(04-13-2021 06:04 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 03:24 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 03:14 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 11:43 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 11:40 AM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  Probably because the system usually favors white people.

why/how? Please be specific and show your work.

FTR, I can do this... but I wonder if YOU can.

WOW.

Wow? That's your response? LOL! What an idiot. In the meantime, explain how and why.

If he's serious, it's so idiotic it doesn't require a response. He (and you) have fallen down the rabbit hole.

Its idiotic to ask someone to give examples to support their claim? Hint... I TOLD you that I could answer the question myself, so obviously I believe examples exist... but I want to see if you're intelligent enough to have your own ideas/have done enough research to argue your points coherently, or if I am simply engaging with 'troll of the day'. Your unwillingness to defend your claim, followed by the transparent deflection of 'if you need me to explain it, you're down a rabbit hole' tripe is only worth on the elementary school playground.

It's because White lives don't matter. Only Black Lives Matter.

It's sad but that is what the Left and their Mainstream Leftist Media is pushing on everyone - and has been for a while.

(04-13-2021 09:38 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 06:04 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 03:24 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 03:14 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 11:43 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  why/how? Please be specific and show your work.

FTR, I can do this... but I wonder if YOU can.

WOW.

Wow? That's your response? LOL! What an idiot. In the meantime, explain how and why.

If he's serious, it's so idiotic it doesn't require a response. He (and you) have fallen down the rabbit hole.

Its idiotic to ask someone to give examples to support their claim? Hint... I TOLD you that I could answer the question myself, so obviously I believe examples exist... but I want to see if you're intelligent enough to have your own ideas/have done enough research to argue your points coherently, or if I am simply engaging with 'troll of the day'. Your unwillingness to defend your claim, followed by the transparent deflection of 'if you need me to explain it, you're down a rabbit hole' tripe is only worth on the elementary school playground.

I might as well try to convince you that the earth revolves around the sun. You still wouldn't believe it though. Open a couple of books, talk to someone who doesn't look like you, try a little harder. It's out there if you want to find it but I don't have time to hold your hand.

(04-13-2021 09:53 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  It's because White lives don't matter. Only Black Lives Matter.

It's sad but that is what the Left and their Mainstream Leftist Media is pushing on everyone - and has been for a while.

White lives have always mattered, even priority.

Thread derailed. Mission accomplished.

(04-13-2021 10:15 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 09:53 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  It's because White lives don't matter. Only Black Lives Matter.

It's sad but that is what the Left and their Mainstream Leftist Media is pushing on everyone - and has been for a while.

White lives have always mattered, even priority.

It should be easy to illustrate how more black lives have been lost due to police use of deadly force than white lives. I mean there are statistics...

(04-13-2021 09:38 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 06:04 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 03:24 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 03:14 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 11:43 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  why/how? Please be specific and show your work.

FTR, I can do this... but I wonder if YOU can.

WOW.

Wow? That's your response? LOL! What an idiot. In the meantime, explain how and why.

If he's serious, it's so idiotic it doesn't require a response. He (and you) have fallen down the rabbit hole.

Its idiotic to ask someone to give examples to support their claim? Hint... I TOLD you that I could answer the question myself, so obviously I believe examples exist... but I want to see if you're intelligent enough to have your own ideas/have done enough research to argue your points coherently, or if I am simply engaging with 'troll of the day'. Your unwillingness to defend your claim, followed by the transparent deflection of 'if you need me to explain it, you're down a rabbit hole' tripe is only worth on the elementary school playground.

Sounds like your question has been answered.

(04-14-2021 06:48 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 10:15 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 09:53 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  It's because White lives don't matter. Only Black Lives Matter.

It's sad but that is what the Left and their Mainstream Leftist Media is pushing on everyone - and has been for a while.

White lives have always mattered, even priority.

It should be easy to illustrate how more black lives have been lost due to police use of deadly force than white lives. I mean there are statistics...

As a proportion of the population? No.

How many of the 500 were unarmed?

(04-14-2021 09:21 AM)Danforth Wrote:  How many of the 500 were unarmed?

It's actually 568 whites, as of today.

29 were unarmed.

In that same time, 295 blacks have been shot. 21 were unarmed.

Also in that same time, 203 Hispanics have been shot. 10 were unarmed.

Finally, 1,229 men have been shot compared to 54 females. 60 males were unarmed. 5 females were unarmed.

if you guys are just gonna b1tch and moan back and forth, I'll at least bring some numbers to it.

all numbers from from 2015 through 2020.

Total people killed by cops: 6,211 (46.4% of total)
White people killed by cops: 2,883 (24% of total)
Black people killed by cops: 1,496
For the sake of numbers, 76% of Americans are white, 13% black
White people killed by cops who were unarmed: 168 (2.7% of total killings of white people)
Black people killed by cops who were unarmed: 125 (8.3% of total killed of black people)
White people killed by cops who had a gun on them: 1,718 (60% of total white people killed)
Black people killed by cops who had a gun on them: 915 (61% of total black people killed)

So it looks like in situations where a person is armed, the results are about the same with 60 and 61% of white and black people who had been killed by cops had a gun on them.
The interesting number is that black people appear to be 3 times more likely to be killed while unarmed (2.7% compared to 8.3%)

There are at least some database numbers for you all to discuss since you all apparently only want to get into a pissing contest with each other.

I've seen deaths overall.
I've seen deaths per capita.
But I haven't seen good numbers on deaths per officer interaction.

Good, bad, or indifferent, lower income areas have a larger police presence.

(04-14-2021 10:04 AM)ummechengr Wrote:  I've seen deaths overall.
I've seen deaths per capita.
But I haven't seen good numbers on deaths per officer interaction.

Good, bad, or indifferent, lower income areas have a larger police presence.

Isn't much of the problem that police departments either don't keep or release accurate information?

But it isn't proper to uses percentage comparisons of ALL the population to compare % of folks shot.

A better comparison would be to look at percentages of people arrested to better compare to those shot. Generally, people who are making contact with LEO's aren't in the group of those getting shot.

Those getting shot are usually in the processes of being arrested.

So, according to 2019 FBI data:

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/201...s/table-43

4,729,290 whites were arrested while 1,815,144 blacks were arrested.

BUT...that includes Hispanics in the "white" category. A little further over, it shows that 1,126,806 of those arrested were Hispanic or Latino. Since "Hispanics" are historically categorized as "white" for race purposes, let's extract Hispanic numbers from the "black" and "white" categories.

Of that 1,126,808 numbers show that about 2.5 of Hispanics are black, so we will subtract 28,170 from the black total and 1,098,638 from the white total.

So that leaves about 3,630,652 as the total of whites arrested in 2019. And 1,786,974 for blacks.

In 2019, 454 whites were shot (26 unarmed) while 252 blacks were shot. 12 of whom were unarmed.

So, per 100,000 people, whites were shot 12.5 times. Blacks were shot 14.1 times.

Of those shot, per 100, unarmed white people (5.7) were shot at a slightly higher rate (4.67) than blacks.

(04-14-2021 10:04 AM)ummechengr Wrote:  I've seen deaths overall.
I've seen deaths per capita.
But I haven't seen good numbers on deaths per officer interaction.

Good, bad, or indifferent, lower income areas have a larger police presence.

And a higher number of crimes. The fact is [and too your point], blacks have a much higher (per capita) frequency of enforcement interaction with police than whites do. That is because they commit more crime per capita.

Don't bich at me for this statement. This is according to FBI stats.

(04-13-2021 10:15 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 09:53 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  It's because White lives don't matter. Only Black Lives Matter.

It's sad but that is what the Left and their Mainstream Leftist Media is pushing on everyone - and has been for a while.

White lives have always mattered, even priority.

Yeah, we aren't talking about several decades or more ago. We're talking about the present.

Getting shot by police is not so much about the color of someone's skin. It is more about threatening the police or physically resisting them when being questioned or arrested that gets them shot.

(04-14-2021 07:46 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 09:38 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 06:04 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 03:24 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 03:14 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  WOW.

Wow? That's your response? LOL! What an idiot. In the meantime, explain how and why.

If he's serious, it's so idiotic it doesn't require a response. He (and you) have fallen down the rabbit hole.

Its idiotic to ask someone to give examples to support their claim? Hint... I TOLD you that I could answer the question myself, so obviously I believe examples exist... but I want to see if you're intelligent enough to have your own ideas/have done enough research to argue your points coherently, or if I am simply engaging with 'troll of the day'. Your unwillingness to defend your claim, followed by the transparent deflection of 'if you need me to explain it, you're down a rabbit hole' tripe is only worth on the elementary school playground.

Sounds like your question has been answered.

Exactly.

This moron is telling ME to open a few books... lol.

The amusing thing is... why would you OPEN a book? What would you learn from doing so? Someone else's perspective.... which is precisely what I asked him to provide to me.

I mean, you can't make this sort of stupidity up.

I clearly stated that I can provide my own examples, so examples clearly exist and I believe them.

Despite this, I clearly asked him to provide things that HE believes are examples... so I am specifically asking to become 'informed'... and his response is to decline to inform me, and to tell me to 'go get' informed??

So either he doesn't know... in which case he should take his own advice and become informed....
OR unlike me, he doesn't believe in 'whatever' examples he thinks exist so he doesn't want to state them and have them be corrected/proven false. Don't confuse him with facts, he's got his talking points.

I'll even start for him...
Black people have been kept down economically... they are grossly over-represented in the poor communities, which are also hotbeds for crime based on the despair of poverty and the constant memes of 'instant success' and the American dream. Policing in high 'personal' crime areas (assault, physical confrontations, drugs as opposed to fraud, cybertheft etc) is more aggressive because the crimes are more aggressive... and with more aggression comes more risk/fear... This however is a political and economic issue, not a racial one. It doesn't happen because they are black, it happens because the neighborhood is poor and crime ridden. The racial aspects of it are an effect, not a cause. The solution is to end the democratic strongholds on these people that keeps them tied physically to this despair under the false pretense of 'representation'. Gentrification which is another word for improving the value of a community is a 'crime' rather than a virtue. Intentional or not, this is the cause. The solution is to end the connection between physical locations and representation, at least or especially in dense population areas.... which would allow black people to access opportunities for economic advancement (or escape despair) without losing political power/representation. I can think of numerous ways to do this... proportional representation would be the one most frequently used in other nations, but there are other ways. Since its not my decision to make... I live in neither a poor nor densely populated district... I will not impose my opinion on others.. so for simplicity, let's just put proportional representation. This is especially effective in densely populated areas.... where Democrats are most frequently in control.

Such solutions could be piloted in various areas controlled by Democrats with almost no risk of losing a 'democratic' voice... to see which options might be best... or to prove that they do or do not work.

MOST of these egregious police actions are taking place in Democratic controlled areas, where democrats control the police. What they are doing is not working.... and it has nothing to do with Republicans.

In the 1950's, minorities were kept in 'certain' economically undesirable neighborhoods by racists trying to keep them under control. In the 2000's, minorities are kept in 'certain' economically undesirable neighborhoods with the purpose of GIVING them control... but the end result, either way is that they are kept in economically undesirable neighborhoods... and the source of almost ALL funds for new small businesses and economic growth is home ownership and home price appreciation, which is BY DESIGN discouraged in these neighborhoods... SO the acts have ABSOLUTELY AND DIRECTLY kept poor people, poor. How about we sell 'the inner city projects' to a developer and give the money to the people who have lived in those projects... provided that some meaningful portion of it, say 50% is used to purchase a business or another property??

SO, swag-guzzler....

I've just presented a very clear example of systemic racism... and given you a TINY example of a well-thought out problem with a potential solution... one that could be put into place by ONE party and follows most of the stated tenants of that party. It wouldn't require ONE SINGLE vote from 'the other side' to make happen, nor would it put 'that party' at a disadvantage. It even involves something akin to reparations, which the left generally supports on some level and the right does not.... and I could go on for pages about this... writing a 'book' that you claim to be so fond of. You may not agree with my solution and that's fine... I'm unaware of any meager qualifications you might have to even understand, much less evaluate my position... and quite frankly, I've vetted this with people VASTLY more informed than you appear to be...

I didn't claim this was the only example... I didn't even claim it was the best example... I merely claim that it is AN example... and one where action could be taken without needing some sort of compromise with 'the other side'.... only people who CLAIM to support those in these areas, actually putting their power where their mouths are. It doesn't even involve 'taking' anything from some people to 'give' it to others. At most, it involves giving people control over funds/things that have been set aside for them anyway.


NOW what foolish response do you have, Swag?

(04-14-2021 09:48 AM)NCeagle Wrote:  if you guys are just gonna b1tch and moan back and forth, I'll at least bring some numbers to it.

all numbers from from 2015 through 2020.

Total people killed by cops: 6,211 (46.4% of total)
White people killed by cops: 2,883 (24% of total)
Black people killed by cops: 1,496
For the sake of numbers, 76% of Americans are white, 13% black
White people killed by cops who were unarmed: 168 (2.7% of total killings of white people)
Black people killed by cops who were unarmed: 125 (8.3% of total killed of black people)
White people killed by cops who had a gun on them: 1,718 (60% of total white people killed)
Black people killed by cops who had a gun on them: 915 (61% of total black people killed)

So it looks like in situations where a person is armed, the results are about the same with 60 and 61% of white and black people who had been killed by cops had a gun on them.
The interesting number is that black people appear to be 3 times more likely to be killed while unarmed (2.7% compared to 8.3%)

There are at least some database numbers for you all to discuss since you all apparently only want to get into a pissing contest with each other.

Ty for the stats! Do you have a link for this? I'll google if not. Just happy to see some more #s.

(04-14-2021 10:28 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(04-14-2021 07:46 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 09:38 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 06:04 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 03:24 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  Wow? That's your response? LOL! What an idiot. In the meantime, explain how and why.

If he's serious, it's so idiotic it doesn't require a response. He (and you) have fallen down the rabbit hole.

Its idiotic to ask someone to give examples to support their claim? Hint... I TOLD you that I could answer the question myself, so obviously I believe examples exist... but I want to see if you're intelligent enough to have your own ideas/have done enough research to argue your points coherently, or if I am simply engaging with 'troll of the day'. Your unwillingness to defend your claim, followed by the transparent deflection of 'if you need me to explain it, you're down a rabbit hole' tripe is only worth on the elementary school playground.

Sounds like your question has been answered.

Exactly.

This moron is telling ME to open a few books... lol.

The amusing thing is... why would you OPEN a book? What would you learn from doing so? Someone else's perspective.... which is precisely what I asked him to provide to me.

I mean, you can't make this sort of stupidity up.

I clearly stated that I can provide my own examples, so examples clearly exist and I believe them.

Despite this, I clearly asked him to provide things that HE believes are examples... so I am specifically asking to become 'informed'... and his response is to decline to inform me, and to tell me to 'go get' informed??

So either he doesn't know... in which case he should take his own advice and become informed....
OR unlike me, he doesn't believe in 'whatever' examples he thinks exist so he doesn't want to state them and have them be corrected/proven false. Don't confuse him with facts, he's got his talking points.

I'll even start for him...
Black people have been kept down economically... they are grossly over-represented in the poor communities, which are also hotbeds for crime based on the despair of poverty and the constant memes of 'instant success' and the American dream. Policing in high 'personal' crime areas (assault, physical confrontations, drugs as opposed to fraud, cybertheft etc) is more aggressive because the crimes are more aggressive... and with more aggression comes more risk/fear... This however is a political and economic issue, not a racial one. It doesn't happen because they are black, it happens because the neighborhood is poor and crime ridden. The racial aspects of it are an effect, not a cause. The solution is to end the democratic strongholds on these people that keeps them tied physically to this despair under the false pretense of 'representation'. Gentrification which is another word for improving the value of a community is a 'crime' rather than a virtue. Intentional or not, this is the cause. The solution is to end the connection between physical locations and representation, at least or especially in dense population areas.... which would allow black people to access opportunities for economic advancement (or escape despair) without losing political power/representation. I can think of numerous ways to do this... proportional representation would be the one most frequently used in other nations, but there are other ways. Since its not my decision to make... I live in neither a poor nor densely populated district... I will not impose my opinion on others.. so for simplicity, let's just put proportional representation. This is especially effective in densely populated areas.... where Democrats are most frequently in control.

Such solutions could be piloted in various areas controlled by Democrats with almost no risk of losing a 'democratic' voice... to see which options might be best... or to prove that they do or do not work.

MOST of these egregious police actions are taking place in Democratic controlled areas, where democrats control the police. What they are doing is not working.... and it has nothing to do with Republicans.

In the 1950's, minorities were kept in 'certain' economically undesirable neighborhoods by racists trying to keep them under control. In the 2000's, minorities are kept in 'certain' economically undesirable neighborhoods with the purpose of GIVING them control... but the end result, either way is that they are kept in economically undesirable neighborhoods... and the source of almost ALL funds for new small businesses and economic growth is home ownership and home price appreciation, which is BY DESIGN discouraged in these neighborhoods... SO the acts have ABSOLUTELY AND DIRECTLY kept poor people, poor. How about we sell 'the inner city projects' to a developer and give the money to the people who have lived in those projects... provided that some meaningful portion of it, say 50% is used to purchase a business or another property??

SO, swag-guzzler....

I've just presented a very clear example of systemic racism... and given you a TINY example of a well-thought out problem with a potential solution... one that could be put into place by ONE party and follows most of the stated tenants of that party. It wouldn't require ONE SINGLE vote from 'the other side' to make happen, nor would it put 'that party' at a disadvantage. It even involves something akin to reparations, which the left generally supports on some level and the right does not.... and I could go on for pages about this... writing a 'book' that you claim to be so fond of. You may not agree with my solution and that's fine... I'm unaware of any meager qualifications you might have to even understand, much less evaluate my position... and quite frankly, I've vetted this with people VASTLY more informed than you appear to be...

I didn't claim this was the only example... I didn't even claim it was the best example... I merely claim that it is AN example... and one where action could be taken without needing some sort of compromise with 'the other side'.... only people who CLAIM to support those in these areas, actually putting their power where their mouths are. It doesn't even involve 'taking' anything from some people to 'give' it to others. At most, it involves giving people control over funds/things that have been set aside for them anyway.


NOW what foolish response do you have, Swag?

Just need to accept some folks are trolls. When no original thoughts are presented and only talking points it's best to stop feeding the troll.

(04-14-2021 08:26 AM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(04-14-2021 06:48 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 10:15 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(04-13-2021 09:53 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  It's because White lives don't matter. Only Black Lives Matter.

It's sad but that is what the Left and their Mainstream Leftist Media is pushing on everyone - and has been for a while.

White lives have always mattered, even priority.

It should be easy to illustrate how more black lives have been lost due to police use of deadly force than white lives. I mean there are statistics...

As a proportion of the population? No.

Oh? So never mind that blacks commit disproportionately more crimes as a percentage of the population than do whites huh? Facts and figures only matter when they serve the lunatic narrative you're advancing?

I'm betting you're also fully committed to martyring a black gang banger who was shot while attempting to run from the police too huh? Shouldn't you be out rioting as a means to advance your cause?