Sam Houston State
SFAU
Lamar
New Mexico State

All could hold more than 15,000 capacity.
Abilene Christian
Dixie State
West Texas A&M
UTRGV
Central Oklahoma
Tarleton State

All of these schools have plans to build or expand to 15,000 seats.

North Dakota State
South Dakota State
Missouri State
Northern Iowa
All could be football only members.

UCA, Jacksonville State, Kennesaw State, Eastern Kentucky and North Alabama could be football affiliates as well until ASun could attract more members for an ASUN FBS conference.

(04-03-2021 05:40 PM)Todor Wrote:  Well, you don't establish stability by adding schools. That's the opposite of stability. 7 schools joined/joining in just a couple years plus another one likely is highly fluid.

If by Olympic sports, you mean basketball, what I see is the 14 potential members competing for 1 tourney bid instead of about 8, without being anywhere near a 2 bid league. Bad kind of stability. Same money, a lot more pigs at the trough...

And if FCS is at least temporarily in the picture, that won't pay many bills.

FWIW, Dixie and Tarleton won't be playoff eligible until 2024-25.

After the 2012-2013 season, the WAC lost seven member schools. They had just dropped football as a sport. They were desperate to survive and added six D1 Olympic sports schools, three from the Great West Conference, UMKC from the Summit, one independent and the other a D2 for-profit school. Basically, they were accepting D1 schools with a heartbeat. After the current 2020-2021 season, they will add five football schools/all-sports schools and lose no all-sports members. They will have 14 basketball schools, 13 baseball schools and 12 men's soccer teams. I will take that stability any day. By the way, which school is "highly fluid?'

Of the 14 basketball schools in the conference in 2021, five have been ranked in the top 100 of Net Rankings in the past three years (NMSU, SFA, ACU, UVU, GCU). Southern Utah won the Big Sky regular season title in basketball. CBU has played well and they will really take off once the D1 in-transition shackles are off and they can actually go to the NCAA Tournament. Plus, this is the last season in the WAC for Chicago State. Chicago State was last in Net Ranking in 2018-2019 and 2019-2020. Getting them out will make the WAC stronger. So I think the basketball side of the conference will be much stronger in the future and this will be a conference that can get more than one bid. I think the same will happen in baseball as well. The WAC is already a two bid league in men's soccer.

I think adding football was a good move by the WAC. What else would you have them do? FCS football will not make anyone rich, but it obviously makes the WAC a more stable league. We will see where it goes from there.

(04-04-2021 04:21 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Sam Houston State
SFAU
Lamar
New Mexico State

All could hold more than 15,000 capacity.
Abilene Christian
Dixie State
West Texas A&M
UTRGV
Central Oklahoma
Tarleton State

All of these schools have plans to build or expand to 15,000 seats.

North Dakota State
South Dakota State
Missouri State
Northern Iowa
All could be football only members.

UCA, Jacksonville State, Kennesaw State, Eastern Kentucky and North Alabama could be football affiliates as well until ASun could attract more members for an ASUN FBS conference.

DavidSt - Your post gives me hope that the WAC can return to FBS status especially if WAC members, Abilene Christian, Dixie State, UTRGV and Tarleton State, and WAC prospects, West Texas A&M, and Central Oklahoma follow up on their plans to expand their stadiums. Also the prospect of football only and affiliate members is intriguing.

(04-04-2021 07:24 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  

(04-04-2021 04:21 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Sam Houston State
SFAU
Lamar
New Mexico State

All could hold more than 15,000 capacity.
Abilene Christian
Dixie State
West Texas A&M
UTRGV
Central Oklahoma
Tarleton State

All of these schools have plans to build or expand to 15,000 seats.

North Dakota State
South Dakota State
Missouri State
Northern Iowa
All could be football only members.

UCA, Jacksonville State, Kennesaw State, Eastern Kentucky and North Alabama could be football affiliates as well until ASun could attract more members for an ASUN FBS conference.

DavidSt - Your post gives me hope that the WAC can return to FBS status especially if WAC members, Abilene Christian, Dixie State, UTRGV and Tarleton State, and WAC prospects, West Texas A&M, and Central Oklahoma follow up on their plans to expand their stadiums. Also the prospect of football only and affiliate members is intriguing.

Just curious but why do you think these programs belong in FBS? The only FBS level stadium is Lamars and they'd have to expand a little bit too. The rest are far off even though ACUs and WTAMUs are very nice. Also UTRGV has to, you know, get a football team, that's not exactly set in stone.

(04-04-2021 04:21 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Sam Houston State
SFAU
Lamar
New Mexico State

All could hold more than 15,000 capacity.
Abilene Christian
Dixie State
West Texas A&M
UTRGV
Central Oklahoma
Tarleton State

All of these schools have plans to build or expand to 15,000 seats.

North Dakota State
South Dakota State
Missouri State
Northern Iowa
All could be football only members.

UCA, Jacksonville State, Kennesaw State, Eastern Kentucky and North Alabama could be football affiliates as well until ASun could attract more members for an ASUN FBS conference.

More fantasy D2 call-up nonsense. Central Oklahoma could have a 50,000 seat football stadium but they will never get to D1 without adding a men's sport. And before you waste more time to list all the sports they COULD add; UCO COULD do a lot of things but nothing will ever happen until they take ACTION.

(04-04-2021 08:21 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  Just curious but why do you think these programs belong in FBS? The only FBS level stadium is Lamars and they'd have to expand a little bit too. The rest are far off even though ACUs and WTAMUs are very nice. Also UTRGV has to, you know, get a football team, that's not exactly set in stone.

WT would have to build another stadium for FBS level. Their new stadium is expandable to just 14,000. They've played only 1+ seasons in the new stadium so I don't see them wanting to build another any time soon.

I'm sure glad that you CUSA and SBC guys don't get to decide who is FBS and who isn't. Let's let the individual schools and conferences and the NCAA make that decision.

(04-05-2021 08:54 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  I'm sure glad that you CUSA and SBC guys don't get to decide who is FBS and who isn't. Let's let the individual schools and conferences and the NCAA make that decision.

Hate gatekeepers. App got dissed a lot by many fans of G5 schools. If a school wants to fund FBS football then let them.

If another league goes FBS they will battle CUSA, MAC and SBC for the one behind the American. Who knows who would be there and probably change every year.

WAC football would have to overtake MAC, CUSA, and MWC before it sniffs SBC in the pecking order.

(04-05-2021 10:23 AM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  

(04-05-2021 08:54 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  I'm sure glad that you CUSA and SBC guys don't get to decide who is FBS and who isn't. Let's let the individual schools and conferences and the NCAA make that decision.

Hate gatekeepers. App got dissed a lot by many fans of G5 schools. If a school wants to fund FBS football then let them.

If it were only about who gets to call themselves FBS, it wouldn't be an issue. But it's also about how the money is distributed.

I'm sure Disney is just pounding down the door for that West Texas A&M vs Dixie State football game for its Saturday night prime time game......

(04-05-2021 12:42 PM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  If another league goes FBS they will battle CUSA, MAC and SBC for the one behind the American. Who knows who would be there and probably change every year.

Except that there's a zero percent chance the new league would get any funds from the College Football Playoff. None. The P5 will refuse to increase the G5's share of the pie. If anything, it will probably decrease next time around because the eyeballs show up for Alabama vs. Clemson or Ohio State vs. Oklahoma, not Troy vs. Central Michigan.

And none of the G5 are going to willingly give any shares of their money to a new G5 league. Be it the WAC, the new A-Sun, whoever it is will be starting out with its hands tied behind its back and a blindfold on its face, financially.

To summarize in a picture, here's my prediction for what happens after the next ESPN/CFP contract:

ESPN $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ -> College Football Playoff
CFP $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ -> P5
CFP $ -> One G5 playoff participant's conference
CFP $ -> Entire rest of the G5

The G5 is not going to share their table scraps with some new conference of schools that can barely meet the bottom of the barrel FBS requirements.

The average FCS programs runs an $8m budget deficit. The average G5 program runs a $16m deficit (before Covid-19).

The schools in the WAC are all in the lower half of FCS budgets. They would have to basically triple their athletic budgets, not to mention raise huge amounts of money to upgrade stadiums and facilities to FBS standards.

The budget trends suggest it's far more likely New Mexico State drops down to FCS level. Full time undergraduate enrollment has now been below 10,000 students for four years running, and their athletic budget more in line with many FCS programs than FBS. They have slid from the middle of G5 football and athletic budget to one of the lowest 15 in the last few years. The school itself is working through a very difficult budget situation with shrinking resources and fewer students. For all of Moccia's brave talk about an FBS conference for NMSU football, the reality is that opportunity is rapidly sinking from view. It's more a question of how many more years can they hang on.

(04-05-2021 08:54 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  I'm sure glad that you CUSA and SBC guys don't get to decide who is FBS and who isn't. Let's let the individual schools and conferences and the NCAA make that decision.

I'm not in favor of targeting specific schools to exclude from the FBS, but I do feel there should be a higher threshold for qualifying for the FBS division. There are too many programs in the FBS already. A higher standard would force some of the pretenders to invest and get better or give up on their delusion.

Should more FCS programs continue to move up, the P5 conferences will probably break away completely. If that should happen occurs, the P6 campaign will not save the AAC. I think P5 would rather knock out another major conference and become the P4, not expand to include the AAC.

The WAC is set to play FCS football this fall (2021). If the WAC was able to lure someone like Weber State or Northern Arizona or Idaho as number 14, and they upgraded their stadiums to at least 15,000 over the next several years, and offered the minimum number of scholarships and sponsored sports, they could potentially go FBS by the year 2030.

(04-10-2021 09:58 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  The WAC is set to play FCS football this fall (2021). If the WAC was able to lure someone like Weber State or Northern Arizona or Idaho as number 14, and they upgraded their stadiums to at least 15,000 over the next several years, and offered the minimum number of scholarships and sponsored sports, they could potentially go FBS by the year 2030.

1. Why would Idaho want to be such a massive outlier?

2. Why would they go through the ordeal of dropping down, only to go back up? If you thought they were bad when they were FBS well they'll be even worse after the drop down debacle.

(04-10-2021 10:35 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(04-10-2021 09:58 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  The WAC is set to play FCS football this fall (2021). If the WAC was able to lure someone like Weber State or Northern Arizona or Idaho as number 14, and they upgraded their stadiums to at least 15,000 over the next several years, and offered the minimum number of scholarships and sponsored sports, they could potentially go FBS by the year 2030.

1. Why would Idaho want to be such a massive outlier?

2. Why would they go through the ordeal of dropping down, only to go back up? If you thought they were bad when they were FBS well they'll be even worse after the drop down debacle.

They're already worse. Not even looking at the team's strength, (they're 11-16 since the move), the team's attendance average even less at FCS playing schools like Montana, Montana State, PSU, Idaho St. etc. The opposite of what they thought would happen.

(04-10-2021 11:58 AM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  

(04-10-2021 10:35 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(04-10-2021 09:58 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  The WAC is set to play FCS football this fall (2021). If the WAC was able to lure someone like Weber State or Northern Arizona or Idaho as number 14, and they upgraded their stadiums to at least 15,000 over the next several years, and offered the minimum number of scholarships and sponsored sports, they could potentially go FBS by the year 2030.

1. Why would Idaho want to be such a massive outlier?

2. Why would they go through the ordeal of dropping down, only to go back up? If you thought they were bad when they were FBS well they'll be even worse after the drop down debacle.

They're already worse. Not even looking at the team's strength, (they're 11-16 since the move), the team's attendance average even less at FCS playing schools like Montana, Montana State, PSU, Idaho St. etc. The opposite of what they thought would happen.

Honestly I think idaho is good where it is. I think Weber state, North Arizona or even Northern Colorado are better and easier options for both the Big Sky and the WAC to get or lose. It's like how I think the WAC may want to get rid of non football schools eventually. I think the WAC would be happy if the Big Sky takes Seattle to fill a Cal Poly or UC Davis Olympic spot in the Big Sky.

(04-10-2021 11:58 AM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  

(04-10-2021 10:35 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(04-10-2021 09:58 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  The WAC is set to play FCS football this fall (2021). If the WAC was able to lure someone like Weber State or Northern Arizona or Idaho as number 14, and they upgraded their stadiums to at least 15,000 over the next several years, and offered the minimum number of scholarships and sponsored sports, they could potentially go FBS by the year 2030.

1. Why would Idaho want to be such a massive outlier?

2. Why would they go through the ordeal of dropping down, only to go back up? If you thought they were bad when they were FBS well they'll be even worse after the drop down debacle.

They're already worse. Not even looking at the team's strength, (they're 11-16 since the move), the team's attendance average even less at FCS playing schools like Montana, Montana State, PSU, Idaho St. etc. The opposite of what they thought would happen.

I agree. What I meant that their first go around at FBS was terrible, if they were to try again it would be even worse.

I feel bad for that one fan that used to frequent the Sun Belt board. He knew it would be a disaster. The powers that be thought playing relatively local schools in the FCS would increase attendance, donations, etc. but it made everything fall off a cliff. Hopefully NMSU sees Idaho as a cautionary tale.

Idaho is probably not a good choice. They are almost as far out of the WAC footprint as Seattle, and I don't think Seattle will leave the WAC because there is probably no where for them to go. It would be better for the WAC to lure someone like UTEP, UTSA or UNT, but I doubt if that would ever happen. They may be stuck with Incarnate Word or West Texas A&M, or someone else from Texas. They need someone who desires to go FBS and has the resources to do so.