Hambone10
Hooter
Posts: 40,283
Joined: Nov 2005
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I Root For: My Kids
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RE: Over 500 White People Have Been Killed By Cops Since 2020. There Has Been No Rioting
(04-14-2021 02:54 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote: (04-14-2021 10:28 AM)Hambone10 Wrote: (04-14-2021 07:46 AM)VA49er Wrote: (04-13-2021 09:38 PM)Hambone10 Wrote: (04-13-2021 06:04 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote: If he's serious, it's so idiotic it doesn't require a response. He (and you) have fallen down the rabbit hole.
Its idiotic to ask someone to give examples to support their claim? Hint... I TOLD you that I could answer the question myself, so obviously I believe examples exist... but I want to see if you're intelligent enough to have your own ideas/have done enough research to argue your points coherently, or if I am simply engaging with 'troll of the day'. Your unwillingness to defend your claim, followed by the transparent deflection of 'if you need me to explain it, you're down a rabbit hole' tripe is only worth on the elementary school playground.
Sounds like your question has been answered.
Exactly.
This moron is telling ME to open a few books... lol.
The amusing thing is... why would you OPEN a book? What would you learn from doing so? Someone else's perspective.... which is precisely what I asked him to provide to me.
I mean, you can't make this sort of stupidity up.
I clearly stated that I can provide my own examples, so examples clearly exist and I believe them.
Despite this, I clearly asked him to provide things that HE believes are examples... so I am specifically asking to become 'informed'... and his response is to decline to inform me, and to tell me to 'go get' informed??
So either he doesn't know... in which case he should take his own advice and become informed....
OR unlike me, he doesn't believe in 'whatever' examples he thinks exist so he doesn't want to state them and have them be corrected/proven false. Don't confuse him with facts, he's got his talking points.
I'll even start for him...
Black people have been kept down economically... they are grossly over-represented in the poor communities, which are also hotbeds for crime based on the despair of poverty and the constant memes of 'instant success' and the American dream. Policing in high 'personal' crime areas (assault, physical confrontations, drugs as opposed to fraud, cybertheft etc) is more aggressive because the crimes are more aggressive... and with more aggression comes more risk/fear... This however is a political and economic issue, not a racial one. It doesn't happen because they are black, it happens because the neighborhood is poor and crime ridden. The racial aspects of it are an effect, not a cause. The solution is to end the democratic strongholds on these people that keeps them tied physically to this despair under the false pretense of 'representation'. Gentrification which is another word for improving the value of a community is a 'crime' rather than a virtue. Intentional or not, this is the cause. The solution is to end the connection between physical locations and representation, at least or especially in dense population areas.... which would allow black people to access opportunities for economic advancement (or escape despair) without losing political power/representation. I can think of numerous ways to do this... proportional representation would be the one most frequently used in other nations, but there are other ways. Since its not my decision to make... I live in neither a poor nor densely populated district... I will not impose my opinion on others.. so for simplicity, let's just put proportional representation. This is especially effective in densely populated areas.... where Democrats are most frequently in control.
Such solutions could be piloted in various areas controlled by Democrats with almost no risk of losing a 'democratic' voice... to see which options might be best... or to prove that they do or do not work.
MOST of these egregious police actions are taking place in Democratic controlled areas, where democrats control the police. What they are doing is not working.... and it has nothing to do with Republicans.
In the 1950's, minorities were kept in 'certain' economically undesirable neighborhoods by racists trying to keep them under control. In the 2000's, minorities are kept in 'certain' economically undesirable neighborhoods with the purpose of GIVING them control... but the end result, either way is that they are kept in economically undesirable neighborhoods... and the source of almost ALL funds for new small businesses and economic growth is home ownership and home price appreciation, which is BY DESIGN discouraged in these neighborhoods... SO the acts have ABSOLUTELY AND DIRECTLY kept poor people, poor. How about we sell 'the inner city projects' to a developer and give the money to the people who have lived in those projects... provided that some meaningful portion of it, say 50% is used to purchase a business or another property??
SO, swag-guzzler....
I've just presented a very clear example of systemic racism... and given you a TINY example of a well-thought out problem with a potential solution... one that could be put into place by ONE party and follows most of the stated tenants of that party. It wouldn't require ONE SINGLE vote from 'the other side' to make happen, nor would it put 'that party' at a disadvantage. It even involves something akin to reparations, which the left generally supports on some level and the right does not.... and I could go on for pages about this... writing a 'book' that you claim to be so fond of. You may not agree with my solution and that's fine... I'm unaware of any meager qualifications you might have to even understand, much less evaluate my position... and quite frankly, I've vetted this with people VASTLY more informed than you appear to be...
I didn't claim this was the only example... I didn't even claim it was the best example... I merely claim that it is AN example... and one where action could be taken without needing some sort of compromise with 'the other side'.... only people who CLAIM to support those in these areas, actually putting their power where their mouths are. It doesn't even involve 'taking' anything from some people to 'give' it to others. At most, it involves giving people control over funds/things that have been set aside for them anyway.
NOW what foolish response do you have, Swag?
It's not my responsibility, nor do I have the time to inform you. There are plenty of history books that can give you a better perspective of the problem. I think that yours is short-sighted and only looks at the world as it is today and not how we got here or how/why blacks are in densely packed areas (especially in northern cities).
It's better to view things as liberal and conservative rather than Democrat or Republican, the parties have changed. I'll assume that you know enough American history that leads up to Reconstruction and the Industrial Age that followed. Large numbers of blacks moved to northern industrial cities looking for economic opportunity and an escape from the Jim Crow south (run by conservatives). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Migr..._American)
While the jobs provided great wealth to the African American (AA) community, they were limited in the areas in which they were allowed to live and denied access to loans in order to move themselves up in life by way of home ownership. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining
There were limitation but it also created a segregated economy in which a small percentage of AA were able to become wealthy, send their kids to college and move away from these northern cities. Decade after decade as people were financially able, they moved away from northern industrial cities and into white-collar work. (You had this part right). That left them poorer and the people more reliant on government assistance. This is why they tend to vote for the more liberal party that believes in larger government instead of the conservative party that believes in less government. It also left the cities in financial pain as the tax base left and those who remained consumed more government services. Tax base is how public education is funded. So as a double whammy the poorer communities had less resources to provide education, which is another way to escape from poverty. It's a viscous cycle that is rooted in racism and perpetuates itself to keep the poor poor, who are disproportionally AA. Law enforcement is basically a weapon of the wealthy class to main this system, keep undesirables (poor, minorities, both) in check and protect that wealth. America is 245 years old, the richest nation on earth with HUGE economic booms. If you are here long enough (AA have been here since the beginning), you work hard, make good decision, invest in property, get an education and stay away from drugs, you can provide your descendants with tremendous wealth. AA were denied that for nearly all of the 245 years.
Like I said, the system usually favors white people.
yet despite all of the time you spent telling me you didn't have time to reply, you finally demonstrated precisely what I expected to hear from you... which is an ABSOLUTELY PERFECT proof that you have no idea what a 'system' is.
A racist system is racist regardless of whom is in charge... regardless of what they are called when it happens. What you have described is RACISTS manipulating a system... and not a racist system. The fact that you note that the RACISTS have switched parties over the centuries (which is only part of the truth) is what clearly demonstrates that it is the racists, not the system
I spoke about Democrats because I can't address what people did 50 or 200 years ago. I CAN however address what is happening today.
In 1950, it was racist democrats who wanted to keep black people confined geographically. In 2021 it is STILL democrats who want to keep black people confined geographically. KEEPING PEOPLE CONFINED GEOGRAPHICALLY has been called a number of things, including redlining, segregation and now 'redistricting'. Keeping people confined based on race, no matter HOW you describe it, is a RACIST system. Unlike banking or policing, There is NO WAY for segregation to lead to equality. It is inherently unequal.
I spoke of Democrats because they currently CLAIM to want to solve these problems. They currently represent the people who live in these districts so they currently have the power to solve these current problems. They don't currently need Republicans help to solve these current problems (though obviously they would currently get it). It doesn't currently happen if Democrats don't do it... because Democrats currently control those districts. I hope you are currently catching the current recurring theme that I am currently focusing on.... currently. I can't go back to 1950 and fix things... but I CAN keep them from continuing to happen in 2022.
If you want to talk about 'reparations' for misdeeds of the past, that is an entirely different conversation... and is not about the system, but about punishing those who abused that system. I do allude to the possibility of giving victims of this segregation at least some of the very loss of HPA that you allude to, but that is money that doesn't come from anyone else's pockets... It simply avoids a 'windfall' for a city that implemented a racist system. The value of that land is essentially zero right now since it generates little in the way of property taxes and is dedicated to people who do not pay significant rent etc etc etc.
Seriously though... as much as I hate to go here... a Rice grad is really the wrong person to try and pull intellectual smack on. A very intelligent person can attend any University so I try not to demean people from other Universities based solely on that... but the WORST Rice graduate would still be in the top half of 90% of other universities. You telling me specifically to 'read a book' to become informed about history or politics is quite literally, laughable.
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