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University of Hartford considering dropping down from Division 1
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #201
RE: University of Hartford considering dropping down from Division 1
(05-03-2021 09:12 AM)MemTGRS Wrote:  
(04-22-2021 01:19 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(04-22-2021 01:09 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  I was about to post the same about WSSU. You'd think that the MEAC would beg them to try again if they were needed

Supposedly WSSU President had a public quote that they want nothing to do with D1, sadly. They would've been a perfect fit for a now geographically compact MEAC and have a cool stadium.

In my opinion, it would be wise for the MEAC to become as much of a CIAA mimic as possible. Look at the CIAA tournament attendance. So I would toss out invitations to at least four --- WSSU, Virginia Union, Virginia State, and Bowie State --- and then see who accepts before the next step (if necessary). Maybe this has already happened and each declined?

And good point about the MEAC now being a geographically compact league. I wonder if Hampton and NCA&T would have departed if the MEAC had already shed the far away trifecta of Savannah State, Bethune-Cookman, and Florida A&M?

Maybe those two can now be coaxed to return? I would guess exiting the Celebration Bowl and accepting the playoff auto-bid would be the first required starting point.

Big South is just as compact and has a higher profile and better competition.
05-03-2021 12:32 PM
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Inkblot Offline
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Post: #202
RE: University of Hartford considering dropping down from Division 1
(05-03-2021 09:41 AM)Bronco85 Wrote:  
(05-02-2021 01:31 PM)esayem Wrote:  I just read the NCAA established the University and College Divisions in 1936.

You are correct and David is wrong on this matter. When Idaho joined the PCC in 1922, there were no NCAA divisions. The NCAA created divisions in 1936 which went into effect in 1937. There were only 2 divisions, i.e. the University Division (D1) and the Small College Division (D2). Schools from different divisions found themselves in the same conference. Movement between the divisions was not unusual. In 1973 the Small College Division was split into what we now know as DII and DIII. In 1978 D1 for football was split into D1A and D1AA (now known as FBS and FCS respectively).

The confusion in the start dates is that the University and Small college divisions for football were created in 1937. In 1957 these divisions were first applied to basketball for purposes of the NCAA basketball tournament.

Just a small point of clarification... The highest level of football has a continuous history dating back to the University Division days, when who was in it was determined annually by a committee. When the three-division structure was established, the existing University Division football schools became Division I, but reclassification was taken over by the NCAA. The creation of I-AA mainly allowed schools that were D2 in football and D1 in everything else to have their own division (though some persisted until split classification was banned 15 years later); few existing D1 football schools joined I-AA until a bunch were forced to five years later. So calling it a split of Division I is somewhat misleading.
05-03-2021 02:46 PM
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Bronco85 Offline
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Post: #203
RE: University of Hartford considering dropping down from Division 1
(05-03-2021 02:46 PM)Inkblot Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 09:41 AM)Bronco85 Wrote:  
(05-02-2021 01:31 PM)esayem Wrote:  I just read the NCAA established the University and College Divisions in 1936.

You are correct and David is wrong on this matter. When Idaho joined the PCC in 1922, there were no NCAA divisions. The NCAA created divisions in 1936 which went into effect in 1937. There were only 2 divisions, i.e. the University Division (D1) and the Small College Division (D2). Schools from different divisions found themselves in the same conference. Movement between the divisions was not unusual. In 1973 the Small College Division was split into what we now know as DII and DIII. In 1978 D1 for football was split into D1A and D1AA (now known as FBS and FCS respectively).

The confusion in the start dates is that the University and Small college divisions for football were created in 1937. In 1957 these divisions were first applied to basketball for purposes of the NCAA basketball tournament.

Just a small point of clarification... The highest level of football has a continuous history dating back to the University Division days, when who was in it was determined annually by a committee. When the three-division structure was established, the existing University Division football schools became Division I, but reclassification was taken over by the NCAA. The creation of I-AA mainly allowed schools that were D2 in football and D1 in everything else to have their own division (though some persisted until split classification was banned 15 years later); few existing D1 football schools joined I-AA until a bunch were forced to five years later. So calling it a split of Division I is somewhat misleading.

This is true and was not what I meant by a split (as in a parceling of an existing division into halves) but it did have the effect of creating a division 1 for all sports with a split into subdivisions for football. In any case, UI is the exception to your point. They were D1 at the time of the advent of D1AA and dropped down immediately to that subdivision when the rest of the BSC moved up.
05-03-2021 03:03 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #204
RE: University of Hartford considering dropping down from Division 1
(05-03-2021 03:03 PM)Bronco85 Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 02:46 PM)Inkblot Wrote:  
(05-03-2021 09:41 AM)Bronco85 Wrote:  
(05-02-2021 01:31 PM)esayem Wrote:  I just read the NCAA established the University and College Divisions in 1936.

You are correct and David is wrong on this matter. When Idaho joined the PCC in 1922, there were no NCAA divisions. The NCAA created divisions in 1936 which went into effect in 1937. There were only 2 divisions, i.e. the University Division (D1) and the Small College Division (D2). Schools from different divisions found themselves in the same conference. Movement between the divisions was not unusual. In 1973 the Small College Division was split into what we now know as DII and DIII. In 1978 D1 for football was split into D1A and D1AA (now known as FBS and FCS respectively).

The confusion in the start dates is that the University and Small college divisions for football were created in 1937. In 1957 these divisions were first applied to basketball for purposes of the NCAA basketball tournament.

Just a small point of clarification... The highest level of football has a continuous history dating back to the University Division days, when who was in it was determined annually by a committee. When the three-division structure was established, the existing University Division football schools became Division I, but reclassification was taken over by the NCAA. The creation of I-AA mainly allowed schools that were D2 in football and D1 in everything else to have their own division (though some persisted until split classification was banned 15 years later); few existing D1 football schools joined I-AA until a bunch were forced to five years later. So calling it a split of Division I is somewhat misleading.

This is true and was not what I meant by a split (as in a parceling of an existing division into halves) but it did have the effect of creating a division 1 for all sports with a split into subdivisions for football. In any case, UI is the exception to your point. They were D1 at the time of the advent of D1AA and dropped down immediately to that subdivision when the rest of the BSC moved up.


They never made it clear back then since they did not enforced the rules until 1956. That was when the lower schools can't have bowl games anymore. It is either Commerce or Kingsville was the last Lone Star school that got a major bowl invite.
05-03-2021 05:47 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #205
RE: University of Hartford considering dropping down from Division 1
The Tangerine wasn’t a major bowl until it broke its tie-in with the MAC and SoCon.
05-03-2021 07:02 PM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #206
RE: University of Hartford considering dropping down from Division 1
Looks like this is going to happen

05-06-2021 07:57 PM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #207
RE: University of Hartford considering dropping down from Division 1
At 9 i doubt the AE is in a rush to make a move this year before July. They may be fine at 9 long term as they just went to 10
05-06-2021 08:10 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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Post: #208
RE: University of Hartford considering dropping down from Division 1
(05-06-2021 08:06 PM)johnintx Wrote:  
(05-06-2021 07:57 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Looks like this is going to happen


Looks like it was a done deal all along. Probably the best thing for them.

Yep. The president tasked Hathaway (former UConn AD) specifically to formulate a study with this outcome. The only thing he didn’t expect was to get blindsided by the news station leak, but someone earlier in the thread gave the perfect “presidential profile” of someone dropping their school from D1 — final job close to retirement with no further career aspirations.
05-06-2021 08:12 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #209
RE: University of Hartford considering dropping down from Division 1
Sending my regards to Vin Baker, wherever you are.
05-06-2021 08:13 PM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #210
RE: University of Hartford considering dropping down from Division 1
This won't even take effect until 2025

05-06-2021 08:19 PM
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johnintx Offline
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Post: #211
RE: University of Hartford considering dropping down from Division 1
It looks like it was a done deal all along. It's probably for the best, but the method in which it was done is questionable. That president will probably be getting a nice retirement package soon.

I feel bad for their men's basketball program, who made the Big Dance for the first time only to have their program pulled out from under them. But, if a school isn't willing to go all in on Division I at least at some level, they don't need to be Division I at all.

Division I isn't for everyone.
(This post was last modified: 05-06-2021 08:20 PM by johnintx.)
05-06-2021 08:20 PM
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TDenverFan Offline
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Post: #212
RE: University of Hartford considering dropping down from Division 1
Filing January 2022 will be brutal for them this season, I have to imagine they'll struggle to field teams that are remotely at the D1 level.

That seems slow enough that there's a non 0 chance they undo it, a la New Orleans.
05-06-2021 08:23 PM
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ccd494 Offline
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Post: #213
RE: University of Hartford considering dropping down from Division 1
(05-06-2021 08:23 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  Filing January 2022 will be brutal for them this season, I have to imagine they'll struggle to field teams that are remotely at the D1 level.

That seems slow enough that there's a non 0 chance they undo it, a la New Orleans.

The 2025 date is when they can fully purge existing scholarships and be eligible for D-III tournaments. The timeline is:

'21-'22: Compete in D-I. Will not give any new scholarships beyond what is promised already to incoming frosh.
February '22: NCAA acts on request to drop to D-III
'22-'23: Sophs and older still on scholarship, so technically still D-I but "may pursue additional competition opportunities as we seek provisional membership in a DIII conference."
'23-'24: Juniors and older still on scholarship. Hybrid year.
'24-'25: All seniors who wish to still compete will see their athletic scholarships transition to academic aid. Alternatively, they can keep their athletic aid but not compete. Will be a provisional member of a D-III conference.
'25-'26: eligible for D-III tournaments.
05-06-2021 09:33 PM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #214
RE: University of Hartford considering dropping down from Division 1
(05-06-2021 09:33 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  
(05-06-2021 08:23 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  Filing January 2022 will be brutal for them this season, I have to imagine they'll struggle to field teams that are remotely at the D1 level.

That seems slow enough that there's a non 0 chance they undo it, a la New Orleans.

The 2025 date is when they can fully purge existing scholarships and be eligible for D-III tournaments. The timeline is:

'21-'22: Compete in D-I. Will not give any new scholarships beyond what is promised already to incoming frosh.
February '22: NCAA acts on request to drop to D-III
'22-'23: Sophs and older still on scholarship, so technically still D-I but "may pursue additional competition opportunities as we seek provisional membership in a DIII conference."
'23-'24: Juniors and older still on scholarship. Hybrid year.
'24-'25: All seniors who wish to still compete will see their athletic scholarships transition to academic aid. Alternatively, they can keep their athletic aid but not compete. Will be a provisional member of a D-III conference.
'25-'26: eligible for D-III tournaments.

The transfer portal is going to be in fire
05-06-2021 10:23 PM
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CarlSmithCenter Offline
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Post: #215
RE: University of Hartford considering dropping down from Division 1

Well, they can hire Jim Calhoun now.
(This post was last modified: 05-06-2021 11:17 PM by CarlSmithCenter.)
05-06-2021 11:17 PM
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CenterSquarEd Offline
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Post: #216
RE: University of Hartford considering dropping down from Division 1
(05-06-2021 08:10 PM)solohawks Wrote:  At 9 i doubt the AE is in a rush to make a move this year before July. They may be fine at 9 long term as they just went to 10

America East is all public schools now. That may not be intentional, so a private school like Merrimack could still be on the table for a call-up, if they want it. I don’t know if LIU would look at AE as an upgrade over the NEC.

There aren’t too many D-II publics left in the Northeast. University of the District of Columbia could be compelling if they want to invest in athletics. Southern Connecticut University is out there. Will any of Pennsylvania’s public schools survive rumored mergers by branding and differentiating themselves as Division I?

If the MEAC breaks up, Delaware State wouldn’t be a terrible fit (although they’d need a football home).

They can definitely stay at 9 and see who makes themselves attractive.
05-07-2021 07:31 AM
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Post: #217
RE: University of Hartford considering dropping down from Division 1
I feel bad for the Hartford fans and athletes.

I wonder if NJIT getting invited to America East was in part because the conference brass knew this could be coming.

I’m also curious to see if America East stays at 9, of if they go for 1-3 replacements.
05-07-2021 08:13 AM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #218
RE: University of Hartford considering dropping down from Division 1
(05-07-2021 07:31 AM)CenterSquarEd Wrote:  
(05-06-2021 08:10 PM)solohawks Wrote:  At 9 i doubt the AE is in a rush to make a move this year before July. They may be fine at 9 long term as they just went to 10

America East is all public schools now. That may not be intentional, so a private school like Merrimack could still be on the table for a call-up, if they want it. I don’t know if LIU would look at AE as an upgrade over the NEC.

There aren’t too many D-II publics left in the Northeast. University of the District of Columbia could be compelling if they want to invest in athletics. Southern Connecticut University is out there. Will any of Pennsylvania’s public schools survive rumored mergers by branding and differentiating themselves as Division I?

If the MEAC breaks up, Delaware State wouldn’t be a terrible fit (although they’d need a football home).


They can definitely stay at 9 and see who makes themselves attractive.

With Hartford departing they are at a bit of a crossroads.

They can stay at 9 no problem and keep going business as usual.

If they want to expand, what is the goal? All public school league? football? hockey? To be at an even number?

They could expand to 10 with CCSU and be an all public school northeastern league

They could expand to 10 or 12 with NEC's top private schools (Merrimack, LIU, FDU, Bryant) AND/OR A D2 upgrade (University of New Haven) AND/OR CCSU

They could even try to get the CAA 3 northern private schools back in the fold (Drexel, Hofstra, Northeastern)

They could also try create some neighbors for UMBC (Delaware St, Howard, Mt. St. Mary's)

It all depends on what they want to do
05-07-2021 08:32 AM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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Post: #219
RE: University of Hartford considering dropping down from Division 1
Let’s see:

There’s taking CAA football under new management—Towson, Delaware, & JMU

They could try to lob off CAA’s northern outliers—Hofstra, Northeastern, and Drexel

They could replace a CT private school with a CT private school—Quinipiac

I don’t think going after MEAC schools is advisable; they’d want to bring their football and I think the FB Schools enjoy their association with CAA and the MEAC schools would be a huge downgrade.

They could look at schools like Monmouth or C Conn St too, but the Blue Devils would need a plan for their football.
05-07-2021 09:34 AM
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ccd494 Offline
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Post: #220
RE: University of Hartford considering dropping down from Division 1
(05-07-2021 08:32 AM)solohawks Wrote:  
(05-07-2021 07:31 AM)CenterSquarEd Wrote:  
(05-06-2021 08:10 PM)solohawks Wrote:  At 9 i doubt the AE is in a rush to make a move this year before July. They may be fine at 9 long term as they just went to 10

America East is all public schools now. That may not be intentional, so a private school like Merrimack could still be on the table for a call-up, if they want it. I don’t know if LIU would look at AE as an upgrade over the NEC.

There aren’t too many D-II publics left in the Northeast. University of the District of Columbia could be compelling if they want to invest in athletics. Southern Connecticut University is out there. Will any of Pennsylvania’s public schools survive rumored mergers by branding and differentiating themselves as Division I?

If the MEAC breaks up, Delaware State wouldn’t be a terrible fit (although they’d need a football home).


They can definitely stay at 9 and see who makes themselves attractive.

With Hartford departing they are at a bit of a crossroads.

They can stay at 9 no problem and keep going business as usual.

If they want to expand, what is the goal? All public school league? football? hockey? To be at an even number?

They could expand to 10 with CCSU and be an all public school northeastern league

They could expand to 10 or 12 with NEC's top private schools (Merrimack, LIU, FDU, Bryant) AND/OR A D2 upgrade (University of New Haven) AND/OR CCSU

They could even try to get the CAA 3 northern private schools back in the fold (Drexel, Hofstra, Northeastern)

They could also try create some neighbors for UMBC (Delaware St, Howard, Mt. St. Mary's)

It all depends on what they want to do

Probably stand pat.

-There was talk about merging administrative functions with Hockey East in the past year or two, but that was roundly shot down (including by most of the HEA schools that play in AE).

-Football isn't going to happen because it would be a downgrade for Stony Brook, Albany, UNH, and Maine.

-Expansion is unlikely. Football schools, particularly those either already in the NEC or D-II schools, would not have anywhere to play. I think the AE likes being public research universities.

-Waiting to expand doesn't hurt anything. If, in the future, a school or two leaves then the schools who would be interested now will likely still be very available.

-If the northern CAA schools were interested, that would be a different conversation, but I can't believe they are. They moved on and up. Moving back would be a signal of defeat. The CAA is still a cut above in most sports.

-Having said all that, if CCSU said they wanted to move football to the Pioneer and join? I bet that would be a productive talk.
05-07-2021 09:36 AM
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