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bearcatmark Offline
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Post: #21
RE: John Cunningham evaluation?
(04-10-2021 07:17 AM)skyblade Wrote:  I think Cunningham is going to come out of this looking just fine. Pinto obviously thinks so and he has a lot more information than we do. The BoT was certainly involved in this as well. A lot of people who know what their doing determined that Brannen can and should be fired with cause.

UC admin has been quiet, they've said as little as possible. They were investigating him well before the season ended, there has been plenty of time for them. They never tried to dirty the waters. To me this indicates they found something that justifies a for cause firing.

Brannen has been trying his best to muddy the waters. Frivolous lawsuits, Tom Mars on twitter, Brannen's wife on twitter, the Luke text release. I feel like Brannen knows UC has something on him and is trying to make this as ugly as possible in order for UC to give him a significant chunk of go away money. At some point Brannen decided he know longer cares about UC and is going to do his best to burn it down on his way out.
We disagree on here a lot but I keep coming back to the bolded in my evaluation as well. Maybe we'll be proven wrong but uc has handled this like they are confident in what they have. I don't think they make the move if they are not. Mars and Brannen have acted increasingly desperate throwing crap against the wall in public. I don't think they're fond of their case so they're trying to use public anger to fuel a beneficial settlement.
 
04-10-2021 07:27 AM
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levydl Offline
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RE: John Cunningham evaluation?
(04-10-2021 07:27 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(04-10-2021 07:17 AM)skyblade Wrote:  I think Cunningham is going to come out of this looking just fine. Pinto obviously thinks so and he has a lot more information than we do. The BoT was certainly involved in this as well. A lot of people who know what their doing determined that Brannen can and should be fired with cause.

UC admin has been quiet, they've said as little as possible. They were investigating him well before the season ended, there has been plenty of time for them. They never tried to dirty the waters. To me this indicates they found something that justifies a for cause firing.

Brannen has been trying his best to muddy the waters. Frivolous lawsuits, Tom Mars on twitter, Brannen's wife on twitter, the Luke text release. I feel like Brannen knows UC has something on him and is trying to make this as ugly as possible in order for UC to give him a significant chunk of go away money. At some point Brannen decided he know longer cares about UC and is going to do his best to burn it down on his way out.
We disagree on here a lot but I keep coming back to the bolded in my evaluation as well. Maybe we'll be proven wrong but uc has handled this like they are confident in what they have. I don't think they make the move if they are not. Mars and Brannen have acted increasingly desperate throwing crap against the wall in public. I don't think they're fond of their case so they're trying to use public anger to fuel a beneficial settlement.

Brannen's big reveal that UC was in breach because . . . he had to report to some other guy seems pretty telling and hilarious.
 
04-10-2021 07:37 AM
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Post: #23
RE: John Cunningham evaluation?
(04-10-2021 07:37 AM)levydl Wrote:  
(04-10-2021 07:27 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(04-10-2021 07:17 AM)skyblade Wrote:  I think Cunningham is going to come out of this looking just fine. Pinto obviously thinks so and he has a lot more information than we do. The BoT was certainly involved in this as well. A lot of people who know what their doing determined that Brannen can and should be fired with cause.

UC admin has been quiet, they've said as little as possible. They were investigating him well before the season ended, there has been plenty of time for them. They never tried to dirty the waters. To me this indicates they found something that justifies a for cause firing.

Brannen has been trying his best to muddy the waters. Frivolous lawsuits, Tom Mars on twitter, Brannen's wife on twitter, the Luke text release. I feel like Brannen knows UC has something on him and is trying to make this as ugly as possible in order for UC to give him a significant chunk of go away money. At some point Brannen decided he know longer cares about UC and is going to do his best to burn it down on his way out.
We disagree on here a lot but I keep coming back to the bolded in my evaluation as well. Maybe we'll be proven wrong but uc has handled this like they are confident in what they have. I don't think they make the move if they are not. Mars and Brannen have acted increasingly desperate throwing crap against the wall in public. I don't think they're fond of their case so they're trying to use public anger to fuel a beneficial settlement.

Brannen's big reveal that UC was in breach because . . . he had to report to some other guy seems pretty telling and hilarious.

And it goes nowhere in proving his case. They can still fire him for breaching his contract with one of the for cause provisions. If UC was also in breach over what is an extremely small matter (reporting to the cfo) Brannen could’ve taken another job and argued that he didn’t owe the buyout not that he is entitled to the buyout because of that issue. If that’s the best he has, I’m thinking Cunningham has him by the balls.
 
04-10-2021 07:46 AM
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Post: #24
RE: John Cunningham evaluation?
(04-09-2021 09:26 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Honestly it's way too early to know on Cunningham.

Yep, it's as i said a couple weeks ago, this wasn't a JC vs JB situation i know for certain. More involved than the point guys.
 
04-10-2021 08:01 AM
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Post: #25
RE: John Cunningham evaluation?
(04-10-2021 07:37 AM)levydl Wrote:  
(04-10-2021 07:27 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(04-10-2021 07:17 AM)skyblade Wrote:  I think Cunningham is going to come out of this looking just fine. Pinto obviously thinks so and he has a lot more information than we do. The BoT was certainly involved in this as well. A lot of people who know what their doing determined that Brannen can and should be fired with cause.

UC admin has been quiet, they've said as little as possible. They were investigating him well before the season ended, there has been plenty of time for them. They never tried to dirty the waters. To me this indicates they found something that justifies a for cause firing.

Brannen has been trying his best to muddy the waters. Frivolous lawsuits, Tom Mars on twitter, Brannen's wife on twitter, the Luke text release. I feel like Brannen knows UC has something on him and is trying to make this as ugly as possible in order for UC to give him a significant chunk of go away money. At some point Brannen decided he know longer cares about UC and is going to do his best to burn it down on his way out.
We disagree on here a lot but I keep coming back to the bolded in my evaluation as well. Maybe we'll be proven wrong but uc has handled this like they are confident in what they have. I don't think they make the move if they are not. Mars and Brannen have acted increasingly desperate throwing crap against the wall in public. I don't think they're fond of their case so they're trying to use public anger to fuel a beneficial settlement.

Brannen's big reveal that UC was in breach because . . . he had to report to some other guy seems pretty telling and hilarious.

Legalities aside, isn't such an arrangement indicative of a deeply dysfunctional athletic department? How can you have an AD who doesn't talk to the HC of one of the major revenue sports?
 
04-10-2021 08:26 AM
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bearcatmark Offline
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Post: #26
RE: John Cunningham evaluation?
(04-10-2021 08:26 AM)Former Lurker Wrote:  Legalities aside, isn't such an arrangement indicative of a deeply dysfunctional athletic department? How can you have an AD who doesn't talk to the HC of one of the major revenue sports?

I would say it's indicative of one side's spin while the other side is remaining quiet and going about its business.
 
04-10-2021 08:28 AM
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Post: #27
RE: John Cunningham evaluation?
(04-10-2021 08:26 AM)Former Lurker Wrote:  
(04-10-2021 07:37 AM)levydl Wrote:  
(04-10-2021 07:27 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(04-10-2021 07:17 AM)skyblade Wrote:  I think Cunningham is going to come out of this looking just fine. Pinto obviously thinks so and he has a lot more information than we do. The BoT was certainly involved in this as well. A lot of people who know what their doing determined that Brannen can and should be fired with cause.

UC admin has been quiet, they've said as little as possible. They were investigating him well before the season ended, there has been plenty of time for them. They never tried to dirty the waters. To me this indicates they found something that justifies a for cause firing.

Brannen has been trying his best to muddy the waters. Frivolous lawsuits, Tom Mars on twitter, Brannen's wife on twitter, the Luke text release. I feel like Brannen knows UC has something on him and is trying to make this as ugly as possible in order for UC to give him a significant chunk of go away money. At some point Brannen decided he know longer cares about UC and is going to do his best to burn it down on his way out.
We disagree on here a lot but I keep coming back to the bolded in my evaluation as well. Maybe we'll be proven wrong but uc has handled this like they are confident in what they have. I don't think they make the move if they are not. Mars and Brannen have acted increasingly desperate throwing crap against the wall in public. I don't think they're fond of their case so they're trying to use public anger to fuel a beneficial settlement.

Brannen's big reveal that UC was in breach because . . . he had to report to some other guy seems pretty telling and hilarious.

Legalities aside, isn't such an arrangement indicative of a deeply dysfunctional athletic department? How can you have an AD who doesn't talk to the HC of one of the major revenue sports?

Isn't it quite common for organizations to operate via proxy just like this?
 
04-10-2021 08:39 AM
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Post: #28
RE: John Cunningham evaluation?
(04-09-2021 10:32 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(04-09-2021 10:00 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  
(04-09-2021 09:26 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Honestly it's way too early to know on Cunningham.

He's provided next to zero transparency so far, but eventually I think the fans will demand answers especially when we see the final price tag on his handling of this. And Cunningham deserves to tell his version. I don't know how good things will look for Brannen when it all comes out, but I've got a high degree of confidence it won't look good for Cunningham.

From Rauch's twitter earlier today before the news:

[Image: EyjcADpXMAEn8xH?format=png&name=small]

Saw that earlier. They're really grasping if they are using that as an example of not honoring his contract.

Either there is or isn't cause for the firing. Cause doesn't have to be ncaa violations. I think both sides have incentive to eventually settle but I guess we'll see.

Agreed. Weak sauce accusation by Mars.
Bohn was on his way out the door so Brannen had to report to an interim which evidently was Bose. If that reporting relationship stayed in place again big whoop. Reporting structures change regularly in big organizations. It's not like they had Brannen reporting to a manager of concessions. He was reporting to the CFO likely the #2 guy.
If this is the contract violation it's not much of an argument.
 
04-10-2021 08:48 AM
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Post: #29
RE: John Cunningham evaluation?
(04-10-2021 08:26 AM)Former Lurker Wrote:  
(04-10-2021 07:37 AM)levydl Wrote:  
(04-10-2021 07:27 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(04-10-2021 07:17 AM)skyblade Wrote:  I think Cunningham is going to come out of this looking just fine. Pinto obviously thinks so and he has a lot more information than we do. The BoT was certainly involved in this as well. A lot of people who know what their doing determined that Brannen can and should be fired with cause.

UC admin has been quiet, they've said as little as possible. They were investigating him well before the season ended, there has been plenty of time for them. They never tried to dirty the waters. To me this indicates they found something that justifies a for cause firing.

Brannen has been trying his best to muddy the waters. Frivolous lawsuits, Tom Mars on twitter, Brannen's wife on twitter, the Luke text release. I feel like Brannen knows UC has something on him and is trying to make this as ugly as possible in order for UC to give him a significant chunk of go away money. At some point Brannen decided he know longer cares about UC and is going to do his best to burn it down on his way out.
We disagree on here a lot but I keep coming back to the bolded in my evaluation as well. Maybe we'll be proven wrong but uc has handled this like they are confident in what they have. I don't think they make the move if they are not. Mars and Brannen have acted increasingly desperate throwing crap against the wall in public. I don't think they're fond of their case so they're trying to use public anger to fuel a beneficial settlement.

Brannen's big reveal that UC was in breach because . . . he had to report to some other guy seems pretty telling and hilarious.

Legalities aside, isn't such an arrangement indicative of a deeply dysfunctional athletic department? How can you have an AD who doesn't talk to the HC of one of the major revenue sports?

I can't say I'm an expert on how athletic depts are structured. I just don't believe that what Brannen's camp is saying is the entire story. For example, the CFO guy is apparently also the Senior Associate AD, so maybe it's not weird at all for him to be the point man with day-to-day stuff involving the hoops coach? And, again, if this was the arrangement from the time Brannen was hired, well he was hired under Bohn, not Cunningham, so that wouldn't be particularly indicative of Cunningham's dysfunction. And why didn't Brannen raise the issue when he got a new AD?

The issue is so trivial and the specifics they are putting out so suspect that it shows me Brannen's camp is flailing. They are also making a bunch of process arguments--"The AD didn't interview me"; "The investigation was ongoing"--which also suggests they don't have a good response to the substantive reasons for his firing.
 
04-10-2021 08:48 AM
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Post: #30
RE: John Cunningham evaluation?
(04-10-2021 08:28 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(04-10-2021 08:26 AM)Former Lurker Wrote:  Legalities aside, isn't such an arrangement indicative of a deeply dysfunctional athletic department? How can you have an AD who doesn't talk to the HC of one of the major revenue sports?

I would say it's indicative of one side's spin while the other side is remaining quiet and going about its business.

Might be indicative of a well run athletic department. The fact that nothing leaked from the AD is surprising. Only official statements came out to the public. They were playing this as a legal battle while the coach was playing a PR battle. PR wins in the public eye but legal wins in the long run. I am not saying this is definitely a well run department (I honestly can't make that determination yet...not enough time) however silence can be read both ways. This is a very unfortunate event but it appears that the department had reason, not just that Cunningham and Brannen didn't get along. I imagine official reports will come out via FOIA and will be reported on. I was on the side of giving Brannen a chance a month ago. That opportunity is gone. I am now on the Bearcats side, assuming the AD was hired with the knowledge and ability to successfully handle HR situations, both removing and adding staff. I'm excited to see who is hired to be coach over the next couple of weeks.
 
(This post was last modified: 04-10-2021 09:34 AM by bearcatdp.)
04-10-2021 09:33 AM
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cincy7718 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: John Cunningham evaluation?
Personally most interested in how this all affects our ability moving forward to retain Fick, and attract best possible new b-ball coach and athletes as well as with fundraising. I absolutely could be wrong but it seems winning the PR battle would be a big part of that, regardless of who was legally in the right.

Also I haven’t seen mentioned, maybe for good reason or maybe I just missed it, but didn’t Cunningham just tell Fick a few months ago he was a few mill short of being being able to fully upgrade facilities? And blamed covid for his inability to raise the money. Then he finds it almost immediately to spend on firing/hiring for a different sport? If Fick truly is unhappy or unimpressed with how this was handled, coupled with watching money that could have helped him, might be a difficult combination to resolve. Just my speculation.
 
04-10-2021 09:57 AM
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Post: #32
RE: John Cunningham evaluation?
(04-10-2021 09:57 AM)cincy7718 Wrote:  Personally most interested in how this all affects our ability moving forward to retain Fick, and attract best possible new b-ball coach and athletes as well as with fundraising. I absolutely could be wrong but it seems winning the PR battle would be a big part of that, regardless of who was legally in the right.

Also I haven’t seen mentioned, maybe for good reason or maybe I just missed it, but didn’t Cunningham just tell Fick a few months ago he was a few mill short of being being able to fully upgrade facilities? And blamed covid for his inability to raise the money. Then he finds it almost immediately to spend on firing/hiring for a different sport? If Fick truly is unhappy or unimpressed with how this was handled, coupled with watching money that could have helped him, might be a difficult combination to resolve. Just my speculation.

UC isn’t paying Brannen anything unless a Judge forces them to at this point.
 
04-10-2021 10:37 AM
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RE: John Cunningham evaluation?
(04-10-2021 10:37 AM)BcatMatt13 Wrote:  
(04-10-2021 09:57 AM)cincy7718 Wrote:  Personally most interested in how this all affects our ability moving forward to retain Fick, and attract best possible new b-ball coach and athletes as well as with fundraising. I absolutely could be wrong but it seems winning the PR battle would be a big part of that, regardless of who was legally in the right.

Also I haven’t seen mentioned, maybe for good reason or maybe I just missed it, but didn’t Cunningham just tell Fick a few months ago he was a few mill short of being being able to fully upgrade facilities? And blamed covid for his inability to raise the money. Then he finds it almost immediately to spend on firing/hiring for a different sport? If Fick truly is unhappy or unimpressed with how this was handled, coupled with watching money that could have helped him, might be a difficult combination to resolve. Just my speculation.

UC isn’t paying Brannen anything unless a Judge forces them to at this point.

I think they'd settle out court in the near future. I think their releases clearly leave that option open and are saying we'll avoid tarnishing Brannen's name if we can get this done amicably. Of course does that go out the door is Mars continues to make this a public spectacle?
 
04-10-2021 10:39 AM
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mptnstr@44 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: John Cunningham evaluation?
Whether and how much UC pays has everything to do with what violations they have and how quietly they want Brannen to go away.
Brannen has more to lose than UC.
 
04-10-2021 11:17 AM
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Post: #35
RE: John Cunningham evaluation?
(04-10-2021 10:39 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(04-10-2021 10:37 AM)BcatMatt13 Wrote:  
(04-10-2021 09:57 AM)cincy7718 Wrote:  Personally most interested in how this all affects our ability moving forward to retain Fick, and attract best possible new b-ball coach and athletes as well as with fundraising. I absolutely could be wrong but it seems winning the PR battle would be a big part of that, regardless of who was legally in the right.

Also I haven’t seen mentioned, maybe for good reason or maybe I just missed it, but didn’t Cunningham just tell Fick a few months ago he was a few mill short of being being able to fully upgrade facilities? And blamed covid for his inability to raise the money. Then he finds it almost immediately to spend on firing/hiring for a different sport? If Fick truly is unhappy or unimpressed with how this was handled, coupled with watching money that could have helped him, might be a difficult combination to resolve. Just my speculation.

UC isn’t paying Brannen anything unless a Judge forces them to at this point.

I think they'd settle out court in the near future. I think their releases clearly leave that option open and are saying we'll avoid tarnishing Brannen's name if we can get this done amicably. Of course does that go out the door is Mars continues to make this a public spectacle?

I figured that too but he said they turned down a seven figure offer on a settlement from UC so I figured they are going to fight to the end.
 
04-10-2021 11:49 AM
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UCGrad1992 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: John Cunningham evaluation?
At some point though, JB will have to consider the balance between continued litigation and reaching a settlement. His laywer isn't losing out on any career opportunites. I will be surprised if this thing doesn't get settled sooner rather than later. There is an inherent benefit to both sides to move on from this.
 
04-10-2021 12:14 PM
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RE: John Cunningham evaluation?
(04-10-2021 09:33 AM)bearcatdp Wrote:  
(04-10-2021 08:28 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(04-10-2021 08:26 AM)Former Lurker Wrote:  Legalities aside, isn't such an arrangement indicative of a deeply dysfunctional athletic department? How can you have an AD who doesn't talk to the HC of one of the major revenue sports?

I would say it's indicative of one side's spin while the other side is remaining quiet and going about its business.

Might be indicative of a well run athletic department. The fact that nothing leaked from the AD is surprising. Only official statements came out to the public. They were playing this as a legal battle while the coach was playing a PR battle. PR wins in the public eye but legal wins in the long run. I am not saying this is definitely a well run department (I honestly can't make that determination yet...not enough time) however silence can be read both ways. This is a very unfortunate event but it appears that the department had reason, not just that Cunningham and Brannen didn't get along. I imagine official reports will come out via FOIA and will be reported on. I was on the side of giving Brannen a chance a month ago. That opportunity is gone. I am now on the Bearcats side, assuming the AD was hired with the knowledge and ability to successfully handle HR situations, both removing and adding staff. I'm excited to see who is hired to be coach over the next couple of weeks.

This is a really good point.

If this was an SEC school, there would be a hundred reporters working inside sources and leaking info from the AD and the BOD every day.

There's nowhere near that level of media scrutiny of UC, but this is still a huge story. It's remarkable that nothing has leaked from UC yet.
 
(This post was last modified: 04-10-2021 01:20 PM by Captain Bearcat.)
04-10-2021 01:20 PM
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Post: #38
RE: John Cunningham evaluation?
(04-10-2021 12:14 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  At some point though, JB will have to consider the balance between continued litigation and reaching a settlement. His laywer isn't losing out on any career opportunites. I will be surprised if this thing doesn't get settled sooner rather than later. There is an inherent benefit to both sides to move on from this.

The issue is that he's already damaged goods by things that have been floated out there, so what exactly does Brannen have to lose at this point if he actually hasn't done anything to warrant a for-cause dismissal?

I wouldn't blame him at all if he's bitter and looking for a fight. He got fired because he was a bad fit, had poor people skills, etc. and didn't perform well enough to offset those issues.
 
04-10-2021 02:03 PM
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RE: John Cunningham evaluation?
(04-10-2021 08:28 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(04-10-2021 08:26 AM)Former Lurker Wrote:  Legalities aside, isn't such an arrangement indicative of a deeply dysfunctional athletic department? How can you have an AD who doesn't talk to the HC of one of the major revenue sports?

I would say it's indicative of one side's spin while the other side is remaining quiet and going about its business.

Mars’ gambit is stirring up enough crap in the alumni and fanbase that they send off a tidal wave of angry emails to the administration forcing UC to cave. He’s grossly misjudged the public sentiment on this. Brannen never performed well enough on the court and never ingrained himself off the court as one of us...the masses won’t have the outcry Mars wants. Sayanara. Don’t let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.

I hope Cunningham tells them to pound sand and get straight to the discovery portion of the dance card if they continue to refuse the settlement offer. Brannen may never coach college ball again if that happens.
 
04-10-2021 02:21 PM
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UCGrad1992 Offline
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RE: John Cunningham evaluation?
(04-10-2021 02:03 PM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote:  
(04-10-2021 12:14 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  At some point though, JB will have to consider the balance between continued litigation and reaching a settlement. His laywer isn't losing out on any career opportunites. I will be surprised if this thing doesn't get settled sooner rather than later. There is an inherent benefit to both sides to move on from this.

The issue is that he's already damaged goods by things that have been floated out there, so what exactly does Brannen have to lose at this point if he actually hasn't done anything to warrant a for-cause dismissal?

I wouldn't blame him at all if he's bitter and looking for a fight. He got fired because he was a bad fit, had poor people skills, etc. and didn't perform well enough to offset those issues.

If that's what you believe or based on what JB's attorney says...I would counter to say what if the internal investigation turned up some things that make a strong case for cause dismissal? Remember, like it or not, COVID has brought out sensitivities and protocols to erring on the side of caution when it comes to the health, safety and welfare of students. That was clearly stated in the AD's public announcement for the internal investigation. You may be right, JB decides to fight this out until the last man standing. The flip of that is there is a cost to him in time, reputation and legal fees. You settle out of court and this thing goes away sooner rather than later. The sooner he can try to salvage his coaching career even if it means as an assistant moving forward.
 
(This post was last modified: 04-10-2021 03:01 PM by UCGrad1992.)
04-10-2021 02:58 PM
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