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Julian Edelman
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anti-zip Offline
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Post: #1
Julian Edelman
Edelman announced his retirement today. Hell of a career. Wouldn't be surprised if we see him on the sideline somewhere in the future.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Edelman11/sta...2570170373
04-12-2021 07:33 PM
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ilovegymnast Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Julian Edelman
I would hope that we give him a call when we lose Lewis.
04-12-2021 09:48 PM
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ksu315 Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Julian Edelman
we'll see him in Tampa with Brady and Gronk by the 4th of July
04-13-2021 07:52 AM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Julian Edelman
04-13-2021 10:30 AM
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dannyb73 Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Julian Edelman
For those that were saying JE was headed for Canton. He was a helluva a player and is a great ambassador for KSU, but has no shot.

"It should be obvious to all, with little more than a glance, that advocating for Julian Edelman as a candidate for the Pro Football Hall of Fame is preposterous. He is 75th in career receptions with 620, though his career encompassed the most pass-happy period in the league’s history. He is 156th in receiving yards. He is 261st in receiving touchdowns."

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news...p2xc7pl7za
04-13-2021 02:05 PM
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anti-zip Offline
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RE: Julian Edelman
(04-13-2021 02:05 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  For those that were saying JE was headed for Canton. He was a helluva a player and is a great ambassador for KSU, but has no shot.

"It should be obvious to all, with little more than a glance, that advocating for Julian Edelman as a candidate for the Pro Football Hall of Fame is preposterous. He is 75th in career receptions with 620, though his career encompassed the most pass-happy period in the league’s history. He is 156th in receiving yards. He is 261st in receiving touchdowns."

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news...p2xc7pl7za

I give your post a 0 out of 10, wouldn't read again, and give it one of my hardest eye rolls of the year.

I figured I'd leave the HOF out of discussion here since we've argued about that on this board in the past and instead just let this thread be about his career. I know I won't change your mind and figured there's no reason to rehash it. But I see that your first thought on his retirement was to go find the first article you could saying he's not a HOFer... to remind us how right you are. Here's what I'll say about that article... I didn't make it past the author because...I don't give a single flying fu%k what a college basketball columnist, I've never heard of, thinks about an NFL players chances of making the HOF less than 24 hours after he announced his retirement. Note: It does say he "also frequently writes about soccer" which is Futbol everywhere else... so maybe that gives him more credibility than I'm giving him credit for.

Most arguments about Edelman making the HOF (mine included) assumed he'd be healthy past the age of 33 and end up closer to Jerry Rice in the postseason history. His body broke down and so you'll probably end up being right that this former Flash won't make the HOF. I still think there's a chance, but much smaller since he broke down this soon. If he doesn't make it, I promise to be very happy for you that you were right.
(This post was last modified: 04-13-2021 04:16 PM by anti-zip.)
04-13-2021 03:52 PM
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Polish Hammer Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Julian Edelman
I don’t think he’ll get in, but I’ll ride anti-zip coattails on this one. Giving regular season numbers for why he doesn’t get in leaves out his best work done in the playoffs against the best opponents under the brightest lights. Again, I don’t see him in, borderline and I’m sure the suspension crushed any benefit of the doubt for those with a say. That said, congrats on an amazing career, it did not come easy, there is no magic pill or magic secret to get you where he went and then achieve what he did. 04-bow
04-13-2021 04:06 PM
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dannyb73 Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Julian Edelman
(04-13-2021 03:52 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  
(04-13-2021 02:05 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  For those that were saying JE was headed for Canton. He was a helluva a player and is a great ambassador for KSU, but has no shot.

"It should be obvious to all, with little more than a glance, that advocating for Julian Edelman as a candidate for the Pro Football Hall of Fame is preposterous. He is 75th in career receptions with 620, though his career encompassed the most pass-happy period in the league’s history. He is 156th in receiving yards. He is 261st in receiving touchdowns."

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news...p2xc7pl7za

I give your post a 0 out of 10, wouldn't read again, and give it one of my hardest eye rolls of the year.

I figured I'd leave the HOF out of discussion here since we've argued about that on this board in the past and instead just let this thread be about his career. I know I won't change your mind and figured there's no reason to rehash it. But I see that your first thought on his retirement was to go find the first article you could saying he's not a HOFer... to remind us how right you are. Here's what I'll say about that article... I didn't make it past the author because...I don't give a single flying fu%k what a college basketball columnist, I've never heard of, thinks about an NFL players chances of making the HOF less than 24 hours after he announced his retirement. Note: It does say he "also frequently writes about soccer" which is Futbol everywhere else... so maybe that gives him more credibility than I'm giving him credit for.

Most arguments about Edelman making the HOF (mine included) assumed he'd be healthy past the age of 33 and end up closer to Jerry Rice in the postseason history. His body broke down and so you'll probably end up being right that this former Flash won't make the HOF. I still think there's a chance, but much smaller since he broke down this soon. If he doesn't make it, I promise to be very happy for you that you were right.

If you don’t know who Mike DeCourcy is then I cannot help you. And it wasn’t my first thought at all. I follow Mike on Twitter and without my coersion he happened to write this article which I stumbled across. So I posted it here for all to read.
04-13-2021 04:41 PM
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anti-zip Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Julian Edelman
(04-13-2021 04:41 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  
(04-13-2021 03:52 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  
(04-13-2021 02:05 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  For those that were saying JE was headed for Canton. He was a helluva a player and is a great ambassador for KSU, but has no shot.

"It should be obvious to all, with little more than a glance, that advocating for Julian Edelman as a candidate for the Pro Football Hall of Fame is preposterous. He is 75th in career receptions with 620, though his career encompassed the most pass-happy period in the league’s history. He is 156th in receiving yards. He is 261st in receiving touchdowns."

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news...p2xc7pl7za

I give your post a 0 out of 10, wouldn't read again, and give it one of my hardest eye rolls of the year.

I figured I'd leave the HOF out of discussion here since we've argued about that on this board in the past and instead just let this thread be about his career. I know I won't change your mind and figured there's no reason to rehash it. But I see that your first thought on his retirement was to go find the first article you could saying he's not a HOFer... to remind us how right you are. Here's what I'll say about that article... I didn't make it past the author because...I don't give a single flying fu%k what a college basketball columnist, I've never heard of, thinks about an NFL players chances of making the HOF less than 24 hours after he announced his retirement. Note: It does say he "also frequently writes about soccer" which is Futbol everywhere else... so maybe that gives him more credibility than I'm giving him credit for.

Most arguments about Edelman making the HOF (mine included) assumed he'd be healthy past the age of 33 and end up closer to Jerry Rice in the postseason history. His body broke down and so you'll probably end up being right that this former Flash won't make the HOF. I still think there's a chance, but much smaller since he broke down this soon. If he doesn't make it, I promise to be very happy for you that you were right.

If you don’t know who Mike DeCourcy is then I cannot help you. And it wasn’t my first thought at all. I follow Mike on Twitter and without my coersion he happened to write this article which I stumbled across. So I posted it here for all to read.

You dropped into a thread about Edelman's early retirement where the HOF had not been mentioned to say "He's not a HOFer! See this college basketball writer I follow on twitter says so!". You can see how lame this is right? The guy had to retire before I'm sure he wanted to, because his body was quiting on him which obviously hurts his chances at making the HOF. And your first contribution to the thread about his retirement, on his alma maters message board, was to say he shouldn't make the HOF. It would sort of be like a Bulls fan gloating when Jordan retired (the first or second time) "I told ya he'd never get 4 in a row."
04-13-2021 05:06 PM
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bopol Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Julian Edelman
I'm curious where everyone would think that Edelman ranks on all-time Kent athletes in the pros. My personal Top 4 is Thurmon Munson, Jack Lambert, Antonio Gates and Ben Curtis (no order implied). James Harrison would probably be next, but then you have the mix of Steve Stone, Dustin Hermanson, Mac Hughes, Corey Conners, Josh Cribbs, Rich Rollins and Edelman.
04-13-2021 06:42 PM
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dannyb73 Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Julian Edelman
(04-13-2021 05:06 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  
(04-13-2021 04:41 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  
(04-13-2021 03:52 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  
(04-13-2021 02:05 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  For those that were saying JE was headed for Canton. He was a helluva a player and is a great ambassador for KSU, but has no shot.

"It should be obvious to all, with little more than a glance, that advocating for Julian Edelman as a candidate for the Pro Football Hall of Fame is preposterous. He is 75th in career receptions with 620, though his career encompassed the most pass-happy period in the league’s history. He is 156th in receiving yards. He is 261st in receiving touchdowns."

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news...p2xc7pl7za

I give your post a 0 out of 10, wouldn't read again, and give it one of my hardest eye rolls of the year.

I figured I'd leave the HOF out of discussion here since we've argued about that on this board in the past and instead just let this thread be about his career. I know I won't change your mind and figured there's no reason to rehash it. But I see that your first thought on his retirement was to go find the first article you could saying he's not a HOFer... to remind us how right you are. Here's what I'll say about that article... I didn't make it past the author because...I don't give a single flying fu%k what a college basketball columnist, I've never heard of, thinks about an NFL players chances of making the HOF less than 24 hours after he announced his retirement. Note: It does say he "also frequently writes about soccer" which is Futbol everywhere else... so maybe that gives him more credibility than I'm giving him credit for.

Most arguments about Edelman making the HOF (mine included) assumed he'd be healthy past the age of 33 and end up closer to Jerry Rice in the postseason history. His body broke down and so you'll probably end up being right that this former Flash won't make the HOF. I still think there's a chance, but much smaller since he broke down this soon. If he doesn't make it, I promise to be very happy for you that you were right.

If you don’t know who Mike DeCourcy is then I cannot help you. And it wasn’t my first thought at all. I follow Mike on Twitter and without my coersion he happened to write this article which I stumbled across. So I posted it here for all to read.

You dropped into a thread about Edelman's early retirement where the HOF had not been mentioned to say "He's not a HOFer! See this college basketball writer I follow on twitter says so!". You can see how lame this is right? The guy had to retire before I'm sure he wanted to, because his body was quiting on him which obviously hurts his chances at making the HOF. And your first contribution to the thread about his retirement, on his alma maters message board, was to say he shouldn't make the HOF. It would sort of be like a Bulls fan gloating when Jordan retired (the first or second time) "I told ya he'd never get 4 in a row."

I flatly stated "He was a helluva a player and is a great ambassador for KSU". If you choose to spin this negative because I linked an article from a NATIONAL sportswriter who touched on a topic we had previously discussed on this forum (that is now a relevant topic since JE has retired), have fun.
04-13-2021 08:06 PM
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anti-zip Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Julian Edelman
(04-13-2021 08:06 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  
(04-13-2021 05:06 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  
(04-13-2021 04:41 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  
(04-13-2021 03:52 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  
(04-13-2021 02:05 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  For those that were saying JE was headed for Canton. He was a helluva a player and is a great ambassador for KSU, but has no shot.

"It should be obvious to all, with little more than a glance, that advocating for Julian Edelman as a candidate for the Pro Football Hall of Fame is preposterous. He is 75th in career receptions with 620, though his career encompassed the most pass-happy period in the league’s history. He is 156th in receiving yards. He is 261st in receiving touchdowns."

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news...p2xc7pl7za

I give your post a 0 out of 10, wouldn't read again, and give it one of my hardest eye rolls of the year.

I figured I'd leave the HOF out of discussion here since we've argued about that on this board in the past and instead just let this thread be about his career. I know I won't change your mind and figured there's no reason to rehash it. But I see that your first thought on his retirement was to go find the first article you could saying he's not a HOFer... to remind us how right you are. Here's what I'll say about that article... I didn't make it past the author because...I don't give a single flying fu%k what a college basketball columnist, I've never heard of, thinks about an NFL players chances of making the HOF less than 24 hours after he announced his retirement. Note: It does say he "also frequently writes about soccer" which is Futbol everywhere else... so maybe that gives him more credibility than I'm giving him credit for.

Most arguments about Edelman making the HOF (mine included) assumed he'd be healthy past the age of 33 and end up closer to Jerry Rice in the postseason history. His body broke down and so you'll probably end up being right that this former Flash won't make the HOF. I still think there's a chance, but much smaller since he broke down this soon. If he doesn't make it, I promise to be very happy for you that you were right.

If you don’t know who Mike DeCourcy is then I cannot help you. And it wasn’t my first thought at all. I follow Mike on Twitter and without my coersion he happened to write this article which I stumbled across. So I posted it here for all to read.

You dropped into a thread about Edelman's early retirement where the HOF had not been mentioned to say "He's not a HOFer! See this college basketball writer I follow on twitter says so!". You can see how lame this is right? The guy had to retire before I'm sure he wanted to, because his body was quiting on him which obviously hurts his chances at making the HOF. And your first contribution to the thread about his retirement, on his alma maters message board, was to say he shouldn't make the HOF. It would sort of be like a Bulls fan gloating when Jordan retired (the first or second time) "I told ya he'd never get 4 in a row."

I flatly stated "He was a helluva a player and is a great ambassador for KSU". If you choose to spin this negative because I linked an article from a NATIONAL sportswriter who touched on a topic we had previously discussed on this forum (that is now a relevant topic since JE has retired), have fun.

Your literal first line was "For those that were saying JE was headed to Canton...". If you want to spin that as you complimenting him, have fun.
04-13-2021 11:09 PM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Julian Edelman
Good comment, Bopol. The first names that came to mind are Larry Faulk in football. After Kent State he became Abdul Salaam with the New York Jets. And Gene Michael in baseball, a long-time major league shortstop who passed away a few years ago. Oh, and how about Don Nottingham (football)? he was a good NFL running back.
04-14-2021 06:39 AM
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bopol Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Julian Edelman
(04-14-2021 06:39 AM)Muskrat Wrote:  Good comment, Bopol. The first names that came to mind are Larry Faulk in football. After Kent State he became Abdul Salaam with the New York Jets. And Gene Michael in baseball, a long-time major league shortstop who passed away a few years ago. Oh, and how about Don Nottingham (football)? he was a good NFL running back.

I don’t remember how good Salaam was in the NFL as that was before my time and there aren’t good stats on LBs. Nottingham was a solid RB for a few years. He could crack the top 10. Michael really couldn’t hit major league pitching, so that’s why I didn’t include him. I would place him below Munson, Stone, Rollins and Hermanson as well as Travis Shaw and probably Andrew Chafin in baseball as well.

Okay, my Top 8 (welcome to comments that I will consider changes)

1. Jack Lambert (HOF LB)
2. Antonio Gates (should be HOF TE and redefined position)
3. Thurman Munson (one of the best Catchers in baseball in 70s)
4. Ben Curtis (4 PGA wins including the British Open)
5. James Harrison (5 time Pro-Bowl LB)
6. Justin Edelman
7. Steve Stone (good starting pitcher; won Cy Young Award)
8. Josh Cribbs (3 Pro Bowls)

Now it gets really tough to compare between good starters but never stars in several sports, so I will make an honorable mentions category:

Baseball: Rich Rollins, Dustin Hermanson and Travis Shaw
Golf: Corey Conners and Mackenzie Hughes
Football: Cedric Brown, Abuul Salaam and Don Nottingham
04-14-2021 11:26 AM
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Albert Flasher Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Julian Edelman
(04-14-2021 11:26 AM)bopol Wrote:  
(04-14-2021 06:39 AM)Muskrat Wrote:  Good comment, Bopol. The first names that came to mind are Larry Faulk in football. After Kent State he became Abdul Salaam with the New York Jets. And Gene Michael in baseball, a long-time major league shortstop who passed away a few years ago. Oh, and how about Don Nottingham (football)? he was a good NFL running back.

I don’t remember how good Salaam was in the NFL as that was before my time and there aren’t good stats on LBs. Nottingham was a solid RB for a few years. He could crack the top 10. Michael really couldn’t hit major league pitching, so that’s why I didn’t include him. I would place him below Munson, Stone, Rollins and Hermanson as well as Travis Shaw and probably Andrew Chafin in baseball as well.

Okay, my Top 8 (welcome to comments that I will consider changes)

1. Jack Lambert (HOF LB)
2. Antonio Gates (should be HOF TE and redefined position)
3. Thurman Munson (one of the best Catchers in baseball in 70s)
4. Ben Curtis (4 PGA wins including the British Open)
5. James Harrison (5 time Pro-Bowl LB)
6. Justin Edelman
7. Steve Stone (good starting pitcher; won Cy Young Award)
8. Josh Cribbs (3 Pro Bowls)

Now it gets really tough to compare between good starters but never stars in several sports, so I will make an honorable mentions category:

Baseball: Rich Rollins, Dustin Hermanson and Travis Shaw
Golf: Corey Conners and Mackenzie Hughes
Football: Cedric Brown, Abuul Salaam and Don Nottingham

Track & Field: Gerald Tinker, Olympic Gold Medalist. KSU track & field is underappreciated. Jud Logan (Olympian), Reggie Jagers, Al Schoterman (Olympian), Jacques Accambray, Len Turner, Danniel Thomas-Dodd (Olympian), TJ Lawson, Thomas Jefferson (Olympian). Among others that I have probably missed.
04-14-2021 11:47 AM
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dannyb73 Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Julian Edelman
Dustin Kilgore anyone?
04-14-2021 11:57 AM
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anti-zip Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Julian Edelman
(04-13-2021 06:42 PM)bopol Wrote:  I'm curious where everyone would think that Edelman ranks on all-time Kent athletes in the pros. My personal Top 4 is Thurmon Munson, Jack Lambert, Antonio Gates and Ben Curtis (no order implied). James Harrison would probably be next, but then you have the mix of Steve Stone, Dustin Hermanson, Mac Hughes, Corey Conners, Josh Cribbs, Rich Rollins and Edelman.

Munson and Lambert are before my time, but I think I'd put Edelman in my top 5. There's actually an interesting debate to be had between Gates and Edelman in my opinion. I read an interesting comment about Edelman the other day. You can't tell the story of the 2010's in the NFL without him. I think 20 years from now Edelman will be remembered more by the typical NFL fan. Gates was of course a pioneer for the TE position, but his lack of big game moments will probably make Edelman's legacy live on a littler better.

Gates has the obvious statistical edge over Edelman, in the regular season. But when you compare the prime of their careers they're actually a lot closer than you'd think.

Edelman's prime went from 2013-2019. A 7 year period but only 6 seasons due to the torn ACL in 2017. Those 6 seasons he played 83 games (missed 13 games), had 574 touches, 6112 yards from scrimmage, and 32 TDs.

Gates' prime lasted longer (2004-2011) so that's 8 seasons where he played all 8 (only missed 10 games over that 8 seasons). He played 117 games, had 569 touches, 7394 yards from scrimmage, and 74 TDs.

Comparing the prime of their career in the playoffs looks like this.

Edelman during his prime years:
Played in 14 playoff games, had 118 touches, 1438 yards from scrimmage (102.7 yards per game), and 4 touchdowns.

Gates during his prime years:
Played in 8 playoff games, had 39 touches, 449 yards from scrimmage (56.1 yards per game), and 1 touchdown.

The edges that go to Gates are:
1. Durability.
2. Touchdowns.
3. Longevity of his career. (he was able to accumulate stats for many more years after his prime).

The edges that go to Edelman are:
1. Playoff production across the board.
2. Doing things outside of the 'standard role' for his position.

What I mean by that is Edelman was a great punt return before and during the prime of his career, and he became a very good blocking receiver. Gates was never a notable special teams player nor was he known as a good blocker. Ironically, the extra contributions from Edelman likely contributed to his durability issues and early retirement, because he was giving up his body on plays outside of the 'normal' role for a receiver.

One other interesting point about Edelman's regular season stats that I think is constantly left out of the conversation when people knock him for it...he didn't get an opportunity to accumulate stats outside of the prime of his career. He only had 786 yards from scrimmage across the first 4 seasons of his career. However, he was an elite return man during that time. So it's not like he wasn't contributing. Also, it's a little unfair to compare him to typical WR's (especially early picks) because he came into the league and was forced to learn a position he'd never played before just to survive in the league (return man), and he was forced to learn another position he'd never played before (WR) all at the highest level of Football. Then people want to knock him for not having better regular season stats? Well no s#!t, of course it was going to take him longer to start accumulating stats.

Lastly, I'll say one more thing about the Edelman HOF conversation that really irks me. I have no problem with anyone saying they don't think he should make it. Where I get pissed is when people act out right offended that it's even a conversation. I think it's an insult to what he did in his career for someone to say even talking about it is "Ludacris" or "Preposterous". Especially when plenty of players that played with him and against him think he should get in. NFL.com had an article the other day asking multiple personalities the question, where the answers were pretty evenly split. I found it interesting that of the former players every WR or DB said yes, every other player said no. If Steve Smith Jr is saying "Hell yeah" when asked if he should get in, how can some rando reporters that never played the game be beside themselves that the conversation is happening? It's sort of a microcosm of our society as a whole right now. Everyone has handlined opinions on everything, and get angry that someone could even entertain disagreeing with them.

It's sort of ironic that the thing that almost kept him out of the NFL is the same thing that is held against him for the HOF discussion. He came into the league as a football player without a position. He ended up having a career where he affected the game in a lot of ways outside of 'standard WR' role, because... he was a football player without a position. Then people say 'Well, he didn't do what other players in his position do as well as they did' and completely ignore everything that he did much better outside of the typical WR role.
(This post was last modified: 04-14-2021 12:03 PM by anti-zip.)
04-14-2021 12:00 PM
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Albert Flasher Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Julian Edelman
(04-14-2021 11:57 AM)dannyb73 Wrote:  Dustin Kilgore anyone?

Wrestling: Dolph Ziggler (aka Nick Nemeth). WWE Intercontinental Champion, US Champion.
04-14-2021 12:02 PM
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dannyb73 Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Julian Edelman
(04-14-2021 12:00 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  
(04-13-2021 06:42 PM)bopol Wrote:  I'm curious where everyone would think that Edelman ranks on all-time Kent athletes in the pros. My personal Top 4 is Thurmon Munson, Jack Lambert, Antonio Gates and Ben Curtis (no order implied). James Harrison would probably be next, but then you have the mix of Steve Stone, Dustin Hermanson, Mac Hughes, Corey Conners, Josh Cribbs, Rich Rollins and Edelman.

Munson and Lambert are before my time, but I think I'd put Edelman in my top 5. There's actually an interesting debate to be had between Gates and Edelman in my opinion. I read an interesting comment about Edelman the other day. You can't tell the story of the 2010's in the NFL without him. I think 20 years from now Edelman will be remembered more by the typical NFL fan. Gates was of course a pioneer for the TE position, but his lack of big game moments will probably make Edelman's legacy live on a littler better.

Gates has the obvious statistical edge over Edelman, in the regular season. But when you compare the prime of their careers they're actually a lot closer than you'd think.

Edelman's prime went from 2013-2019. A 7 year period but only 6 seasons due to the torn ACL in 2017. Those 6 seasons he played 83 games (missed 13 games), had 574 touches, 6112 yards from scrimmage, and 32 TDs.

Gates' prime lasted longer (2004-2011) so that's 8 seasons where he played all 8 (only missed 10 games over that 8 seasons). He played 117 games, had 569 touches, 7394 yards from scrimmage, and 74 TDs.

Comparing the prime of their career in the playoffs looks like this.

Edelman during his prime years:
Played in 14 playoff games, had 118 touches, 1438 yards from scrimmage (102.7 yards per game), and 4 touchdowns.

Gates during his prime years:
Played in 8 playoff games, had 39 touches, 449 yards from scrimmage (56.1 yards per game), and 1 touchdown.

The edges that go to Gates are:
1. Durability.
2. Touchdowns.
3. Longevity of his career. (he was able to accumulate stats for many more years after his prime).

The edges that go to Edelman are:
1. Playoff production across the board.
2. Doing things outside of the 'standard role' for his position.

What I mean by that is Edelman was a great punt return before and during the prime of his career, and he became a very good blocking receiver. Gates was never a notable special teams player nor was he known as a good blocker. Ironically, the extra contributions from Edelman likely contributed to his durability issues and early retirement, because he was giving up his body on plays outside of the 'normal' role for a receiver.

One other interesting point about Edelman's regular season stats that I think is constantly left out of the conversation when people knock him for it...he didn't get an opportunity to accumulate stats outside of the prime of his career. He only had 786 yards from scrimmage across the first 4 seasons of his career. However, he was an elite return man during that time. So it's not like he wasn't contributing. Also, it's a little unfair to compare him to typical WR's (especially early picks) because he came into the league and was forced to learn a position he'd never played before just to survive in the league (return man), and he was forced to learn another position he'd never played before (WR) all at the highest level of Football. Then people want to knock him for not having better regular season stats? Well no s#!t, of course it was going to take him longer to start accumulating stats.

Lastly, I'll say one more thing about the Edelman HOF conversation that really irks me. I have no problem with anyone saying they don't think he should make it. Where I get pissed is when people act out right offended that it's even a conversation. I think it's an insult to what he did in his career for someone to say even talking about it is "Ludacris" or "Preposterous". Especially when plenty of players that played with him and against him think he should get in. NFL.com had an article the other day asking multiple personalities the question, where the answers were pretty evenly split. I found it interesting that of the former players every WR or DB said yes, every other player said no. If Steve Smith Jr is saying "Hell yeah" when asked if he should get in, how can some rando reporters that never played the game be beside themselves that the conversation is happening? It's sort of a microcosm of our society as a whole right now. Everyone has handlined opinions on everything, and get angry that someone could even entertain disagreeing with them.

It's sort of ironic that the thing that almost kept him out of the NFL is the same thing that is held against him for the HOF discussion. He came into the league as a football player without a position. He ended up having a career where he affected the game in a lot of ways outside of 'standard WR' role, because... he was a football player without a position. Then people say 'Well, he didn't do what other players in his position do as well as they did' and completely ignore everything that he did much better outside of the typical WR role.

Antonio Gates is going to Canton.
04-14-2021 12:20 PM
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anti-zip Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Julian Edelman
(04-14-2021 12:20 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  
(04-14-2021 12:00 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  
(04-13-2021 06:42 PM)bopol Wrote:  I'm curious where everyone would think that Edelman ranks on all-time Kent athletes in the pros. My personal Top 4 is Thurmon Munson, Jack Lambert, Antonio Gates and Ben Curtis (no order implied). James Harrison would probably be next, but then you have the mix of Steve Stone, Dustin Hermanson, Mac Hughes, Corey Conners, Josh Cribbs, Rich Rollins and Edelman.

Munson and Lambert are before my time, but I think I'd put Edelman in my top 5. There's actually an interesting debate to be had between Gates and Edelman in my opinion. I read an interesting comment about Edelman the other day. You can't tell the story of the 2010's in the NFL without him. I think 20 years from now Edelman will be remembered more by the typical NFL fan. Gates was of course a pioneer for the TE position, but his lack of big game moments will probably make Edelman's legacy live on a littler better.

Gates has the obvious statistical edge over Edelman, in the regular season. But when you compare the prime of their careers they're actually a lot closer than you'd think.

Edelman's prime went from 2013-2019. A 7 year period but only 6 seasons due to the torn ACL in 2017. Those 6 seasons he played 83 games (missed 13 games), had 574 touches, 6112 yards from scrimmage, and 32 TDs.

Gates' prime lasted longer (2004-2011) so that's 8 seasons where he played all 8 (only missed 10 games over that 8 seasons). He played 117 games, had 569 touches, 7394 yards from scrimmage, and 74 TDs.

Comparing the prime of their career in the playoffs looks like this.

Edelman during his prime years:
Played in 14 playoff games, had 118 touches, 1438 yards from scrimmage (102.7 yards per game), and 4 touchdowns.

Gates during his prime years:
Played in 8 playoff games, had 39 touches, 449 yards from scrimmage (56.1 yards per game), and 1 touchdown.

The edges that go to Gates are:
1. Durability.
2. Touchdowns.
3. Longevity of his career. (he was able to accumulate stats for many more years after his prime).

The edges that go to Edelman are:
1. Playoff production across the board.
2. Doing things outside of the 'standard role' for his position.

What I mean by that is Edelman was a great punt return before and during the prime of his career, and he became a very good blocking receiver. Gates was never a notable special teams player nor was he known as a good blocker. Ironically, the extra contributions from Edelman likely contributed to his durability issues and early retirement, because he was giving up his body on plays outside of the 'normal' role for a receiver.

One other interesting point about Edelman's regular season stats that I think is constantly left out of the conversation when people knock him for it...he didn't get an opportunity to accumulate stats outside of the prime of his career. He only had 786 yards from scrimmage across the first 4 seasons of his career. However, he was an elite return man during that time. So it's not like he wasn't contributing. Also, it's a little unfair to compare him to typical WR's (especially early picks) because he came into the league and was forced to learn a position he'd never played before just to survive in the league (return man), and he was forced to learn another position he'd never played before (WR) all at the highest level of Football. Then people want to knock him for not having better regular season stats? Well no s#!t, of course it was going to take him longer to start accumulating stats.

Lastly, I'll say one more thing about the Edelman HOF conversation that really irks me. I have no problem with anyone saying they don't think he should make it. Where I get pissed is when people act out right offended that it's even a conversation. I think it's an insult to what he did in his career for someone to say even talking about it is "Ludacris" or "Preposterous". Especially when plenty of players that played with him and against him think he should get in. NFL.com had an article the other day asking multiple personalities the question, where the answers were pretty evenly split. I found it interesting that of the former players every WR or DB said yes, every other player said no. If Steve Smith Jr is saying "Hell yeah" when asked if he should get in, how can some rando reporters that never played the game be beside themselves that the conversation is happening? It's sort of a microcosm of our society as a whole right now. Everyone has handlined opinions on everything, and get angry that someone could even entertain disagreeing with them.

It's sort of ironic that the thing that almost kept him out of the NFL is the same thing that is held against him for the HOF discussion. He came into the league as a football player without a position. He ended up having a career where he affected the game in a lot of ways outside of 'standard WR' role, because... he was a football player without a position. Then people say 'Well, he didn't do what other players in his position do as well as they did' and completely ignore everything that he did much better outside of the typical WR role.

Antonio Gates is going to Canton.

Yes, he is....
04-14-2021 01:15 PM
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