(04-12-2021 11:52 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  Or, it may be better for Division II to expand from Division I schools...

That's probably not happening. But if the WAC chooses WTAMU will the Southland Conference raid the Lone Star Conference? It is doubtful that any SWAC members will join the Southland Conference, as of July 2021 the Southland will be down to 6 football members.

The Southland is already down to 6 football members. They don't technically have to expand, but they are 1 football member departure away from being out of compliance with NCAA team sports rules since they do not play 2 of men's baseball, soccer, hockey, lacrosse, volleyball, water polo. The MEAC is in the same spot, except they would need 2 new team sports. At least the Southland plays baseball.

If WTAMU stays in D2 to be loyal to the Lone Star schools, they're just going to end up getting screwed when those other schools join the Southland backfill. There's no room for loyalty in these decisions. Strictly business, nothing personal.

The Southland can’t really “raid” the LoneStar. Moving up divisions is a big deal. All of that involves more time and many than simply changing conferences. The SLC cannot raid the LoneStar. Any LoneStar school will need to do their due diligence for a potential Southland move.

(04-12-2021 01:06 PM)solohawks Wrote:  The Southland is already down to 6 football members. They don't technically have to expand, but they are 1 football member departure away from being out of compliance with NCAA team sports rules since they do not play 2 of men's baseball, soccer, hockey, lacrosse, volleyball, water polo. The MEAC is in the same spot, except they would need 2 new team sports. At least the Southland plays baseball.

The Southland does need to expand.

They have several sports (tennis and golf) which are below the amount needed to maintain an automatic bid. Incarnate Word leaving would really hurt as you mentioned with the football / sport sponsorship situation.

The Southland is ideally looking for current Division I schools (they aren't likely to find them). In football next year, they are already playing a modified double round robin schedule with teams playing 3 or 4 schools home-and-away.

(04-12-2021 01:37 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  If WTAMU stays in D2 to be loyal to the Lone Star schools, they're just going to end up getting screwed when those other schools join the Southland backfill. There's no room for loyalty in these decisions. Strictly business, nothing personal.

Yep. This point exactly.

WTAMU has to make a decision and soon. If they want to go WAC, here's their red carpet. If they would rather go Southland, they have an opportunity. If they remain Division II, the landscape could look vastly different as some schools on the fence are more than likely going to jump at a carrot to move Division I as it may not come again... at least anytime soon.

(04-12-2021 01:43 PM)TexasTerror Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 01:06 PM)solohawks Wrote:  The Southland is already down to 6 football members. They don't technically have to expand, but they are 1 football member departure away from being out of compliance with NCAA team sports rules since they do not play 2 of men's baseball, soccer, hockey, lacrosse, volleyball, water polo. The MEAC is in the same spot, except they would need 2 new team sports. At least the Southland plays baseball.

The Southland does need to expand.

They have several sports (tennis and golf) which are below the amount needed to maintain an automatic bid. Incarnate Word leaving would really hurt as you mentioned with the football / sport sponsorship situation.

The Southland is ideally looking for current Division I schools (they aren't likely to find them). In football next year, they are already playing a modified double round robin schedule with teams playing 3 or 4 schools home-and-away.

(04-12-2021 01:37 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  If WTAMU stays in D2 to be loyal to the Lone Star schools, they're just going to end up getting screwed when those other schools join the Southland backfill. There's no room for loyalty in these decisions. Strictly business, nothing personal.

Yep. This point exactly.

WTAMU has to make a decision and soon. If they want to go WAC, here's their red carpet. If they would rather go Southland, they have an opportunity. If they remain Division II, the landscape could look vastly different as some schools on the fence are more than likely going to jump at a carrot to move Division I as it may not come again... at least anytime soon.

True.

My point was the basketball autobid is not in immediate danger

1 more football departure and they get in ncaa trouble where it really counts

(04-12-2021 01:39 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  The Southland can’t really “raid” the LoneStar. Moving up divisions is a big deal. All of that involves more time and many than simply changing conferences. The SLC cannot raid the LoneStar. Any LoneStar school will need to do their due diligence for a potential Southland move.

Yes, but if the Southland does approach Lone Star schools to move up, those schools will make a decision to move up (or not) regardless of whether West Texas stays in the Lone Star or not. It's every man for himself in conference expansion to move up the ladder.

If West Texas wants to be in D1/FCS, they need to accept the WAC's interest. If they want to stay in D-2, they should do so because it's best for them, not because it's best for Angelo State or someone else.

(04-12-2021 03:29 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 01:39 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  The Southland can’t really “raid” the LoneStar. Moving up divisions is a big deal. All of that involves more time and many than simply changing conferences. The SLC cannot raid the LoneStar. Any LoneStar school will need to do their due diligence for a potential Southland move.

Yes, but if the Southland does approach Lone Star schools to move up, those schools will make a decision to move up (or not) regardless of whether West Texas stays in the Lone Star or not. It's every man for himself in conference expansion to move up the ladder.

If West Texas wants to be in D1/FCS, they need to accept the WAC's interest. If they want to stay in D-2, they should do so because it's best for them, not because it's best for Angelo State or someone else.

I would expect the Southland Conference to invite at least 4 football members of the Lone Star Conference. One from Wichita Falls, one from Commerce, one from Kingsville, and one from Midland/Odessa. That would leave West Texas A&M high and dry if they didn't either join the WAC or the Southland.

The d2 board had rumors that the Southland would look at WTAMU, Angelo State and TA&M-Commerce

Commerce is just east of Dallas and recently won the d2 football national title. Angelo is located in West Texas.

If I'm WT and my choices and I'm moving up... my choices are the WAC which has rivals ACU and Tarleton and is western focused or a rebuilt Southland with Angelo, Corpus and Louisiana schools? That is a no brainer

(04-12-2021 07:28 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  The d2 board had rumors that the Southland would look at WTAMU, Angelo State and TA&M-Commerce

Commerce is just east of Dallas and recently won the d2 football national title. Angelo is located in West Texas.

If I'm WT and my choices and I'm moving up... my choices are the WAC which has rivals ACU and Tarleton and is western focused or a rebuilt Southland with Angelo, Corpus and Louisiana schools? That is a no brainer

So Kingsville only gets a look if they merge with CC?

(04-12-2021 11:32 AM)TexasTerror Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 11:28 AM)solohawks Wrote:  If West Texas is the desired candidate but they are not moving as quickly, then perhaps a hard look at UIW will spur them on

If UIW leaves the Southland, the Southland will all but have to take multiple D2 upgrades

This is what I do not get about WTAMU.

There are going to be D2 upgrades from the Lonestar Conference whether they be to the WAC, Southland or both.

WTAMU has got to realize that some of the like-minded public schools from the state of Texas in the LSC are going to be hard pressed not to take advantage of this opportunity and WTAMU will not want to be left behind with what remains.

A couple of years ago, West A&M AD said they would not go to D1, but last September, he said they should go to D1. I think it had to do mainly moving football to spring that they did not liked. West Texas A&M, Angelo State and Colorado Mesa decided to play football in the fall. All three have the same mindset with Sam Houston State, SFAU and Abilene Christian to play ball. All three are rumored for the WAC. I believe all three have larger facilities than Incarnate Word in all sports.

(04-13-2021 02:04 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 11:32 AM)TexasTerror Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 11:28 AM)solohawks Wrote:  If West Texas is the desired candidate but they are not moving as quickly, then perhaps a hard look at UIW will spur them on

If UIW leaves the Southland, the Southland will all but have to take multiple D2 upgrades

This is what I do not get about WTAMU.

There are going to be D2 upgrades from the Lonestar Conference whether they be to the WAC, Southland or both.

WTAMU has got to realize that some of the like-minded public schools from the state of Texas in the LSC are going to be hard pressed not to take advantage of this opportunity and WTAMU will not want to be left behind with what remains.

A couple of years ago, West A&M AD said they would not go to D1, but last September, he said they should go to D1. I think it had to do mainly moving football to spring that they did not liked. West Texas A&M, Angelo State and Colorado Mesa decided to play football in the fall. All three have the same mindset with Sam Houston State, SFAU and Abilene Christian to play ball. All three are rumored for the WAC. I believe all three have larger facilities than Incarnate Word in all sports.

Ironically, for being the football school that it is SHSU actually didnt play in the fall and is currently in their football season.

Don't you know there is a lot of talking going on between the WAC, the Southland, and the Lone Star conferences right now.

(04-12-2021 08:12 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 07:28 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  The d2 board had rumors that the Southland would look at WTAMU, Angelo State and TA&M-Commerce

Commerce is just east of Dallas and recently won the d2 football national title. Angelo is located in West Texas.

If I'm WT and my choices and I'm moving up... my choices are the WAC which has rivals ACU and Tarleton and is western focused or a rebuilt Southland with Angelo, Corpus and Louisiana schools? That is a no brainer

So Kingsville only gets a look if they merge with CC?

Kingsville has history and proud Texas A&I alumni in its favor, but they've kind of stalled out.
In the past 10 years, they have had 2 football seasons above .500. Basketball had 3 but only a single 20 win season.

While Tarleton, WTAMU and Commerce have all invested in Athletic facilities, Kingsville has stood still.

Kingsville is just south of Corpus Christi 2.5 hours from San Antonio, and 3.5 hours from Houston The start of UTSA, Incarnate Word and Houston Baptist football really hindered their recruiting efforts.

Some of their fans on the d2 board think the school is tanking to make it easier to merge with Corpus (which is what the University System Chancellor wants).

To answer your question, yes. Merger or remaining d2 is their only path forward. The Southland already has A&M Corpus 40 minutes down the road. I can't imagine the Islanders would be okay with sharing the league. Merging the campuses under a new brand changes the conversation.

(04-13-2021 09:02 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 08:12 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(04-12-2021 07:28 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  The d2 board had rumors that the Southland would look at WTAMU, Angelo State and TA&M-Commerce

Commerce is just east of Dallas and recently won the d2 football national title. Angelo is located in West Texas.

If I'm WT and my choices and I'm moving up... my choices are the WAC which has rivals ACU and Tarleton and is western focused or a rebuilt Southland with Angelo, Corpus and Louisiana schools? That is a no brainer

So Kingsville only gets a look if they merge with CC?

Kingsville has history and proud Texas A&I alumni in its favor, but they've kind of stalled out.
In the past 10 years, they have had 2 football seasons above .500. Basketball had 3 but only a single 20 win season.

While Tarleton, WTAMU and Commerce have all invested in Athletic facilities, Kingsville has stood still.

Kingsville is just south of Corpus Christi 2.5 hours from San Antonio, and 3.5 hours from Houston The start of UTSA, Incarnate Word and Houston Baptist football really hindered their recruiting efforts.

Some of their fans on the d2 board think the school is tanking to make it easier to merge with Corpus (which is what the University System Chancellor wants).

To answer your question, yes. Merger or remaining d2 is their only path forward. The Southland already has A&M Corpus 40 minutes down the road. I can't imagine the Islanders would be okay with sharing the league. Merging the campuses under a new brand changes the conversation.

You gotta think if the merger happened the Corpus Christi, they would be a shoein for the WAC

Corpus is nothing but a corpse because they don't have much sports and they don't sponsor the right sports.

It looks to me right now like Incarnate Word, because they are already D1, and because they are in San Antonio, and are strong in football, is the leading candidate for the WAC opening. They have some downside however (basketball, facilities, and attendance mainly) and will have to convince the WAC that they can work that out. WTAMU seems to be comfortable in the Lone Star Conference as a D2, and not likely going to change, though they have fine facilities, especially for D2, and a well rounded program.

(04-13-2021 03:55 PM)YNot Wrote:  

This was taken way back when too. Doesn't mean UVU is starting football. And before David gets any ideas, UC Santa Barbara is not starting football back up.

After today’s lack luster performance against Sam Houston, I don’t think UIW will receive a WAC invitation. West Texas A&M looks to be in the drivers seat if they want it. They would have a couple of nice rivalries with Abilene Christian and Tarleton State already in the league.