On April 7, the USS John Paul Jones apparently conducted a Freedom of Navigation Operation (FONOP) 130 miles inside India's exclusive economic zone. What?

To those not familiar with the term, a FONOP consists of sending a military ship or aircraft inside another nation's claimed exclusive economic zone without prior diplomatic clearance, as a way of saying "This isn't really yours. We have the right to come and go as we please." Russia routinely does it to Alaska and NATO countries. It creates a low level diplomatic incident of sorts.

Now, as a retired naval officer, I question the utility of FONOPs. I don't really see what they accomplish. But why in the name of all that is holy are we running a FONOP against someone who is supposed to be an ally, and potentially a very useful one against China?

I can only come up with two explanations:
1) Our capitulation to China is complete, and so we are happy pissing off India.
2) Our seamanship has gotten so bad the we don't even know where we are, and this story was ginned up to cover a major navigational screw-up.

Either explanation is both believable and alarming.

https://www.realcleardefense.com/article...73525.html

Quite alarming. India is much closer to our own value system than China ever will be.

I'm hoping......


..........................HOPING

This is the Biden Admin's attempt to say "see, we do it to everybody."


Have we FONOP'd China since mid-January?

This is disturbing

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

Thank god we got those interventionalist/warhawk republicans out of office... ;-)

Very simple principle of international diplomacy, "Treat your friends better than you treat your enemies."

We clearly are not doing that, and this is just one more example.

I truly think that it is very possible that our seamanship has gotten so bad that we didn't know where we were, and cooked this up as an excuse. But it seems to me that a better result in that case would have just been to admit privately to India that we had a major screw-up. But 7th Fleet is not going to put itself on report.

Quote:This freedom of navigation operation (“FONOP”) upheld the rights, freedoms, and lawful uses of the sea recognized in international law by challenging India’s excessive maritime claims.

U.S. Forces operate in the Indo-Pacific region on a daily basis. All operations are designed in accordance with international law and demonstrate that the United States will fly, sail and operate wherever international law allows.

We conduct routine and regular Freedom of Navigation Operations (FONOPs), as we have done in the past and will continue to in the future. FONOPs are not about one country, nor are they about making political statements.

https://www.c7f.navy.mil/Media/News/Disp...operation/

Well as long as the 7th Fleet issued a press release, I guess there’s nothing to see here.

As a retired Navy officer, I hate to say it, but the current version of the Navy sucks.

We have $14B aircraft carriers that can't launch or recover or arm aircraft, and their toilets don't work.
We have a fleet of $800MM "Littoral Combat Ships" that cannot do anything related to the littorals or combat.
We are getting ready to replace 14 Ohio-class SSBNs with 24 missile silos (20 operable per treaty limitations) that cost us $2B each ($3.3B in 2021 dollars) with 12 Columbias that cost $9+B each and have fewer (16) missile silos.
We have only four SSGNs (guided missile subs) with 616 missiles total as our primary conventional strike platform, and we are getting rid of those with no replacements until the mid-2030s.
We have an amphibious force build around $3.8B LHAs/LHDs, ships from which conducting a proper amphibious assault is impossible. In response, the Marines are getting rid of tanks and artillery and trying to find a mission that a bunch of Boy Scouts with BB guns can accomplish.
We have a seriously depleted anti-submarine warfare (ASW) capability, and virtually no mine countermeasures (MCM) or naval gunfire support (NGFS) capability. We have no carrier based ASW/patrol capability, and no plans to redevelop one.
Russia and China both have supersonic/hypersonic intermediate range cruise/ballistic anti-ship/anti-surface missiles, and we have none, nor any apparent plans to develop them.
We have had two destroyers collide with merchant ships in open oceans, and one run aground in front of the Honolulu airport.
But I'll bet their sensitivity training is 4.0, and that they can all sing, "Kum ba ya."

And we are running around doing FONOPs against the one country that it is probably most important of all that we cultivate as an ally. And issuing a press release to brag about it. This should have been handled with a very private apology to India and some admonishment to whoever is responsible. This is the kind of thing that should cause a loss of confidence in ability to command, not placing a captured AK-47 on a plaque in the mess decks.

I really don't know WTF they are trying to accomplish, but building and maintaining a fleet that can win a peer war or two is obviously not it. I don't know whether it is more disconcerting or depressing.

Are there any former allies of the US the Sniff administration isn't sh*tting on as a way to show his loyalty to China or Islamic terrorists?

This administration is doing everything it can to increase our vulnerabilities and decrease our capabilities. Might as well put out a welcoming mat in Chinese at the front door of the White House.

(04-20-2021 11:02 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  This administration is doing everything it can to increase our vulnerabilities and decrease our capabilities. Might as well put out a welcoming mat in Chinese at the front door of the White House.

Obama 2.0 policies at work.

Are the waters claimed by India recognized by the international community?

(04-20-2021 11:23 AM)VA49er Wrote:  Are the waters claimed by India recognized by the international community?

Some are, some aren’t.

Quote:Monday, during an appearance on Fox News Channel’s “Fox News Primetime,” Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) criticized President Joe Biden’s approach to foreign policy on both the Russia and China fronts.

Graham argued no one was “afraid” of Biden, which made the country “dangerous.”

“Well, the problem is that Putin’s looking at Biden through a bigger lens,” he said. “We’re withdrawing from Afghanistan against sound military advice. We’re trying to get back into the Iranian nuclear agreement, and the Iranians are threatening to enrich at 60%. You need 90% to get a bomb. The Chinese are pushing us around out in Asia. The border is completely out of control.”

“So, what Putin’s looking at is, in his mind, a weak adversary,” Graham continued. “What did Putin say when Biden called him a killer? The next time we talk, I want it to be on live TV. Meet me there, because I don’t think you can stand up to me. So, this overall weakness is probably going to be a death sentence for this man because nobody in Russia is afraid of Joe Biden. Nobody in the world is afraid of Joe Biden. And that’s dangerous for us here at home.”

Link

(04-20-2021 11:32 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(04-20-2021 11:23 AM)VA49er Wrote:  Are the waters claimed by India recognized by the international community?

Some are, some aren’t.

Well, if it occured in waters not reognized by the international community then I don't see the issue. If it did, then, yea, that's messed up.

In 2018, we conducted FONOP operations against 26 countries. Including Japan, the UAE, and 2 NATO allies (Albania and Slovenia).

We do this to everyone. It puts the world on notice that we can and will go anywhere we damn please unless you have a valid territorial claim. I'm ok with that.

Doing a FONOP with allies, if their leadership is complicit, is a great way to test the military readiness of an ally. I'd like to think that was a motive, but I doubt it. Poor education leads to poor leadership. A loss of ideology leads to a loss of direction. And the failure to see moles within our government is killing us. But since the directors of the CIA / FBI / HSA and others are congressionally approved appointees, and ranking Admirals and Generals are as well essentially since Congress approves their promotion to oversight positions, and since Congress is controlled by Corporate lobby money, you see what you get. The greed of America's major global conglomerates is killing us, and has permitted our adversaries in the name of trade and profit to sabotage us.

(04-20-2021 07:24 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Quite alarming. India is much closer to our own value system than China ever will be.

Which isnt saying much at all. I think they are in a head to head competition.

India has more slaves than any other country in the world, estimated around 26million. While they use different words and keep it quiet, it is there non-the-less, as well as their "caste" system that may, once again, be politically incorrect to talk about, but it is there non-the-less.

In the running for one of the worst countries on the planet.

(04-20-2021 01:44 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(04-20-2021 07:24 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Quite alarming. India is much closer to our own value system than China ever will be.

Which isnt saying much at all. I think they are in a head to head competition.

India has more slaves than any other country in the world, estimated around 26million. While they use different words and keep it quiet, it is there non-the-less, as well as their "caste" system that may, once again, be politically incorrect to talk about, but it is there non-the-less.

In the running for one of the worst countries on the planet.

Yeah.

Also, India's current President is a Hindu nationalist. Not exactly a pro-Western guy.

His party has successfully outlawed cattle slaughterhouses in much of the country, decimating Christian and Muslim beef farmers.

There's also the crackdown against Kashmir. They unilaterally suspended Kashmir's special status that was guaranteed under the Indian Constitution. Then they arrested 4,000 people and shut down the internet for 7 months.