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NCAA Final Thoughts Gonzaga vs Baylor
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jdgaucho Offline
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Post: #61
RE: NCAA Final Thoughts Gonzaga vs Baylor
04-06-2021 07:20 AM
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cubucks Offline
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Post: #62
RE: NCAA Final Thoughts Gonzaga vs Baylor
Congratulations to the Baylor Bears! What a total dominating performance.
Gonzaga was so close, yet, so far away. Congratulations to them as well.
04-06-2021 07:27 AM
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Post: #63
RE: NCAA Final Thoughts Gonzaga vs Baylor
Is the MWC that better of an option over the WCC? Gonzaga is able to get a 1 seed out of the WCC so I don't see how a move to the MWC will help them.

Part of the reason Gonzaga stayed is they worked out a 50/50 split of the tournament units earned. That maxes out at 5 units (final four) but its making their athletic department rich.

That is another reason that while disappointed, Few is overdelivering what you can normally do with a program outside of a power conference.
04-06-2021 07:30 AM
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thatFFnerd Offline
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Post: #64
NCAA Final Thoughts Gonzaga vs Baylor
Just want to congratulate both the 2021 NCAA basketball tournament champions the Baylor bears. Also want to congratulate Gonzaga on a great season both overcoming Covid issues to finish the season. https://cbbreview.com/2021/04/06/baylor-...champions/


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04-06-2021 07:45 AM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #65
RE: NCAA Final Thoughts Gonzaga vs Baylor
(04-06-2021 12:00 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  My take is to wait until the XII mess is figured out in a few years. If the PAC loses top schools, then lobby to join the remaining PAC with St. Mary’s and BYU along with the cream of the MWC. If the PAC remains as-is, lobby to join the MWC with St. Mary’s.

The XII might be looking east at Florida State instead of pulling in PAC schools.

Washington St I think would block Gonzaga.

I think more possibilities exist for getting a good 11th member in the WCC. SDSU has discussed AAC membership FB only. USC could leave the PAC and go independent if it wanted to. Either would make the WCC deeper in basketball.
04-06-2021 07:46 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #66
RE: NCAA Final Thoughts Gonzaga vs Baylor
(04-06-2021 07:20 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  https://sports.yahoo.com/no-choke-gonzag...33327.html

Funny thing is, when I first started watching hoops in the early 1970s, going undefeated was commonplace. I saw three teams - two UCLA teams and then Indiana in 1976 - do it in like the first five years I was watching college basketball.

It was kind of like horse racing's triple crown back then - my dad got so excited when Secretariat won it in 1973, because he would tell us the last time it had happened was 1948, when he was a little boy. And 25 years seemed like an eternity to an 8-year old like me. But I saw it happen 3 times in the first decade I watched horse racing, in 1973, 1977 and 1978.

Nobody knew it would be 37 years before it happened again. Just like in 1976 nobody knew we'd be sitting here 45 years later waiting for it to happen again.

You just never know.
(This post was last modified: 04-06-2021 08:07 AM by quo vadis.)
04-06-2021 08:07 AM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #67
RE: NCAA Final Thoughts Gonzaga vs Baylor
(04-06-2021 08:07 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(04-06-2021 07:20 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  https://sports.yahoo.com/no-choke-gonzag...33327.html

Funny thing is, when I first started watching hoops in the early 1970s, going undefeated was commonplace. I saw three teams - two UCLA teams and then Indiana in 1976 - do it in like the first five years I was watching college basketball.

It was kind of like horse racing's triple crown back then - my dad got so excited when Secretariat won it in 1973, because he would tell us the last time it had happened was 1948, when he was a little boy. And 25 years seemed like an eternity to an 8-year old like me. But I saw it happen 3 times in the first decade I watched horse racing, in 1973, 1977 and 1978.

Nobody knew it would be 37 years before it happened again. Just like in 1976 nobody knew we'd be sitting here 45 years later waiting for it to happen again.

You just never know.

Before the money of the power leagues got into it.

Mid majors have a better chance of it doing it today Larry Bird style than the 1 and done power programs.
04-06-2021 08:09 AM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #68
RE: NCAA Final Thoughts Gonzaga vs Baylor
Major congrats to Baylor. What a dominant performance.

And congrats to Gonzaga on a stupendous season. The Zags were an outstanding team that simply played a team that is better than all the rest.
04-06-2021 08:11 AM
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #69
RE: NCAA Final Thoughts Gonzaga vs Baylor
(04-06-2021 07:19 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  
(04-06-2021 12:00 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  I just finished watching the game - I usually have to record games to watch later that night.

Terrific game by Baylor - well earned. They made us look midmajor. They had the tougher road to the championship and that consistent testing helps keep you strong and sharp:

Baylor: XII, Hartford, Wisconsin, Villanova, Arkansas, Houston - Champions
Gonzaga: WCC, Norfolk St, Oklahoma, Creighton, USC, UCLA - Runner-Up

You can’t (generally) pick your conference or NCAA tournament opponents but Gonzaga wasn’t tested through the season. That’s always been the knock on us and it showed tonight.

Being on a realignment board, I have two thoughts on Gonzaga’s conference affiliation: 1) the WCC is a great institutional fit but lacks weekly competition, 2) the MWC is a much more competitive conference but lacks the institutional fit.

My take is to wait until the XII mess is figured out in a few years. If the PAC loses top schools, then lobby to join the remaining PAC with St. Mary’s and BYU along with the cream of the MWC. If the PAC remains as-is, lobby to join the MWC with St. Mary’s.

How well did the MWC prepare SDSU and Utah State for the Tourney? Both were shellacked in the first round by their opponents.

Ironically, UC Santa Barbara might have been better prepared for their matchup vs Creighton thanks to their conference foes, and two games with your WCC friends Loyola Marymount.

UCSB had a good team this year. I thought they had a decent shot at the Sweet 16 but that's not year-in, year-out with the Big West. Lately, I will say, the Big West has been on the up.

I would be inclined to believe a conference slate that included San Diego St, Nevada, Utah St, Boise St, Colorado St, and occasionally UNLV and New Mexico would be a stronger lineup than the WCC outside of BYU and St. Mary's.
04-06-2021 09:47 AM
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SoCalBobcat78 Online
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Post: #70
RE: NCAA Final Thoughts Gonzaga vs Baylor
(04-06-2021 12:00 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  I just finished watching the game - I usually have to record games to watch later that night.

Terrific game by Baylor - well earned. They made us look midmajor. They had the tougher road to the championship and that consistent testing helps keep you strong and sharp:

Baylor: XII, Hartford, Wisconsin, Villanova, Arkansas, Houston - Champions
Gonzaga: WCC, Norfolk St, Oklahoma, Creighton, USC, UCLA - Runner-Up

You can’t (generally) pick your conference or NCAA tournament opponents but Gonzaga wasn’t tested through the season. That’s always been the knock on us and it showed tonight.

Being on a realignment board, I have two thoughts on Gonzaga’s conference affiliation: 1) the WCC is a great institutional fit but lacks weekly competition, 2) the MWC is a much more competitive conference but lacks the institutional fit.

My take is to wait until the XII mess is figured out in a few years. If the PAC loses top schools, then lobby to join the remaining PAC with St. Mary’s and BYU along with the cream of the MWC. If the PAC remains as-is, lobby to join the MWC with St. Mary’s.

An overreaction to one loss. Gonzaga had the 13th ranked Strength of Schedule. The Baylor Strength of Schedule was ranked 25th. Gonzaga ranked No. 1 in Net Ranking. They beat some good teams during the season and in the tournament:
Beat Kansas by 12
Beat Auburn by 23
Beat West Virginia by 5
Beat Iowa by 11
Beat Virginia by 23
Beat Oklahoma by 16
Beat Creighton by 18
Beat USC by 19
Beat UCLA by 3

They were 9-0 against the Power 6 of basketball going into the championship game. They have two certain NBA first round picks (Suggs and Kispert). So they have talent. They have the 6th ranked player in the country coming in from Nebraska, 6-5 guard Hunter Sallis and the top ranked player in the country, 7-1 center Chet “Baby Porzingis” Holmgren, who is said to be on the way. He has not offically announced.
https://247sports.com/Article/Gonzaga-ba...163748759/

The Pac-12 is not an option and the MWC is not any better. Gonzaga can always play San Diego State and Utah State in nonconference if they are looking for quality MWC opponents. The WCC is the right conference for Gonzaga.
(This post was last modified: 04-06-2021 10:35 AM by SoCalBobcat78.)
04-06-2021 10:33 AM
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #71
RE: NCAA Final Thoughts Gonzaga vs Baylor
(04-06-2021 10:33 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(04-06-2021 12:00 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  I just finished watching the game - I usually have to record games to watch later that night.

Terrific game by Baylor - well earned. They made us look midmajor. They had the tougher road to the championship and that consistent testing helps keep you strong and sharp:

Baylor: XII, Hartford, Wisconsin, Villanova, Arkansas, Houston - Champions
Gonzaga: WCC, Norfolk St, Oklahoma, Creighton, USC, UCLA - Runner-Up

You can’t (generally) pick your conference or NCAA tournament opponents but Gonzaga wasn’t tested through the season. That’s always been the knock on us and it showed tonight.

Being on a realignment board, I have two thoughts on Gonzaga’s conference affiliation: 1) the WCC is a great institutional fit but lacks weekly competition, 2) the MWC is a much more competitive conference but lacks the institutional fit.

My take is to wait until the XII mess is figured out in a few years. If the PAC loses top schools, then lobby to join the remaining PAC with St. Mary’s and BYU along with the cream of the MWC. If the PAC remains as-is, lobby to join the MWC with St. Mary’s.

An overreaction to one loss. Gonzaga had the 13th ranked Strength of Schedule. The Baylor Strength of Schedule was ranked 25th. Gonzaga ranked No. 1 in Net Ranking. They beat some good teams during the season and in the tournament:
Beat Kansas by 12
Beat Auburn by 23
Beat West Virginia by 5
Beat Iowa by 11
Beat Virginia by 23
Beat Oklahoma by 16
Beat Creighton by 18
Beat USC by 19
Beat UCLA by 3

They were 9-0 against the Power 6 of basketball going into the championship game. They have two certain NBA first round picks (Suggs and Kispert). So they have talent. They have the 6th ranked player in the country coming in from Nebraska, 6-5 guard Hunter Sallis and the top ranked player in the country, 7-1 center Chet “Baby Porzingis” Holmgren, who is said to be on the way. He has not offically announced.
https://247sports.com/Article/Gonzaga-ba...163748759/

The Pac-12 is not an option and the MWC is not any better. Gonzaga can always play San Diego State and Utah State in nonconference if they are looking for quality MWC opponents.

It's not an overreaction to one loss. I've had the same thoughts for years. Gonzaga isn't consistently tested. Gonzaga has not gotten over the hump despite the high expectations for the last 15+ years. That list of non-conference opponents is great but most of those were before the conference schedule began. If it were possible, mix the conference and non-conference games throughout the season.

Regardless, my thought has not been a simple jump to the MWC but to also bring St. Mary's and (if possible) BYU.
04-06-2021 10:39 AM
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Wahoowa84 Offline
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Post: #72
RE: NCAA Final Thoughts Gonzaga vs Baylor
(04-06-2021 10:39 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(04-06-2021 10:33 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(04-06-2021 12:00 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  I just finished watching the game - I usually have to record games to watch later that night.

Terrific game by Baylor - well earned. They made us look midmajor. They had the tougher road to the championship and that consistent testing helps keep you strong and sharp:

Baylor: XII, Hartford, Wisconsin, Villanova, Arkansas, Houston - Champions
Gonzaga: WCC, Norfolk St, Oklahoma, Creighton, USC, UCLA - Runner-Up

You can’t (generally) pick your conference or NCAA tournament opponents but Gonzaga wasn’t tested through the season. That’s always been the knock on us and it showed tonight.

Being on a realignment board, I have two thoughts on Gonzaga’s conference affiliation: 1) the WCC is a great institutional fit but lacks weekly competition, 2) the MWC is a much more competitive conference but lacks the institutional fit.

My take is to wait until the XII mess is figured out in a few years. If the PAC loses top schools, then lobby to join the remaining PAC with St. Mary’s and BYU along with the cream of the MWC. If the PAC remains as-is, lobby to join the MWC with St. Mary’s.

An overreaction to one loss. Gonzaga had the 13th ranked Strength of Schedule. The Baylor Strength of Schedule was ranked 25th. Gonzaga ranked No. 1 in Net Ranking. They beat some good teams during the season and in the tournament:
Beat Kansas by 12
Beat Auburn by 23
Beat West Virginia by 5
Beat Iowa by 11
Beat Virginia by 23
Beat Oklahoma by 16
Beat Creighton by 18
Beat USC by 19
Beat UCLA by 3

They were 9-0 against the Power 6 of basketball going into the championship game. They have two certain NBA first round picks (Suggs and Kispert). So they have talent. They have the 6th ranked player in the country coming in from Nebraska, 6-5 guard Hunter Sallis and the top ranked player in the country, 7-1 center Chet “Baby Porzingis” Holmgren, who is said to be on the way. He has not offically announced.
https://247sports.com/Article/Gonzaga-ba...163748759/

The Pac-12 is not an option and the MWC is not any better. Gonzaga can always play San Diego State and Utah State in nonconference if they are looking for quality MWC opponents.

It's not an overreaction to one loss. I've had the same thoughts for years. Gonzaga isn't consistently tested. Gonzaga has not gotten over the hump despite the high expectations for the last 15+ years. That list of non-conference opponents is great but most of those were before the conference schedule began. If it were possible, mix the conference and non-conference games throughout the season.

Regardless, my thought has not been a simple jump to the MWC but to also bring St. Mary's and (if possible) BYU.

Dean Smith didn’t win a national championship until his seventh Final Four appearance. UNC didn’t need to change conferences to help strengthen the program. He just recruited better...Jordan, Worthy, Perkins, Black and Doherty helped tremendously.

Mike Krzyzewski didn’t win a national championship until his fifth Final Four appearance. He didn’t move Duke to a new conference, but he did master OOC scheduling.

Gonzaga and Mark Few are doing the right things. It was impressive how the Zags scheduled UVA this year...and absolutely crushed what I thought was a strong team. IMO, moving to the MWC or Big East would be bad long-term decisions. The WCC has gotten stronger over time...not just Gonzaga, but St Mary’s and BYU also have power basketball chops.
04-06-2021 11:04 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #73
RE: NCAA Final Thoughts Gonzaga vs Baylor
(04-06-2021 10:33 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(04-06-2021 12:00 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  I just finished watching the game - I usually have to record games to watch later that night.

Terrific game by Baylor - well earned. They made us look midmajor. They had the tougher road to the championship and that consistent testing helps keep you strong and sharp:

Baylor: XII, Hartford, Wisconsin, Villanova, Arkansas, Houston - Champions
Gonzaga: WCC, Norfolk St, Oklahoma, Creighton, USC, UCLA - Runner-Up

You can’t (generally) pick your conference or NCAA tournament opponents but Gonzaga wasn’t tested through the season. That’s always been the knock on us and it showed tonight.

Being on a realignment board, I have two thoughts on Gonzaga’s conference affiliation: 1) the WCC is a great institutional fit but lacks weekly competition, 2) the MWC is a much more competitive conference but lacks the institutional fit.

My take is to wait until the XII mess is figured out in a few years. If the PAC loses top schools, then lobby to join the remaining PAC with St. Mary’s and BYU along with the cream of the MWC. If the PAC remains as-is, lobby to join the MWC with St. Mary’s.

An overreaction to one loss. Gonzaga had the 13th ranked Strength of Schedule. The Baylor Strength of Schedule was ranked 25th. Gonzaga ranked No. 1 in Net Ranking. They beat some good teams during the season and in the tournament:
Beat Kansas by 12
Beat Auburn by 23
Beat West Virginia by 5
Beat Iowa by 11
Beat Virginia by 23
Beat Oklahoma by 16
Beat Creighton by 18
Beat USC by 19
Beat UCLA by 3

They were 9-0 against the Power 6 of basketball going into the championship game. They have two certain NBA first round picks (Suggs and Kispert). So they have talent. They have the 6th ranked player in the country coming in from Nebraska, 6-5 guard Hunter Sallis and the top ranked player in the country, 7-1 center Chet “Baby Porzingis” Holmgren, who is said to be on the way. He has not offically announced.
https://247sports.com/Article/Gonzaga-ba...163748759/

The Pac-12 is not an option and the MWC is not any better. Gonzaga can always play San Diego State and Utah State in nonconference if they are looking for quality MWC opponents. The WCC is the right conference for Gonzaga.

Auburn played them early and lost by 23 before 1 starter was cleared and while another one was out injured. Auburn also played Baylor, but at full strength and lost by 10 or 11 at Baylor. Discipline for Gonzaga and being down 2 players was why the zags won by 23. Baylor however was physically bigger and stronger and faster than this Auburn basketball team and very much like the Auburn team that lost to Virginia in the final four on a missed double dribble and a phantom foul on a 3 pt shot at the buzzer.

Baylor's guards handle the ball well as do their forwards. The big guys are imposing. This wasn't a mystery.
04-06-2021 11:15 AM
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SoCalBobcat78 Online
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Post: #74
RE: NCAA Final Thoughts Gonzaga vs Baylor
(04-06-2021 11:15 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-06-2021 10:33 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(04-06-2021 12:00 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  I just finished watching the game - I usually have to record games to watch later that night.

Terrific game by Baylor - well earned. They made us look midmajor. They had the tougher road to the championship and that consistent testing helps keep you strong and sharp:

Baylor: XII, Hartford, Wisconsin, Villanova, Arkansas, Houston - Champions
Gonzaga: WCC, Norfolk St, Oklahoma, Creighton, USC, UCLA - Runner-Up

You can’t (generally) pick your conference or NCAA tournament opponents but Gonzaga wasn’t tested through the season. That’s always been the knock on us and it showed tonight.

Being on a realignment board, I have two thoughts on Gonzaga’s conference affiliation: 1) the WCC is a great institutional fit but lacks weekly competition, 2) the MWC is a much more competitive conference but lacks the institutional fit.

My take is to wait until the XII mess is figured out in a few years. If the PAC loses top schools, then lobby to join the remaining PAC with St. Mary’s and BYU along with the cream of the MWC. If the PAC remains as-is, lobby to join the MWC with St. Mary’s.

An overreaction to one loss. Gonzaga had the 13th ranked Strength of Schedule. The Baylor Strength of Schedule was ranked 25th. Gonzaga ranked No. 1 in Net Ranking. They beat some good teams during the season and in the tournament:
Beat Kansas by 12
Beat Auburn by 23
Beat West Virginia by 5
Beat Iowa by 11
Beat Virginia by 23
Beat Oklahoma by 16
Beat Creighton by 18
Beat USC by 19
Beat UCLA by 3

They were 9-0 against the Power 6 of basketball going into the championship game. They have two certain NBA first round picks (Suggs and Kispert). So they have talent. They have the 6th ranked player in the country coming in from Nebraska, 6-5 guard Hunter Sallis and the top ranked player in the country, 7-1 center Chet “Baby Porzingis” Holmgren, who is said to be on the way. He has not offically announced.
https://247sports.com/Article/Gonzaga-ba...163748759/

The Pac-12 is not an option and the MWC is not any better. Gonzaga can always play San Diego State and Utah State in nonconference if they are looking for quality MWC opponents. The WCC is the right conference for Gonzaga.

Auburn played them early and lost by 23 before 1 starter was cleared and while another one was out injured. Auburn also played Baylor, but at full strength and lost by 10 or 11 at Baylor. Discipline for Gonzaga and being down 2 players was why the zags won by 23. Baylor however was physically bigger and stronger and faster than this Auburn basketball team and very much like the Auburn team that lost to Virginia in the final four on a missed double dribble and a phantom foul on a 3 pt shot at the buzzer.

Baylor's guards handle the ball well as do their forwards. The big guys are imposing. This wasn't a mystery.

Obviously, you are still bitter about the Auburn loss to Virginia. If New Mexico State hits their free throws at the end of their their game, Auburn does not make it to the round of 32. These games are that close.

Many times, the games come down to matchups and who is healthy and during this season of Covid-19, how much have you played or practiced. Kansas beat Baylor 71-58, outrebounding them 48-28 and holding them to 6 of 26 shooting on threes. Kansas ends up losing to USC by 34 in the tournament. Oklahoma State beats Baylor in the Big 12 tournament, holding them to 6 of 28 on threes. Then they lose to Oregon State in the tournament. Different games, different matchups.

Baylor was the top three point shooting team in the country and among the best offensive rebounding teams in the country. Gonzaga was considered a good defensive rebounding team. They knew what was coming at them and they couldn't stop it. Villanova was even on the boards with Baylor and shut down their three point shooting. Arkansas outrebounded Baylor. Gonzaga did not do either.
04-06-2021 12:04 PM
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Post: #75
RE: NCAA Final Thoughts Gonzaga vs Baylor
(04-06-2021 12:04 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(04-06-2021 11:15 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-06-2021 10:33 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(04-06-2021 12:00 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  I just finished watching the game - I usually have to record games to watch later that night.

Terrific game by Baylor - well earned. They made us look midmajor. They had the tougher road to the championship and that consistent testing helps keep you strong and sharp:

Baylor: XII, Hartford, Wisconsin, Villanova, Arkansas, Houston - Champions
Gonzaga: WCC, Norfolk St, Oklahoma, Creighton, USC, UCLA - Runner-Up

You can’t (generally) pick your conference or NCAA tournament opponents but Gonzaga wasn’t tested through the season. That’s always been the knock on us and it showed tonight.

Being on a realignment board, I have two thoughts on Gonzaga’s conference affiliation: 1) the WCC is a great institutional fit but lacks weekly competition, 2) the MWC is a much more competitive conference but lacks the institutional fit.

My take is to wait until the XII mess is figured out in a few years. If the PAC loses top schools, then lobby to join the remaining PAC with St. Mary’s and BYU along with the cream of the MWC. If the PAC remains as-is, lobby to join the MWC with St. Mary’s.

An overreaction to one loss. Gonzaga had the 13th ranked Strength of Schedule. The Baylor Strength of Schedule was ranked 25th. Gonzaga ranked No. 1 in Net Ranking. They beat some good teams during the season and in the tournament:
Beat Kansas by 12
Beat Auburn by 23
Beat West Virginia by 5
Beat Iowa by 11
Beat Virginia by 23
Beat Oklahoma by 16
Beat Creighton by 18
Beat USC by 19
Beat UCLA by 3

They were 9-0 against the Power 6 of basketball going into the championship game. They have two certain NBA first round picks (Suggs and Kispert). So they have talent. They have the 6th ranked player in the country coming in from Nebraska, 6-5 guard Hunter Sallis and the top ranked player in the country, 7-1 center Chet “Baby Porzingis” Holmgren, who is said to be on the way. He has not offically announced.
https://247sports.com/Article/Gonzaga-ba...163748759/

The Pac-12 is not an option and the MWC is not any better. Gonzaga can always play San Diego State and Utah State in nonconference if they are looking for quality MWC opponents. The WCC is the right conference for Gonzaga.

Auburn played them early and lost by 23 before 1 starter was cleared and while another one was out injured. Auburn also played Baylor, but at full strength and lost by 10 or 11 at Baylor. Discipline for Gonzaga and being down 2 players was why the zags won by 23. Baylor however was physically bigger and stronger and faster than this Auburn basketball team and very much like the Auburn team that lost to Virginia in the final four on a missed double dribble and a phantom foul on a 3 pt shot at the buzzer.

Baylor's guards handle the ball well as do their forwards. The big guys are imposing. This wasn't a mystery.

Obviously, you are still bitter about the Auburn loss to Virginia. If New Mexico State hits their free throws at the end of their their game, Auburn does not make it to the round of 32. These games are that close.

Many times, the games come down to matchups and who is healthy and during this season of Covid-19, how much have you played or practiced. Kansas beat Baylor 71-58, outrebounding them 48-28 and holding them to 6 of 26 shooting on threes. Kansas ends up losing to USC by 34 in the tournament. Oklahoma State beats Baylor in the Big 12 tournament, holding them to 6 of 28 on threes. Then they lose to Oregon State in the tournament. Different games, different matchups.

Baylor was the top three point shooting team in the country and among the best offensive rebounding teams in the country. Gonzaga was considered a good defensive rebounding team. They knew what was coming at them and they couldn't stop it. Villanova was even on the boards with Baylor and shut down their three point shooting. Arkansas outrebounded Baylor. Gonzaga did not do either.

The difference here is that players missed the free throws, officials missed the calls. And when it is the first time your school has ever gotten there to lose it on two official's calls one obviously missed and the other so minor it hardly ever called during the main course of the game, you damn right I was bitter about it, but for the kids. And the double dribble was a possession issue under 30 seconds to play.

But I've lived a long time and have been disappointed many times. The tournament is about match ups. Some styles of play when dictated by a team completely thwart the opponent's style of play. That wasn't the case with Baylor vs Gonzaga. Both liked to run. What thwarted Gonzaga was Baylor's size and speed and the fact that they had 3 players who could drain a 3 pointer.

When did Gonzaga catch up? When they slowed the pace. It's not their style, but they were better at slowing it down than Baylor was. That's the adjustment that needed to be made and it wasn't. The faster the game the more in rhythm the Baylor outside shooters were. Extend the zone and they missed a bit more often, but enough that with a patient approach to the basket Gonzaga picked up fouls and made a run at the free throw line. Had the Zags consistently slowed it down in the 2nd half the game would have been much closer and who knows if Baylor gets frustrated.

Gonzaga lost because Baylor was better at the transition game than they were and they were better better because they were stronger physically, bigger in size (not height per se) and faster. In combat if denied the lance your choice is the sword or mace both indicating close slow slugging. Gonzaga let Baylor keep the lance and gallop. They were slaughtered as a result.
04-06-2021 12:32 PM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #76
RE: NCAA Final Thoughts Gonzaga vs Baylor
(04-06-2021 12:32 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-06-2021 12:04 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(04-06-2021 11:15 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-06-2021 10:33 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(04-06-2021 12:00 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  I just finished watching the game - I usually have to record games to watch later that night.

Terrific game by Baylor - well earned. They made us look midmajor. They had the tougher road to the championship and that consistent testing helps keep you strong and sharp:

Baylor: XII, Hartford, Wisconsin, Villanova, Arkansas, Houston - Champions
Gonzaga: WCC, Norfolk St, Oklahoma, Creighton, USC, UCLA - Runner-Up

You can’t (generally) pick your conference or NCAA tournament opponents but Gonzaga wasn’t tested through the season. That’s always been the knock on us and it showed tonight.

Being on a realignment board, I have two thoughts on Gonzaga’s conference affiliation: 1) the WCC is a great institutional fit but lacks weekly competition, 2) the MWC is a much more competitive conference but lacks the institutional fit.

My take is to wait until the XII mess is figured out in a few years. If the PAC loses top schools, then lobby to join the remaining PAC with St. Mary’s and BYU along with the cream of the MWC. If the PAC remains as-is, lobby to join the MWC with St. Mary’s.

An overreaction to one loss. Gonzaga had the 13th ranked Strength of Schedule. The Baylor Strength of Schedule was ranked 25th. Gonzaga ranked No. 1 in Net Ranking. They beat some good teams during the season and in the tournament:
Beat Kansas by 12
Beat Auburn by 23
Beat West Virginia by 5
Beat Iowa by 11
Beat Virginia by 23
Beat Oklahoma by 16
Beat Creighton by 18
Beat USC by 19
Beat UCLA by 3

They were 9-0 against the Power 6 of basketball going into the championship game. They have two certain NBA first round picks (Suggs and Kispert). So they have talent. They have the 6th ranked player in the country coming in from Nebraska, 6-5 guard Hunter Sallis and the top ranked player in the country, 7-1 center Chet “Baby Porzingis” Holmgren, who is said to be on the way. He has not offically announced.
https://247sports.com/Article/Gonzaga-ba...163748759/

The Pac-12 is not an option and the MWC is not any better. Gonzaga can always play San Diego State and Utah State in nonconference if they are looking for quality MWC opponents. The WCC is the right conference for Gonzaga.

Auburn played them early and lost by 23 before 1 starter was cleared and while another one was out injured. Auburn also played Baylor, but at full strength and lost by 10 or 11 at Baylor. Discipline for Gonzaga and being down 2 players was why the zags won by 23. Baylor however was physically bigger and stronger and faster than this Auburn basketball team and very much like the Auburn team that lost to Virginia in the final four on a missed double dribble and a phantom foul on a 3 pt shot at the buzzer.

Baylor's guards handle the ball well as do their forwards. The big guys are imposing. This wasn't a mystery.

Obviously, you are still bitter about the Auburn loss to Virginia. If New Mexico State hits their free throws at the end of their their game, Auburn does not make it to the round of 32. These games are that close.

Many times, the games come down to matchups and who is healthy and during this season of Covid-19, how much have you played or practiced. Kansas beat Baylor 71-58, outrebounding them 48-28 and holding them to 6 of 26 shooting on threes. Kansas ends up losing to USC by 34 in the tournament. Oklahoma State beats Baylor in the Big 12 tournament, holding them to 6 of 28 on threes. Then they lose to Oregon State in the tournament. Different games, different matchups.

Baylor was the top three point shooting team in the country and among the best offensive rebounding teams in the country. Gonzaga was considered a good defensive rebounding team. They knew what was coming at them and they couldn't stop it. Villanova was even on the boards with Baylor and shut down their three point shooting. Arkansas outrebounded Baylor. Gonzaga did not do either.

The difference here is that players missed the free throws, officials missed the calls. And when it is the first time your school has ever gotten there to lose it on two official's calls one obviously missed and the other so minor it hardly ever called during the main course of the game, you damn right I was bitter about it, but for the kids. And the double dribble was a possession issue under 30 seconds to play.

But I've lived a long time and have been disappointed many times. The tournament is about match ups. Some styles of play when dictated by a team completely thwart the opponent's style of play. That wasn't the case with Baylor vs Gonzaga. Both liked to run. What thwarted Gonzaga was Baylor's size and speed and the fact that they had 3 players who could drain a 3 pointer.

When did Gonzaga catch up? When they slowed the pace. It's not their style, but they were better at slowing it down than Baylor was. That's the adjustment that needed to be made and it wasn't. The faster the game the more in rhythm the Baylor outside shooters were. Extend the zone and they missed a bit more often, but enough that with a patient approach to the basket Gonzaga picked up fouls and made a run at the free throw line. Had the Zags consistently slowed it down in the 2nd half the game would have been much closer and who knows if Baylor gets frustrated.

Gonzaga lost because Baylor was better at the transition game than they were and they were better better because they were stronger physically, bigger in size (not height per se) and faster. In combat if denied the lance your choice is the sword or mace both indicating close slow slugging. Gonzaga let Baylor keep the lance and gallop. They were slaughtered as a result.


This is joyous:

In combat if denied the lance your choice is the sword or mace both indicating close slow slugging. Gonzaga let Baylor keep the lance and gallop. They were slaughtered as a result.
04-06-2021 12:56 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Online
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Post: #77
RE: NCAA Final Thoughts Gonzaga vs Baylor
(04-06-2021 12:32 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-06-2021 12:04 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(04-06-2021 11:15 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-06-2021 10:33 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(04-06-2021 12:00 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  I just finished watching the game - I usually have to record games to watch later that night.

Terrific game by Baylor - well earned. They made us look midmajor. They had the tougher road to the championship and that consistent testing helps keep you strong and sharp:

Baylor: XII, Hartford, Wisconsin, Villanova, Arkansas, Houston - Champions
Gonzaga: WCC, Norfolk St, Oklahoma, Creighton, USC, UCLA - Runner-Up

You can’t (generally) pick your conference or NCAA tournament opponents but Gonzaga wasn’t tested through the season. That’s always been the knock on us and it showed tonight.

Being on a realignment board, I have two thoughts on Gonzaga’s conference affiliation: 1) the WCC is a great institutional fit but lacks weekly competition, 2) the MWC is a much more competitive conference but lacks the institutional fit.

My take is to wait until the XII mess is figured out in a few years. If the PAC loses top schools, then lobby to join the remaining PAC with St. Mary’s and BYU along with the cream of the MWC. If the PAC remains as-is, lobby to join the MWC with St. Mary’s.

An overreaction to one loss. Gonzaga had the 13th ranked Strength of Schedule. The Baylor Strength of Schedule was ranked 25th. Gonzaga ranked No. 1 in Net Ranking. They beat some good teams during the season and in the tournament:
Beat Kansas by 12
Beat Auburn by 23
Beat West Virginia by 5
Beat Iowa by 11
Beat Virginia by 23
Beat Oklahoma by 16
Beat Creighton by 18
Beat USC by 19
Beat UCLA by 3

They were 9-0 against the Power 6 of basketball going into the championship game. They have two certain NBA first round picks (Suggs and Kispert). So they have talent. They have the 6th ranked player in the country coming in from Nebraska, 6-5 guard Hunter Sallis and the top ranked player in the country, 7-1 center Chet “Baby Porzingis” Holmgren, who is said to be on the way. He has not offically announced.
https://247sports.com/Article/Gonzaga-ba...163748759/

The Pac-12 is not an option and the MWC is not any better. Gonzaga can always play San Diego State and Utah State in nonconference if they are looking for quality MWC opponents. The WCC is the right conference for Gonzaga.

Auburn played them early and lost by 23 before 1 starter was cleared and while another one was out injured. Auburn also played Baylor, but at full strength and lost by 10 or 11 at Baylor. Discipline for Gonzaga and being down 2 players was why the zags won by 23. Baylor however was physically bigger and stronger and faster than this Auburn basketball team and very much like the Auburn team that lost to Virginia in the final four on a missed double dribble and a phantom foul on a 3 pt shot at the buzzer.

Baylor's guards handle the ball well as do their forwards. The big guys are imposing. This wasn't a mystery.

Obviously, you are still bitter about the Auburn loss to Virginia. If New Mexico State hits their free throws at the end of their their game, Auburn does not make it to the round of 32. These games are that close.

Many times, the games come down to matchups and who is healthy and during this season of Covid-19, how much have you played or practiced. Kansas beat Baylor 71-58, outrebounding them 48-28 and holding them to 6 of 26 shooting on threes. Kansas ends up losing to USC by 34 in the tournament. Oklahoma State beats Baylor in the Big 12 tournament, holding them to 6 of 28 on threes. Then they lose to Oregon State in the tournament. Different games, different matchups.

Baylor was the top three point shooting team in the country and among the best offensive rebounding teams in the country. Gonzaga was considered a good defensive rebounding team. They knew what was coming at them and they couldn't stop it. Villanova was even on the boards with Baylor and shut down their three point shooting. Arkansas outrebounded Baylor. Gonzaga did not do either.

The difference here is that players missed the free throws, officials missed the calls. And when it is the first time your school has ever gotten there to lose it on two official's calls one obviously missed and the other so minor it hardly ever called during the main course of the game, you damn right I was bitter about it, but for the kids. And the double dribble was a possession issue under 30 seconds to play.

But I've lived a long time and have been disappointed many times. The tournament is about match ups. Some styles of play when dictated by a team completely thwart the opponent's style of play. That wasn't the case with Baylor vs Gonzaga. Both liked to run. What thwarted Gonzaga was Baylor's size and speed and the fact that they had 3 players who could drain a 3 pointer.

When did Gonzaga catch up? When they slowed the pace. It's not their style, but they were better at slowing it down than Baylor was. That's the adjustment that needed to be made and it wasn't. The faster the game the more in rhythm the Baylor outside shooters were. Extend the zone and they missed a bit more often, but enough that with a patient approach to the basket Gonzaga picked up fouls and made a run at the free throw line. Had the Zags consistently slowed it down in the 2nd half the game would have been much closer and who knows if Baylor gets frustrated.

Gonzaga lost because Baylor was better at the transition game than they were and they were better better because they were stronger physically, bigger in size (not height per se) and faster. In combat if denied the lance your choice is the sword or mace both indicating close slow slugging. Gonzaga let Baylor keep the lance and gallop. They were slaughtered as a result.

Good points. Gonzaga needed to slow the pace of the game down and go to a zone. In the 1984 NBA Finals, the Celtics and the Lakers met. Both teams liked to run, but the Lakers may have been the greatest running team ever. They had to slow the pace and make it a half court physical game to have a chance to beat them, which the Celtics ended up doing in seven games. UCLA had success in the tournament slowing the pace, milking the clock in their half court offense and playing a physical matchup zone defense. Baylor manhandled Gonzaga early in the game and once they got up 29-10, it was over.
04-06-2021 01:11 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #78
RE: NCAA Final Thoughts Gonzaga vs Baylor
Ayayi didn’t show up, Kispert didn’t have a great game. Gonzaga came out flat and Baylor never allowed them to get back in it all the way. Baylor was poised and thwarted any runs, a true sign of a veteran team.

Few looked terrified in the first half. Like he knew they were toast. There was just nothing that he threw at Baylor that was going to make a difference. I was pleased Timme didn’t get a chance to act cocky and do his stupid mustache thing. Finally somebody stepped in and showed him what’s up.

I don’t think Gonzaga’s conference holds them back. I just don’t think it gives anyone a good idea of where they are vs. power teams later in the season. I’ve said this before, they can beat anybody in November and December, but come conference season many a team improve.

The only team that I think should have gone undefeated in my lifetime was UNLV. They were smoking teams left and right and their conference made absolutely no difference.

The fantasy team of Rasheed Wallace, Antawn Jamison, Jerry Stackhouse, Vince Carter, and Jeff McGinnis—coached by Dean Smith—probably wouldn’t have lost.
04-06-2021 02:00 PM
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