(05-11-2022 02:51 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(05-11-2022 01:32 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  D-III athletes pay to be there.

I get what you mean, but, at the good/power D3 programs, the highly recruited student athletes do get incentives to go there and play, but they’re through other merit-based aid, grants, or scholarships. The name on the door helps, too…if I play a sport well enough (perhaps even D1-level, though not top tier D1) and a D3 school wants me, they’re going to have to make it worth my while somehow, especially if the school doesn’t have the name recognition.

But, you’re right…they don’t have to a thing and treat you like any other prospective student. For Hartford, I would be shocked if they pulled this sort of shift, though. I am even wondering that when Hartford makes this move, that if they just stop that kind of recruiting in some of their more noteworthy programs, including basketball…I suspect they lose a lot more alumni support. Even if it’s not great now, it can get worse.

D3 isn't really looking for the high end recruit really. The average D3 player is actually there for a education. The better players might hope to transfer to a D2 or D1 school and get a scholarship. Though most scholarship hopefuls go the junior college route then to D2 or D1. I consider D3 as players not recruited out of high school or the Junco ranks. They're just happy having a payday game against some D1 looking for a home game.

(05-11-2022 10:11 PM)46566 Wrote:  

(05-11-2022 02:51 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(05-11-2022 01:32 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  D-III athletes pay to be there.

I get what you mean, but, at the good/power D3 programs, the highly recruited student athletes do get incentives to go there and play, but they’re through other merit-based aid, grants, or scholarships. The name on the door helps, too…if I play a sport well enough (perhaps even D1-level, though not top tier D1) and a D3 school wants me, they’re going to have to make it worth my while somehow, especially if the school doesn’t have the name recognition.

But, you’re right…they don’t have to a thing and treat you like any other prospective student. For Hartford, I would be shocked if they pulled this sort of shift, though. I am even wondering that when Hartford makes this move, that if they just stop that kind of recruiting in some of their more noteworthy programs, including basketball…I suspect they lose a lot more alumni support. Even if it’s not great now, it can get worse.

D3 isn't really looking for the high end recruit really. The average D3 player is actually there for a education. The better players might hope to transfer to a D2 or D1 school and get a scholarship. Though most scholarship hopefuls go the junior college route then to D2 or D1. I consider D3 as players not recruited out of high school or the Junco ranks. They're just happy having a payday game against some D1 looking for a home game.

I don’t necessarily disagree overall, but I think it varies based on the school and program with respect to a willingness to compete for a kid in certain sports. YMMV with respect to any recruit’s institutional fit.

Schools aren’t dumb to the challenges, either. An athletic scholarship puts (and historically at least meant to keep) the kid there for the sport/team. The merit aid/grant stuff gets them to the school. I knew a few folks (friends and family) like that who leveraged their HS athletic careers to get more options and decent aid packages at non-D1 institutions. Season starts, change of heart, oh well. Got a year or two or so free or discounted, though. It’s said to be an issue at the Ivy schools in certain programs (I heard about the coaching challenges for women’s basketball when they go out and get a class, and then some flake out; getting into the school was the endgame). Or, get recruited for a sport and not fit at the school. Get the aid, but still flunk out. At least the kid isn’t stuck with a tab when maybe both sides knew it was a gamble.

For Hartford, it’s that potential for drop-off in quality and commitment that I would be wary of. No skin in the game, but it wouldn’t surprise me either way if, say, Hartford basketball became a consistent presence for D3 playoffs, or you never heard from them again. Under its current leadership, he strikes me as the kind of person who would steer toward the latter. Kinda gives off a slightly more polished “Rutgers 1000” type.

Hartford will join the Commonwealth Coast Conference: https://commonwealthstats.prestosports.c...ases/UHart

(06-21-2022 09:44 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  Hartford will join the Commonwealth Coast Conference: https://commonwealthstats.prestosports.c...ases/UHart

Is it wrong to think this membership is a sign the school wants nothing to do with athletics anymore? This was the conference I thought they were way too big for (budget; by enrollment, they’ll be the second or third largest school I believe) albeit private. Still more prominent than GNAC, but, I thought the NAC more resembled the D3 version of AmEast to which they probably could have fit right in.

Those words the president said about people not coming there for sports. Yikes, with this…tell us how you really feel, you know?

(06-21-2022 09:44 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  Hartford will join the Commonwealth Coast Conference: https://commonwealthstats.prestosports.c...ases/UHart

Good for them, and good luck.

IMO, more schools should do the same.

(06-21-2022 10:14 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(06-21-2022 09:44 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  Hartford will join the Commonwealth Coast Conference: https://commonwealthstats.prestosports.c...ases/UHart

Is it wrong to think this membership is a sign the school wants nothing to do with athletics anymore? This was the conference I thought they were way too big for (budget; by enrollment, they’ll be the second or third largest school I believe) albeit private. Still more prominent than GNAC, but, I thought the NAC more resembled the D3 version of AmEast to which they probably could have fit right in.

Those words the president said about people not coming there for sports. Yikes, with this…tell us how you really feel, you know?

Do you mean the Little East? The CCC is comfortably higher on the athletic and academic totem pole than the NAC.

The NESCAC is the #1 D-3 conference in New England, academically and athletically. Hartford's application would have been laughed at.

The NEWMAC is next academically, and probably athletically. Hartford mentioned it in passing when it first made its decision, but I can't imagine the discussions lasted long. The NEWMAC schools are better than Hartford.

The Little East is probably the next highest athletically. It is all public schools, but Hartford has been there before in the AE. Size wise, Hartford would fit in. But with the Little East being a public school conference there may not have been mutual interest. I think the Little East = America East junior is more accurate.

From there it is probably the CCC or GNAC, athletically (disregarding the all public, all Massachusetts MASCAC). CCC is better academically. Schools leave the NAC for the GNAC when they are looking to upgrade (Colby-Sawyer, Elms, Lasell). Endicott, Suffolk and Western New England have "upgraded" from the GNAC to CCC.

Then you get down to the NAC, which is basically a hodgepodge of schools hoping to be somewhere else soon, but without the opportunity to do so. You have the lower level of Maine publics, which includes a school that would be an eight hour drive from Hartford. You have the two Maine privates that have no other options. You have the two Northern Vermont satellite campuses that never do anything athletically and almost died academically. And then you have a SUNY division that joined recently, none of whom are anything to write home about athletically.

Long story short, if Hartford is staying in a New England based conference, they are probably where they should be.

I believe Hartford will no longer be in the AEC come July 1st, and they informed the conference they would not be participating. So I guess a quasi-transitional year to go before no scholarship athletes are left.

(06-21-2022 02:42 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  I believe Hartford will no longer be in the AEC come July 1st, and they informed the conference they would not be participating. So I guess a quasi-transitional year to go before no scholarship athletes are left.

Other way around. UH would have preferred to spend one more year in AE. AE declined.

Hartford will be a D1 independent this coming academic year, but is also (confusingly) a transitional D3.

(06-21-2022 03:08 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  

(06-21-2022 02:42 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  I believe Hartford will no longer be in the AEC come July 1st, and they informed the conference they would not be participating. So I guess a quasi-transitional year to go before no scholarship athletes are left.

Other way around. UH would have preferred to spend one more year in AE. AE declined.

Hartford will be a D1 independent this coming academic year, but is also (confusingly) a transitional D3.

I believe they will still be a Big Sky member for Men's Golf next year.

I've got an interview set up with CCC leadership on Friday if anybody has any questions they want me to ask

(06-22-2022 10:35 AM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  I've got an interview set up with CCC leadership on Friday if anybody has any questions they want me to ask

How come they don't call themselves C³?

(06-22-2022 10:35 AM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  I've got an interview set up with CCC leadership on Friday if anybody has any questions they want me to ask

Are they concerned about a competitive imbalance with Hartford? On paper it's still one of the bigger/wealthier schools in the conference, and should have a leg up in terms of facilities.

(06-22-2022 10:35 AM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  I've got an interview set up with CCC leadership on Friday if anybody has any questions they want me to ask

Not related to Hartford, but is there any discussion around upgrading Husson from a football associate member to a full member?

(06-22-2022 10:35 AM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  I've got an interview set up with CCC leadership on Friday if anybody has any questions they want me to ask

Two questions:
1. Does the CCC see a wholesale realignment of Division III in the future?
2. How does Division III see NIL within its view of student-athletes?

What are the positives they have seen dropping to D3?

What are the negatives they have seen dropping to D3?

(06-22-2022 12:03 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  

(06-22-2022 10:35 AM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  I've got an interview set up with CCC leadership on Friday if anybody has any questions they want me to ask

Are they concerned about a competitive imbalance with Hartford? On paper it's still one of the bigger/wealthier schools in the conference, and should have a leg up in terms of facilities.

I like this question. I’d want to know if Hartford’s athletic budgets were discussed, requested, and/or thoroughly reviewed, and what that activity produced. Did Hartford advise they intended to decrease some of these budgets further and beyond some of the logical cuts to come from moving down?

Matt, do you anticipate that Hartford will start D3 football, using the sport to bring in tuition paying students who aren’t ready to hang up their cleats and helmets after high school?

(06-22-2022 01:15 PM)solohawks Wrote:  What are the positives they have seen dropping to D3?

What are the negatives they have seen dropping to D3?

The positives are they cut the athletic budget by several $million, and now students will be paying tuition to be on teams rather than getting scholarships. They obviously don't think it will impact enrollment at all -- they didn't have a significant fan base among the students. The negative is the press and some donations lost -- but they think that will be limited to the athletic department, and will be considerably smaller than the cost savings.

I suspect they also see D-III as associated with more academically focused schools in New England, so may in fact be a positive in the long run for enrollment.

That's my WAG on the reasoning. But it took guts to follow through because the professional sports lobby (people who make their living off D-I, whether press or athletic department people or invested athletic donors) always brings down hell on school Presidents who try to drop down.For a school President to do that is like a Republican congressional member voting for gun control, as they know they'll get primaried with a ton of NRA money behind it.

(06-23-2022 04:25 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(06-22-2022 01:15 PM)solohawks Wrote:  What are the positives they have seen dropping to D3?

What are the negatives they have seen dropping to D3?

The positives are they cut the athletic budget by several $million, and now students will be paying tuition to be on teams rather than getting scholarships. They obviously don't think it will impact enrollment at all -- they didn't have a significant fan base among the students. The negative is the press and some donations lost -- but they think that will be limited to the athletic department, and will be considerably smaller than the cost savings.

I suspect they also see D-II as associated with more academically focused schools in New England, so may in fact be a positive in the long run for enrollment.

That's my WAG on the reasoning. But it took guts to follow through because the professional sports lobby (people who make their living off D-I, whether press or athletic department people or invested athletic donors) always brings down hell on school Presidents who try to drop down.For a school President to do that is like a Republican congressional member voting for gun control, as they know they'll get primaried with a ton of NRA money behind it.

Good points. I was mainly asking if they had learned anything they did not forsee. Such as "when we planned on moving down we expected to save X million but in reality we saved Y million more" or "the moving down process was a lot more painful that we anticipated because of X,Y,Z"

(06-22-2022 10:35 AM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  I've got an interview set up with CCC leadership on Friday if anybody has any questions they want me to ask

Since the economics of college sports are different at the D3 level, is Hartford considering adding sports teams when they're in D3 that may be more economically viable than they otherwise would have been at D1? (i.e. Football, Hockey, restarting Tennis, etc.)