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W&M to A 10. Makes sense
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mrjoolius Offline
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Post: #21
W&M to A 10. Makes sense
We'd be a great add for every sport in the A10 other than basketball. But, basketball is the motor that runs the A10. Unless we start consistently getting tourney bids, I can think of at least a couple other CAA teams that the A10 might prefer. GMU, VCU, Davidson, and UR all rode their miraculous tourney runs into the A10. They couldn't care less that we have a potentially high level FCS football operation. In fact, that may work against since football potentially divides resources away from basketball. Sure, many of these A10 teams would love the shorter travel distances and natural rivalries, but unless we are bringing clear improvement (ie: increased revenue for the member schools) I don't see enough members agreeing to it. Rather than seeing all the high level non-revenue sports entering the conference that W&M would bring along, I feel like we'd be seen as another Fordham (two above .500 years in MBB since 2000). I would absolutely love to go to the A10, but it feels too much like it benefits us more than ups the A10s profile- A lower tier team benefitting from the conference multi bids, but never really in the discussion as a conference favorite.
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2021 07:22 AM by mrjoolius.)
04-18-2021 07:16 AM
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Tribe32 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: W&M to A 10. Makes sense
We'll see how Dane does over the next two or three years once he has had a chance to recruit his type of player. If we are a gritty gym rat bunch who wins games that we shouldn't then we probably have a chance at getting back to where we were with Shaver. IMO we are looking at 10 years or more to move to a place like the A10. I personally think it is as simple as picking to focus on football or not. If you do, then understand that resources are going there. Eliminating football and pushing your chips in to be split up by a few other sports and we could see more facility spending, resources for the athletes, etc. I for one would go the football route and try to regain our prominence there. Outside of the Ivies there are very few academic peer schools in a regional geography who aren't already in the ACC, SEC, or Big 10 so that shouldn't even be in the conversation.
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2021 07:27 AM by Tribe32.)
04-18-2021 07:26 AM
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mainejeff Offline
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Post: #23
RE: W&M to A 10. Makes sense
(04-18-2021 05:40 AM)Tribe757 Wrote:  I am curious why WM fans think the A10 is such a reach

Our oldest rival in in the conference. 2 recent CAA teams are in the conference

Have we sunken that low that we want to play in a conference w NO tv coverage

2 other state schools in the conference. Let me say that again. 2 basically spin offs of WM are in the conference. Same tax payers. Remember when Warner mandated that Va Texh be invited in the ACC

This should be doable. Anyone remember great VCU games w fans? We have watched ODU VCU GMU UR all make strides. Lets not wait firm JMU to leave and then hope we can get a home and home w CNU

That's the attitude that W&M needs to take. Be proactive. The days of new members falling in the lap of the CAA are over.
04-18-2021 07:38 AM
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Sitting bull Offline
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Post: #24
RE: W&M to A 10. Makes sense
(04-18-2021 05:40 AM)Tribe757 Wrote:  I am curious why WM fans think the A10 is such a reach

Our oldest rival in in the conference. 2 recent CAA teams are in the conference

Have we sunken that low that we want to play in a conference w NO tv coverage

2 other state schools in the conference. Let me say that again. 2 basically spin offs of WM are in the conference. Same tax payers. Remember when Warner mandated that Va Texh be invited in the ACC

This should be doable. Anyone remember great VCU games w fans? We have watched ODU VCU GMU UR all make strides. Lets not wait firm JMU to leave and then hope we can get a home and home w CNU

To me, the A10 is strictly a basketball league. Better than the CAA in that single sport for sure though that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the best spot for W&M.

I think all sport leagues have better foundations and in our case, I prefer we have an all sports home. Right now, the CAA is by far the best option for us: top tier in football, mid major competitive in basketball and decent in baseball. Also sponsors all the other sports.

I wouldn’t agree either that the foursome you mention have overall prospered after leaving the CAA. ODU certainly has not. I don’t think Mason has either. Their glory days were in the CAA. Same for VCU. UR is the one example where I think their profile improved though the A10 was a much higher profile league when they joined (Temple, Xavier, etc) then it is now.

I also think - just in terms of basketball - the current CAA without these other state rivals has allowed W&M to breathe and improve significantly. We have gone from perennial losers to expected winners the last 5-6 years. Our attendance has actually increased during the stretch. The interest level in W&M basketball has never been better, other than maybe the late 70s.

I would rather not jump back into the pool of a bottom feeder right now, not until we get a few more solid CAA years of development under our belt. Maybe a championship? It’s possible in the CAA. It’s a pipe dream in the A10.
04-18-2021 08:15 AM
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Tribester Offline
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Post: #25
RE: W&M to A 10. Makes sense
Stay in CAA for football. Leave for everything else. This is not hard.
Richmond. VCU. George Mason. GW. Those are four big reasons to leave right now. Nobody gives a damn about playing Northeastern or Drexel. Imagine the attendance at the renovated Kap for all of these in state/DC rivals. All that is left now is JMU, and they are not long for the CAA either. This conference was great back in the day when we had Richmond/VCU/ODU/GMU...now it is a husk of what it used to be. The A10 sponsors baseball/cross country/field hockey/golf/lacrosse/soccer/swimming/tennis/track & field/volleyball. Sounds good to me. Truly the no brainer of moves that we should make.
04-18-2021 08:51 AM
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tribeinexile Offline
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Post: #26
RE: W&M to A 10. Makes sense
We do not fund basketball at the A-10 level.

We do not fund basketball at the level of 4 of the 5 CAA basketball-only schools.

Until or unless we change those facts, ...
04-18-2021 09:13 AM
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Tank55 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: W&M to A 10. Makes sense
From the A-10s perspective, what do we add beyond our academic profile that would justify splitting revenue one more way?
04-18-2021 09:58 AM
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Sitting bull Offline
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Post: #28
RE: W&M to A 10. Makes sense
(04-18-2021 08:51 AM)Tribester Wrote:  Stay in CAA for football. Leave for everything else. This is not hard.
Richmond. VCU. George Mason. GW. Those are four big reasons to leave right now. Nobody gives a damn about playing Northeastern or Drexel. Imagine the attendance at the renovated Kap for all of these in state/DC rivals. All that is left now is JMU, and they are not long for the CAA either. This conference was great back in the day when we had Richmond/VCU/ODU/GMU...now it is a husk of what it used to be. The A10 sponsors baseball/cross country/field hockey/golf/lacrosse/soccer/swimming/tennis/track & field/volleyball. Sounds good to me. Truly the no brainer of moves that we should make.

The only state school we have ever come close to selling out Kaplan is ODU and we continue to play them every year.

Our attendance the last 5 years is well above the previous years when all those teams were in the CAA. I remember the days of playing VCU at the Kap in front of 2500, of which 40% were from VCU. Today we bring in over 3,000 every game including for Drexel and Northeastern. Over 4,000 for Delaware, JMU and Charleston. It’s because we are winning, something we won’t do with any consistency in the A10.
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2021 11:32 AM by Sitting bull.)
04-18-2021 11:32 AM
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WMInTheBurg Offline
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Post: #29
RE: W&M to A 10. Makes sense
(04-18-2021 08:51 AM)Tribester Wrote:  Stay in CAA for football. Leave for everything else. This is not hard.
Richmond. VCU. George Mason. GW. Those are four big reasons to leave right now. Nobody gives a damn about playing Northeastern or Drexel. Imagine the attendance at the renovated Kap for all of these in state/DC rivals. All that is left now is JMU, and they are not long for the CAA either. This conference was great back in the day when we had Richmond/VCU/ODU/GMU...now it is a husk of what it used to be. The A10 sponsors baseball/cross country/field hockey/golf/lacrosse/soccer/swimming/tennis/track & field/volleyball. Sounds good to me. Truly the no brainer of moves that we should make.

Yes, we should definitely dictate that another conference accept us.
04-18-2021 12:05 PM
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nogretheogre Offline
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Post: #30
RE: W&M to A 10. Makes sense
"Greater Williamsburg" has grown substantially (~40k) in population as well over the last 20 years, so you cant discount that as being a factor for "fan" attendance. Based on the crowd, I would imagine many of these people are retirees looking for activities (and maybe retired alums).
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2021 05:45 PM by nogretheogre.)
04-18-2021 05:41 PM
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LION KING Offline
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Post: #31
RE: W&M to A 10. Makes sense
WHAT makes sense is to drop all athletics, if administration and state continues to live in their basements.We must move
forward knowing that Covid has been, and will be around forever. Get the fans back and play. We must open the school to in person learning.The dumming down of our students must stop.As they always say,for the well being of our student athletes and fans, follow the the science,and open like Texas.
04-19-2021 06:18 AM
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mrjoolius Offline
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Post: #32
RE: W&M to A 10. Makes sense
(04-19-2021 06:18 AM)LION KING Wrote:  WHAT makes sense is to drop all athletics, if administration and state continues to live in their basements.We must move
forward knowing that Covid has been, and will be around forever. Get the fans back and play. We must open the school to in person learning.The dumming down of our students must stop.As they always say,for the well being of our student athletes and fans, follow the the science,and open like Texas.

I think you meant to say follow the politics, not follow the science
04-19-2021 07:49 AM
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mainejeff Offline
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Post: #33
RE: W&M to A 10. Makes sense
(04-19-2021 06:18 AM)LION KING Wrote:  WHAT makes sense is to drop all athletics, if administration and state continues to live in their basements.We must move
forward knowing that Covid has been, and will be around forever. Get the fans back and play. We must open the school to in person learning.The dumming down of our students must stop.As they always say,for the well being of our student athletes and fans, follow the the science,and open like Texas.

Yes....open like Texas!!!
04-19-2021 07:49 AM
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TDenverFan Offline
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Post: #34
RE: W&M to A 10. Makes sense
(04-19-2021 06:18 AM)LION KING Wrote:  WHAT makes sense is to drop all athletics, if administration and state continues to live in their basements.We must move
forward knowing that Covid has been, and will be around forever. Get the fans back and play. We must open the school to in person learning.The dumming down of our students must stop.As they always say,for the well being of our student athletes and fans, follow the the science,and open like Texas.

The school has been open for in person learning this whole time. We gave students the option of doing zoom classes, but most are on campus and can attend classes.

Edit: It seems like some bigger classes are mostly online, most of my friends still at WM are seniors who are largely in smaller classes, but everyone is allowed on campus regardless
(This post was last modified: 04-19-2021 08:49 AM by TDenverFan.)
04-19-2021 08:13 AM
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mainejeff Offline
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Post: #35
RE: W&M to A 10. Makes sense
(04-19-2021 08:13 AM)TDenverFan Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 06:18 AM)LION KING Wrote:  WHAT makes sense is to drop all athletics, if administration and state continues to live in their basements.We must move
forward knowing that Covid has been, and will be around forever. Get the fans back and play. We must open the school to in person learning.The dumming down of our students must stop.As they always say,for the well being of our student athletes and fans, follow the the science,and open like Texas.

The school has been open for in person learning this whole time. We gave students the option of doing zoom classes, but most are on campus and can attend classes.

There you go again with facts. Open like Texas!!!

Back to the A-10......let's face it, the A-10 is a pipe dream for W&M. CAA or Patriot are better fits.
04-19-2021 08:35 AM
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #36
W&M to A 10. Makes sense
It's like Jeff (Jack Torrance) is deep in the Overlook Hotel maze and can't find his way out. Be Danny, Jeff, be Danny.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
04-19-2021 04:31 PM
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wmmii Offline
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Post: #37
RE: W&M to A 10. Makes sense
If the new AD and President Rowe stay on the path that focuses on MBB making the NCAA tourney in multiple years plus winning games then it is not a pipe dream. It is all up to Dane in his recruiting and coaching plus the College in providing MBB the tools necessary. Give it 5 years and then come back to this tread and we can discuss the reality of the future.
04-20-2021 12:19 AM
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dan10 Offline
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Post: #38
RE: W&M to A 10. Makes sense
Since spending was mentioned here are some numbers from 2018-19 data. I know W&M is in a different boat right now paying for Shaver yet, however the notion W&M doesnt spend enough seems to be an outdated thought (surprised me actually). Here are some highlights that likely interest you guys

CAA average spending on mens basketball: 2.95M (#12 overall conference)
A-10 average spending on mens basketball: 4.99M (#8 overall conference)

#71 (top A-10 team)- Dayton- 7.43M
#87- VCU- 6.1M
#95- Fordham- 5.08M
#98- Richmond- 4.78M
#106- George Mason- 4.29M
#114- (top CAA team)- W&M- 3.97M
#115- ODU- 3.94M
#124- GW- 3.55M
#127- Liberty- 3.40M
#134- (2nd CAA team)- CofC- 3.28M
#161- JMU- 2.71M

Data link
(This post was last modified: 04-20-2021 10:59 AM by dan10.)
04-20-2021 07:45 AM
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zablenoise Offline
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Post: #39
RE: W&M to A 10. Makes sense
(04-20-2021 07:45 AM)dan10 Wrote:  Since spending was mentioned here are some numbers from 2018-19 data. I know W&M is in a different boat right now paying for Shaver yet, however the notion W&M doesnt spend enough seems to be an outdated thought (surprised me actually). Here are some highlights that likely interest you guys

CAA average spending on mens basketball: 2.95M (#8 overall conference)
A-10 average spending on mens basketball: 4.99M (#12 overall conference)

#71 (top A-10 team)- Dayton- 7.43M
#87- VCU- 6.1M
#95- Fordham- 5.08M
#98- Richmond- 4.78M
#106- George Mason- 4.29M
#114- (top CAA team)- W&M- 3.97M
#115- ODU- 3.94M
#124- GW- 3.55M
#127- Liberty- 3.40M
#134- (2nd CAA team)- CofC- 3.28M
#161- JMU- 2.71M

Data link

Wow. I did not expect this. We spend more on basketball than I thought.
04-20-2021 08:19 AM
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tribeinexile Offline
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Post: #40
RE: W&M to A 10. Makes sense
This is wildly inconsistent with coaches salaries, which I use as a proxy for spending on MBB. This warrants further study but I wonder if an accounting quirk (e.g., allocation of capital costs) or perhaps one-time expenses (architectural study?) are skewing the data.

I must add that we certainly are not spending money to bring big name teams to Kaplan.
04-20-2021 08:21 AM
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