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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Rice Kids
(04-28-2021 10:13 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  For example, nightowl mentioned how Rice does a good job of keeping track of their alumni and where they live. Does Rice do the same with children of alumni? If they don’t, is there some reason they do not track it that we’re collectively unaware of? And does the athletic department currently have this information shared with them, or do their own tracking?

I don't know how good a job they actually do. When I read the Classnotes, invariably there is a notice that some member of my class died three years ago. As for me, I am easy to keep up with - lived at the same address since 1972. Plus they have gotten my address and phone number from all the donations I have made and season tickets bought over the years.

I don't know why they would follow my kids or grandkids. They went to other schools, if they went at all. They have never made a contribution to Rice.

But tracking the athletic progress of the kids of former athletes sounds like a project for the Athletic Department. I think it would be a good project, but not a high priority one. Let's say Billy Football '18 and Molly Volleyball '19 have a kid this year. When should the recruiting coordinator check in to see if the kid is somebody we can/should recruit? age 14? 2035?

If the kids are brought to the attention of the appropriate team, presumably by parents, heck yeah, they should be followed up on. But tracking the kids of former athletes from birth seems a bit too much.

Just don't understand how the nuts and bolts of this would work.
04-28-2021 10:42 AM
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georgewebb Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Rice Kids
(04-28-2021 10:42 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I don't know how good a job they actually do. When I read the Classnotes, invariably there is a notice that some member of my class died three years ago.

Classnotes information is submitted by alumni themselves, not by Rice staff. Hence, its accuracy and timeliness reflect the tendency of our alums to self-report, not the tracking done by Rice offices.
04-28-2021 11:26 AM
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nightowl24 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Rice Kids
ok i'm going to address a bunch of points here......

WRC....i understand headcount sports. my wife was one of the ladies that fought rice(and WON) to get more money for off campus housing for not just the non-headcount sports but for ALL athletics. yes i fully understand that non-headcount sports have a harder time, but that is across the board at every single school and they are still getting some of the best talent around. you are giving excuses to why they aren't going after kids, stop it. with regard to football and running track, once again you are incorrect. while i was at rice we had several football guys run track and it was never a problem. they went to football workouts AND they did track workouts. my son who has committed at this time, was asked if he wanted to run track at said school, he said yes...they HEAD COACH was very excited and said he was HOPING he would say yes because he feels that my son would be a great addition to the men's track team as well. jamal charles while at ut was able to run track also. mack brown didn't want him running hurdles but never had a problem with him running the 60, 100 and 200. i can go down the line of football guys that also ran track, they are okay with it long as you're still getting your weightlifting with the football team. so again those are excuses.....we need to stop with it and address the lack of doing things a better way.

RiceLad and OO....two part answer.....keeping up with rice kids isn't easy....keep up with their parents. if you know where they stay it's easy to send a form when you are asking for money that simply asks do you have any kids and what age are they, what extra-curricular activities they are in. i mean i came up with that literally as i was typing by they haven't come up with that in all these years...cmon now. next they wouldn't track kids from birth until recruitable age, that is just truly doing too much. you start with ex-athletes. am i saying that non-athletes can't have athletic kids? no i'm not, but generally speaking genetics travel, just saying. so if you start with our ex-athletes..have them be a part of the school, know their family, know their kids, you don't have find out about them, you ALREADY KNOW about them. there is no way that any ex-athlete should go to their sports front office and they NOT know who they are. i know for a fact that my friends at other schools do not have to introduce themselves when they arrive at their schools. they walk in and are greeted with first name hellos, etc. our relations are terrible and they think a bbq or tailgate where they ask you for money at the end is going to make it better.

actual relationships aren't being built. they build them with the select few that they feel can do something for them. ND, Izzo, Sendejo etc. those guys are high profile so they without a doubt build a great relationship with them, but what about LaDouphyous McCalla? Julian Duncan? Jarret Erwin? Joe Bob Thompson? Julian Duncan was the first black person to be head of marketing for an NFL team.... has a son and a daughter(both are young). He's in Fla but he loves his school. keeping up with ex-athletes kids isn't hard, they aren't trying and don't want to. in the process they are alienating their alumni, but from where I stand they truly don't care how we feel about them pushing us away. they don't seem to truly care about forging real sustainable relationships....they just want our money and if you aren't giving them tons of money or can get them tons of money, they are uninterested in actually building a relationship with us.....

finally...i will repeat once AGAIN. i could careless if they recruit my sons or not. it means so very little to me. taking that stance makes it seem like i feel like my son is missing out on an opportunity. whether my sons get scholarships or not they will go to school, so there are no missed opportunities over here. RICE is missing out on being better. it's about being able to upgrade your talent or at worst continue getting good talent. we aren't doing that and from an alumni's standpoint, NOT a parent, it's frustrating. like i said my son has already committed at this point and my youngest is a freshman(I'm telling you right now....he will also go to a D1 school...he's ranked as the #9 RB in the area in his class). has little to do with my kid and more to do with my school being the best it can be. if you can find me 3 moves later to ask me for money, i think you know if i have child that is an elite athlete.
04-28-2021 11:37 AM
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RiceLad15 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Rice Kids
(04-28-2021 11:37 AM)nightowl24 Wrote:  RiceLad and OO....two part answer.....keeping up with rice kids isn't easy....keep up with their parents. if you know where they stay it's easy to send a form when you are asking for money that simply asks do you have any kids and what age are they, what extra-curricular activities they are in. i mean i came up with that literally as i was typing by they haven't come up with that in all these years...cmon now. next they wouldn't track kids from birth until recruitable age, that is just truly doing too much. you start with ex-athletes. am i saying that non-athletes can't have athletic kids? no i'm not, but generally speaking genetics travel, just saying. so if you start with our ex-athletes..have them be a part of the school, know their family, know their kids, you don't have find out about them, you ALREADY KNOW about them. there is no way that any ex-athlete should go to their sports front office and they NOT know who they are. i know for a fact that my friends at other schools do not have to introduce themselves when they arrive at their schools. they walk in and are greeted with first name hellos, etc. our relations are terrible and they think a bbq or tailgate where they ask you for money at the end is going to make it better.

actual relationships aren't being built. they build them with the select few that they feel can do something for them. ND, Izzo, Sendejo etc. those guys are high profile so they without a doubt build a great relationship with them, but what about LaDouphyous McCalla? Julian Duncan? Jarret Erwin? Joe Bob Thompson? Julian Duncan was the first black person to be head of marketing for an NFL team.... has a son and a daughter(both are young). He's in Fla but he loves his school. keeping up with ex-athletes kids isn't hard, they aren't trying and don't want to. in the process they are alienating their alumni, but from where I stand they truly don't care how we feel about them pushing us away. they don't seem to truly care about forging real sustainable relationships....they just want our money and if you aren't giving them tons of money or can get them tons of money, they are uninterested in actually building a relationship with us.....

finally...i will repeat once AGAIN. i could careless if they recruit my sons or not. it means so very little to me. taking that stance makes it seem like i feel like my son is missing out on an opportunity. whether my sons get scholarships or not they will go to school, so there are no missed opportunities over here. RICE is missing out on being better. it's about being able to upgrade your talent or at worst continue getting good talent. we aren't doing that and from an alumni's standpoint, NOT a parent, it's frustrating. like i said my son has already committed at this point and my youngest is a freshman(I'm telling you right now....he will also go to a D1 school...he's ranked as the #9 RB in the area in his class). has little to do with my kid and more to do with my school being the best it can be. if you can find me 3 moves later to ask me for money, i think you know if i have child that is an elite athlete.

To the bolded is why I'm asking some of these questions.

I'll continue to be honest that I do not have even a superficial insight into how the AD develops relationships with former athletes and how head coaches go about recruiting, but I feel like we should give them the benefit of the doubt that something so simple, and potentially rewarding, hasn't been done for a reason.

Now there is a chance that truly not a single person in the entire AD has not thought of targeting, tracking, and cultivating relationships of former lettermen to help enhance athletic recruiting. But I feel like it's more likely that there's more to the story than that, hence the questions.

These questions aren't poo-pooing this idea/philosophy - I think it's incredibly compelling to try and leverage these familial connections. I'm interested in what we've tried, what we're currently doing, etc. Just because Rice isn't actively recruiting children of former letter winners, doesn't mean it hasn't been part of the discussion (or isn't even part of the current strategy).
04-28-2021 12:08 PM
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WRCisforgotten79 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Rice Kids
(04-28-2021 11:37 AM)nightowl24 Wrote:  ok i'm going to address a bunch of points here......

WRC....i understand headcount sports. my wife was one of the ladies that fought rice(and WON) to get more money for off campus housing for not just the non-headcount sports but for ALL athletics. yes i fully understand that non-headcount sports have a harder time, but that is across the board at every single school and they are still getting some of the best talent around. you are giving excuses to why they aren't going after kids, stop it. with regard to football and running track, once again you are incorrect. while i was at rice we had several football guys run track and it was never a problem. they went to football workouts AND they did track workouts. my son who has committed at this time, was asked if he wanted to run track at said school, he said yes...they HEAD COACH was very excited and said he was HOPING he would say yes because he feels that my son would be a great addition to the men's track team as well. jamal charles while at ut was able to run track also. mack brown didn't want him running hurdles but never had a problem with him running the 60, 100 and 200. i can go down the line of football guys that also ran track, they are okay with it long as you're still getting your weightlifting with the football team. so again those are excuses.....we need to stop with it and address the lack of doing things a better way.

First, within the past hour, I sent a DM to hambone acknowledging that you are more aware of the situation than almost anyone, due to K being a great sprinter at Rice.

Second, if Rice non-head count sports don't go after a particular individual, that means that the coach does not believe that he or she is good enough to compete against the other teams in our conference in the particular event or events, or is not good enough to compete on a national level.

Third, Rice football coaches talk a good game in recruiting a football/track athlete, but they either make it difficult for the athlete to compete in track and field, or the athlete himself decides that football should be full time. Track and field had George Nyakwol for I believe one conference indoor meet when he was a freshman, and nothing since. And he is a GREAT jumper. Before that, Sam McGuffie competed indoors in his transfer (redshirt) year.

That's it. Certain schools encourage (or at least don't discourage) the football players to compete. Most do not. FACT. College football coaches LIE to get the athlete to commit. FACT. Once they are there it's like "Sure, you can run track, but if you miss spring practices and the spring game, you will be on the scout team when you come back." Don't be naive. You know that happens. There are very, very few exceptions - Devon Achane of Texas A&M is an outlier. The fastest college football player, bar none, is Anthony Schwartz of Auburn. He's not even on the Tigers' track and field roster.
04-28-2021 12:10 PM
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nightowl24 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Rice Kids
you do realize I freaking played at this school?! you can't tell me more about how football goes and how coaches deal with their players...I WAS A PLAYER. adrian sadler ran track...derek gary ran track....jermey hurd ran and jumped.....clifford sparks ran track....like i said there were several other guys that ran track and played football and it was NEVER a problem.....i can even go to players on other teams that i PERSONALLY know that did both and there were ZERO problems. you can't tell me more about this as i freaking lived it.

what you see is most guys realize that running track in college is the small man's game....they are too much smaller than we are. we were able to run with them in high school but we are too heavy to really continue to compete so we don't...has little to nothing to do with the coach has everything to do with the players understanding that it's too much and we focus on one thing...hell my last year of playing we were going to all go out for track to field what we felt would be a formidable 4x1 team...we saw some of those times and quickly realized that we were out of our league. we had gone too many years without being on the track.

your 2nd point is total hogwash. the great thing about track is that there is no scheme, there is no bias...you have jumps, throws and times...and either they stack up or they don't. a kid has the fastest time in the nation and you telling they came to the conclusion that he CAN'T compete with the nation's best...man stop it...just quit with the nonsense. as it stands right now some of these times are faster than anything a current rice track kid has EVER run and you saying he can't compete....boy please. you talking real nonsense right now.
04-28-2021 12:46 PM
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nightowl24 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Rice Kids
if they look at kid that runs a 10.27 and a 20.94 and says "they can't compete with what we have in our conf." then that coach needs to be fire because they clearly have no clue what competitive times are.

you can take that how you feel..cause what you are eluding to is that the current coaches are looking at these kids and are saying this top 10 ranked kids can't compete....if that is the case the we have coaches that do not know how to evaluated talent. which leads me to believe there is a reason why we are getting our collective butts kicked in non-head sports.....we don't know good talent when we see it.
04-28-2021 12:50 PM
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WRCisforgotten79 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Rice Kids
I like it when guys who were in college a generation or more ago try to act like they know what's going on now. Hilarious.

Also, why don't you point out that the 10.27 was with a huge 2.8 meters/second tailwind? The sub-21 was nice, but also with a 2.0 tailwind.
04-28-2021 01:25 PM
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Post: #29
RE: Rice Kids
(04-28-2021 01:25 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  I like it when guys who were in college a generation or more ago try to act like they know what's going on now. Hilarious.

Also, why don't you point out that the 10.27 was with a huge 2.8 meters/second tailwind? The sub-21 was nice, but also with a 2.0 tailwind.

I like it when guys who were in college even LONGER ago try and tell those others what's going on from the perspective of a parent of a college prospect.

Times are what times are. Plenty of track events have issues with winds being too high to be 'official', but fast is fast.

What was the fastest time this year for a Rice athlete in the 100? Wind aided or not? Is 10.27 competitive or not? I'm betting it is, and THAT kid is still in high school. You insist that others notice some things, but ignore similar differences yourself.

If he can run 10.27 with a wind at 17 or 18, I wonder what he can do at 21 with 3-4 years of professional coaching? Nobody is saying this kid is 'the best'... though I'd point out that this wasn't an aberration. He is simply saying those are HIGHLY competitive times.... and 'people like this' who have a built-in affinity for Rice could provide valuable points to the track team.

It could actually be an ADVANTAGE that he gets in on his own... he would not owe his time or scholarship to a coach/sport.
04-28-2021 02:07 PM
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Fort Bend Owl Online
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Post: #30
RE: Rice Kids
Brek Christiansen is following McCalla. So are Leroy Burrell (UH head coach) and coaches at Baylor, Oklahoma and a bunch of other schools.

In looking through some of the twitter followers, I see that Josh McMillan (one of the kids nightowl mentioned) might be a HBU football commit?
(This post was last modified: 04-28-2021 02:26 PM by Fort Bend Owl.)
04-28-2021 02:25 PM
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nightowl24 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Rice Kids
so you know...the 20.94 was wind legal...then he ran the day before he went 10.33 running the opposite direction...but hey you know what's what right? i was there my friend....if you would like to go down that rabbit hole we can... if you look at the best times in the nation in the 100...one kid has a non wind aided sub 10.3..the two kids that have non-wind aided 10.3 both went 10.32...McCalla went 10.33 running against the wind IN the rain the day before....still want to continue to act you like what your talking about? as i stated i was there....that kid is faster than anything we've had a rice in the 100 since before i was there...and to say he can't compete in this conference...he's beating kids that are already committed to bigger schools.....so i will say again....if our coaches can't see these kids can compete not only at rice, but in our conf and on the national level they need to go cause they are the reason we are getting our teeth kicked in year in and year out because they clearly don't know how to evaluate talent.....

i find it hilarious that someone who knows jack crap about what he's talking about tries to discredit someone who knows way the hell more than they do about the situation. regardless if i played 20yrs ago or not...due to the fact that i coached in texas for 11years after i stayed in touch with how colleges were being run and how things operated on the inside. this allowed me to send over 200 kids to different levels to get there school paid for in various sports and extra-curricular activities(i've gotten no less than 10 girls scholarships for video services). now that my son is going through it it has paid off quite a bit....you are hilarious because you literally know not what you speak of but try to put someone on game but have only seen the view from outside the window...i've seen from inside, outside, and from the the top side.....lol......
(This post was last modified: 04-28-2021 02:45 PM by nightowl24.)
04-28-2021 02:31 PM
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Rice93 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Rice Kids
Do we even have sprinters on the men's track team? Maybe a dumb question but I'm not seeing it on the roster...

https://riceowls.com/sports/mens-track-and-field/roster
04-28-2021 02:37 PM
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nightowl24 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Rice Kids
(04-28-2021 02:25 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  Brek Christiansen is following McCalla. So are Leroy Burrell (UH head coach) and coaches at Baylor, Oklahoma and a bunch of other schools.

In looking through some of the twitter followers, I see that Josh McMillan (one of the kids nightowl mentioned) might be a HBU football commit?


and once again....we will have a rice kid go elsewhere because as WRC says "he can't compete in the CUSA" ......just so everyone is on game UCLA told the kid he needed to hit certain times and they would offer....times have been hit....ucla has a much stronger tradition than we do, so don't you think if they can see this kid has the ability rice should have just offered because they are no where near competing against what ucla is...but hey i don't know a damn thing about what i'm talking about i'm just an ex-player that is way past his prime that is yelling get off my lawn...lolol

yes Josh McMillan II has committed to HBU...funny thing is part of the reason he chose to commit is because of Coach Hinshaw. he was his dad's DC and position coach and he KNEW he was a good guy and he also knew that Steve moniaci was a good guy and would do all to make playing there a good thing. his dad felt that his son would be in good hands with those two men over there.....PERSONAL CONNECTIONS MATTER....but hey i know nothing i just got a TWO kids going through this process....lololol.....
(This post was last modified: 04-28-2021 02:44 PM by nightowl24.)
04-28-2021 02:42 PM
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nightowl24 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Rice Kids
if we are trying to get the most bang for our buck......distance kids can only run 3 events in track...but how many times do you have a 3200, 1600, 800 kid....hardly ever...so those kids are still only competing in 2 events and they not even at the top of the respective events....but you trying to tell me a kid who is going to be in the same amount of events AND is at the top of his respective event he can't compete at our school.....chile please....again this isn't about getting them to recruit THESE kids....it's about how we are going about our business and how we are going to continue to miss out on kids because we aren't just using the most basic of information to get them interested in us......its crazy how we shoot ourselves in the foot but want to blame everything around us as to why we can't do well consistently.....
04-28-2021 02:49 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #35
RE: Rice Kids
What is the rule on counting scholarships of football players who also run track? Or play baseball? Or basketball?

I'm just wondering whether, depending on the rules, we might be able to establish ourselves as a destination school for multi-sport HS athletes who wish to continue to participate in more than one sport at the university level.
04-28-2021 03:08 PM
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illiniowl Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Rice Kids
(04-28-2021 02:49 PM)nightowl24 Wrote:  if we are trying to get the most bang for our buck......distance kids can only run 3 events in track...but how many times do you have a 3200, 1600, 800 kid....hardly ever...so those kids are still only competing in 2 events and they not even at the top of the respective events....but you trying to tell me a kid who is going to be in the same amount of events AND is at the top of his respective event he can't compete at our school.....chile please....again this isn't about getting them to recruit THESE kids....it's about how we are going about our business and how we are going to continue to miss out on kids because we aren't just using the most basic of information to get them interested in us......its crazy how we shoot ourselves in the foot but want to blame everything around us as to why we can't do well consistently.....

The gamut of events middle distance & distance guys can run IN COLLEGE is: 4x400, DMR (indoor), 800, mile (in)/1500 (out), 3000 (in)/3000 steeple (out), 5000, 10000 (out).

And XC in the fall.
04-28-2021 03:26 PM
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Fort Bend Owl Online
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Post: #37
RE: Rice Kids
(04-28-2021 03:08 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  What is the rule on counting scholarships of football players who also run track? Or play baseball? Or basketball?

I'm just wondering whether, depending on the rules, we might be able to establish ourselves as a destination school for multi-sport HS athletes who wish to continue to participate in more than one sport at the university level.

There is no limit against that - the scholarship is considered football and not track (or whatever sport they were signed to come to Rice in initially). Austin Conrad and Evan Marshman are competing at Rice this spring in track and field (they're Rice's only sprinters), but they are both still on football scholarship.
(This post was last modified: 04-28-2021 03:43 PM by Fort Bend Owl.)
04-28-2021 03:41 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #38
RE: Rice Kids
(04-28-2021 03:41 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  
(04-28-2021 03:08 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  What is the rule on counting scholarships of football players who also run track? Or play baseball? Or basketball?
I'm just wondering whether, depending on the rules, we might be able to establish ourselves as a destination school for multi-sport HS athletes who wish to continue to participate in more than one sport at the university level.
There is no limit against that - the scholarship is considered football and not track (or whatever sport they were signed to come to Rice in initially). Austin Conrad and Evan Marshman are competing at Rice this spring in track and field (they're Rice's only sprinters), but they are both still on football scholarship.

That was the way I remembered it, just wanted someone to verify. I still think that's a potential opportunity for us.
04-28-2021 03:45 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Rice Kids
(04-28-2021 02:37 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  Do we even have sprinters on the men's track team? Maybe a dumb question but I'm not seeing it on the roster...

https://riceowls.com/sports/mens-track-and-field/roster

That's sort of the point. Rice has frequently gotten 'sprinter' points from guys who were on the football team. When I was there (going from aged memory) our two top 100 and 200 guys (plus the 4 x 100) were both WRs on the team.... and among the top in the conference (a GOOD track conference for sprinters... including Carl Lewis and others)

So if you have a guy who is a solid track prospect (whether or not a 'star') and a solid football prospect (whether or not a 'star') AND has a familial connection... this person should be favored over:

a) someone with similar academic credentials but no connection
b) someone with similar athletic credentials but in only one sport and no connection

And because of the connection, this is a value TO THE UNIVERSITY, so the UNIVERSITY should support it and help with it.

It seems silly to offer support from our endowment for persons on the hope that this educational opportunity would create better earning potential for that person, and then to let that 'investment' that we made in them be hijacked by a university who solely wants to exploit their offsprings athletic talent.
(This post was last modified: 04-28-2021 05:41 PM by Hambone10.)
04-28-2021 05:21 PM
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grOWLer Offline
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Posts: 217
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I Root For: Rice Owls
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Post: #40
RE: Rice Kids
Why not just send a message to the appropriate coach and say, "So-and-so at such-and-such high school ran a 10.3 100 meters last week at the District Meet. He/she is a junior/senior. You may not be aware of this, but his father/mother is a Rice graduate and scholar/athlete."

It may not get a response, but Rice coaches are busy and may not know that some athlete's father/mother attended Rice or was a scholar/athlete. The father/mother may have graduated before the coach came to the school and/or the coach may not recognize the family relationship.

If we do this, we may actually be solving the problem instead of griping about it.
04-28-2021 08:25 PM
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