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Extortion... make the A5 pay more money
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slhNavy91 Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Extortion... make the A5 pay more money
(04-23-2021 12:13 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-23-2021 12:03 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(04-22-2021 11:23 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  college football is at 130 teams and needs to split into two leagues, it’s just that the g5 needs a network to pony up the money, the up and coming Trump network just might do it... my fingers are crossed

Let's put it this way:

There are about 130 FBS schools; half are in a cartel known as the "P5."

The other 65 FBS schools are split into 5 conferences and a group of independents.

They need to form their own cartel - - not a "league per se," but a cartel, although it could have a name.

Until they band together, they will continue to be as "screwed" as they have been for the past 7-8 years.

Banding together won't solve the problem, in and of itself, but it is a necessary first step.

Once they band together, they can begin to get somewhere...

.

...with one exception:

The AAC could get somewhere if it finally grows a pair and gets serious about expanding to 14.

Q: Is that likely to happen?

A: If it were likely, it already would have happened by now.

.

Another way to put it is this:

A lot of AAC fans are disenchanted with the failure of the AAC leadership to take direct action to move toward power conference status.

Many of these fans don't even believe that the AAC is serious about trying to become a power conference.

If the AAC doesn't take direct action toward becoming a power conference soon, a lot of AAC fans are going to consider the other possibilities, which could include trying to boost the conference by working together with the fans of the other G5 conferences and the FBS independents to take action.


The AAC can't take their fans for granted for too much longer. More and more AAC fans are starting to become cynical about their purported "strategy," and are starting to look for other ways to move the conference toward autonomous/power conference status. whether independently or in collaboration with the other non-P5 FBS schools.

.

I can assure you this is the exact opposite of the AAC strategy. The AAC believes it’s best route to success is separating the AAC from the rest of the G5—not joining with the G5 in a cartel that could result in the AAC being permanently chained to the rest of the G5 in a new “FCS” division.

The reality is the public cares a great deal about who is the best college football team in the nation—thus the P5 championship will lose some interest as 65 fan bases leave the top division—but the P5 division will be fine retaining most of the general public’s interest. Sadly, the G5 “FCS” division will be viewed as a lesser division, thus, their games and championship will be viewed as the race to see who is the 66th best team in the nation---and the 66th best doesnt really command a lot of interest. Nobody will care about the G5 “FCS” but the fans of the schools playing—-just like the general public has little interest right now about FCS games or the FCS playoff. You have to be in the top division of college football to matter. We need more access and inclusion in that top level—not more separation.

Have fun, Attack.

Here's you and me talking ratings and money and G5 playoff with JHS55 in August of 2018 https://csnbbs.com/thread-855471-post-15...id15434285
(This post was last modified: 04-23-2021 07:31 PM by slhNavy91.)
04-23-2021 07:30 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Extortion... make the A5 pay more money
(04-23-2021 07:30 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  
(04-23-2021 12:13 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-23-2021 12:03 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(04-22-2021 11:23 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  college football is at 130 teams and needs to split into two leagues, it’s just that the g5 needs a network to pony up the money, the up and coming Trump network just might do it... my fingers are crossed

Let's put it this way:

There are about 130 FBS schools; half are in a cartel known as the "P5."

The other 65 FBS schools are split into 5 conferences and a group of independents.

They need to form their own cartel - - not a "league per se," but a cartel, although it could have a name.

Until they band together, they will continue to be as "screwed" as they have been for the past 7-8 years.

Banding together won't solve the problem, in and of itself, but it is a necessary first step.

Once they band together, they can begin to get somewhere...

.

...with one exception:

The AAC could get somewhere if it finally grows a pair and gets serious about expanding to 14.

Q: Is that likely to happen?

A: If it were likely, it already would have happened by now.

.

Another way to put it is this:

A lot of AAC fans are disenchanted with the failure of the AAC leadership to take direct action to move toward power conference status.

Many of these fans don't even believe that the AAC is serious about trying to become a power conference.

If the AAC doesn't take direct action toward becoming a power conference soon, a lot of AAC fans are going to consider the other possibilities, which could include trying to boost the conference by working together with the fans of the other G5 conferences and the FBS independents to take action.


The AAC can't take their fans for granted for too much longer. More and more AAC fans are starting to become cynical about their purported "strategy," and are starting to look for other ways to move the conference toward autonomous/power conference status. whether independently or in collaboration with the other non-P5 FBS schools.

.

I can assure you this is the exact opposite of the AAC strategy. The AAC believes it’s best route to success is separating the AAC from the rest of the G5—not joining with the G5 in a cartel that could result in the AAC being permanently chained to the rest of the G5 in a new “FCS” division.

The reality is the public cares a great deal about who is the best college football team in the nation—thus the P5 championship will lose some interest as 65 fan bases leave the top division—but the P5 division will be fine retaining most of the general public’s interest. Sadly, the G5 “FCS” division will be viewed as a lesser division, thus, their games and championship will be viewed as the race to see who is the 66th best team in the nation---and the 66th best doesnt really command a lot of interest. Nobody will care about the G5 “FCS” but the fans of the schools playing—-just like the general public has little interest right now about FCS games or the FCS playoff. You have to be in the top division of college football to matter. We need more access and inclusion in that top level—not more separation.

Have fun, Attack.

Here's you and me talking ratings and money and G5 playoff with JHS55 in August of 2018 https://csnbbs.com/thread-855471-post-15...id15434285

lol....Oh good grief.....



(This post was last modified: 04-23-2021 07:41 PM by Attackcoog.)
04-23-2021 07:38 PM
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slhNavy91 Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Extortion... make the A5 pay more money
(04-23-2021 07:38 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-23-2021 07:30 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  
(04-23-2021 12:13 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-23-2021 12:03 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(04-22-2021 11:23 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  college football is at 130 teams and needs to split into two leagues, it’s just that the g5 needs a network to pony up the money, the up and coming Trump network just might do it... my fingers are crossed

Let's put it this way:

There are about 130 FBS schools; half are in a cartel known as the "P5."

The other 65 FBS schools are split into 5 conferences and a group of independents.

They need to form their own cartel - - not a "league per se," but a cartel, although it could have a name.

Until they band together, they will continue to be as "screwed" as they have been for the past 7-8 years.

Banding together won't solve the problem, in and of itself, but it is a necessary first step.

Once they band together, they can begin to get somewhere...

.

...with one exception:

The AAC could get somewhere if it finally grows a pair and gets serious about expanding to 14.

Q: Is that likely to happen?

A: If it were likely, it already would have happened by now.

.

Another way to put it is this:

A lot of AAC fans are disenchanted with the failure of the AAC leadership to take direct action to move toward power conference status.

Many of these fans don't even believe that the AAC is serious about trying to become a power conference.

If the AAC doesn't take direct action toward becoming a power conference soon, a lot of AAC fans are going to consider the other possibilities, which could include trying to boost the conference by working together with the fans of the other G5 conferences and the FBS independents to take action.


The AAC can't take their fans for granted for too much longer. More and more AAC fans are starting to become cynical about their purported "strategy," and are starting to look for other ways to move the conference toward autonomous/power conference status. whether independently or in collaboration with the other non-P5 FBS schools.

.

I can assure you this is the exact opposite of the AAC strategy. The AAC believes it’s best route to success is separating the AAC from the rest of the G5—not joining with the G5 in a cartel that could result in the AAC being permanently chained to the rest of the G5 in a new “FCS” division.

The reality is the public cares a great deal about who is the best college football team in the nation—thus the P5 championship will lose some interest as 65 fan bases leave the top division—but the P5 division will be fine retaining most of the general public’s interest. Sadly, the G5 “FCS” division will be viewed as a lesser division, thus, their games and championship will be viewed as the race to see who is the 66th best team in the nation---and the 66th best doesnt really command a lot of interest. Nobody will care about the G5 “FCS” but the fans of the schools playing—-just like the general public has little interest right now about FCS games or the FCS playoff. You have to be in the top division of college football to matter. We need more access and inclusion in that top level—not more separation.

Have fun, Attack.

Here's you and me talking ratings and money and G5 playoff with JHS55 in August of 2018 https://csnbbs.com/thread-855471-post-15...id15434285

lol....Good grief. Im reminded of a Bill Murray scene.




I had saved that away for some reason....

not only that, five posts later, still in August 2018:
"Actually, the next TV deal is only an intermediate objective. P6 - frankly the conference's Strategic Plan - is about 2025. Success is defined by the AAC's place in the landscape after the next big shakeup."

and then in ANOTHER five posts, still in August 2018:
"Fine but the "temoporary" CFP carrot goes through the 2025 season. In the AAC Strategic Plan, the Commissioner's foreword talks about "the next several critical years, where opportunities await."
Choices between now and that endstate date of 2025 that would relegate ourselves to second-class status wouldn't be a Plan B as much as it would be abandoning the Strategic Plan."
04-23-2021 07:43 PM
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Rob3338 Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Extortion... make the A5 pay more money
(04-22-2021 03:36 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  mybe we can force the A5 to triple the amount of cfp payouts to the g5 by proposing a g5 break away and or a g5 playoffs

extortion is the name of the game...

The P5 would love to have us establish a g5 playoff. It would be the end of the g5 and any hope that some of our teams would eventually be promoted to the P5.

However there is almost no hope for promotion anyway.
04-24-2021 08:12 AM
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JHS55 Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Extortion... make the A5 pay more money
(04-23-2021 07:30 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-23-2021 05:29 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  
(04-23-2021 12:13 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-23-2021 12:03 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(04-22-2021 11:23 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  college football is at 130 teams and needs to split into two leagues, it’s just that the g5 needs a network to pony up the money, the up and coming Trump network just might do it... my fingers are crossed

Let's put it this way:

There are about 130 FBS schools; half are in a cartel known as the "P5."

The other 65 FBS schools are split into 5 conferences and a group of independents.

They need to form their own cartel - - not a "league per se," but a cartel, although it could have a name.

Until they band together, they will continue to be as "screwed" as they have been for the past 7-8 years.

Banding together won't solve the problem, in and of itself, but it is a necessary first step.

Once they band together, they can begin to get somewhere...

.

...with one exception:

The AAC could get somewhere if it finally grows a pair and gets serious about expanding to 14.

Q: Is that likely to happen?

A: If it were likely, it already would have happened by now.

.

Another way to put it is this:

A lot of AAC fans are disenchanted with the failure of the AAC leadership to take direct action to move toward power conference status.

Many of these fans don't even believe that the AAC is serious about trying to become a power conference.

If the AAC doesn't take direct action toward becoming a power conference soon, a lot of AAC fans are going to consider the other possibilities, which could include trying to boost the conference by working together with the fans of the other G5 conferences and the FBS independents to take action.


The AAC can't take their fans for granted for too much longer. More and more AAC fans are starting to become cynical about their purported "strategy," and are starting to look for other ways to move the conference toward autonomous/power conference status. whether independently or in collaboration with the other non-P5 FBS schools.

.

I can assure you this is the exact opposite of the AAC strategy. The AAC believes it’s best route to success is separating the AAC from the rest of the G5—not joining with the G5 in a cartel that could result in the AAC being permanently chained to the rest of the G5 in a new “FCS” division.

The reality is the public cares a great deal about who is the best college football team in the nation—thus the P5 championship will lose some interest as 65 fan bases leave the top division—but the P5 division will be fine retaining most of the general public’s interest. Sadly, the G5 “FCS” division will be viewed as a lesser division, thus, their games and championship will be viewed as the race to see who is the 66th best team in the nation---and the 66th best doesnt really command a lot of interest. Nobody will care about the G5 “FCS” but the fans of the schools playing—-just like the general public has little interest right now about FCS games or the FCS playoff. You have to be in the top division of college football to matter. We need more access andes inclusion in that top level—not more separation.
the reality is you have no confidence in a g5 league and championship, what is true is that there are questions as to the success of a g5 league viewed as top level FBS, questions that can only be answered when it fails or succeeds
one thing is for sure, you say “FCS” way too much

lol----That may be the first point you have made in this thread where there actually is total agreement between us. 04-cheers
i’ll give you another reality power point, it’s really nice weather in houston today...
04-24-2021 08:50 AM
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PirateJP Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Extortion... make the A5 pay more money
Do you hear everybody talking about the FCS playoffs right now? No, not a word. If you want to become an afterthought break away and have a G5 playoff
04-24-2021 08:52 AM
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JHS55 Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Extortion... make the A5 pay more money
(04-23-2021 07:30 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  
(04-23-2021 12:13 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-23-2021 12:03 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(04-22-2021 11:23 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  college football is at 130 teams and needs to split into two leagues, it’s just that the g5 needs a network to pony up the money, the up and coming Trump network just might do it... my fingers are crossed

Let's put it this way:

There are about 130 FBS schools; half are in a cartel known as the "P5."

The other 65 FBS schools are split into 5 conferences and a group of independents.

They need to form their own cartel - - not a "league per se," but a cartel, although it could have a name.

Until they band together, they will continue to be as "screwed" as they have been for the past 7-8 years.

Banding together won't solve the problem, in and of itself, but it is a necessary first step.

Once they band together, they can begin to get somewhere...

.

...with one exception:

The AAC could get somewhere if it finally grows a pair and gets serious about expanding to 14.

Q: Is that likely to happen?

A: If it were likely, it already would have happened by now.

.

Another way to put it is this:

A lot of AAC fans are disenchanted with the failure of the AAC leadership to take direct action to move toward power conference status.

Many of these fans don't even believe that the AAC is serious about trying to become a power conference.

If the AAC doesn't take direct action toward becoming a power conference soon, a lot of AAC fans are going to consider the other possibilities, which could include trying to boost the conference by working together with the fans of the other G5 conferences and the FBS independents to take action.


The AAC can't take their fans for granted for too much longer. More and more AAC fans are starting to become cynical about their purported "strategy," and are starting to look for other ways to move the conference toward autonomous/power conference status. whether independently or in collaboration with the other non-P5 FBS schools.

.

I can assure you this is the exact opposite of the AAC strategy. The AAC believes it’s best route to success is separating the AAC from the rest of the G5—not joining with the G5 in a cartel that could result in the AAC being permanently chained to the rest of the G5 in a new “FCS” division.

The reality is the public cares a great deal about who is the best college football team in the nation—thus the P5 championship will lose some interest as 65 fan bases leave the top division—but the P5 division will be fine retaining most of the general public’s interest. Sadly, the G5 “FCS” division will be viewed as a lesser division, thus, their games and championship will be viewed as the race to see who is the 66th best team in the nation---and the 66th best doesnt really command a lot of interest. Nobody will care about the G5 “FCS” but the fans of the schools playing—-just like the general public has little interest right now about FCS games or the FCS playoff. You have to be in the top division of college football to matter. We need more access and inclusion in that top level—not more separation.

Have fun, Attack.

Here's you and me talking ratings and money and G5 playoff with JHS55 in August of 2018 https://csnbbs.com/thread-855471-post-15...id15434285
intresting read, i guess we’re stuck in groundhog day untill 2025
04-24-2021 08:59 AM
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geosnooker2000 Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Extortion... make the A5 pay more money
(04-24-2021 08:52 AM)PirateJP Wrote:  Do you hear everybody talking about the FCS playoffs right now? No, not a word. If you want to become an afterthought break away and have a G5 playoff

Yep.
04-24-2021 10:38 AM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Extortion... make the A5 pay more money
(04-23-2021 12:13 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-23-2021 12:03 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  Let's put it this way:

There are about 130 FBS schools; half are in a cartel known as the "P5."

The other 65 FBS schools are split into 5 conferences and a group of independents.

They need to form their own cartel - - not a "league per se," but a cartel, although it could have a name.

Until they band together, they will continue to be as "screwed" as they have been for the past 7-8 years.

Banding together won't solve the problem, in and of itself, but it is a necessary first step.

Once they band together, they can begin to get somewhere...

.

...with one exception:

The AAC could get somewhere if it finally grows a pair and gets serious about expanding to 14.

Q: Is that likely to happen?

A: If it were likely, it already would have happened by now.

.

Another way to put it is this:

A lot of AAC fans are disenchanted with the failure of the AAC leadership to take direct action to move toward power conference status.

Many of these fans don't even believe that the AAC is serious about trying to become a power conference.

If the AAC doesn't take direct action toward becoming a power conference soon, a lot of AAC fans are going to consider the other possibilities, which could include trying to boost the conference by working together with the fans of the other G5 conferences and the FBS independents to take action.


The AAC can't take their fans for granted for too much longer. More and more AAC fans are starting to become cynical about their purported "strategy," and are starting to look for other ways to move the conference toward autonomous/power conference status. whether independently or in collaboration with the other non-P5 FBS schools.


I can assure you this is the exact opposite of the AAC strategy. The AAC believes it’s best route to success is separating the AAC from the rest of the G5—not joining with the G5 in a cartel that could result in the AAC being permanently chained to the rest of the G5 in a new “FCS” division.

.

Yes, it is definitely the exact opposite of the AAC's strategy, which is based on the argument that the American should be referred to as a "P6," rather than a "G5" conference.

Comissioner Aresco reiterated that point in his recent statement a few weeks ago that he considers it highly important for the AAC to prove that it is a full notch above the other G5 conferences.

As an AAC fan, I would very much like to see the AAC's strategic plan succeed, and that's why I would support replacing UConn with Boise and VCU as soon as humanly possible, followed within the next year by a strong move to expand to 14.

.

The question arises: Why would an AAC fan who supports the movement toward full autonomy and power conference status consider supporting a movement by the 65 non-P5 FBS schools to set up a completely separate FBS "cartel" like the P5?

Here's the rationale:

I. The AAC's original strategic plan of moving steadily toward autonomous/power conference status can't succeed unless the AAC Presidents are ready, willing, and able to do all that is necessary to implement it - - for example, by improving and expanding the American until its achievements match those of the P5 conferences. Unfortunately, the AAC Presidents haven't demonstrated those abilities to date.

II. The only significant moves that the American made toward "P6" status took place several years ago when it expanded from 11 to 12 FB and BB members, with Navy (2015) and Wichita State (2017) joining the conference. Since 2017, the only change in AAC membership was UConn's announcement of their departure in mid-2019.

III. In the 4 years since Wichita Stated joined the conference, and in the 22 months that have elapsed since UConn announced their departure, there has been only one event (the ineffectual, half-hearted attempt to recruit Boise State as a FB-only member) signaling that the leadership of the AAC has had any intention to add a member.

IV. The addition of Boise State - - the only major FBS program with the consistent record of success that would be needed to give the AAC a major boost toward P6 status - - would have signaled that the AAC is fully committed to its strategic plan and would have inspired confidence in its ability to make additional moves toward full "P6" status. The AAC could have done so without increasing travel time or travel costs by limiting the number of cross-time zone basketball and olympic sports match-ups and increasing the ratio of OOC to conference games for these sports, but their unwillingness to do so torpedoed the only available move they could have made to implement their strategic plan.

--By refusing Boise State's request to join as an all-sports member, the AAC shot itself in the foot and signaled that it is not committed to make the kinds of sacrifices that would be necessary in order to become an autonomous/power conference.

--By refusing to reconsider Boise's request for full membership, and by failing to make any other moves to replace UConn in either FB or BB/olympic sports, the AAC has proven that it lacks the far-sightedness and the willingness to make any significant move toward becoming an autonomous/power conference.

--Moreover, Commissioner Aresco made it clear in one of his recent remarks that the conference doesn't even have a clear strategy in place for moving toward "P6" status.

V. In summary, UConn's (FB & BB) departure negated the additions of Navy FB and Wichita State BB, leaving the AAC with 11 members - - no more than it had in 2014, its second year of existence. The additions of Navy and Wichita State have not made up for the losses of Louisville and UConn, and the America has made no net movement toward power conference status since its inception.

--The P5 conferences have all had an average of 3 teams in the Final AP Top 25 during the eight years of the AAC's existence, and they and the Big East have all sent at least seven BB teams to one or more NCAA tournaments. If the AAC were really a "P6" power conference, it would attained a similar level of success. However, the American has fallen short in both respects, with an average of 2 Final AP Top 25 football teams per season (33% lower than the ACC), and it has never sent more than 4 teams to the NCAA tournament (43% lower than the PAC-12).

--The only real chance that the AAC has ever had to implement its strategic plan went down the tubes when the conference refused to extend full membership to Boise State, and now, the Commissioner has admitted that the conference no longer has even a clear strategy, much less a clear-cut plan to attain "P6" status.

VI. Until the American takes some meaningful step toward "P6" status - - not in the form of vague promises or intentions - - but an actual announcement of a FB or BB/olympic sports school that is joining the AAC - - there will be no reason to take any AAC statement about being a potential P6 conference seriously.

--With the AAC, despite Commissioner Aresco's best efforts, it has been "all talk and no action." Not only that, but the AAC schools have had trouble achieving a consensus about anything of importance through the years:

--Due to four AAC schools' Cinderella fantasy that they might be swooped away by a P5 conference one day, the conference didn't get the kind of broadcasting revenue that ESPN would have provided if some of them had been willing to sign a broadcasting Grant of Rights.

VII. Fortunately, if the AAC leadership continues to lack the will and determination to drive toward power conference status on its own, there might be another way for the conference to attain autonomous and power conference status - - by doing so by working cooperatively with the MWC, MAC, C-USA, football independents, and Sun Belt conferences, as well as some of the top non-P5 basketball conferences (Big East, WCC, A-10, MVC, etc.) and taking the same steps, collectively that the P5 conferences took when they became a cartel, to set up a collegiate athletics cartel much like the P5 cartel.

VIII. This wouldn't necessarily be an "either/or" situation, because the efforts to become an autonomous/power conference and to work cooperatively toward setting up an alternative to the P5 cartel could go on at the same time, and would not be mutually exclusive.

--If the AAC wants to, it can continue to put most of its effort into becoming a P6 conference, head and shoulders above the other G5 conferences.

--The only requirement would be to participate in a group effort to set up an alternative P5-like cartel would be to have periodic meetings and, eventually, to enter into cooperative negotiations alongside the leadership of the other conferences when the time comes to negotiate for autonomous status from the NCAA.

--Like the P5 conference, the AAC would continue to have their own independent broadcasting agreements.

--If the G5 conferences, FBS independents, and allied non-FBS conferences were to succeed in establishing an alternative to the P5 cartel and achieving autonomous status like the P5 conferences, nothing would prevent the AAC from continuing to strive to be the top FB/BB conference of the bunch, and to be just as good as the top-tier P5 conferences.

VIII. In summary, the AAC would have much to gain and nothing to lose by both (A) continuing to strive independently for "P6" status, and (B) working cooperatively with the other non-P5 conferences and schools to set up a P5-like cartel.

--Right now, considering the fact that the P5 schools only achieved autonomous status by threatening to set up an alternative to the NCAA, it isn't necessarily clear that the conference will be able to achieve autonomous status on its own.

--If the NCAA (urged on, perhaps, by the P5 for reasons of their own) were to refuse to grant autonomous status, the AAC's only chance to achieve autonomous status from the NCAA might be to do so as part of a collective effort, alongside the 64 other non-P5 FBS schools and 50+ Big East, WCC, A-10, and MVC schools.

.....................................................................................................

As the old adage goes, "There's more than one way to skin a cat."

The American has been saying for years that it wants to be considered a full-fledged, autonomous, "P6" power conference, but with only 11 teams, no net increase in membership since 2014, no candidates in sight with which to replace UConn or to begin an expansion process, and not even a clear cut idea about how to proceed, it may not have the gumption to get there on its own.

The American may - - much like the fabled Pinocchio - - need some outside assistance, but in this case, with no "blue fairy" to avail it, the outside assistance might have to come in the form of an alliance with 100+ schools from the top non-P5 FB and BB conferences in the nation.

If anyone were to suppose that the NCAA would turn down a joint request (or demand) from the AAC, Big East, FB indies, MWC, WCC, C-USA, MVC, MAC, Atlantic-10, and Sun Belt Conferences for autonomous status, they would probably have another thing coming.

......................................................................................................

-



.
(This post was last modified: 04-24-2021 01:05 PM by jedclampett.)
04-24-2021 12:44 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Extortion... make the A5 pay more money
(04-24-2021 12:44 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(04-24-2021 08:50 AM)JHS55 Wrote:  
(04-23-2021 07:30 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  [quote='JHS55' pid='17396301' dateline='1619216994']
[quote='Attackcoog' pid='17395729' dateline='1619198009']
[quote='jedclampett' pid='17395176' dateline='1619154224']

Let's put it this way:

There are about 130 FBS schools; half are in a cartel known as the "P5."

The other 65 FBS schools are split into 5 conferences and a group of independents.

They need to form their own cartel - - not a "league per se," but a cartel, although it could have a name.

Until they band together, they will continue to be as "screwed" as they have been for the past 7-8 years.

Banding together won't solve the problem, in and of itself, but it is a necessary first step.

Once they band together, they can begin to get somewhere...

.

...with one exception:

The AAC could get somewhere if it finally grows a pair and gets serious about expanding to 14.

Q: Is that likely to happen?

A: If it were likely, it already would have happened by now.

.

Another way to put it is this:

A lot of AAC fans are disenchanted with the failure of the AAC leadership to take direct action to move toward power conference status.

Many of these fans don't even believe that the AAC is serious about trying to become a power conference.

If the AAC doesn't take direct action toward becoming a power conference soon, a lot of AAC fans are going to consider the other possibilities, which could include trying to boost the conference by working together with the fans of the other G5 conferences and the FBS independents to take action.


The AAC can't take their fans for granted for too much longer. More and more AAC fans are starting to become cynical about their purported "strategy," and are starting to look for other ways to move the conference toward autonomous/power conference status. whether independently or in collaboration with the other non-P5 FBS schools.

I can assure you this is the exact opposite of the AAC strategy. The AAC believes it’s best route to success is separating the AAC from the rest of the G5—not joining with the G5 in a cartel that could result in the AAC being permanently chained to the rest of the G5 in a new “FCS” division.

.

Yes, it is definitely the exact opposite of the AAC's strategy, which is based on the argument that the American should be referred to as a "P6," rather than a "G5" conference.

Comissioner Aresco reiterated that point in his recent statement a few weeks ago that he considers it highly important for the AAC to prove that it is a full notch above the other G5 conferences.

As an AAC fan, I would very much like to see the AAC's strategic plan succeed, and that's why I would support replacing UConn with Boise and VCU as soon as humanly possible, followed within the next year by a strong move to expand to 14.

.

The question arises: Why would an AAC fan who supports the movement toward full autonomy and power conference status consider supporting a movement by the 65 non-P5 FBS schools to set up a completely separate FBS "cartel" like the P5?

Here's the rationale:

I. It only makes sense to support the AAC's strategic plan of moving steadily toward autonomous/power conference status if there is some compelling reason to believe that the leadership of the American is ready, willing, and able to do all that is necessary to fully implement that strategic plan, thus raising the stature of the American until it is head-and-shoulders above the other G5 conferences and FBS independents.

II. The only significant moves that the American made toward "P6" status took place several years ago when it expanded from 11 to 12 FB and BB members, with Navy (2015) and Wichita State (2017) joining the conference. Since 2017, the only change in AAC membership was UConn's announcement of their departure in mid-2019.

III. In the 4 years since Wichita Stated joined the conference, and in the 22 months that have elapsed since UConn announced their departure, there has been only one event (the ineffectual, half-hearted attempt to recruit Boise State as a FB-only member) signaling that the leadership of the AAC has had any intention to either replace UConn or expand.

IV. The addition of Boise State - - the only major FBS program with the consistent record of success that would be needed to give the AAC a major boost toward P6 status - - would have signaled that the AAC is fully committed to its strategic plan and would have inspired confidence in its ability to make additional moves toward full "P6" status. The AAC could have done so without increasing travel time or travel costs by limiting the number of cross-time zone basketball and olympic sports match-ups and increasing the ratio of OOC to conference games for these sports, but their unwillingness to do so torpedoed the only available move they could have made to implement their strategic plan.

--By refusing Boise State's request to join as an all-sports member, the AAC shot itself in the foot and signaled that it is not committed to make the kinds of sacrifices that would be necessary in order to become an autonomous/power conference.

--By refusing to reconsider Boise's request for full membership, and by failing to make any other moves to replace UConn in either FB or BB/olympic sports, the AAC has proven that it lacks the far-sightedness and the willingness to make any significant move toward becoming an autonomous/power conference.

--Moreover, Commissioner Aresco made it clear in one of his recent remarks that the conference doesn't even have a clear strategy in place for moving toward "P6" status.

V. In summary, UConn's (FB & BB) departure negated the additions of Navy FB and Wichita State BB, leaving the AAC with 11 members - - no more than it had in 2014, its second year of existence. The additions of Navy and Wichita State have not made up for the losses of Louisville and UConn, and the America has made no net movement toward power conference status since its inception.

--The P5 conferences have all had an average of 3 teams in the Final AP Top 25 during the eight years of the AAC's existence, and they and the Big East have all sent at least seven BB teams to one or more NCAA tournaments. If the AAC were really a "P6" power conference, it would attained a similar level of success. However, the American has fallen short in both respects, with an average of 2 Final AP Top 25 football teams per season (33% lower than the ACC), and it has never sent more than 4 teams to the NCAA tournament (43% lower than the PAC-12).

--The only real chance that the AAC has ever had to implement its strategic plan went down the tubes when the conference refused to extend full membership to Boise State, and now, the Commissioner has admitted that the conference no longer has even a clear strategy, much less a clear-cut plan to attain "P6" status.

VI. Unless and until the American takes some meaningful step toward "P6" status - - not in the form of vague promises or intentions - - but an actual announcement of a FB or BB/olympic sports school that is joining the AAC - - there will be no reason to take any AAC statement about being a potential P6 conference seriously.

--With the AAC, despite Commissioner Aresco's best efforts, it has been "all talk and no action." Not only that, but the AAC schools have had trouble achieving a consensus about anything of importance through the years:

--Due to four AAC schools' Cinderella fantasy that they might be swooped away by a P5 conference one day, the conference didn't get the kind of broadcasting revenue that ESPN would have provided if some of them had been willing to sign a broadcasting Grant of Rights.

VII. Fortunately, if the AAC leadership continues to lack the will and determination to drive toward power conference status on its own, there might be another way for the conference to attain autonomous and power conference status - - by doing so by working cooperatively with the MWC, MAC, C-USA, football independents, and Sun Belt conferences, as well as some of the top non-P5 basketball conferences (Big East, WCC, A-10, MVC, etc.) and taking the same steps, collectively that the P5 conferences took when they became a cartel, to set up a collegiate athletics cartel much like the P5 cartel.

VIII. This wouldn't necessarily be an "either/or" situation, because the efforts to become an autonomous/power conference and to work cooperatively toward setting up an alternative to the P5 cartel could go on at the same time, and would not be mutually exclusive.

--If the AAC wants to, it can continue to put most of its effort into becoming a P6 conference, head and shoulders above the other G5 conferences.

--All it would have to do to be part of a group effort to set up an alternative P5-like cartel would be to have periodic meetings and, eventuallyl, to enter into cooperative negotiations alongside the leadership of the other conferences when the time comes to negotiate for autonomous status from the NCAA.

--Like the P5 conference, the AAC would continue to have their own independent broadcasting agreements.

--Even if the G5 and FBS independents do eventually succeed in establishing an alternative to the P5 cartel and achieving autonomous status like the P5 conferences, nothing would prevent the AAC from continuing to strive to be the top FB/BB conference of the bunch, and to be just as good as the top-tier P5 conferences.

VIII. In summary, the AAC would have much to gain and nothing to lose by (A) continuing to strive independently for "P6" status, and (B) working cooperatively with the other non-P5 conferences and schools to set up a P5-like cartel.

--Right now, considering the fact that the P5 schools only achieved autonomous status by threatening to set up an alternative to the NCAA, it isn't necessarily clear that the conference will be able to achieve autonomous status on its own.

--If the NCAA (urged on, perhaps, by the P5 for reasons of their own) were to refuse to grant autonomous status, the AAC's only chance to achieve autonomous status from the NCAA might be to do so as part of a collective effort, alongside the 64 other non-P5 FBS schools and 50+ Big East, WCC, A-10, and MVC schools.

.....................................................................................................

As the old adage goes, "There's more than one way to skin a cat."

The American has been saying for years that it wants to be considered a full-fledged, autonomous, "P6" power conference, but with only 11 teams, no net increase in membership since 2014, no candidates in sight with which to replace UConn or to begin an expansion process, and not even a clear cut idea about how to proceed, it may not have the gumption to get there on its own.

The American may - - much like the fabled Pinocchio - - need some outside assistance, but in this case, with no "blue fairy" to avail it, the outside assistance might have to come in the form of an alliance with 100+ schools from the top non-P5 FB and BB conferences in the nation.

If anyone were to suppose that the NCAA would turn down a joint request (or demand) from the AAC, Big East, FB indies, MWC, WCC, C-USA, MVC, MAC, Atlantic-10, and Sun Belt Conferences for autonomous status, they would probably have another thing coming.

......................................................................................................

-



.

Here is the thing. You dont know what you dont know. Before the release of the Boise emails, you were convinced the AAC leadership was doing nothing. Well---it turns out there were talks going on....probably still are talks going on. I suspect if talks are going on----the Boise folks have strict instructions to not use emails to discuss it. As for autonomy---the first step would be to ask the NCAA for the inclusion of the AAC into the autonomy group---and if denied---ask for the detailed criteria for moving to the autonomous group that the AAC failed to meet. Win or lose---you will have your path forward. The AAC has no need to tie their future to the G4.

Finally---lots of change is on the immediate horizon. The "one free transfer" rule has already passed and is now in effect. NIL is coming. NIL laws will take effect THIS SUMMER in at least 5 states regardless of what the NCAA does. And now---we have possible CFP expansion--which could happen sooner than we expect. Now is not the time to make rash decisions. Lots of unknowns. Unless its a sure thing that we know will work logistically---there is no reason to make a rushed move. In other words, the lack of publicly known action doesnt mean nothing is happening or that plans are not being made to move the AAC closer to its goals. It could simply mean that the AAC is waiting to see what the future landscape will look like so they know what type of addition will be the most advantageous school (or schools) to add.
(This post was last modified: 04-24-2021 01:26 PM by Attackcoog.)
04-24-2021 01:07 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Extortion... make the A5 pay more money
(04-24-2021 01:07 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-24-2021 12:44 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(04-24-2021 08:50 AM)JHS55 Wrote:  
(04-23-2021 07:30 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  [quote='JHS55' pid='17396301' dateline='1619216994']
[quote='Attackcoog' pid='17395729' dateline='1619198009']
[quote='jedclampett' pid='17395176' dateline='1619154224']

Let's put it this way:

There are about 130 FBS schools; half are in a cartel known as the "P5."

The other 65 FBS schools are split into 5 conferences and a group of independents.

They need to form their own cartel - - not a "league per se," but a cartel, although it could have a name.

Until they band together, they will continue to be as "screwed" as they have been for the past 7-8 years.

Banding together won't solve the problem, in and of itself, but it is a necessary first step.

Once they band together, they can begin to get somewhere...

.

...with one exception:

The AAC could get somewhere if it finally grows a pair and gets serious about expanding to 14.

Q: Is that likely to happen?

A: If it were likely, it already would have happened by now.

.

Another way to put it is this:

A lot of AAC fans are disenchanted with the failure of the AAC leadership to take direct action to move toward power conference status.

Many of these fans don't even believe that the AAC is serious about trying to become a power conference.

If the AAC doesn't take direct action toward becoming a power conference soon, a lot of AAC fans are going to consider the other possibilities, which could include trying to boost the conference by working together with the fans of the other G5 conferences and the FBS independents to take action.


The AAC can't take their fans for granted for too much longer. More and more AAC fans are starting to become cynical about their purported "strategy," and are starting to look for other ways to move the conference toward autonomous/power conference status. whether independently or in collaboration with the other non-P5 FBS schools.

I can assure you this is the exact opposite of the AAC strategy. The AAC believes it’s best route to success is separating the AAC from the rest of the G5—not joining with the G5 in a cartel that could result in the AAC being permanently chained to the rest of the G5 in a new “FCS” division.

.

Yes, it is definitely the exact opposite of the AAC's strategy, which is based on the argument that the American should be referred to as a "P6," rather than a "G5" conference.

Comissioner Aresco reiterated that point in his recent statement a few weeks ago that he considers it highly important for the AAC to prove that it is a full notch above the other G5 conferences.

As an AAC fan, I would very much like to see the AAC's strategic plan succeed, and that's why I would support replacing UConn with Boise and VCU as soon as humanly possible, followed within the next year by a strong move to expand to 14.

.

The question arises: Why would an AAC fan who supports the movement toward full autonomy and power conference status consider supporting a movement by the 65 non-P5 FBS schools to set up a completely separate FBS "cartel" like the P5?

Here's the rationale:

I. It only makes sense to support the AAC's strategic plan of moving steadily toward autonomous/power conference status if there is some compelling reason to believe that the leadership of the American is ready, willing, and able to do all that is necessary to fully implement that strategic plan, thus raising the stature of the American until it is head-and-shoulders above the other G5 conferences and FBS independents.

II. The only significant moves that the American made toward "P6" status took place several years ago when it expanded from 11 to 12 FB and BB members, with Navy (2015) and Wichita State (2017) joining the conference. Since 2017, the only change in AAC membership was UConn's announcement of their departure in mid-2019.

III. In the 4 years since Wichita Stated joined the conference, and in the 22 months that have elapsed since UConn announced their departure, there has been only one event (the ineffectual, half-hearted attempt to recruit Boise State as a FB-only member) signaling that the leadership of the AAC has had any intention to either replace UConn or expand.

IV. The addition of Boise State - - the only major FBS program with the consistent record of success that would be needed to give the AAC a major boost toward P6 status - - would have signaled that the AAC is fully committed to its strategic plan and would have inspired confidence in its ability to make additional moves toward full "P6" status. The AAC could have done so without increasing travel time or travel costs by limiting the number of cross-time zone basketball and olympic sports match-ups and increasing the ratio of OOC to conference games for these sports, but their unwillingness to do so torpedoed the only available move they could have made to implement their strategic plan.

--By refusing Boise State's request to join as an all-sports member, the AAC shot itself in the foot and signaled that it is not committed to make the kinds of sacrifices that would be necessary in order to become an autonomous/power conference.

--By refusing to reconsider Boise's request for full membership, and by failing to make any other moves to replace UConn in either FB or BB/olympic sports, the AAC has proven that it lacks the far-sightedness and the willingness to make any significant move toward becoming an autonomous/power conference.

--Moreover, Commissioner Aresco made it clear in one of his recent remarks that the conference doesn't even have a clear strategy in place for moving toward "P6" status.

V. In summary, UConn's (FB & BB) departure negated the additions of Navy FB and Wichita State BB, leaving the AAC with 11 members - - no more than it had in 2014, its second year of existence. The additions of Navy and Wichita State have not made up for the losses of Louisville and UConn, and the America has made no net movement toward power conference status since its inception.

--The P5 conferences have all had an average of 3 teams in the Final AP Top 25 during the eight years of the AAC's existence, and they and the Big East have all sent at least seven BB teams to one or more NCAA tournaments. If the AAC were really a "P6" power conference, it would attained a similar level of success. However, the American has fallen short in both respects, with an average of 2 Final AP Top 25 football teams per season (33% lower than the ACC), and it has never sent more than 4 teams to the NCAA tournament (43% lower than the PAC-12).

--The only real chance that the AAC has ever had to implement its strategic plan went down the tubes when the conference refused to extend full membership to Boise State, and now, the Commissioner has admitted that the conference no longer has even a clear strategy, much less a clear-cut plan to attain "P6" status.

VI. Unless and until the American takes some meaningful step toward "P6" status - - not in the form of vague promises or intentions - - but an actual announcement of a FB or BB/olympic sports school that is joining the AAC - - there will be no reason to take any AAC statement about being a potential P6 conference seriously.

--With the AAC, despite Commissioner Aresco's best efforts, it has been "all talk and no action." Not only that, but the AAC schools have had trouble achieving a consensus about anything of importance through the years:

--Due to four AAC schools' Cinderella fantasy that they might be swooped away by a P5 conference one day, the conference didn't get the kind of broadcasting revenue that ESPN would have provided if some of them had been willing to sign a broadcasting Grant of Rights.

VII. Fortunately, if the AAC leadership continues to lack the will and determination to drive toward power conference status on its own, there might be another way for the conference to attain autonomous and power conference status - - by doing so by working cooperatively with the MWC, MAC, C-USA, football independents, and Sun Belt conferences, as well as some of the top non-P5 basketball conferences (Big East, WCC, A-10, MVC, etc.) and taking the same steps, collectively that the P5 conferences took when they became a cartel, to set up a collegiate athletics cartel much like the P5 cartel.

VIII. This wouldn't necessarily be an "either/or" situation, because the efforts to become an autonomous/power conference and to work cooperatively toward setting up an alternative to the P5 cartel could go on at the same time, and would not be mutually exclusive.

--If the AAC wants to, it can continue to put most of its effort into becoming a P6 conference, head and shoulders above the other G5 conferences.

--All it would have to do to be part of a group effort to set up an alternative P5-like cartel would be to have periodic meetings and, eventuallyl, to enter into cooperative negotiations alongside the leadership of the other conferences when the time comes to negotiate for autonomous status from the NCAA.

--Like the P5 conference, the AAC would continue to have their own independent broadcasting agreements.

--Even if the G5 and FBS independents do eventually succeed in establishing an alternative to the P5 cartel and achieving autonomous status like the P5 conferences, nothing would prevent the AAC from continuing to strive to be the top FB/BB conference of the bunch, and to be just as good as the top-tier P5 conferences.

VIII. In summary, the AAC would have much to gain and nothing to lose by (A) continuing to strive independently for "P6" status, and (B) working cooperatively with the other non-P5 conferences and schools to set up a P5-like cartel.

--Right now, considering the fact that the P5 schools only achieved autonomous status by threatening to set up an alternative to the NCAA, it isn't necessarily clear that the conference will be able to achieve autonomous status on its own.

--If the NCAA (urged on, perhaps, by the P5 for reasons of their own) were to refuse to grant autonomous status, the AAC's only chance to achieve autonomous status from the NCAA might be to do so as part of a collective effort, alongside the 64 other non-P5 FBS schools and 50+ Big East, WCC, A-10, and MVC schools.

.....................................................................................................

As the old adage goes, "There's more than one way to skin a cat."

The American has been saying for years that it wants to be considered a full-fledged, autonomous, "P6" power conference, but with only 11 teams, no net increase in membership since 2014, no candidates in sight with which to replace UConn or to begin an expansion process, and not even a clear cut idea about how to proceed, it may not have the gumption to get there on its own.

The American may - - much like the fabled Pinocchio - - need some outside assistance, but in this case, with no "blue fairy" to avail it, the outside assistance might have to come in the form of an alliance with 100+ schools from the top non-P5 FB and BB conferences in the nation.

If anyone were to suppose that the NCAA would turn down a joint request (or demand) from the AAC, Big East, FB indies, MWC, WCC, C-USA, MVC, MAC, Atlantic-10, and Sun Belt Conferences for autonomous status, they would probably have another thing coming.

......................................................................................................

-



.

Here is the thing. You dont know what you dont know. Before the release of the Boise emails, you were convinced the AAC leadership was doing nothing. Well---it turns out there were talks going on....probably still are talks going on. I suspect if talks are going on----the Boise folks have strict instructions to not use emails to discuss it. As for autonomy---the first step would be to ask the NCAA for the inclusion of the AAC into the autonomy group---and if denied---ask for the detailed criteria for moving to the autonomous group that the AAC failed to meet. Win or lose---you will have your path forward. The AAC has no need to tie their future to the G4.

Finally---lots of change is on the immediate horizon. The "one free transfer" rule has already passed and is now in effect. NIL is coming. NIL laws will take effect THIS SUMMER in at least 5 states regardless of what the NCAA does. And now---we have possible CFP expansion--which could happen sooner than we expect. Now is not the time to make rash decisions. Lots of unknowns. Unless its a sure thing that we know will work logistically---there is no reason to make a rushed move. In other words, the lack of publicly known action doesnt mean nothing is happening or that plans are not being made to move the AAC closer to its goals. It could simply mean that the AAC is waiting to see what the future landscape will look like so they know what type of addition will be the most advantageous school (or schools) to add.


.

That's very true. The 2020 discussions between Boise State and the AAC came as a complete surprise to me, and it's possible that there may be some other encouraging developments behind the scenes, such as continuing or renewed talks with Boise State (which mightn't come as a complete shock, since both parties did show interest in the FB move).

I certainly hope so!

The main things that caused me to start losing hope were (a) the announcements and indications that the AAC had no near-term interest in replacing UConn, (b) the failure to make any moves to replace UConn before the Boise St. news broke, © the decision to refuse full membership for Boise State, which I consider a major blunder since Boise seems to be the keystone to western expansion, (d) the conference's apparent lack of interest in adding a basketball school such as VCU or Dayton, and (e) the Commissioner's statement - - after the Boise story broke and after being discouraged by the CFP committee's re-assertions of support for the 4-team CFP playoff model - - that the conference doesn't even have an effective strategy in place for moving toward autonomous/power conference status. In addition, I'm very concerned that the top 2 or 3 potential BB candidates, such as VCU or Dayton might get scooped up by the Big East before the AAC leadership develops the gumption to bring them aboard.

It wouldn't take much to inspire me at this point - - some more encouraging statements by the Commissioner, backed up with some actual indications that he is talking with other schools that have shown interest in joining. That alone might be enough to make me start believing that Commissioner Aresco might still be able to achieve P6 status before he retires.

I don't know if this idea of setting up an alternative to the P5 cartel will go anywhere or not, but it is an intriguing idea, and if the P5 decides to play hardball, they might be able to strong-arm the NCAA into forcing the AAC to go to court to fight for autonomous status (which is something the conference seems too timid to even contemplate). Thus, with no "Gepetto's blue fairy" in sight, and with no potential harm to the AAC in a sort of counter-P5 cartel movement being in the cards, the idea of discussing a potential movement in that direction may continue to be of interest.

Nevertheless, my main sympathies definitely remain with the AAC and my alma mater's teams in the conference, and it would be thrilling to see Commissioner Aresco standing up at the podium one day to announce the next addition to the AAC's family of schools.

.



.
(This post was last modified: 04-24-2021 02:31 PM by jedclampett.)
04-24-2021 01:59 PM
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4xGrad Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Extortion... make the A5 pay more money
My guess is that this last year the AAC tried to get BSU to join in football only. They would then look at picking up a strong BB school. This would have been a very good move on the part of the AAC. It would have added a lot of strength to both FB and BB. They knew Boise was frustrated with the MWC. How frustrated? good question.

They would not know if BSU was willing and able to make the jump unless they tried. I think they tried and it did not work out. I think BSU's frustration with the MWC just did not out weigh the options available (or not available) to move the rest of the sports.

Guessing again... I think the only option to pick up BSU is all sports. So, time for reevaluation. How best to move forward with that? Is the best way forward with a 12 team conference or a 14 team conference with divisions? Go to 12 teams now with the long term goal of 14? Go to 14 now? Stay at 11 and patiently look at future moves?

Just like we are having these conversations I will bet that the conference presidents are having these conversations. I bet they are talking to the TV networks. We have reports that Aresco is talking to schools, at the very least BYU.

I would hope BSU is trying to help out and convince BYU to make the jump. I suspect the BYU will not because of pride but it is worth a shot. If they did it would be beneficial to EVERYONE in my opinion, but convincing the powers that be at BYU will not be easy and will probably take a lot of time to even have a chance at being successful. Do you take the time to try? Do you just give up and try something else?

There is a clock. The AAC needs to position itself as well as possible before the 2025.... probably before 2024.

So what will their move be? It will be based on discussions we are not privy to, but will hear small rumors and snippets about. In the mean time we are left to read tea leaves.
04-24-2021 02:10 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Extortion... make the A5 pay more money
(04-24-2021 02:10 PM)4xGrad Wrote:  My guess is that this last year the AAC tried to get BSU to join in football only. They would then look at picking up a strong BB school. This would have been a very good move on the part of the AAC. It would have added a lot of strength to both FB and BB. They knew Boise was frustrated with the MWC. How frustrated? good question.

They would not know if BSU was willing and able to make the jump unless they tried. I think they tried and it did not work out. I think BSU's frustration with the MWC just did not out weigh the options available (or not available) to move the rest of the sports.

Guessing again... I think the only option to pick up BSU is all sports. So, time for reevaluation. How best to move forward with that? Is the best way forward with a 12 team conference or a 14 team conference with divisions? Go to 12 teams now with the long term goal of 14? Go to 14 now? Stay at 11 and patiently look at future moves?

Just like we are having these conversations I will bet that the conference presidents are having these conversations. I bet they are talking to the TV networks. We have reports that Aresco is talking to schools, at the very least BYU.

I would hope BSU is trying to help out and convince BYU to make the jump. I suspect the BYU will not because of pride but it is worth a shot. If they did it would be beneficial to EVERYONE in my opinion, but convincing the powers that be at BYU will not be easy and will probably take a lot of time to even have a chance at being successful. Do you take the time to try? Do you just give up and try something else?

There is a clock. The AAC needs to position itself as well as possible before the 2025.... probably before 2024.

So what will their move be? It will be based on discussions we are not privy to, but will hear small rumors and snippets about. In the mean time we are left to read tea leaves.

.

I suspect that your hunches and AttackCoug's are both right about many of these things. For example, it seems very possible that the BSU-AAC discussions have continued.

It also seems quite likely that the passage of time is an important consideration, with the possibility of a 2025 or 2026 realignment looming like a larger and larger version of the fabled sword of Damocles over everyone's heads. No one knows which - if any - conference(s) might be affected, but the fears are great enough that the AAC and MWC have reason to be concerned about losing members.

One of the reasons why an AAC expansion to 14 would make so much sense (beyond the obvious benefits of becoming an instant power conference) is that, if the Big 12 were to scoop up 2 or 3 AAC teams, the conference would be left in much better shape with 11 or 12 members than with only 9 or 10. A 12-team AAC, shorn of Houston and Memphis, but with Boise, BYU, Air Force and the rest could still have a reasonable shot at redeveloping into a power conference, but a 9 or 10-member AAC might need divine intervention to become a P6 before the end of the 21st century.

.

Like you, I would be surprised if Boise would go for FB-only membership unless they get an unexpected invitation from the WCC or something like that. I had been thinking that the WAC might be acceptable to them, but you nixed that idea even though they'll have two fairly good BB programs that Boise could compete with for NCAA bids, but also because their travel expenses in the WAC would probably be nearly the same as they are in the MWC or would be in the AAC - - but without the $1.5 to $2 million of revenue from the MWC or AAC.

Would the AAC consider extending an offer of all-sports membership if, say BYU and a MWC team were to join for all-sports? Possibly, since the 3 westernmost BB teams could play each other and play most of their other conference games in the AAC West division. Their views on this topic may be an example of a "known unknown."

However, I would like to suggest a type of compromise proposal that might be considered acceptable by both parties:

......................................................................................................

This idea might not go anywhere, but it might be worth mentioning as a possible way to persuade Boise St. to sign on the dotted line:

It might be worthwhile to propose an option such as granting Boise St. a full membership on a trial basis for 2-3 seasons, at first, with certain stipulations.

For example, if the conference is unwilling to consider expanding beyond 14 FB/BB members, and if two all-sports members are approved by the conference, and if a BB school such as VCU becomes a member, that would leave the AAC with 14 FB schools and 15 BB schools.

To deal with that kind of scenario, if it were ever to arise, the contract could stipulate that, at that point, the conference Presidents would have the option to modify Boise's membership from all-sports to FB-only membership.

If the contract were to stipulate that it would be up to the conference to decide whether to exercise that option or not - - at some hypothetical date that might never come - - it might not have much reason to cause Boise significant concern, since such a scenario might never unfold, and even if it ever were to unfold, things might be different then, and Boise might have enough friends in the conference to win such a vote.

Example: Although there was some strong opposition and fierce debate about the proposal to add the trio of Tulane, ECU, and Tulsa in 2014, the conference adjusted quickly to their addition, and apparently, there has never been a strong move to replace any of them or modify their memberships since then.

It's just an idea, but Boise might get a majority vote for a sort of trial all-sports membership from the AAC Presidents with the option to revisit such a decision under certain highly-specified conditions, and Boise might agree to it, based on the assumptions that: (a) the specified conditions might never come about, or a motion to discuss the idea of modifying their membership might not pass, and (b) even if it did, the conference might be highly disinclined to modify their status for fear of losing their FB program.

Not sure if this will go anywhere, but if anyone reads it, they might want to pass it along. It's the kind of idea that could be tweaked, with various other conditions to enhance it further.

......................................................................................................

p.s. You've written that you wouldn't expect Air Force to join the AAC, since they apparently rejected an invitation to join the Big East at one point. If BYU and Boise were both to join, which MWC school would you expect to be most likely to be the third western team to join in a 14-team expanded AAC?

Most AAC fans have put Air Force and SDSU near the top of their lists, but SDSU's AD made a pretty unequivocal statement to the effect that "even if San Diego State had any interest in joining the AAC" (which they apparently don't), "they wouldn't even consider joining for FB-only." That isn't exactly the kind of response that would make anyone expect that SDSU would show much interest in joining under any circumstances.

CSU is the #3 school that AAC fans have envisioned as a possible all-sports or FB member, due largely to their relative proximity and some degree of national recognition as a major State University in an important U.S. State, not too far from Denver. However, their teams have had very limited success in the past decade, overall.

Most of the other MWC schools, such as Hawaii, Fresno St., SJSU, and the two Nevada schools are either as distant as Boise, or have had much less athletic success and haven't had strong viewership numbers (e.g., New Mexico, Wyoming).

Hardly anyone has mentioned Utah State, but I could see them as being a good addition, alongside Boise and BYU, because of their proximity, their existing rivalries, and the fact that Utah State is close enough to Salt Lake City to generate viewership there.

Their FB/BB teams did nothing in 2020-21 (mulligan), but four of their FB teams since 2011 won 9, 10, or 11 games, and they played in 8 bowl games between 2011 and 2019.

In addition, the Utah State basketball teams had considerable success in 2018-19 (28-7; NCAA team; finished in the Final AP Top 25), 2019-20 (26-8; NCAA-qualified team; nationally-ranked during mid-season), and 2020-21 (20-9; NCAA team; finished in the Final AP Top 25).

Moreover, Utah State has had a strong basketball legacy. Fifteen Utah State teams finished their seasons with 21+ wins in the 20 seasons between 2001-02 and 2020-21; 9 of these teams played in or qualified to play in the NCAA tournament; 4 played in the NIT, and one advanced to the finals of the 2012 CIT.

It would be a close call, but I'm guessing that, with their track record of football and basketball success, Utah State and Boise State might be able to secure invitations to join the AAC as all-sports members as part of a three-school deal that would bring BYU and Boise State into the conference. Whether or not a potential Utah State membership would be enough to sway BYU in the AAC's direction is something I don't know enough to predict. My guess would be that, if anything could sway BYU as part of a three-school deal, it might be more likely to be Utah State, SDSU, or Air Force, as opposed to any of the other MWC schools, with the possible exception of CSU.

Would be interested in knowing if that would make sense from a western Idahoan's standpoint.

......................................................................................................

.
(This post was last modified: 04-24-2021 03:50 PM by jedclampett.)
04-24-2021 02:58 PM
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BigHouston Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Extortion... make the A5 pay more money
Man I hope Mike Aresco and co. never fall, hit their heads and suggest such ridiculous proposal. Unreal
04-24-2021 03:22 PM
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4xGrad Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Extortion... make the A5 pay more money
If I were in a position to council BSU to consider this as an option I would tell them no way no how. The potential risk is too great. You have to balance the risk with the reward. While the reward is nice, the risk is that you are homeless, destroying everything you have ever built.
04-24-2021 03:26 PM
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Post: #56
RE: Extortion... make the A5 pay more money
(04-24-2021 03:26 PM)4xGrad Wrote:  If I were in a position to council BSU to consider this as an option I would tell them no way no how. The potential risk is too great. You have to balance the risk with the reward. While the reward is nice, the risk is that you are homeless, destroying everything you have ever built.

Ok. Thanks for reading/responding.

I myself would consider the risk minimal, if the contractual conditions for a future vote to modify their status were defined so narrowly that it would be extremely unlikely that those conditions would ever be met.

In fact, I can hardly imagine a motion even passing to take such a vote if they were to add Boise (all-sports) and VCU basketball, and then add BYU and another MWC team 2-3 years later. They would have 14 FB teams and 15 BB teams, and no one in their right mind would want to risk losing Boise FB by supporting a motion to discuss modifying Boise's status to FB-only.

However, I "grok" the fact that, if the AAC and MWC were both out of the picture, Boise's best options at that point might be to join the WAC or Big West and make their way forward as a FB independent for a few years, as BYU and the other indies have done. The other option being to play in the West Division of the C-USA (4 schools in Texas, 2 schools on the Mississippi River). I honestly wouldn't expect those scenarios to destroy everything Boise athletics have built, but I do understand why the prospect would be considered so utterly unacceptable from their standpoint that they wouldn't even want to take the chance, no matter how small.

Truthfully, there should be no need to come up with intricate contractual arrangements that might be mutually acceptable. As I see it, their refusal to grant a full membership to Boise has proven that the AAC leadership ought to be scheduled for radical surgery - - a collective brain transplant - - (not 11 craniotomies, but) total mind & body replacements (i.e., 11 new university Presidents).

.
04-24-2021 04:32 PM
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Post: #57
RE: Extortion... make the A5 pay more money
(04-24-2021 03:22 PM)BigHouston Wrote:  Man I hope Mike Aresco and co. never fall, hit their heads and suggest such ridiculous proposal. Unreal

I'm certainly glad that I didn't ask you for your opinion!
04-24-2021 04:33 PM
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Post: #58
RE: Extortion... make the A5 pay more money
(04-24-2021 04:33 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(04-24-2021 03:22 PM)BigHouston Wrote:  Man I hope Mike Aresco and co. never fall, hit their heads and suggest such ridiculous proposal. Unreal

I'm certainly glad that I didn't ask you for your opinion!

lol
04-24-2021 06:28 PM
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Post: #59
RE: Extortion... make the A5 pay more money
(04-24-2021 04:32 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(04-24-2021 03:26 PM)4xGrad Wrote:  If I were in a position to council BSU to consider this as an option I would tell them no way no how. The potential risk is too great. You have to balance the risk with the reward. While the reward is nice, the risk is that you are homeless, destroying everything you have ever built.

Ok. Thanks for reading/responding.

I myself would consider the risk minimal, if the contractual conditions for a future vote to modify their status were defined so narrowly that it would be extremely unlikely that those conditions would ever be met.

In fact, I can hardly imagine a motion even passing to take such a vote if they were to add Boise (all-sports) and VCU basketball, and then add BYU and another MWC team 2-3 years later. They would have 14 FB teams and 15 BB teams, and no one in their right mind would want to risk losing Boise FB by supporting a motion to discuss modifying Boise's status to FB-only.

However, I "grok" the fact that, if the AAC and MWC were both out of the picture, Boise's best options at that point might be to join the WAC or Big West and make their way forward as a FB independent for a few years, as BYU and the other indies have done. The other option being to play in the West Division of the C-USA (4 schools in Texas, 2 schools on the Mississippi River). I honestly wouldn't expect those scenarios to destroy everything Boise athletics have built, but I do understand why the prospect would be considered so utterly unacceptable from their standpoint that they wouldn't even want to take the chance, no matter how small.

Truthfully, there should be no need to come up with intricate contractual arrangements that might be mutually acceptable. As I see it, their refusal to grant a full membership to Boise has proven that the AAC leadership ought to be scheduled for radical surgery - - a collective brain transplant - - (not 11 craniotomies, but) total mind & body replacements (i.e., 11 new university Presidents).

.

To Be honest with you Jed, I think right now BSU is so disappointed with the MWC they would have accepted a FB only invite if there was an ACCEPTABLE key word here... ACCEPTABLE landing spot for the other sports. But there was not, for what ever reasons... These are guesses on my part. So to put a condition in that allowed the AAC to accept all sports on a probational status... what does BSU do if the AAC says well we tried but no... Where does the rest of BSU sports go? There is currently no ACCEPTABLE landing spot. This is not an issue of second choice landing spot, this is an issue of no ACCEPTABLE landing spot.

So... BSU takes it's FB and goes home? To where? don't fool yourself into thinking the MWC would have anything to do with us no matter how valuable the football might be. Right now they are trying to break legal contracts with us because it gives us an "unfair advantage" their words not ours.

If one side commits the other side needs to commit. We do it or we do not.

BYU did go independent. their first several years were really tough for scheduling. They have slowly and steadily improved. They also have a natural built in advantage BSU does not. Some Athletes choose BYU for reasons beyond the ability to compete at a given level, beyond conference titles etcetera. It was hard on BYU. I think it would be even harder on BSU.

As far as other schools... Air force would be great if you could get them. Again, an academy that has certain built in advantages and disadvantages. I think someone needs to judge their interest one to one... it is just my guess, based on a gut instinct that they probably would not be receptive, but I have been wrong many times in my life.

Listen closely to what the SDSU AD said.... NO TO FB ONLY... very specific. Remember he has to work with the other schools and they remember a time where BSU and SDSU had to be coaxed back. The AD does not need the other ADs questioning their loyalty. Maybe they do think no way no how... I do not know.

If you were to get BYU forget about Utah State.... Utah State would not be on my list for many reasons but I am not making the choices. Colorado state, MBB is good and the football has not lived up to potential. They have been investing heavily as of late but I am not impressed with the coaching hire, in fact not many of their coaching hires over the last couple of decades. But who knows, Like I said I have been wrong many times and I hope I am wrong again about their latest coaching hire.

I do think you are going to see a resurging BSU with our latest coaching hire. I hope the team and coaches have enough time to meld well before the UCF game come this September. It will be an interesting measuring stick.

Football is a game of emotion, attitude and momentum. (at least in my opinion.) I have NEVER seen it so high as I am seeing it now. In saying that I have been here before we won the FCS (1AA) championship. I remember when university of Idaho was our BIG brother. now they are the little brother we don't even want to talk to.
04-24-2021 06:30 PM
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Post: #60
RE: Extortion... make the A5 pay more money
(04-24-2021 06:30 PM)4xGrad Wrote:  
(04-24-2021 04:32 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(04-24-2021 03:26 PM)4xGrad Wrote:  If I were in a position to council BSU to consider this as an option I would tell them no way no how. The potential risk is too great. You have to balance the risk with the reward. While the reward is nice, the risk is that you are homeless, destroying everything you have ever built.

Ok. Thanks for reading/responding.

I myself would consider the risk minimal, if the contractual conditions for a future vote to modify their status were defined so narrowly that it would be extremely unlikely that those conditions would ever be met.

In fact, I can hardly imagine a motion even passing to take such a vote if they were to add Boise (all-sports) and VCU basketball, and then add BYU and another MWC team 2-3 years later. They would have 14 FB teams and 15 BB teams, and no one in their right mind would want to risk losing Boise FB by supporting a motion to discuss modifying Boise's status to FB-only.

However, I "grok" the fact that, if the AAC and MWC were both out of the picture, Boise's best options at that point might be to join the WAC or Big West and make their way forward as a FB independent for a few years, as BYU and the other indies have done. The other option being to play in the West Division of the C-USA (4 schools in Texas, 2 schools on the Mississippi River). I honestly wouldn't expect those scenarios to destroy everything Boise athletics have built, but I do understand why the prospect would be considered so utterly unacceptable from their standpoint that they wouldn't even want to take the chance, no matter how small.

Truthfully, there should be no need to come up with intricate contractual arrangements that might be mutually acceptable. As I see it, their refusal to grant a full membership to Boise has proven that the AAC leadership ought to be scheduled for radical surgery - - a collective brain transplant - - (not 11 craniotomies, but) total mind & body replacements (i.e., 11 new university Presidents).

.

To Be honest with you Jed, I think right now BSU is so disappointed with the MWC they would have accepted a FB only invite if there was an ACCEPTABLE key word here... ACCEPTABLE landing spot for the other sports. But there was not, for what ever reasons... These are guesses on my part. So to put a condition in that allowed the AAC to accept all sports on a probational status... what does BSU do if the AAC says well we tried but no... Where does the rest of BSU sports go? There is currently no ACCEPTABLE landing spot. This is not an issue of second choice landing spot, this is an issue of no ACCEPTABLE landing spot.

So... BSU takes it's FB and goes home? To where? don't fool yourself into thinking the MWC would have anything to do with us no matter how valuable the football might be. Right now they are trying to break legal contracts with us because it gives us an "unfair advantage" their words not ours.

If one side commits the other side needs to commit. We do it or we do not.

BYU did go independent. their first several years were really tough for scheduling. They have slowly and steadily improved. They also have a natural built in advantage BSU does not. Some Athletes choose BYU for reasons beyond the ability to compete at a given level, beyond conference titles etcetera. It was hard on BYU. I think it would be even harder on BSU.

As far as other schools... Air force would be great if you could get them. Again, an academy that has certain built in advantages and disadvantages. I think someone needs to judge their interest one to one... it is just my guess, based on a gut instinct that they probably would not be receptive, but I have been wrong many times in my life.

Listen closely to what the SDSU AD said.... NO TO FB ONLY... very specific. Remember he has to work with the other schools and they remember a time where BSU and SDSU had to be coaxed back. The AD does not need the other ADs questioning their loyalty. Maybe they do think no way no how... I do not know.

If you were to get BYU forget about Utah State.... Utah State would not be on my list for many reasons but I am not making the choices. Colorado state, MBB is good and the football has not lived up to potential. They have been investing heavily as of late but I am not impressed with the coaching hire, in fact not many of their coaching hires over the last couple of decades. But who knows, Like I said I have been wrong many times and I hope I am wrong again about their latest coaching hire.

I do think you are going to see a resurging BSU with our latest coaching hire. I hope the team and coaches have enough time to meld well before the UCF game come this September. It will be an interesting measuring stick.

Football is a game of emotion, attitude and momentum. (at least in my opinion.) I have NEVER seen it so high as I am seeing it now. In saying that I have been here before we won the FCS (1AA) championship. I remember when university of Idaho was our BIG brother. now they are the little brother we don't even want to talk to.

These are all interesting points.

I really hope Boise is able to play in the AAC, since it would be so beneficial to both parties.

It's clear that travel time/costs needn't block a full membership, since they could be cut even if 1 or more western teams such as Boise were to join.

In addition, AttackCoug has made a very convincing case against the argument that granting full membership to Boise would make it impossible to sign a top basketball school such as VCU. His point is that there would be no disadvantage to the conference if it were to end up, accidentally, with 14 FB and 15 BB schools, and he is 100% correct about that.

So we have addressed the two major objections to adding Boise to the AAC as a full member effectively: problems of travel time/costs, and the problem of having more BB than FB schools.

Let me add this point: Some have mentioned another objection, which is that they're opposed to any constraints, such as divisional scheduling that would limit how many home/away series there could be in an enduring way - - yet at the same time, they're in favor of adding western teams. In other words - - they're trying to have their cake and eat it too.

The basic response to that argument is that the AAC can't have it both ways. It can't become a power conference without adding western teams, and it can't add western teams without shifting to a system that would only permit a limited number of conference games involving home/away series with nearby - as opposed to very distant - teams.

Some acknowledge the need for such limits, but will still object to the rigidity of the limits that would be placed on conference home/away series because there are certain home/away series that they strongly desire to play.

On this point, there is another solution: Part of the overall change in scheduling would be an increase in the ratio of OOC to AAC conference games (AAC teams would play 16, rather than 18 or 20 conference games and 15, rather than 11 or 13 OOC games). One way to allow teams to play more home/away series with specific AAC teams would be to grant them the option of using some of their OOC games to turn some of their single game match-ups into home/away match-ups with AAC opponents.

Let's say the folks at Cincy want to play home/away series with Houston. They would be allowed to contact the folks at Houston and if both parties were to agree, they could play a home/away series in one or more upcoming seasons. The first of these games would count as an official conference game that would count in the conference standings; the second (negotiated) game would be treated just like any ordinary OOC OOC game, and it would have no impact on the conference standings.

That might not satisfy everyone, but at least it would make it possible for most of the AAC schools to schedule some home/away series with some of the conference teams that they'd like to play more than once per year.

Hopefully, each of the objections have been addressed effectively that there will be a majority vote in favor of granting full membership to Boise State. There might be some possibility that certain AAC Presidents might not want Boise to join the conference badly enough to be willing to make any changes of any kind, or that some might vote "no" because they are simply unwilling to schedule any games that would require flights across more than one time zone. In such cases, perhaps all we can really do is hope that their peers on the AAC leadership council of Presidents or external pressure on behalf of adding Boise State from their fan bases will be able to persuade them to change their minds.

This just one AAC fan's take on the situation, but it may signal the possibility that that most of the objections can be overcome.

.
04-24-2021 08:21 PM
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