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highest NCAA tournament 'unit' earning conference from 1985-2021
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #21
RE: highest NCAA tournament 'unit' earning conference from 1985-2021
(04-07-2021 08:42 PM)jhasting Wrote:  Also learned through this effort that VCU in 2011 & USC in 2021 are the only teams to earn 6 credits in a single tournament.

You mean UCLA.

PAC had a monster tournament this year.
04-08-2021 04:30 PM
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Wahoowa84 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: highest NCAA tournament 'unit' earning conference from 1985-2021
(04-08-2021 01:33 PM)jhasting Wrote:  
(04-08-2021 12:49 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(04-08-2021 11:21 AM)jhasting Wrote:  
(04-08-2021 11:02 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(04-08-2021 10:52 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Winning games should have a lot more value than mere participation. For that matter, IMO participation via automatic qualifier should have less value than selection via an agreed merit-based criteria. It doesn’t take much effort to form a conference and schedule games...winning games is more challenging (either in the regular season or during the tournament). Money should not be disbursed as a participation reward.

I agree in principle, but the conferences run this thing via the NCAA, and no conference wants a purely "commission based" system, because nobody wants to be left totally out of the money.

So .... everyone gets a "base" of one unit, call it a base salary for participation if you like, then the rest based on merit. That's IMO a big improvement over now, where you can collect seven units like the ACC just did merely for participation.

currently 68 units for participation and 64 units for wins are distributes to the conferences.
This distribution (including wins) is also likely why the 4 play-in games are not all 16(lowest) seeds as play-in games were prior to 1985. If all current play-in games were between 16 seeds then the smaller conferences would automatically get 2 more WIN units, by making two of the play-in games between last 4 teams in increases the chance that P6 or mid-majors can earn 2 more WIN units.

Win units should increase as a team advances through the tournament.

First four and round of 64 = 1 win unit
Round of 32 = 2 win units
Round of 16 = 3 or 4 win units
Etc.


if incrementing units awarded : 1 unit for win play-in or 1st rnd, 2 units for 2nd rnd, 3 units for S16, 4units for E8, 5 units for F4, and 6 units for winning NC. 68 units for participation and 124 units for winning. Result is P6 keeping 65% of money vs 59% using current NCAA distribution.
incrementing unit show BIG12, WCC, and PAC-12 get 2-4% increase in money as expected but every mid major and small conference (other than WCC and AAC) are reduced. Only ACC & B1G are reduced more than 1%


INCR UNITS INCR % CURRENT DIFF
2020-21 A-10 2 1.04% 1.52% -0.47% virginia-commonwealth(1) st-bonaventure(1)
2020-21 A-Sun 1 0.52% 0.76% -0.24% liberty(1)
2020-21 AAC 12 6.25% 4.55% 1.70% houston(11) wichita-state(1)
2020-21 ACC 13 6.77% 8.33% -1.56% florida-state(4) syracuse(4) georgia-tech(1) virginia(1) virginia-tech(1) north-carolina(1) clemson(1)
2020-21 AEC 1 0.52% 0.76% -0.24% hatford(1)
2020-21 Big 12 34 17.71% 12.88% 4.83% baylor(22) west-virginia(2) kansas(2) oklahoma-state(2) oklahoma(2) texas-tech(2) texas(1) missouri(1)
2020-21 Big East 10 5.21% 6.06% -0.85% villanova(4) creighton(4) georgetown(1) connecticut(1)
2020-21 Big Sky 1 0.52% 0.76% -0.24% eastern-washington(1)
2020-21 Big South 1 0.52% 0.76% -0.24% winthrop(1)
2020-21 Big Ten 20 10.42% 12.88% -2.46% michigan(7) iowa(2) wisconsin(2) rutgers(2) illinois(2) maryland(2) ohio-state(1) purdue(1) michigan-state(1)
2020-21 Big West 1 0.52% 0.76% -0.24% california-santa-barbara(1)
2020-21 CAA 1 0.52% 0.76% -0.24% drexel(1)
2020-21 CUSA 2 1.04% 1.52% -0.47% north-texas(2)
2020-21 Horizon 1 0.52% 0.76% -0.24% cleveland-state(1)
2020-21 MAAC 1 0.52% 0.76% -0.24% iona(1)
2020-21 MAC 2 1.04% 1.52% -0.47% ohio(2)
2020-21 MEAC 2 1.04% 1.52% -0.47% norfolk-state(2)
2020-21 MVC 6 3.13% 3.79% -0.66% loyola-il(4) drake(2)
2020-21 MWC 2 1.04% 1.52% -0.47% utah-state(1) san-diego-state(1)
2020-21 NEC 1 0.52% 0.76% -0.24% mount-st-marys(1)
2020-21 OVC 1 0.52% 0.76% -0.24% morehead-state(1)
2020-21 Pac-12 32 16.67% 14.39% 2.27% oregon-state(7) southern-california(7) oregon(4) colorado(2) ucla(12)
2020-21 Patriot 1 0.52% 0.76% -0.24% colgate(1)
2020-21 SEC 16 8.33% 9.09% -0.76% arkansas(7) alabama(4) florida(2) louisiana-state(2) tennessee(1)
2020-21 SWAC 2 1.04% 1.52% -0.47% texas-southern(2)
2020-21 Southern 1 0.52% 0.76% -0.24% north-carolina-greensboro(1)
2020-21 Southland 2 1.04% 1.52% -0.47% abilene-christian(2)
2020-21 Summit 4 2.08% 2.27% -0.19% oral-roberts(4)
2020-21 Sun Belt 1 0.52% 0.76% -0.24% appalachian-state(1)
2020-21 WAC 1 0.52% 0.76% -0.24% grand-canyon(1)
2020-21 WCC 17 8.85% 4.55% 4.31% gonzaga(16) brigham-young(1)

I’m surprised that the impact would not have been greater. Regardless, it’s going in the right direction.

That’s the sort of trade-off that would allow reducing the number of at-large bids...making the regular season more important. Conferences could have serious discussions about whether regular season champions should represent their conference (rather than conference tournament winners).
04-08-2021 04:49 PM
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DawgNBama Offline
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Post: #23
RE: highest NCAA tournament 'unit' earning conference from 1985-2021
(04-07-2021 08:46 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(04-07-2021 06:46 PM)schmolik Wrote:  IMO, if you want to measure the accomplishment of a conference in a tournament, you count the number of wins in a tournament. Units shouldn't be because teams could have gotten in that didn't deserve to get in. Win % shouldn't be because conferences are penalized for teams just getting in when they would be better off if they didn't make it. If you go by wins, the teams that get in but lose in the first round don't reward a conference but don't penalize it either. In general IMO 97% of the NCAA teams that make it deserve to make it, a conference that gets 8 or 9 teams should get more chances to win games and if they win more games because of it, so be it. But they better win. The Big Ten got 9 in and the Pac 12 got only 5 but the Pac 12 won more games. I hate it but I have to admit it.

I agree with this. Units should be earned only by winning games, not by merely being in the tournament. Otherwise, conferences that flop, like the B1G did this year, get disproportionately rewarded, because they get a ton of credits by having a lot of teams in even if they don't win anything.

As you say, the reward for a conference having a lot of good teams should be getting more in and thus having more chances to win games. But they should not get rewarded just for getting teams in.

I think teams should get a half credit for making the tournament. Not a whole credit, but I would be fine with half of a credit.
04-08-2021 04:59 PM
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Post: #24
RE: highest NCAA tournament 'unit' earning conference from 1985-2021
I guess the issue would be should multiple bid conferences be rewarded units for just getting teams in the tournament and the answer I think is no.

On the other hand, I think each conference should get a unit just for making the tournament, especially after reading that the University of Hartford didn't make a cent after making the NCAA Tournament this year: https://csnbbs.com/thread-920349.html. This season the NCAA did make sort of a precedent when they had an at large bid would be replaced by an at large pool but a one bid conference team would be replaced by a team from the same conference. No reason to take away the SWAC's only team if the SWAC representative had to pull out because of COVID-19.
04-09-2021 06:03 AM
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jhasting Offline
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Post: #25
RE: highest NCAA tournament 'unit' earning conference from 1985-2021
(04-09-2021 06:03 AM)schmolik Wrote:  I guess the issue would be should multiple bid conferences be rewarded units for just getting teams in the tournament and the answer I think is no.

On the other hand, I think each conference should get a unit just for making the tournament, especially after reading that the University of Hartford didn't make a cent after making the NCAA Tournament this year: https://csnbbs.com/thread-920349.html. This season the NCAA did make sort of a precedent when they had an at large bid would be replaced by an at large pool but a one bid conference team would be replaced by a team from the same conference. No reason to take away the SWAC's only team if the SWAC representative had to pull out because of COVID-19.

another COVID implication : possibly no unit for Ivy League this year : https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2020/12/0...six-years/

"According to Tony Weaver, professor of sports management at Elon University and a former college athletic administrator at several Division I schools, tournament units were initially created as a mode for the NCAA to “spread the wealth” without a blatant commercialization of college athletics."
(This post was last modified: 04-09-2021 06:43 AM by jhasting.)
04-09-2021 06:41 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #26
RE: highest NCAA tournament 'unit' earning conference from 1985-2021
(04-08-2021 04:59 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(04-07-2021 08:46 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(04-07-2021 06:46 PM)schmolik Wrote:  IMO, if you want to measure the accomplishment of a conference in a tournament, you count the number of wins in a tournament. Units shouldn't be because teams could have gotten in that didn't deserve to get in. Win % shouldn't be because conferences are penalized for teams just getting in when they would be better off if they didn't make it. If you go by wins, the teams that get in but lose in the first round don't reward a conference but don't penalize it either. In general IMO 97% of the NCAA teams that make it deserve to make it, a conference that gets 8 or 9 teams should get more chances to win games and if they win more games because of it, so be it. But they better win. The Big Ten got 9 in and the Pac 12 got only 5 but the Pac 12 won more games. I hate it but I have to admit it.

I agree with this. Units should be earned only by winning games, not by merely being in the tournament. Otherwise, conferences that flop, like the B1G did this year, get disproportionately rewarded, because they get a ton of credits by having a lot of teams in even if they don't win anything.

As you say, the reward for a conference having a lot of good teams should be getting more in and thus having more chances to win games. But they should not get rewarded just for getting teams in.

I think teams should get a half credit for making the tournament. Not a whole credit, but I would be fine with half of a credit.

Eh, I see your point, but I still do not like the idea of conferences getting an automatic anything, even half a unit, for at-large teams. And, upon further review, I don't want to hurt the little guys by cutting them down.

So I like giving each conference one unit for its auto-bid, then making everything else based on winning. This would make the tournament unit allocation much more winning-based than it currently is, it would change the participation/merit unit ratio from 68p/64m to 32p/100m, while still not harming the low-income conferences.

IMO that would be a good balance.
(This post was last modified: 04-09-2021 08:06 AM by quo vadis.)
04-09-2021 08:03 AM
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