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Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
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WMInTheBurg Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
(04-18-2021 05:41 PM)Tribal Wrote:  Comparing a "normal" season to covid season where some teams only played 3 games (and some teams didn't play at all) may be the silliest thing I've seen on a message board.

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idk, two threads about how we should be changing conferences after a covid year is pretty close.
04-18-2021 06:11 PM
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Tribal Online
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Post: #42
RE: Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
(04-18-2021 06:11 PM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  
(04-18-2021 05:41 PM)Tribal Wrote:  Comparing a "normal" season to covid season where some teams only played 3 games (and some teams didn't play at all) may be the silliest thing I've seen on a message board.

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idk, two threads about how we should be changing conferences after a covid year is pretty close.
That's a very solid point. I concede.

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04-18-2021 07:37 PM
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Tank55 Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
(04-18-2021 05:41 PM)Tribal Wrote:  Comparing a "normal" season to covid season where some teams only played 3 games (and some teams didn't play at all) may be the silliest thing I've seen on a message board.

I guess that's fair as far as it goes. But let's remember, you were the one who cited the 2021 spring season as evidence of the league's prominence:

(04-16-2021 02:55 PM)Tribal Wrote:  Check the number of CAA teams in the top 25.

Regardless, the point -- that the CAA has clearly lost its status as sub-division's premier conference -- most certainly still stands.
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2021 09:41 PM by Tank55.)
04-18-2021 08:46 PM
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WMInTheBurg Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
(04-18-2021 08:46 PM)Tank55 Wrote:  
(04-18-2021 05:41 PM)Tribal Wrote:  Comparing a "normal" season to covid season where some teams only played 3 games (and some teams didn't play at all) may be the silliest thing I've seen on a message board.

I guess that's fair as far as it goes. But let's remember, you were the one who cited the 2021 spring season as evidence of the league's prominence:

(04-16-2021 02:55 PM)Tribal Wrote:  Check the number of CAA teams in the top 25.

Regardless, the point -- that the CAA has clearly lost its status as sub-division's premier conference -- most certainly still stands.

How about me? I think this season was basically an extended practice, and I'm waiting to see how many playoff games get canceled.

Also, I think it's ridiculous to make a judgment that includes the last 12-14 months as evidence. This entire thread is full of recency bias, and exists because people are bored. Whenever there's a Patriot League thread here, it means people are generally happy, because there's no other complaining to do.
04-18-2021 11:15 PM
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bubbadog57 Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
The last thing the College and our athletic department would get involved with right now, I would believe, would be all the
complexities of a league change. We've much too much on our athletic plate at this time.
04-19-2021 05:22 AM
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mainejeff Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
(04-19-2021 05:22 AM)bubbadog57 Wrote:  The last thing the College and our athletic department would get involved with right now, I would believe, would be all the
complexities of a league change. We've much too much on our athletic plate at this time.

There is no reason for W&M to be proactive. You are an elite academic school that can always find a home even after the CAA falls apart if JMU leaves.
(This post was last modified: 04-19-2021 07:48 AM by mainejeff.)
04-19-2021 07:47 AM
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Tank55 Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
(04-18-2021 11:15 PM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  How about me?

How about you? Do you think CAA football is in a better place to where it was before the realignment?
04-19-2021 10:04 AM
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Zorch Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
(04-18-2021 11:15 PM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  How about me? I think this season was basically an extended practice, and I'm waiting to see how many playoff games get canceled.

Also, I think it's ridiculous to make a judgment that includes the last 12-14 months as evidence. This entire thread is full of recency bias, and exists because people are bored. Whenever there's a Patriot League thread here, it means people are generally happy, because there's no other complaining to do.

This is going to sound harsh but I am tired of hearing excuses couched in Covid. Unfortunately, it looks to me that the entire W&M athletic department looked on this year as an extended practice. We competed in 23 sports (22.5 if you know that WBB opted out after half a season) and so far we have yet to win even one CAA championship (Field Hockey, Tennis, Track, and Baseball are still playing). The last 12 months certainly meant something to those teams that did win CAA championships and who competed for NCAA crowns. Drexel certainly values its MBB and WBB championships. Using Covid as an excuse is a cop out because every other school in the country faced the same challenges. To me, it shows a department-wide lack of resiliency for not having competed better this year (and a lot of that was due to timid CAA-only scheduling). Don't get me wrong. I'm not espousing playing under unsafe conditions. If W&M (like the Ivy League) had opted out of sports altogether then I would have been okay with that. However, once the decision to play was made then I think the school owed it to the athletes and to the fans to compete. I think that all the athletes in all the sports definitely competed. I think the department and some of the coaches (both of whom participate in the scheduling) failed to compete by not scheduling with winning in mind. I think MBB's failure to schedule another game in an attempt to secure the 6 seed (the 6 seed from which Drexel won the tournament) was a failure to compete. I think XC running in only one meet prior to the CAA championship is what cost them their 21-year winning streak (NE, who won the CAA, competed in several meets). I think that it was clear that Football was making no effort to reschedule games (I guess that they had seen enough of their freshmen by then; and note that if this was a normal fall season that W&M would be expected to field a team and play through injuries). All is not lost yet, though. I'm still holding out hope for Field Hockey and Women's Tennis as our best hope for a CAA championship this year. W&M has never gone a school year without at least one championship.

I don't think any FCS playoff games will get cancelled. All those teams want to play. Only one NCAA basketball game (out of 130 men and women) got cancelled (VCU).
04-19-2021 10:49 AM
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WMInTheBurg Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
(04-19-2021 10:04 AM)Tank55 Wrote:  
(04-18-2021 11:15 PM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  How about me?

How about you? Do you think CAA football is in a better place to where it was before the realignment?

My answer was above, in the part you edited out:

(04-18-2021 11:15 PM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  I think it's ridiculous to make a judgment that includes the last 12-14 months as evidence. This entire thread is full of recency bias, and exists because people are bored. Whenever there's a Patriot League thread here, it means people are generally happy, because there's no other complaining to do.

Also, this is a Patriot League slow news day thread. Make a "State of CAA football" slow news day thread if you want to talk about that.
04-19-2021 11:07 AM
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tribeintexas Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
Can we join the Ivy league? It's about time they expand.
04-19-2021 12:42 PM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
(04-18-2021 01:56 PM)LeadBolt Wrote:  I’d rather see us back in the SoCon than in the Patriot.


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If the Socon was smart, they would take W&M and a partner of their choosing right now
04-19-2021 03:51 PM
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Florida tribe fan Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
(04-19-2021 11:07 AM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  
(04-19-2021 10:04 AM)Tank55 Wrote:  
(04-18-2021 11:15 PM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  How about me?

How about you? Do you think CAA football is in a better place to where it was before the realignment?

My answer was above, in the part you edited out:

(04-18-2021 11:15 PM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  I think it's ridiculous to make a judgment that includes the last 12-14 months as evidence. This entire thread is full of recency bias, and exists because people are bored. Whenever there's a Patriot League thread here, it means people are generally happy, because there's no other complaining to do.

By its own admission the athletic department was experiencing funding shortfalls before the pandemic. The football program experienced four losing campaigns in a row, before the pandemic. The basketball program deserves credit for regular season success, but was bounced in the quarters of the two CAA tournaments preceding the pandemic. The thrust of the thread is unpopular with multiple readers, but it's unclear that the pandemic and recency bias were the catalysts for its initiation by the blog authors. One wouldn't think the aforementioned state of affairs would make a fan base happy, but the Tribe faithful are a curious lot.

Also, this is a Patriot League slow news day thread. Make a "State of CAA football" slow news day thread if you want to talk about that.
04-19-2021 04:33 PM
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WMSportsBlog Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
(04-16-2021 10:27 PM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  The CAA is far from perfect, but if we're going to spend the time to change conferences there should be a good reason. Moving to the Patriot is giving up on sports. Going through all the effort to save 7 sports, just to move to the Patriot? Cut out the athletic department altogether, saves money and accomplishes the same thing.

Definitely see your point, 100%. A big concern though is the current students' lack of support/interest in Tribe Athletics. And it's been like that for the better part of the last decade now.

With our alumni base / big football boosters getting up there in age, will the current student body actually want to sustain W&M's current investment level in athletics? Will they donate their own hard-earned money to Tribe Athletics when they graduate?...

Seems like something has to give. That's really the genesis of exploring this topic for us at the WMSB.
04-23-2021 02:53 PM
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WMSportsBlog Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
(04-19-2021 12:42 PM)tribeintexas Wrote:  Can we join the Ivy league? It's about time they expand.

Only if we improve on our sudden "precipitous drop" in the US News rankings

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04-23-2021 02:55 PM
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Tribe757 Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
(04-16-2021 01:51 PM)Tank55 Wrote:  Football is stronger? The late 2000s/early 2010s were the glory days, IMO. Depth, quality, and exposure. In what ways are we better off today?

Stay in CAA for football. Find a way into A 10. We r better than Fordham in Bball. Patriot League has NO state schools. A 10 has 2 Va state schools.

Get the Governor involved. Like when Va Tech was being blackballed by UVA when they wanted in ACC

Play 4 games within driving distance Have away fans come to games
04-26-2021 07:06 AM
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Sitting bull Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
If W&M were to compose a list of schools they would want to associate with in an all sports league, I doubt the list would point to any other best fit for Tribe athletics than the CAA. I stress all sports as football, not basketball, tends to be the sport that binds long term conference relationships.

I also doubt W&M could find any better conference where our influence would be any higher on conference guidelines and proposed members, new or current.

And for all that would include ODU, Mason etc on the list, I think the onus would be on them, not us, to find a better arrangement.

The Patriot is a solid conference and thankfully for us, we could fit there if that option was needed. It is though a step down in both competition and interest level for our fan base.
04-26-2021 08:38 AM
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mrjoolius Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
(04-26-2021 07:06 AM)Tribe757 Wrote:  
(04-16-2021 01:51 PM)Tank55 Wrote:  Football is stronger? The late 2000s/early 2010s were the glory days, IMO. Depth, quality, and exposure. In what ways are we better off today?

Stay in CAA for football. Find a way into A 10. We r better than Fordham in Bball. Patriot League has NO state schools. A 10 has 2 Va state schools.

Get the Governor involved. Like when Va Tech was being blackballed by UVA when they wanted in ACC

Play 4 games within driving distance Have away fans come to games

I am 100% behind the A10/CAA model. My issue is, what is the attraction for the A10 bringing in W&M? Is adding a high academic a priority? The A10 is a basketball conference. It supports all of their other programs. In our current state and amount we fund basketball, we aren't adding to the conferences ability to bring in additional bids/money. I get it-footprint fits, state schools, resumes Richmond rivalries. I just don't see them wanting us vs other regional schools that bring consistent winning basketball to the table.
04-26-2021 08:44 AM
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TDenverFan Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
It would be interesting to ask an A10 forum who they want as expansion candidates. I honestly don't think we'd be that high on their list at the moment
04-26-2021 09:16 AM
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LeadBolt Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
No doubt that the A10 is less interested in us joining in their current configuration, than we are. We need to start by getting our house in order to become attractive to them. That will no doubt be a process that takes multiple years to accomplish. No one knows what the landscape will be at that time, but the longer it takes for W&M to straighten itself out, the farther behind it will fall.
(This post was last modified: 04-26-2021 10:03 AM by LeadBolt.)
04-26-2021 09:56 AM
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TDenverFan Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
(04-26-2021 09:56 AM)LeadBolt Wrote:  No doubt that the A10 is less interested in us rejoining, in their current configuration, than we would be. We need to start by getting our house in order to become attractive to them. That will no doubt be a process that takes multiple years to accomplish. No one knows what the landscape will be at that time, but the longer it takes for W&M to straighten itself out, the farther behind it will fall.

100% agreed. I don't think we're an inherently unattractive option, great academic school that university presidents are happy to associate with, over 4k fans per game in the most recent pre covid season(we actually would've ranked 7th in the A10, below St. Bonaventure and ahead of Mason), large endowment/good financial support, generally fielded solid teams over the past few seasons, located close to a lot of other A10 teams (the conference HQ is actually in Newport News).

However, we don't add a new media market, are in a small town, haven't made any post season tournament since the 2014 NIT, and the A10 could really poach us at any time, there's no urgency/reason for them to add us in the short term, unless they lose a member or two. Even then, the A10 is sorta bloated at 14, if they shed two members they may not even care to replace them, 12 is a pretty reasonable size for a league.
04-26-2021 10:09 AM
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