitive at rice, so to not even reach out is flat out dumb. now warren is a distance guy, so he may not want to have any sprinters. ok that is a different animal, but how much success is he having with that at this time? not a whole lot cause its not like he's out here getting the best in the nation. so its safe to say that he may need to add a little diversity to his team in order to compete better. look at north carolina a&t, an hbcu that if we were to go head to head with them at a track meet they would smoke us. not just in sprints but point totals we wouldn't stand a chance against them. all i'm hearing from you is excuses and complacency, i'm not for it. we can do better we just choose to continue to keep ourselves where we are because we won't try anything new. it's easier to make the excuse "it's always been like this" and keep trucking than to flip things around and try something different. even if it fails you are showing that you are putting forth an effort to be better and do better.

rice has to stop making excuses. we don't make excuses in any other area of our school. we see the problem and we attack it and come up with ways to make it better. it may not always net the results we want but we at least put forth an effort. we aren't even putting forth an effort in this area, we are just accepting that we are missing out on kids that we have in-roads with. we just let it keep happening and shrug our shoulders and keep moving.

lastly i will repeat...my son has his school paid for at this point, so this has nothing to do with getting my son to rice. it has everything to do with my school that I played for, represented, and still represent not putting their best foot forward. we are half assing it with regard to recruiting and we are making excuses to why we aren't doing better. sorry that doesn't fly for me. i don't want to hear about recruiting budgets and all that other stuff cause teexting is free, twitter is free, ig is free, facebook is free. it literally cost zero dollars to follow a kid and reach out. if there was a better connection between the former athletes and the school then they wouldn't even have to "keep up" with these kids or "search" for them because they would already KNOW them. as is stated this is what is happening at other schools. they already know the highly competitive children of their former athletes. i wasn't allowed to half ass it while i was there so i expect my school to not half ass it now. flat out.....DO BETTER.

04-clap2 04-clap2 04-clap2

Well said!

+1,000
(This post was last modified: 05-02-2021 01:26 PM by Hambone10.)
05-02-2021 01:19 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2021 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2021 MyBB Group.