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AAC and Academics
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esayem Offline
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Post: #21
RE: AAC and Academics
(04-19-2021 01:06 PM)Bogg Wrote:  Not sure why West Point is being lumped in with Baked Potato U.

Oh c’mon man, it’s BSU: Baked Spud University.
04-19-2021 02:48 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #22
RE: AAC and Academics
(04-19-2021 02:35 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  The AAC aren't a totally unified bunch in terms of wants.

Navy and the privates would think:

1. Army
2. Rice
3. Boise
4. Buffalo

Temple (and maybe ECU) would think:

1A. Army
1B. Buffalo
3. Boise
4. Rice

UC/Memphis/UCF/UH would think:

1. Boise
2. Army
3. Rice
4. Buffalo

Do you see why we don't have a Team #12 yet???

I dont know that I'd agree. I suspect Army would already be a member if they were willing to say yes. Everything Ive ever heard leads me to believe Army and BYU each has pretty much a standing invitation to join---they need to do little more than tell the AAC they are interested in joining. I think Boise is almost as desirable--but more complicated than Army due to the need to find a suitable place for its olympic sports---an issue neither Army or BYU present.
(This post was last modified: 04-19-2021 07:46 PM by Attackcoog.)
04-19-2021 07:41 PM
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SMUstang Offline
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Post: #23
RE: AAC and Academics
(04-19-2021 07:41 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 02:35 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  The AAC aren't a totally unified bunch in terms of wants.

Navy and the privates would think:

1. Army
2. Rice
3. Boise
4. Buffalo

Temple (and maybe ECU) would think:

1A. Army
1B. Buffalo
3. Boise
4. Rice

UC/Memphis/UCF/UH would think:

1. Boise
2. Army
3. Rice
4. Buffalo

Do you see why we don't have a Team #12 yet???

I dont know that I'd agree. I suspect Army would already be a member if they were willing to say yes. Everything Ive ever heard leads me to believe Army and BYU each has pretty much a standing invitation to join---they need to do little more than tell the AAC they are interested in joining. I think Boise is almost as desirable--but more complicated than Army due to the need to find a suitable place for its olympic sports---an issue neither Army or BYU present.

I agree, and Army would probably be the most logical add. But they cherish their independence. BYU thinks of themselves as P5 because of Utah. So both of them are probably not going to be available.
04-19-2021 08:08 PM
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jdgaucho Offline
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Post: #24
RE: AAC and Academics
(04-19-2021 07:41 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 02:35 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  The AAC aren't a totally unified bunch in terms of wants.

Navy and the privates would think:

1. Army
2. Rice
3. Boise
4. Buffalo

Temple (and maybe ECU) would think:

1A. Army
1B. Buffalo
3. Boise
4. Rice

UC/Memphis/UCF/UH would think:

1. Boise
2. Army
3. Rice
4. Buffalo

Do you see why we don't have a Team #12 yet???

I dont know that I'd agree. I suspect Army would already be a member if they were willing to say yes. Everything Ive ever heard leads me to believe Army and BYU each has pretty much a standing invitation to join---they need to do little more than tell the AAC they are interested in joining. I think Boise is almost as desirable--but more complicated than Army due to the need to find a suitable place for its olympic sports---an issue neither Army or BYU present.

The answer is simple. Sweeten the pot by an annual hoops series with the top four Big West teams - guarantee Boise two AAC games - and an baseball series or two between the leagues (surely Wichita State and Cincinnati would welcome a trip to Hawaii). Pitch in a few pennies for Boise's travel subs since the AAC can afford to as a P6 and viola. Boise finds an old, acceptable home back with 10 California members and Hawaii

07-coffee3
04-19-2021 08:33 PM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #25
RE: AAC and Academics
(04-19-2021 01:35 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 01:22 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 01:12 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  [quote='Bogg' pid='17389687' dateline='1618855583']
Not sure why West Point is being lumped in with Baked Potato U.
[/quote

The analogy is:
Boise State vs Rice Institute
or
Army vs Buffalo

Rice and Buffalo are research institutes. West Point is a fine school. But not ranked as high as Buffalo.

Dramatically different institutions and goals, and it's still not hard to argue that West Point is both more difficult to get into and more rigorous academically. It's just super-specialized.

Right--when it comes to academics---I dont think anyone will be looking down their nose at West Point. The competition to get in there is every bit as stiff as it is for many Ivy league schools. In terms of "exclusivity" and quality---the academies are generally perceived as being similar to other very high quality academic institutions by both the public and university presidents.

Actually tougher for the non-athletic. You have to get interviewed, not have any legal issues and pass a medical and fitness test.
04-19-2021 08:44 PM
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Foreverandever Offline
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Post: #26
RE: AAC and Academics
(04-19-2021 08:44 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 01:35 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 01:22 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 01:12 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  [quote='Bogg' pid='17389687' dateline='1618855583']
Not sure why West Point is being lumped in with Baked Potato U.
[/quote

The analogy is:
Boise State vs Rice Institute
or
Army vs Buffalo

Rice and Buffalo are research institutes. West Point is a fine school. But not ranked as high as Buffalo.

Dramatically different institutions and goals, and it's still not hard to argue that West Point is both more difficult to get into and more rigorous academically. It's just super-specialized.

Right--when it comes to academics---I dont think anyone will be looking down their nose at West Point. The competition to get in there is every bit as stiff as it is for many Ivy league schools. In terms of "exclusivity" and quality---the academies are generally perceived as being similar to other very high quality academic institutions by both the public and university presidents.

Actually tougher for the non-athletic. You have to get interviewed, not have any legal issues and pass a medical and fitness test.

As well as a congressional recommendation I believe.

I'm not sure I am giving any undergrad an edge over an Army grad.

Maybe Harvard Law is more prestigious than graduating as a commissioned officer in the military from West Point, not sure a bachelor in finances from Princeton is though.
04-19-2021 09:22 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #27
RE: AAC and Academics
(04-19-2021 09:22 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 08:44 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 01:35 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 01:22 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 01:12 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  [quote='Bogg' pid='17389687' dateline='1618855583']
Not sure why West Point is being lumped in with Baked Potato U.
[/quote

The analogy is:
Boise State vs Rice Institute
or
Army vs Buffalo

Rice and Buffalo are research institutes. West Point is a fine school. But not ranked as high as Buffalo.

Dramatically different institutions and goals, and it's still not hard to argue that West Point is both more difficult to get into and more rigorous academically. It's just super-specialized.

Right--when it comes to academics---I dont think anyone will be looking down their nose at West Point. The competition to get in there is every bit as stiff as it is for many Ivy league schools. In terms of "exclusivity" and quality---the academies are generally perceived as being similar to other very high quality academic institutions by both the public and university presidents.

Actually tougher for the non-athletic. You have to get interviewed, not have any legal issues and pass a medical and fitness test.

As well as a congressional recommendation I believe.

I'm not sure I am giving any undergrad an edge over an Army grad.

Maybe Harvard Law is more prestigious than graduating as a commissioned officer in the military from West Point, not sure a bachelor in finances from Princeton is though.

Yes. You need a congressional recommendation. You also need top 1% grades, tremendous character (think eagle scout character), lots of activities.

An incredible young man I know was a finalist but didnt make the final cut. He screwed up by actually concentrating too much on academics. They like to see some athletic accomplishments. He played football in Jr High and quit to add to his resume of activites, pursue Eagle Scout, and concentrate on academics. He was very disappointed, but he ended up with a full ride to Texas A&M which included some sort of international scholarship opportunity---so--his work wasnt exactly for nothing. Still, when I see the kind of kid that was rejected....you realize the guys that actually make it into West Point have to be incredibly special.
(This post was last modified: 04-19-2021 10:04 PM by Attackcoog.)
04-19-2021 10:03 PM
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Bobcat2013 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: AAC and Academics
(04-19-2021 01:46 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  No offense to the eggheads on the board, but for the AAC they need quality on the field and in brand strength over academic rankings. Its all about ratings and revenue my friend-- and unless Rice is sharing research dollars with AAC members schools, they aren't going to be added.

Exactly what I was thinking. No one scrolls through the channels and chooses which game to watch based on the level of a schools academics.
04-19-2021 10:20 PM
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CarlSmithCenter Offline
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Post: #29
RE: AAC and Academics
(04-19-2021 12:34 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  The AAC is eyeing Boise State or Army instead of Rice or Buffalo. What does that tell you about their priorities? And that is more a reflection on this country’s priorities than the conference. What school’s diploma is the best in the long run?

Source(s) that the AAC is eyeing any other schools? Also, Rice is a better school than any of the three others that were mentioned, as well as every school in the AAC, when it comes to academics.
(This post was last modified: 04-19-2021 10:24 PM by CarlSmithCenter.)
04-19-2021 10:21 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #30
RE: AAC and Academics
(04-19-2021 10:20 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 01:46 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  No offense to the eggheads on the board, but for the AAC they need quality on the field and in brand strength over academic rankings. Its all about ratings and revenue my friend-- and unless Rice is sharing research dollars with AAC members schools, they aren't going to be added.

Exactly what I was thinking. No one scrolls through the channels and chooses which game to watch based on the level of a schools academics.

On the field football performance and BRAND---if good enough---can certainly bring enough value to a conference that university presidents are willing to overlook perceived academic shortcomings (to a degree). Ideally, every conference wants any candidate to have the academics of Rice and the football brand/performance of Ohio St.

Such candidates are in short supply.

Realistically, you'll take a Boise---but you rather have BYU---or Army (a national brand transcends performance--though they are doing quite well now). So--if none of those are coming to the AAC---then all the AAC is looking for is a list of eastern G5 schools with higher end academics (not looking for Harvard---but just a solid top 200 USNWR ranked school) that has both a football brand that is near the top of the AAC in quality and a basketball program thats near the top of the AAC in quality.....sadly---the list candidates matching that description remains completely empty....which is why the AAC continues to be an 11 team conference for football and basketball.
(This post was last modified: 04-20-2021 09:18 AM by Attackcoog.)
04-19-2021 11:20 PM
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SMUstang Offline
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Post: #31
RE: AAC and Academics
(04-19-2021 11:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 10:20 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 01:46 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  No offense to the eggheads on the board, but for the AAC they need quality on the field and in brand strength over academic rankings. Its all about ratings and revenue my friend-- and unless Rice is sharing research dollars with AAC members schools, they aren't going to be added.

Exactly what I was thinking. No one scrolls through the channels and chooses which game to watch based on the level of a schools academics.

On the field football performance and BRAND---if good enough---can certainly bring enough value to a conference that university presidents are willing to overlook perceived academic shortcomings (to a degree). Ideally, every conference wants any candidate to have the academics of Rice and the football brand/performance of Ohio St.

Such candidates are in short supply.

Realistically, you'll take a Boise---but you rather have BYU---or Army (thats a national brand transcends performance--though they are doing quite well now). So--if none of those are coming to the AAC---then all the AAC is looking for is a list of eastern G5 schools with higher end academics (not looking for Harvard---but just a solid top 200 USNWR ranked school) that has both a football brand that is near the top of the AAC in quality and a basketball program thats near the top of the AAC in quality.....sadly---the list candidates matching that description remains completely empty....which is why the AAC continues to be an 11 team conference for football and basketball.

Just thinking about your requirements, perhaps VCU for basketball and Liberty for football would fill the bill. Or Liberty for full membership (I would think that if BYU was acceptable that another religious school would be also since both compete with FBS schools and Liberty is in the AAC's current footprint) or is Liberty still too toxic because of Falwell?
(This post was last modified: 04-20-2021 09:40 AM by SMUstang.)
04-20-2021 08:13 AM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #32
RE: AAC and Academics
(04-20-2021 08:13 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 11:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 10:20 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 01:46 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  No offense to the eggheads on the board, but for the AAC they need quality on the field and in brand strength over academic rankings. Its all about ratings and revenue my friend-- and unless Rice is sharing research dollars with AAC members schools, they aren't going to be added.

Exactly what I was thinking. No one scrolls through the channels and chooses which game to watch based on the level of a schools academics.

On the field football performance and BRAND---if good enough---can certainly bring enough value to a conference that university presidents are willing to overlook perceived academic shortcomings (to a degree). Ideally, every conference wants any candidate to have the academics of Rice and the football brand/performance of Ohio St.

Such candidates are in short supply.

Realistically, you'll take a Boise---but you rather have BYU---or Army (thats a national brand transcends performance--though they are doing quite well now). So--if none of those are coming to the AAC---then all the AAC is looking for is a list of eastern G5 schools with higher end academics (not looking for Harvard---but just a solid top 200 USNWR ranked school) that has both a football brand that is near the top of the AAC in quality and a basketball program thats near the top of the AAC in quality.....sadly---the list candidates matching that description remains completely empty....which is why the AAC continues to be an 11 team conference for football and basketball.

Just thinking about your requirements, perhaps VCU for basketball and Liberty for football would fill the bill. Or Liberty for full membership.

Zero chance for Liberty. I do believe that a hybrid choice is the only option if the AAC has to pick a school now. VCU is an obvious value adding option and a school that’s a institutional fit. I’d extend a non-football invitation to VCU today. On the football side, there is no institutional match that also has the brand/performance heft in football to be an obvious value adding option at this time (at least not one that adds value and would also say “yes” to an invite).

So—fix what you can. Add VCU as they replace a good chunk of the basketball heft lost when UConn left. VCU makes sense right now. On the football side, there is no similar obvious choice—so do nothing. Keep in mind, losing the worst program in league is like dropping the worst test grade from your average. The overall average quality of the league improves even if you do nothing to replace it—-so no need to rush the replacement process by settling for a replacement that doesn’t check enough boxes.

Just be patient and eventually a school that currently makes sense as a value adding option (BYU, Army, Boise) will decide to join or a obvious alternative choice will eventually separate itself from the G5 scrum. The point is, there is no reason to gamble on adding a football program that MIGHT develop into a value adding option when being patient will allow you to add the program that DID develop into a value adding option.
(This post was last modified: 04-20-2021 09:43 AM by Attackcoog.)
04-20-2021 09:40 AM
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SMUstang Offline
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Post: #33
RE: AAC and Academics
(04-20-2021 09:40 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-20-2021 08:13 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 11:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 10:20 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 01:46 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  No offense to the eggheads on the board, but for the AAC they need quality on the field and in brand strength over academic rankings. Its all about ratings and revenue my friend-- and unless Rice is sharing research dollars with AAC members schools, they aren't going to be added.

Exactly what I was thinking. No one scrolls through the channels and chooses which game to watch based on the level of a schools academics.

On the field football performance and BRAND---if good enough---can certainly bring enough value to a conference that university presidents are willing to overlook perceived academic shortcomings (to a degree). Ideally, every conference wants any candidate to have the academics of Rice and the football brand/performance of Ohio St.

Such candidates are in short supply.

Realistically, you'll take a Boise---but you rather have BYU---or Army (thats a national brand transcends performance--though they are doing quite well now). So--if none of those are coming to the AAC---then all the AAC is looking for is a list of eastern G5 schools with higher end academics (not looking for Harvard---but just a solid top 200 USNWR ranked school) that has both a football brand that is near the top of the AAC in quality and a basketball program thats near the top of the AAC in quality.....sadly---the list candidates matching that description remains completely empty....which is why the AAC continues to be an 11 team conference for football and basketball.

Just thinking about your requirements, perhaps VCU for basketball and Liberty for football would fill the bill. Or Liberty for full membership.

Zero chance for Liberty. I do believe that a hybrid choice is the only option if the AAC has to pick a school now. VCU is an obvious value adding option and a school that’s a institutional fit. I’d extend a non-football invitation to VCU today. On the football side, there is no institutional match that also has the brand/performance heft in football to be an obvious value adding option at this time (at least not one that adds value and would also say “yes” to an invite).

So—fix what you can. Add VCU as they replace a good chunk of the basketball heft lost when UConn left. VCU makes sense right now. On the football side, there is no similar obvious choice—so do nothing. Keep in mind, losing the worst program in league is like dropping the worst test grade from your average. The overall average quality of the league improves even if you do nothing to replace it—-so no need to rush the replacement process by settling for a replacement that doesn’t check enough boxes.

Just be patient and eventually a school that currently makes sense as a value adding option (BYU, Army, Boise) will decide to join or a obvious alternative choice will eventually separate itself from the G5 scrum. The point is, there is no reason to gamble on adding a football program that MIGHT develop into a value adding option when being patient will allow you to add the program that DID develop into a value adding option.

BYU and Army are probably out of the question. Boise State is only a possibility if they can find a place to park their Olympic sports (which at this point seems unlikely). Other than that the AAC would have to go to 14 teams, adding Boise State as a full member, and add SDSU and someone else. That too seems unlikely but it could happen, who knows?
04-20-2021 10:02 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #34
RE: AAC and Academics
(04-19-2021 11:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 10:20 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 01:46 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  No offense to the eggheads on the board, but for the AAC they need quality on the field and in brand strength over academic rankings. Its all about ratings and revenue my friend-- and unless Rice is sharing research dollars with AAC members schools, they aren't going to be added.

Exactly what I was thinking. No one scrolls through the channels and chooses which game to watch based on the level of a schools academics.

On the field football performance and BRAND---if good enough---can certainly bring enough value to a conference that university presidents are willing to overlook perceived academic shortcomings (to a degree). Ideally, every conference wants any candidate to have the academics of Rice and the football brand/performance of Ohio St.

I tend to agree with those who have said academics is kind of an either/or thing. For any conference, there is kind of a minimum bar for academics. The bar is at different levels depending on the conference. And all you need to do is meet the bar, exceeding it doesn't mean much. So IMO if the Big 12 is considering expansion, and the informal bar in the minds of the conference presidents is something around 200 in US News rankings, and Memphis is at 180 and SMU is at 80, it really doesn't help SMU that much to be ranked 100 spots ahead - both meet the bar so now it's on to brand and other stuff.

For the AAC, we know that it really doesn't have much of a minimum bar, because the AAC seems to have had talks with Boise about joining for football, and Boise is a 300 - 400 level US News school. That basically includes everyone who the AAC could possibly be considering.

So IMO, for the AAC, academics really won't figure in to this process, if there is an expansion process.
04-20-2021 10:09 AM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #35
RE: AAC and Academics
(04-20-2021 10:09 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 11:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 10:20 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 01:46 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  No offense to the eggheads on the board, but for the AAC they need quality on the field and in brand strength over academic rankings. Its all about ratings and revenue my friend-- and unless Rice is sharing research dollars with AAC members schools, they aren't going to be added.

Exactly what I was thinking. No one scrolls through the channels and chooses which game to watch based on the level of a schools academics.

On the field football performance and BRAND---if good enough---can certainly bring enough value to a conference that university presidents are willing to overlook perceived academic shortcomings (to a degree). Ideally, every conference wants any candidate to have the academics of Rice and the football brand/performance of Ohio St.

I tend to agree with those who have said academics is kind of an either/or thing. For any conference, there is kind of a minimum bar for academics. The bar is at different levels depending on the conference. And all you need to do is meet the bar, exceeding it doesn't mean much. So IMO if the Big 12 is considering expansion, and the informal bar in the minds of the conference presidents is something around 200 in US News rankings, and Memphis is at 180 and SMU is at 80, it really doesn't help SMU that much to be ranked 100 spots ahead - both meet the bar so now it's on to brand and other stuff.

For the AAC, we know that it really doesn't have much of a minimum bar, because the AAC seems to have had talks with Boise about joining for football, and Boise is a 300 - 400 level US News school. That basically includes everyone who the AAC could possibly be considering.

So IMO, for the AAC, academics really won't figure in to this process, if there is an expansion process.

lol...I wouldnt say that. The AAC academic bar is actually pretty high for a G5. As we have discussed---there are simply fewer high level options for the AAC and---given the dearth of viable value adding football options----exceptions can be made for a school that offers a program with extremely high "brand value". So, for a football program like Boise with extremely high proven performance and extremely high brand recognition value for a G5---the academic bar for Boise will be lower than it for a less recognized football program. My sense is--the AAC presidents are comfortable with other national schools that are in that top-200 USNWR range. The vast majority of the AAC sits in that range. So---that top-200 range is basically the bar unless your offering something so valuable that the AAC presidents are willing to make an exception. There are very few programs with enough football brand value to trigger that kind of exception. I'd add that there are also very few G4 academic programs in that range that are near the AAC footprint--and none of those have football programs with high performance/brand value---which is why the AAC remains at 11.
(This post was last modified: 04-20-2021 11:09 AM by Attackcoog.)
04-20-2021 10:55 AM
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SMUstang Offline
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Post: #36
RE: AAC and Academics
(04-20-2021 10:55 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-20-2021 10:09 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 11:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 10:20 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 01:46 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  No offense to the eggheads on the board, but for the AAC they need quality on the field and in brand strength over academic rankings. Its all about ratings and revenue my friend-- and unless Rice is sharing research dollars with AAC members schools, they aren't going to be added.

Exactly what I was thinking. No one scrolls through the channels and chooses which game to watch based on the level of a schools academics.

On the field football performance and BRAND---if good enough---can certainly bring enough value to a conference that university presidents are willing to overlook perceived academic shortcomings (to a degree). Ideally, every conference wants any candidate to have the academics of Rice and the football brand/performance of Ohio St.

I tend to agree with those who have said academics is kind of an either/or thing. For any conference, there is kind of a minimum bar for academics. The bar is at different levels depending on the conference. And all you need to do is meet the bar, exceeding it doesn't mean much. So IMO if the Big 12 is considering expansion, and the informal bar in the minds of the conference presidents is something around 200 in US News rankings, and Memphis is at 180 and SMU is at 80, it really doesn't help SMU that much to be ranked 100 spots ahead - both meet the bar so now it's on to brand and other stuff.

For the AAC, we know that it really doesn't have much of a minimum bar, because the AAC seems to have had talks with Boise about joining for football, and Boise is a 300 - 400 level US News school. That basically includes everyone who the AAC could possibly be considering.

So IMO, for the AAC, academics really won't figure in to this process, if there is an expansion process.

lol...I wouldnt say that. The AAC academic bar is actually pretty high for a G5. As we have discussed---there are simply fewer high level options for the AAC and---given the dearth of viable value adding football options----exceptions can be made for a school that offers a program with extremely high "brand value". So, for a football program like Boise with extremely high proven performance and extremely high brand recognition value for a G5---the academic bar for Boise will be lower than it for a less recognized football program. My sense is--the AAC presidents are comfortable with other national schools that are in that top-200 USNWR range. The vast majority of the AAC sits in that range. So---that top-200 range is basically the bar unless your offering something so valuable that the AAC presidents are willing to make an exception.

The best option would seem to be Army, but after their C-USA experience I doubt if they would consider joining another conference.
04-20-2021 11:06 AM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #37
RE: AAC and Academics
(04-20-2021 11:06 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  
(04-20-2021 10:55 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-20-2021 10:09 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 11:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 10:20 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  Exactly what I was thinking. No one scrolls through the channels and chooses which game to watch based on the level of a schools academics.

On the field football performance and BRAND---if good enough---can certainly bring enough value to a conference that university presidents are willing to overlook perceived academic shortcomings (to a degree). Ideally, every conference wants any candidate to have the academics of Rice and the football brand/performance of Ohio St.

I tend to agree with those who have said academics is kind of an either/or thing. For any conference, there is kind of a minimum bar for academics. The bar is at different levels depending on the conference. And all you need to do is meet the bar, exceeding it doesn't mean much. So IMO if the Big 12 is considering expansion, and the informal bar in the minds of the conference presidents is something around 200 in US News rankings, and Memphis is at 180 and SMU is at 80, it really doesn't help SMU that much to be ranked 100 spots ahead - both meet the bar so now it's on to brand and other stuff.

For the AAC, we know that it really doesn't have much of a minimum bar, because the AAC seems to have had talks with Boise about joining for football, and Boise is a 300 - 400 level US News school. That basically includes everyone who the AAC could possibly be considering.

So IMO, for the AAC, academics really won't figure in to this process, if there is an expansion process.

lol...I wouldnt say that. The AAC academic bar is actually pretty high for a G5. As we have discussed---there are simply fewer high level options for the AAC and---given the dearth of viable value adding football options----exceptions can be made for a school that offers a program with extremely high "brand value". So, for a football program like Boise with extremely high proven performance and extremely high brand recognition value for a G5---the academic bar for Boise will be lower than it for a less recognized football program. My sense is--the AAC presidents are comfortable with other national schools that are in that top-200 USNWR range. The vast majority of the AAC sits in that range. So---that top-200 range is basically the bar unless your offering something so valuable that the AAC presidents are willing to make an exception.

The best option would seem to be Army, but after their C-USA experience I doubt if they would consider joining another conference.

Yup. They have long been a Big East/AAC target. In the end, we are where we are. If Army was interested, they would be a member. If there was mutual interest between the AAC and any G4 school in or near their footprint---the AAC would have added their 12th member by now. The AAC presidents have scanned the landscape multiple times and keep coming to the same conclusion. Only BYU, Boise, or Army add value. None of those are interested right now. Since nobody else is worth adding at this time--the AAC is probably making the most prudent decision by simply standing pat until an obvious value adding replacement option becomes available. 04-cheers
(This post was last modified: 04-20-2021 11:17 AM by Attackcoog.)
04-20-2021 11:16 AM
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colohank Offline
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Post: #38
RE: AAC and Academics
(04-19-2021 10:03 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 09:22 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 08:44 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 01:35 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 01:22 PM)Bogg Wrote:  Dramatically different institutions and goals, and it's still not hard to argue that West Point is both more difficult to get into and more rigorous academically. It's just super-specialized.

Right--when it comes to academics---I dont think anyone will be looking down their nose at West Point. The competition to get in there is every bit as stiff as it is for many Ivy league schools. In terms of "exclusivity" and quality---the academies are generally perceived as being similar to other very high quality academic institutions by both the public and university presidents.

Actually tougher for the non-athletic. You have to get interviewed, not have any legal issues and pass a medical and fitness test.

As well as a congressional recommendation I believe.

I'm not sure I am giving any undergrad an edge over an Army grad.

Maybe Harvard Law is more prestigious than graduating as a commissioned officer in the military from West Point, not sure a bachelor in finances from Princeton is though.

Yes. You need a congressional recommendation. You also need top 1% grades, tremendous character (think eagle scout character), lots of activities.

An incredible young man I know was a finalist but didnt make the final cut. He screwed up by actually concentrating too much on academics. They like to see some athletic accomplishments. He played football in Jr High and quit to add to his resume of activites, pursue Eagle Scout, and concentrate on academics. He was very disappointed, but he ended up with a full ride to Texas A&M which included some sort of international scholarship opportunity---so--his work wasnt exactly for nothing. Still, when I see the kind of kid that was rejected....you realize the guys that actually make it into West Point have to be incredibly special.

Yes, and then it dawns on you that Mike Pompeo graduated at the top of his West Point class, and you think WTF?
04-20-2021 01:19 PM
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DFW HOYA Offline
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Post: #39
RE: AAC and Academics
(04-20-2021 01:19 PM)colohank Wrote:  Yes, and then it dawns on you that Mike Pompeo graduated at the top of his West Point class, and you think WTF?

A top finish does not always portend a top rank. Pompeo finished his career as a CPT.
(This post was last modified: 04-20-2021 01:38 PM by DFW HOYA.)
04-20-2021 01:38 PM
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NJMark Offline
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Post: #40
RE: AAC and Academics
(04-20-2021 01:19 PM)colohank Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 10:03 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 09:22 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 08:44 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 01:35 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Right--when it comes to academics---I dont think anyone will be looking down their nose at West Point. The competition to get in there is every bit as stiff as it is for many Ivy league schools. In terms of "exclusivity" and quality---the academies are generally perceived as being similar to other very high quality academic institutions by both the public and university presidents.

Actually tougher for the non-athletic. You have to get interviewed, not have any legal issues and pass a medical and fitness test.

As well as a congressional recommendation I believe.

I'm not sure I am giving any undergrad an edge over an Army grad.

Maybe Harvard Law is more prestigious than graduating as a commissioned officer in the military from West Point, not sure a bachelor in finances from Princeton is though.

Yes. You need a congressional recommendation. You also need top 1% grades, tremendous character (think eagle scout character), lots of activities.

An incredible young man I know was a finalist but didnt make the final cut. He screwed up by actually concentrating too much on academics. They like to see some athletic accomplishments. He played football in Jr High and quit to add to his resume of activites, pursue Eagle Scout, and concentrate on academics. He was very disappointed, but he ended up with a full ride to Texas A&M which included some sort of international scholarship opportunity---so--his work wasnt exactly for nothing. Still, when I see the kind of kid that was rejected....you realize the guys that actually make it into West Point have to be incredibly special.

Yes, and then it dawns on you that Mike Pompeo graduated at the top of his West Point class, and you think WTF?

I don't think that at all.
04-20-2021 02:12 PM
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