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Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
(04-16-2021 01:51 PM)Tank55 Wrote:  Football is stronger? The late 2000s/early 2010s were the glory days, IMO. Depth, quality, and exposure. In what ways are we better off today?

The CAA...THE CAA...THE CONFERENCE is stronger now than it was during the VCU/GMU era, save basketball. I've now stated that four distinct times.

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(This post was last modified: 04-16-2021 02:14 PM by Tribal.)
04-16-2021 02:14 PM
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mainejeff Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
(04-16-2021 01:37 PM)Tribal Wrote:  What leads you to believe W&M is obsessed with the company we keep? Point to just one example because absolutely nothing in our current affiliation supports that claim.

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You don't consider W&M to be Ivy-like?
04-16-2021 02:38 PM
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #23
Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
You're not answering my question. What leads you to believe W&M is obsessed with the company we keep?

To answer your question, yes, I believe W&M is Ivy-like but I'm not even a little concerned with it, let alone obsessed. I've often stated the CAA is a perfect fit for W&M and we have no academic peers. We have little in common with the company we keep and I (and W&M) are fine with that.

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(This post was last modified: 04-16-2021 02:53 PM by Tribal.)
04-16-2021 02:46 PM
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zablenoise Offline
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Post: #24
Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
I just don't know. I've really come to hate the CAA. It's mostly teams I don't give a second thought to managed by an incompetent idiot. It's slightly better with the FB schools but not nearly enough. The issue is that the Patriot just doesn't move the needle for me. Like Colgate? Bucknell? I'd rather we try to be a creative independent maybe? I just don't know good solutions.

Also I think the conference is considerably worse across the board except maybe baseball? And I'm definitely including football in that metric. The CAA is a worse football conference than it was 10 years ago. Also worse at basketball and other sports too.

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04-16-2021 02:54 PM
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
(04-16-2021 02:54 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  I just don't know. I've really come to hate the CAA. It's mostly teams I don't give a second thought to managed by an incompetent idiot. It's slightly better with the FB schools but not nearly enough. The issue is that the Patriot just doesn't move the needle for me. Like Colgate? Bucknell? I'd rather we try to be a creative independent maybe? I just don't know good solutions.

Also I think the conference is considerably worse across the board except maybe baseball? And I'm definitely including football in that metric. The CAA is a worse football conference than it was 10 years ago. Also worse at basketball and other sports too.

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Really? Football? Check the number of CAA teams in the top 25.

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04-16-2021 02:55 PM
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Tank55 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
(04-16-2021 02:14 PM)Tribal Wrote:  
(04-16-2021 01:51 PM)Tank55 Wrote:  Football is stronger? The late 2000s/early 2010s were the glory days, IMO. Depth, quality, and exposure. In what ways are we better off today?

The CAA...THE CAA...THE CONFERENCE is stronger now than it was during the VCU/GMU era, save basketball. I've now stated that four distinct times.

I know what you mean; I'm asking for an explanation. In what ways is CAA football "decidedly stronger" than it was 12 years ago?

(04-16-2021 02:55 PM)Tribal Wrote:  Really? Football? Check the number of CAA teams in the top 25.

OK. At random, here is end of season for 2011 by The Sports Network. I count Maine, Towson, Old Dominion, New Hampshire, James Madison, Delaware.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_NCAA_...l_rankings

And currently, I count James Madison, Delaware, Villanova, Richmond, Rhode Island.

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/football/f...fcs-top-25
(This post was last modified: 04-16-2021 03:26 PM by Tank55.)
04-16-2021 03:24 PM
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Tank55 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
I mean, the CAA sent five different schools to the FCS Championship from 2006-2010, with only one school appearing twice. UMass, Delaware, Richmond, Villanova, Delaware. That was just incredible. From an on-field standpoint (and I know that's not the only consideration), I don't see how it can get much better than that, where you have parity within your league and dominance outside of it.
04-16-2021 03:37 PM
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TDenverFan Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
I don't think the CAA is a good conference for anyone at the moment really, but I still like it more than the Patriot. Some sort of reshuffling to create a more mid Atlantic focused conference would be nice.
04-16-2021 04:16 PM
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WMInTheBurg Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
The CAA is far from perfect, but if we're going to spend the time to change conferences there should be a good reason. Moving to the Patriot is giving up on sports. Going through all the effort to save 7 sports, just to move to the Patriot? Cut out the athletic department altogether, saves money and accomplishes the same thing.
04-16-2021 10:27 PM
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A Quest Called Tribe Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
I don’t like the trajectory of CAA basketball but I don’t think we have the clout to do anything about it. Start dominating the league every year and our negotiating position improves considerably.
04-17-2021 08:49 AM
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Florida tribe fan Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
(04-15-2021 07:47 PM)WMSportsBlog Wrote:  With W&M's struggles of this past year in the rear-view & a new AD expected to be hired in the coming months, we ask the question: should W&M consider pursuing the PATRIOT LEAGUE? The arguments for W&M in the Patriot make sense...

Read our article here exploring the topic. But would love to hear informed opinions on the topic here (and get everyone's thoughts on the article itself). LET'S GO TRIBE

Article: https://wmsportsblog.com/2021/04/16/shou...ot-league/

The preliminary results of the request for informed opinions requested above on whether Wm & Mary should pursue Patriot League membership are interesting when compiled in one place.

Would note at the outset that one Maine fan thinks it's a splendid idea. That said, eleven Tribe fans expressed opinions ranging from apathy to concern to dismay, offering a variety of reasons. To summarize:

Because the "Patriot League sucks." And because going Patriot League would be the same as going NAIA or club sports, and because going to the Patriot League is giving up on sports.

Because the authors mistakenly compared CAA football members to Patriot League basketball members.

Because the thread is DOA.

Because of reasons posted to Facebook (as someone whose life is unimproved by Facebook, am unable to provide in this summary).

Because Wm & Mary should mirror Richmond and join the A-10 and stay in CAA for football.

Because Wm & Mary used to play big name schools on its fields/courts, and because the College President will be growing enrollment, and because this should make us hopeful more big name schools will return to playing on Wm & Mary's fields/courts.

Because the ODAC is a closer fit than the Patriot League.

Because the CAA is stronger now, except for basketball.

Because Wm & Mary should "try to be a creative independent."

Because Wm & Mary should engage in "some sort of reshuffling to create a more mid Atlantic focused conference."

Personally, am disinclined to be too harsh on the authors because it's unclear anyone at the College has ever done a particularly good job at assimilating data about conference fit. If this work exists, I don't recall having seen it. What might improve their blog is some additional data/analysis:

How does Wm & Mary undergrad enrollment stack up against Patriot League and CAA members?
How do Wm & Mary coaching salaries compare against those for Patriot League and CAA?
What is the comparative Olympic sports overlap for each of the conferences?
Which conference is likely to have more stable membership going forward?
What are the likely future rivalry opportunities for each league. And along those lines would, for example, alumni events at Georgetown and Fordham football games turn out more than at Albany and Towson?
What is anticipated impact on basketball attendance?

I think it's a useful exercise in conjunction with the "All In" initiative. If the vision is to raise $55M, continue to produce the same competitive outcomes, but just not have to worry about money, there may be some disappointed stakeholders.
04-17-2021 11:07 AM
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Florida tribe fan Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
(04-17-2021 11:07 AM)Florida tribe fan Wrote:  
(04-15-2021 07:47 PM)WMSportsBlog Wrote:  With W&M's struggles of this past year in the rear-view & a new AD expected to be hired in the coming months, we ask the question: should W&M consider pursuing the PATRIOT LEAGUE? The arguments for W&M in the Patriot make sense...

Read our article here exploring the topic. But would love to hear informed opinions on the topic here (and get everyone's thoughts on the article itself). LET'S GO TRIBE

Article: https://wmsportsblog.com/2021/04/16/shou...ot-league/

The preliminary results of the request for informed opinions requested above on whether Wm & Mary should pursue Patriot League membership are interesting when compiled in one place.

Would note at the outset that one Maine fan thinks it's a splendid idea. That said, eleven Tribe fans expressed opinions ranging from apathy to concern to dismay, offering a variety of reasons. To summarize:

Because the "Patriot League sucks." And because going Patriot League would be the same as going NAIA or club sports, and because going to the Patriot League is giving up on sports.

Because the authors mistakenly compared CAA football members to Patriot League basketball members.

Because the thread is DOA.

Because of reasons posted to Facebook (as someone whose life is unimproved by Facebook, am unable to provide in this summary).

Because Wm & Mary should mirror Richmond and join the A-10 and stay in CAA for football.

Because Wm & Mary used to play big name schools on its fields/courts, and because the College President will be growing enrollment, and because this should make us hopeful more big name schools will return to playing on Wm & Mary's fields/courts.

Because the ODAC is a closer fit than the Patriot League.

Because the CAA is stronger now, except for basketball.

Because Wm & Mary should "try to be a creative independent."

Because Wm & Mary should engage in "some sort of reshuffling to create a more mid Atlantic focused conference."

Personally, am disinclined to be too harsh on the authors because it's unclear anyone at the College has ever done a particularly good job at assimilating data about conference fit. If this work exists, I don't recall having seen it. What might improve their blog is some additional data/analysis:

How does Wm & Mary undergrad enrollment stack up against Patriot League and CAA members?
How do Wm & Mary coaching salaries compare against those for Patriot League and CAA?
What is the comparative Olympic sports overlap for each of the conferences?
Which conference is likely to have more stable membership going forward?
What are the likely future rivalry opportunities for each league. And along those lines would, for example, would alumni events at Georgetown and Fordham football games turn out more than at Albany and Towson?
What is anticipated impact on basketball attendance?

I think it's a useful exercise in conjunction with the "All In" initiative. If the vision is to raise $55M, continue to produce the same competitive outcomes, but just not have to worry about money, there may be some disappointed stakeholders.
04-17-2021 11:10 AM
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Tribe4SF Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
(04-17-2021 11:10 AM)Florida tribe fan Wrote:  
(04-17-2021 11:07 AM)Florida tribe fan Wrote:  
(04-15-2021 07:47 PM)WMSportsBlog Wrote:  With W&M's struggles of this past year in the rear-view & a new AD expected to be hired in the coming months, we ask the question: should W&M consider pursuing the PATRIOT LEAGUE? The arguments for W&M in the Patriot make sense...

Read our article here exploring the topic. But would love to hear informed opinions on the topic here (and get everyone's thoughts on the article itself). LET'S GO TRIBE

Article: https://wmsportsblog.com/2021/04/16/shou...ot-league/

The preliminary results of the request for informed opinions requested above on whether Wm & Mary should pursue Patriot League membership are interesting when compiled in one place.

Would note at the outset that one Maine fan thinks it's a splendid idea. That said, eleven Tribe fans expressed opinions ranging from apathy to concern to dismay, offering a variety of reasons. To summarize:

Because the "Patriot League sucks." And because going Patriot League would be the same as going NAIA or club sports, and because going to the Patriot League is giving up on sports.

Because the authors mistakenly compared CAA football members to Patriot League basketball members.

Because the thread is DOA.

Because of reasons posted to Facebook (as someone whose life is unimproved by Facebook, am unable to provide in this summary).

Because Wm & Mary should mirror Richmond and join the A-10 and stay in CAA for football.

Because Wm & Mary used to play big name schools on its fields/courts, and because the College President will be growing enrollment, and because this should make us hopeful more big name schools will return to playing on Wm & Mary's fields/courts.

Because the ODAC is a closer fit than the Patriot League.

Because the CAA is stronger now, except for basketball.

Because Wm & Mary should "try to be a creative independent."

Because Wm & Mary should engage in "some sort of reshuffling to create a more mid Atlantic focused conference."

Personally, am disinclined to be too harsh on the authors because it's unclear anyone at the College has ever done a particularly good job at assimilating data about conference fit. If this work exists, I don't recall having seen it. What might improve their blog is some additional data/analysis:

How does Wm & Mary undergrad enrollment stack up against Patriot League and CAA members?
How do Wm & Mary coaching salaries compare against those for Patriot League and CAA?
What is the comparative Olympic sports overlap for each of the conferences?
Which conference is likely to have more stable membership going forward?
What are the likely future rivalry opportunities for each league. And along those lines would, for example, would alumni events at Georgetown and Fordham football games turn out more than at Albany and Towson?
What is anticipated impact on basketball attendance?

I think it's a useful exercise in conjunction with the "All In" initiative. If the vision is to raise $55M, continue to produce the same competitive outcomes, but just not have to worry about money, there may be some disappointed stakeholders.

Interesting that you choose Georgetown and Fordham for analysis of alumni turnout. Georgetown, by the way, plays in a tiny stadium that only sells tickets the day of the game. Tribe fans would outnumber Hoyas and some Tribe fans might not even get in to the game. And why contrast just with Towson and Albany? Maybe Delaware and Stony Brook would serve just as well. Or JMU and Richmond for that matter.

I outlined in the Facebook discussion why a PL move for football was very bad idea. This recurring discussion can't end soon enough for me.
04-17-2021 11:51 AM
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WMInTheBurg Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
(04-17-2021 11:10 AM)Florida tribe fan Wrote:  How does Wm & Mary undergrad enrollment stack up against Patriot League and CAA members?
How do Wm & Mary coaching salaries compare against those for Patriot League and CAA?
What is the comparative Olympic sports overlap for each of the conferences?
Which conference is likely to have more stable membership going forward?
What are the likely future rivalry opportunities for each league. And along those lines would, for example, would alumni events at Georgetown and Fordham football games turn out more than at Albany and Towson?
What is anticipated impact on basketball attendance?

In order:
Not gonna spend that time.
Not gonna spend that time.
Doesn't really matter.
Not possible to make anything that's remotely a good prediction.
CAA = existing rivalries, including some of our historically longest. Patriot = none at all. Patriot includes the bad Georgetown fanbase, i.e. not basketball, and does any other school there have a fanbase?
Basketball attendance impact would be best case unchanged. Nobody in the Patriot League is bringing more fans than we already get.

Is the opinion being peddled that W&M can't compete in the CAA? If so, I would point to the total CAA championships, and the purported competitiveness of the olympic sports that were just spared the axe. It cannot be argued that we were losing championship caliber programs and also that we can't compete in the conference that we are in.

In summary, these are the types of threads that start when football and basketball aren't in season. They're not worth serious examination.
04-17-2021 05:02 PM
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Purplehazed Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
I would like to see W&M join the PL for a selfish reason, it would put a lot of pressure on JMU to finally address conference.
04-17-2021 06:33 PM
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Tank55 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
The last time the FCS playoffs had 16 teams, it was 2009. CAA sent four teams (UR, Nova, UNH, W&M). This year, CAA sends just two (JMU, UD). The one caveat is that the are fewer at large bids available (10 AQs in 2021; 8 in 2009), and it's probable that UR was the last team out. Still, CAA has clearly been surpassed by the Missouri Valley as the top FCS conference.
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2021 11:19 AM by Tank55.)
04-18-2021 11:19 AM
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HyperDuke Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
Richmond wasn’t even in the first 4 out. They MIGHT have snuck in with a win yesterday. But turns out, Richmond is terrible and they lost.
04-18-2021 11:28 AM
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Zorch Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
(04-18-2021 11:19 AM)Tank55 Wrote:  The last time the FCS playoffs had 16 teams, it was 2009. CAA sent four teams (UR, Nova, UNH, W&M). This year, CAA sends just two (JMU, UD). The one caveat is that the are fewer at large bids available (10 AQs in 2021; 8 in 2009), and it's probable that UR was the last team out. Still, CAA has clearly been surpassed by the Missouri Valley as the top FCS conference.

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(This post was last modified: 04-18-2021 12:29 PM by Zorch.)
04-18-2021 12:27 PM
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LeadBolt Offline
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Post: #39
Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
I’d rather see us back in the SoCon than in the Patriot.


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04-18-2021 01:56 PM
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #40
Should W&M Join the Patriot League?
Comparing a "normal" season to covid season where some teams only played 3 games (and some teams didn't play at all) may be the silliest thing I've seen on a message board.

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(This post was last modified: 04-18-2021 05:42 PM by Tribal.)
04-18-2021 05:41 PM
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