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News George Orwell’s Last Public Interview Contains A Terrifying Warning Of The Future…
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #21
RE: George Orwell’s Last Public Interview Contains A Terrifying Warning Of The Future…
(04-08-2021 02:24 PM)Danforth Wrote:  
(04-08-2021 01:37 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  
(04-08-2021 11:56 AM)Danforth Wrote:  
(04-08-2021 11:03 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(04-08-2021 10:47 AM)smudge12 Wrote:  Both points can be somewhat right, somewhat wrong, but they mostly miss Orwell's message of anti-authoritarianism.

Orwell opposed authoritarianism in any form. He was a socialist because he believed the myth that socialism truly gives power to the people instead of to the government. But here's the problem with that. Massive income and wealth transfers don't work because people don't like to give up what they earned and rightfully consider to be theirs to a bunch of deadbeats. So you need a strong government, backed by somebody like the SS or KGB, to implement socialism.

OK, I expect you to counter with the Nordic countries or other examples of "European socialism." But they aren't socialist. Their systems are build around capitalism with an extensive safety net, not around massive redistribution of income or wealth. Yes, Sweden has a top individual tax rate of 60%, but they start at 35% and their middle class pays 55%, while corporations pay only 22%. So if you are an entrepreneur, you incorporate your business, take out only what you need to live, and grow your wealth inside the corporation--just like Americans used to do when the top individual rate was 91% and the corporate rate was 52%. Those middle class folks paying 55% basically get that much back in services--education, health care, child care, you name it. And remember, a substantial portion of their tax revenues come from consumption taxes (VAT/GST) which are inherently regressive. So by any measure, their tax system is way more regressive than ours. It's just a different model, but fundamentally way more capitalist than socialist.

Okay then why not just be like Sweden then?

For one, I don't think Sweden is giving their peoples hard earned money to despots who hate us. I'm sure even you're a Liberal you can understand that the practice of giving these countries their allowances is not advantageous to anyone except to the receiver. This country does NOT know how to spend our money, they think it's theirs (congresspeople). They spend our money like people receiving welfare, uncaring, because they didn't have to EARN it.

That's an excellent point. Sweden does not have the same obligations as we do.

That said, I still see some advantage to help promote democracies as a way to "buffer" ourselves from our enemies.

The bigger point I would like to make however is that Socialism in itself is no more dangerous as any other "ism" .


I think politicians do Americans a big disservice by making other forms of government out to be evil. No form of government is inherently evil. It's the people that are running the government that we need to worry about.

On the contrary, socialism is the first step toward almost all of the other isms known: Fascism, Communism, Corporatism, Feminism, Globalism, Nihilism, even Fundamentalism. Why Nihilism & Fundamentalism? Because God gives the pathway to God, not the approval of a collective of men, or women, nor the denial of them. Socialism is the first step because it is the step in which humanity decides the individual has less responsibility and control of him or herself. God gives choice, whether to believe or not is our decision. The Devil or human(ism) seeks to take it away and use its collective nature for power. From there Lord Acton sumps it up. "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely!"

The definition of "ISM": The one who can take the "I" and make "I" "S"erve the "M"asses is the one with the "Power". So, I Serving Masses is what any ISM is.
(This post was last modified: 04-08-2021 02:47 PM by JRsec.)
04-08-2021 02:38 PM
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Danforth Offline
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Post: #22
RE: George Orwell’s Last Public Interview Contains A Terrifying Warning Of The Future…
(04-08-2021 02:38 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-08-2021 02:24 PM)Danforth Wrote:  
(04-08-2021 01:37 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  
(04-08-2021 11:56 AM)Danforth Wrote:  
(04-08-2021 11:03 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Orwell opposed authoritarianism in any form. He was a socialist because he believed the myth that socialism truly gives power to the people instead of to the government. But here's the problem with that. Massive income and wealth transfers don't work because people don't like to give up what they earned and rightfully consider to be theirs to a bunch of deadbeats. So you need a strong government, backed by somebody like the SS or KGB, to implement socialism.

OK, I expect you to counter with the Nordic countries or other examples of "European socialism." But they aren't socialist. Their systems are build around capitalism with an extensive safety net, not around massive redistribution of income or wealth. Yes, Sweden has a top individual tax rate of 60%, but they start at 35% and their middle class pays 55%, while corporations pay only 22%. So if you are an entrepreneur, you incorporate your business, take out only what you need to live, and grow your wealth inside the corporation--just like Americans used to do when the top individual rate was 91% and the corporate rate was 52%. Those middle class folks paying 55% basically get that much back in services--education, health care, child care, you name it. And remember, a substantial portion of their tax revenues come from consumption taxes (VAT/GST) which are inherently regressive. So by any measure, their tax system is way more regressive than ours. It's just a different model, but fundamentally way more capitalist than socialist.

Okay then why not just be like Sweden then?

For one, I don't think Sweden is giving their peoples hard earned money to despots who hate us. I'm sure even you're a Liberal you can understand that the practice of giving these countries their allowances is not advantageous to anyone except to the receiver. This country does NOT know how to spend our money, they think it's theirs (congresspeople). They spend our money like people receiving welfare, uncaring, because they didn't have to EARN it.

That's an excellent point. Sweden does not have the same obligations as we do.

That said, I still see some advantage to help promote democracies as a way to "buffer" ourselves from our enemies.

The bigger point I would like to make however is that Socialism in itself is no more dangerous as any other "ism" .


I think politicians do Americans a big disservice by making other forms of government out to be evil. No form of government is inherently evil. It's the people that are running the government that we need to worry about.

On the contrary, socialism is the first step toward almost all of the other isms known: Fascism, Communism, Corporatism, Feminism, Globalism, Nihilism, even Fundamentalism. Why Nihilism & Fundamentalism? Because God gives the pathway to God, not the approval of a collective of men, or women, nor the denial of them. Socialism is the first step because it is the step in which humanity decides the individual has less responsibility and control of him or herself. God gives choice, whether to believe or not is our decision. The Devil or human(ism) seeks to take it away and use its collective nature for power. From there Lord Acton sumps it up. "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely!"

The definition of "ISM": The one who can take the "I" and make "I" "S"erve the "M"asses is the one with the "Power". So, I Serving Masses is what any ISM is.

I will respectfully disagree. Many forms of government are good in theory. It's when you put them into practice that you run into problems.

Some of the other "isms" that you mentioned such as Fascism and Nihilism aren't forms of government at all but rather ways of governing.

Your omission of Nationalism is also troubling.
04-08-2021 02:58 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #23
RE: George Orwell’s Last Public Interview Contains A Terrifying Warning Of The Future…
(04-08-2021 02:58 PM)Danforth Wrote:  
(04-08-2021 02:38 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-08-2021 02:24 PM)Danforth Wrote:  
(04-08-2021 01:37 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  
(04-08-2021 11:56 AM)Danforth Wrote:  Okay then why not just be like Sweden then?

For one, I don't think Sweden is giving their peoples hard earned money to despots who hate us. I'm sure even you're a Liberal you can understand that the practice of giving these countries their allowances is not advantageous to anyone except to the receiver. This country does NOT know how to spend our money, they think it's theirs (congresspeople). They spend our money like people receiving welfare, uncaring, because they didn't have to EARN it.

That's an excellent point. Sweden does not have the same obligations as we do.

That said, I still see some advantage to help promote democracies as a way to "buffer" ourselves from our enemies.

The bigger point I would like to make however is that Socialism in itself is no more dangerous as any other "ism" .


I think politicians do Americans a big disservice by making other forms of government out to be evil. No form of government is inherently evil. It's the people that are running the government that we need to worry about.

On the contrary, socialism is the first step toward almost all of the other isms known: Fascism, Communism, Corporatism, Feminism, Globalism, Nihilism, even Fundamentalism. Why Nihilism & Fundamentalism? Because God gives the pathway to God, not the approval of a collective of men, or women, nor the denial of them. Socialism is the first step because it is the step in which humanity decides the individual has less responsibility and control of him or herself. God gives choice, whether to believe or not is our decision. The Devil or human(ism) seeks to take it away and use its collective nature for power. From there Lord Acton sumps it up. "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely!"

The definition of "ISM": The one who can take the "I" and make "I" "S"erve the "M"asses is the one with the "Power". So, I Serving Masses is what any ISM is.

I will respectfully disagree. Many forms of government are good in theory. It's when you put them into practice that you run into problems.

Some of the other "isms" that you mentioned such as Fascism and Nihilism aren't forms of government at all but rather ways of governing.

Your omission of Nationalism is also troubling.

My point was and is that all forms of "ISM" are bad, including but not limited to those I listed, and of course Nationalism is one. The reason I didn't distinguish between forms of governing and governing is that both are intended to consolidate power at the expense of the individual. Nationalism for instance is really just a face of Fascism or Communism (which is also a theory never attained in practice).

Whether you believe in God or not the individual choice is at the heart of freedom and personal accountability.
04-08-2021 03:13 PM
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Danforth Offline
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Post: #24
RE: George Orwell’s Last Public Interview Contains A Terrifying Warning Of The Future…
(04-08-2021 03:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-08-2021 02:58 PM)Danforth Wrote:  
(04-08-2021 02:38 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-08-2021 02:24 PM)Danforth Wrote:  
(04-08-2021 01:37 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  For one, I don't think Sweden is giving their peoples hard earned money to despots who hate us. I'm sure even you're a Liberal you can understand that the practice of giving these countries their allowances is not advantageous to anyone except to the receiver. This country does NOT know how to spend our money, they think it's theirs (congresspeople). They spend our money like people receiving welfare, uncaring, because they didn't have to EARN it.

That's an excellent point. Sweden does not have the same obligations as we do.

That said, I still see some advantage to help promote democracies as a way to "buffer" ourselves from our enemies.

The bigger point I would like to make however is that Socialism in itself is no more dangerous as any other "ism" .


I think politicians do Americans a big disservice by making other forms of government out to be evil. No form of government is inherently evil. It's the people that are running the government that we need to worry about.

On the contrary, socialism is the first step toward almost all of the other isms known: Fascism, Communism, Corporatism, Feminism, Globalism, Nihilism, even Fundamentalism. Why Nihilism & Fundamentalism? Because God gives the pathway to God, not the approval of a collective of men, or women, nor the denial of them. Socialism is the first step because it is the step in which humanity decides the individual has less responsibility and control of him or herself. God gives choice, whether to believe or not is our decision. The Devil or human(ism) seeks to take it away and use its collective nature for power. From there Lord Acton sumps it up. "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely!"

The definition of "ISM": The one who can take the "I" and make "I" "S"erve the "M"asses is the one with the "Power". So, I Serving Masses is what any ISM is.

I will respectfully disagree. Many forms of government are good in theory. It's when you put them into practice that you run into problems.

Some of the other "isms" that you mentioned such as Fascism and Nihilism aren't forms of government at all but rather ways of governing.

Your omission of Nationalism is also troubling.

My point was and is that all forms of "ISM" are bad, including but not limited to those I listed, and of course Nationalism is one. The reason I didn't distinguish between forms of governing and governing is that both are intended to consolidate power at the expense of the individual. Nationalism for instance is really just a face of Fascism or Communism (which is also a theory never attained in practice).

Whether you believe in God or not the individual choice is at the heart of freedom and personal accountability.

I see what you are saying now. I can agree with that.
04-08-2021 03:14 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: George Orwell’s Last Public Interview Contains A Terrifying Warning Of The Future…
(04-08-2021 02:58 PM)Danforth Wrote:  Your omission of Nationalism is also troubling.

Why? Nationalism combined with socialism has proved to be a nasty mix, obviously. But there are legitimate arguments for nationalism as opposed to globalism.

Should we all be part of one global empire controlled by a small group of elites? The British Empire came about as close as possible, but even they permitted quite a bit of autonomy in their colonies.
04-09-2021 07:43 AM
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Post: #26
RE: George Orwell’s Last Public Interview Contains A Terrifying Warning Of The Future…
He was dead wrong about sex being deemphasized and minimized
04-09-2021 08:01 AM
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Post: #27
RE: George Orwell’s Last Public Interview Contains A Terrifying Warning Of The Future…
(04-09-2021 08:01 AM)solohawks Wrote:  He was dead wrong about sex being deemphasized and minimized

Orwell was on target politically with regards to the rights of people. Paul Harvey was spot on about morality and sex, and the progression the left has taken in eroding our core values.
04-09-2021 08:09 AM
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Post: #28
RE: George Orwell’s Last Public Interview Contains A Terrifying Warning Of The Future…
(04-09-2021 08:09 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-09-2021 08:01 AM)solohawks Wrote:  He was dead wrong about sex being deemphasized and minimized

Orwell was on target politically with regards to the rights of people. Paul Harvey was spot on about morality and sex, and the progression the left has taken in eroding our core values.

Orwell saw the party deemphazing sex because he equated sex with freedom

What has happened is the party has used their ideas of sexuality to force conformity
(This post was last modified: 04-09-2021 08:49 AM by solohawks.)
04-09-2021 08:49 AM
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RE: George Orwell’s Last Public Interview Contains A Terrifying Warning Of The Future…

04-12-2021 11:12 AM
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RE: George Orwell’s Last Public Interview Contains A Terrifying Warning Of The Future…
(04-12-2021 11:12 AM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

#ironyB4
04-12-2021 11:13 AM
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