The unofficial online home for fans of the Kent State University Golden Flashes. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

I don't think I can argue with the Top 8 mentioned earlier:

1. Jack Lambert (HOF LB)
2. Antonio Gates (should be HOF TE and redefined position)
3. Thurman Munson (one of the best Catchers in baseball in 70s)
4. Ben Curtis (4 PGA wins including the British Open)
5. James Harrison (5 time Pro-Bowl LB)
6. Justin Edelman
7. Steve Stone (good starting pitcher; won Cy Young Award)
8. Josh Cribbs (3 Pro Bowls)

I remember Munson well from his Stark County days, playing 3 sports at Canton Lehman HS and being a star in the local amateur Class A baseball league that was loaded with talent. In basketball, Munson never saw a shot he wouldn't take. He was pretty good, actually, but was known locally for how often he'd shoot. It seemed like it was every time he had the ball.

Using regular season stats to eliminate a player and not giving full consideration to major pist season accomplishments is just not how it works. If you think it is, you must think Eli Manning will not make the HOF. Really? No way he’s a HOF’er based on regular season stats, but two Super Bowl wins basic guarantees he’s in.

(04-14-2021 12:02 PM)Albert Flasher Wrote:  

(04-14-2021 11:57 AM)dannyb73 Wrote:  Dustin Kilgore anyone?

Wrestling: Dolph Ziggler (aka Nick Nemeth). WWE Intercontinental Champion, US Champion.

He’s a great performer, but professional wrestling matches are pre-determined.

Antizip, I think Gates blows away Edelman because Edelman was never an elite (All Pro) receiver and Gates was an elite tight end. Different positions needs to be taken into account. As far as postseason moments, there are always good players who have great postseason moments that get remembered better. I like Edelman for sure, but I don’t see him making the HOF given how gaudy some of the numbers need to be to get consideration.

Albert, I didn’t include Track and Field but should have. Thank you.

Kilgore was a great college athlete as good as many on the list. But his next level (international wrestling) was not as good as some of the pro athletes on the list. He was always stuck behind some great wrestlers and never wrestled in the Olympics or at the worlds. Id say he was better than a Nottingham or Michaels and maybe Hughes (depending on how he finishes his career) but top 10 would be a stretch.

Speaking of Gates, Antonio Gates Jr is a HS Jr right now. We're obviously not going to have a shot at him though with the offers he's getting.

https://247sports.com/player/antonio-gates-jr-46080049/

Rosie Nix has retired:

https://steelersdepot.com/2021/07/fb-roo...etirement/

(07-13-2021 09:36 AM)thanksjim Wrote:  Rosie Nix has retired:

https://steelersdepot.com/2021/07/fb-roo...etirement/

Hope we’re in contact with him. In the event that he ends up in the transfer portal it would benefit us to have established a relationship.

5 year career at FB. 5.7 mil career earnings. 2 tds, 1 pro bowl. Not bad for an undersized nose tackle from the MAC.

(04-14-2021 01:15 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  

(04-14-2021 12:20 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  

(04-14-2021 12:00 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 06:42 PM)bopol Wrote:  I'm curious where everyone would think that Edelman ranks on all-time Kent athletes in the pros. My personal Top 4 is Thurmon Munson, Jack Lambert, Antonio Gates and Ben Curtis (no order implied). James Harrison would probably be next, but then you have the mix of Steve Stone, Dustin Hermanson, Mac Hughes, Corey Conners, Josh Cribbs, Rich Rollins and Edelman.

Munson and Lambert are before my time, but I think I'd put Edelman in my top 5. There's actually an interesting debate to be had between Gates and Edelman in my opinion. I read an interesting comment about Edelman the other day. You can't tell the story of the 2010's in the NFL without him. I think 20 years from now Edelman will be remembered more by the typical NFL fan. Gates was of course a pioneer for the TE position, but his lack of big game moments will probably make Edelman's legacy live on a littler better.

Gates has the obvious statistical edge over Edelman, in the regular season. But when you compare the prime of their careers they're actually a lot closer than you'd think.

Edelman's prime went from 2013-2019. A 7 year period but only 6 seasons due to the torn ACL in 2017. Those 6 seasons he played 83 games (missed 13 games), had 574 touches, 6112 yards from scrimmage, and 32 TDs.

Gates' prime lasted longer (2004-2011) so that's 8 seasons where he played all 8 (only missed 10 games over that 8 seasons). He played 117 games, had 569 touches, 7394 yards from scrimmage, and 74 TDs.

Comparing the prime of their career in the playoffs looks like this.

Edelman during his prime years:
Played in 14 playoff games, had 118 touches, 1438 yards from scrimmage (102.7 yards per game), and 4 touchdowns.

Gates during his prime years:
Played in 8 playoff games, had 39 touches, 449 yards from scrimmage (56.1 yards per game), and 1 touchdown.

The edges that go to Gates are:
1. Durability.
2. Touchdowns.
3. Longevity of his career. (he was able to accumulate stats for many more years after his prime).

The edges that go to Edelman are:
1. Playoff production across the board.
2. Doing things outside of the 'standard role' for his position.

What I mean by that is Edelman was a great punt return before and during the prime of his career, and he became a very good blocking receiver. Gates was never a notable special teams player nor was he known as a good blocker. Ironically, the extra contributions from Edelman likely contributed to his durability issues and early retirement, because he was giving up his body on plays outside of the 'normal' role for a receiver.

One other interesting point about Edelman's regular season stats that I think is constantly left out of the conversation when people knock him for it...he didn't get an opportunity to accumulate stats outside of the prime of his career. He only had 786 yards from scrimmage across the first 4 seasons of his career. However, he was an elite return man during that time. So it's not like he wasn't contributing. Also, it's a little unfair to compare him to typical WR's (especially early picks) because he came into the league and was forced to learn a position he'd never played before just to survive in the league (return man), and he was forced to learn another position he'd never played before (WR) all at the highest level of Football. Then people want to knock him for not having better regular season stats? Well no s#!t, of course it was going to take him longer to start accumulating stats.

Lastly, I'll say one more thing about the Edelman HOF conversation that really irks me. I have no problem with anyone saying they don't think he should make it. Where I get pissed is when people act out right offended that it's even a conversation. I think it's an insult to what he did in his career for someone to say even talking about it is "Ludacris" or "Preposterous". Especially when plenty of players that played with him and against him think he should get in. NFL.com had an article the other day asking multiple personalities the question, where the answers were pretty evenly split. I found it interesting that of the former players every WR or DB said yes, every other player said no. If Steve Smith Jr is saying "Hell yeah" when asked if he should get in, how can some rando reporters that never played the game be beside themselves that the conversation is happening? It's sort of a microcosm of our society as a whole right now. Everyone has handlined opinions on everything, and get angry that someone could even entertain disagreeing with them.

It's sort of ironic that the thing that almost kept him out of the NFL is the same thing that is held against him for the HOF discussion. He came into the league as a football player without a position. He ended up having a career where he affected the game in a lot of ways outside of 'standard WR' role, because... he was a football player without a position. Then people say 'Well, he didn't do what other players in his position do as well as they did' and completely ignore everything that he did much better outside of the typical WR role.

Antonio Gates is going to Canton.

Yes, he is....

Great discussion
Gates a lock.
I was around for Munson and am a huge fan
Several things work against Munson HOF
1/ Length of service, I don’t agree but its what we hear
2/ Munson could be gruff with those he didn’t trust , especially
reporters. They have long memories and won’t vote for him because
of past interactions. It is a flaw in baseball HoF. It has nothing to do
with numbers.
3/ Ron Blomberg former Munson teammate and close friend has pushed
for years with no luck. He and others including Mickey Rivers have a voice .
4/. There are many others pushing Munson behind the scenes but time
is running out.